Dec 2, 2012; Kansas City, MO, USA; A Kansas City Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel on the sidelines against the Carolina Panthers in the second half at Arrowhead Stadium. Kansas City won the game 27-21. Mandatory Credit: John Rieger-USA TODAY Sports

The NFL at a Crossroads


As trying a week as it was for the Chiefs’ coaches, players and fans, it’s nothing compared to what the families of Kasandra Perkins and Jovan Belcher are going through, and worst of all, it’s nothing compared to the impact on baby Zoey, whose life has been altered tragically and forever. Belcher’s inexplicable and horrible act has set in motion a series of tidal waves that will change the course of families, friends, players, coaches and perhaps even this Chiefs franchise and the NFL.

This NFL season has been different to me, not because of how the Chiefs are doing, but because serious issues have dominated football news that aren’t about wins and losses or touchdowns and interceptions. This whole year has been marked by two health-related issues – the mental illness that numerous retired players now face, made stark by the suicide of Junior Seau, and perhaps related, the game-changing focus on concussions.

The murder of Perkins and orphaning of an infant by a football player is perhaps the third chapter in the book of the 2012 NFL season, and this book may change football forever. This book is about the culture of violence in America and in the sport today.

As fans, I know firsthand that the quickest way to stop a party is to talk about what’s wrong with the sport. To talk about concussions, mental illness, violence, domestic violence and guns is guaranteed to create uncomfortable silences, make enemies and turn ordinary human beings into soapbox pundits. So if you want to stop reading now, I won’t blame you.

But this year is the first I can remember in my forty years of being a diehard Chiefs fan that, in my quieter moments, has me questioning the game itself. Chapter one in this book was written when I read about Junior Seau this summer. I had what psychologists call cognitive dissonance – a feeling of discomfort that’s hard to pin down, when two conflicting feelings are in your brain at the same time. That cognitive dissonance is because we love football. We wouldn’t devote the hundreds of hours of time, mental energy and passion to our Chiefs if we didn’t. But I also have a little voice in my head saying, “the very thing I get enjoyment out of – the big hits, the on-the-field violence – may well be causing some serious, long-term issues for those providing that enjoyment to me.”

To be brutally honest, most times, I just turn that voice off whenever it rears its head. But this year, that voice keeps sounding off, a little bit louder each time. And while I didn’t appreciate Eric Winston’s infamous comments about Booing-gate, what stayed in my memory was when he said, “We are not gladiators and this is not the Roman Colosseum.”

Chapter two of this book is about concussions. Now, I really really dislike Roger Goodell, but if I am honest with myself, I have to give him props for the NFL’s aggressive effort this year to prevent and monitor concussions. I know you’ve seen what I’ve seen – more penalties and a more rigorous procedure for players who have a concussion before they can get back on the field. We’ve also seen fans, players and pundits saying Goodell is just protecting the owners from lawsuits, that Goodell has gone too far and that he’s a hypocrite because he also wants to create an 18-game season. All of those things probably have a bit of truth to them. But if you blow away the fog, the fact remains: attempting to reduce concussions in this already violent game is a good thing, and it’s better to err on the side of aggressive action on this issue because the task at hand is extraordinary. We’re not talking about creating easy tweaks to the game, like instant replay and new pass interference rules. We’re talking about the culture of the game, which is more dominant than any other single characteristic in defining how the game is played, and what is left of the players when this is all over.

The Perkins murder has added the third chapter to this book on the culture of violence, and this chapter is about guns. As happens often when high profile murders take place, a strident debate has already broken out about guns. All of us have heard the arguments on both sides of this gun issue so much we probably know them by heart, so let’s not re-hash them all here. I see it a lot like the concussion debate: there’s a lot of fog and a lot of agendas that have nothing to do with player safety. To me, it’s pretty simple and not very political: there are too many guns in America and when you add lots of guns to an already violent culture, more bad things happen.

This book that is being written about the 2012 NFL season is about saying out loud that the NFL has some serious, serious issues that threaten the future of this multi-billion dollar industry, and these issues are all related to the culture of violence that seems to be increasing in America and on the field.

Baby Zoey – the smallest in stature but the biggest victim here – is going to need all the help she can get and more, to one day comprehend what happened on December 1, 2012 and to learn, grow and, we all hope, succeed in her life in unimaginable and wonderful ways. Perhaps she will learn what we hope is true – that humans can be incredibly resilient, loving and generous, and even in ways that can overcome the heinous acts we are also capable of committing. Perhaps we will all think a new thought we haven’t had before about mental illness, concussions, violence, domestic violence and guns and the role we each may play in this culture of violence. There aren’t any right answers here at all, except that we must learn something new from this experience, or we will have failed as human beings to have empathy, to learn and to progress.

This Sunday, our Chiefs will play the Browns. This week is the toughest week for the Chiefs – funerals, time alone trying to make sense of what happened, and all the while, keeping their heads down and doing the work of playing football. The Chiefs will find a way to get through it, and as fans, we will support them, wonder how they are doing and go on with our own lives and jobs. And we will keep Zoey in our thoughts and prayers, with hope that she will succeed against the odds, growing up in this culture of violence that seems to be escalating, not diminishing.

Tags: Featured Kansas City Chiefs Popular

  • Dfrey87

    Ur an idiot if he or anybody has it in there mind to kill someone there gonna do it with whatever they have around if he didnt have a gun he would have used a knife or what ever insert what u want if there gonna commit violence there gonna do it gun be dammed. (The rest of this comment has been moderated)

  • thecomfychair

    You’re (ur) response to an article about the culture of violence is to say this guy needs the sh** beat out of him?

    That’s funny to me.

    • Dfrey87

      Ok this is how much sense it makes. Lets take away peoples cars because they are they cause of drunk driving. Do we not live in a society where alcohol is glorified? 90% of people have one time or another in there lives drove drunk or buzzed or right on that limit u all know it. How many people are killed each year from drunk drivers? I bet its comparable to the number of people that die of gun shots. I can bet no one on here is willing to give up there car though are they?

      • Dfrey87

        If u wanna talk about the culture of violence and how guns are the cause the so are knives, baseball bats, lamps, cars, ect. So if we use ur logic we should ban anything that can be used as a weapon including ur self ur ignorance is maddening.

        • thecomfychair

          the more you type the more convinced i am that at least you shouldn’t have access to fire arms.

          • Dfrey87

            U dont even know me. So because im passionate about a topic i shouldn’t own a gun really? Where is ur logic? Because i said someone should have the shit beat out of them for trying to spread ignorance to hundreds of readers? U have never said that about anyone?

          • thecomfychair

            consider that jab retaliation for you calling me ignorant.

            as for for the actual topic at hand, it’s equal parts entertaining and horrifying that you don’t see the irony in threatening violence in the same breathe you demand to keep your guns.

          • Dfrey87

            Now ur insulting my intelligence cuz of course i see the irony and maybe it was a poor way to get my point across but what i said is not the issue

      • thecomfychair

        right, i actually agree with you…

        but still, you’re response to an article about the culture of violence is to say this guy needs the sh** beat out of him?

        you don’t see that as counter productive?

  • http://www.arrowheadaddict.com Patrick Allen

    I want to do a quick poll. How many of you think Iran should be allowed to buy nuclear weapons?

    • Dfrey87

      Thats like asking if terrorist should have nukes is it not?

      • thecomfychair

        i think you got about half of his point there.

        • Dfrey87

          Nope got the whole point it just an obvious answer. Do u give c4 to the arian brotherhood or the bloods?

          • http://www.arrowheadaddict.com Patrick Allen

            But C4 doesn’t kill people. People kill people. Bombs don’t drop themselves on people. People drop them on people.

            And before you say that the people I am talking about are known murderers, well guess what, Belcher is now a known murder and he was able to obtain a gun.

            I don’t feel strongly one way or another about guns. I’ve never had one, never even held one. Have no desire to. But I can see why some people want more stringent gun laws.

            The whole “guns don’t kill people” argument is a dumbing down of a much more complicated issue. People will say that they don’t want terrorists or rogue countries to obtain dangerous weapons. They may say they also don’t want convicted felons to be able to purchase guns. But they will also say that regular people with no history of crime or violence should be able to go out and buy assault weapons. Well, among those people are people like Belcher who are dangerous, only nobody knows it yet. That, to me, is pretty scary.

            It is a complicated issue but I think to call anyone who thinks adding guns to a violent situation, like Miles suggests, could cause to only exacerbate the problem, and idiot or to dismiss their concerns out of hand, is short-sighted.

            And I think the whole “guns don’t kill people” argument is short-sighted as well.

          • calciomoti

            Patrick, and everyone else here, the great thing about America is that we all have the right form our own opinions, values, etc, regardless of popular opinion. The bad thing about that is simply it cause debate, which leads to anger, etc.

            What Jovan Belcher did is/was inexcusable and he knew it, he couldn’t handle the consequences of his actions, so he took his own life.

            Each point is simple, the actions were his choice, no one, ore no things choice but that of Jovan. At any point in his life, do any of you think that Jovan thought he would murder the love of his life? What about his mother, or Kassandra? All of Jovan’s guns would registered, which says that if he took a life, he hoped it would be in self defense…obviously he was wrong about himself.

            Patrick, that saying is not short sighted, because of this; guns should be used in self defense only, if you have a gun, the ONLY REASON you would ever pull it out is to actually use it to defend your/loved ones life.

            Obviously I own guns, I shot them/clean them regularly, I have taught my children the same values that have been passed down my famiy about guns since before this country was a country. I respect your opinion about guns, but I diagree, respectfully…I would truly hope that if you would meet myself or anyone in my family (women included) that you would change your mind about them.

            I am appalled by the chicken shit cop out Jovan took, and I truly offer my sympathies to everyone who was hurt by Jovan’s actions…I pray for them daily.

          • http://www.arrowheadaddict.com Patrick Allen

            Thanks for the comment Joshua. Like I was saying, I am not really against people having guns but I do have concerns about weapons that can so easily kill large amounts of people. I’m concerned not for the people like yourself, who respect the power of the weapon and want it for protection. I worry about people like Jovan or the guy who shot up the theater in Colorado, who are clearly ill or unstable.

          • http://www.arrowheadaddict.com Patrick Allen

            Also, not saying I know what the answer is but I think too often the issue gets painted black and white. People on one side are saying “no guns” and those on the other are saying “assault rifles for everyone.”

          • steve james

            You would have better luck and influence talking to people about gun control if you didn’t use the obvious terms of misinformation that the anti gun Lobby uses all the time. Your average citizen will never come into contact with an assault rifle unless they are in the military. Hunting rifles and side arms for self defense and concealed carry are far far from assault rifles.

          • KCMikeG

            The greatest engine of misinformation in the US is the NRA. If your average citizen will never come into contact with an assault rifle. Really? Then who the hell is buying them all? And from Russia our old enemy.

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2188727/Americans-buy-AK47s-Russian-military-assault-rifle-surges-popularity.html

          • calciomoti

            I have the same concerns myself Patrick! The problem is that most people who have issues, don’t know it until it’s too late i.e. Jovan Belcher. Like I stated earlier, and I’m willing to bet on this, Jovan himself had no idea that he would ever commit such an horrendous act!

            I too have no idea what the answer is, but as an American, gun-owning citizen, I can tell you that I will never give up my 2nd amendment rights, however, I am not of the opinion that everyone should have a gun…especially an AR, or a criminal, and definitely not a mentally unstable person. Not really sorry if that offends anyone.

            stevejames is also correct, the majority of people you would/could come into contact that would own a gun, would not own an AR. It would be more along the lines of a hunting rifle, shotgun 12/20/410 gauges for fowl hunting, and maybe the conceal and carry people who would have a pistol of various caliber’s.

            There are alot more gun rights people with my view point than the crazies calling for everyone to have a gun. Patrick, and Miles, I would suggest taking a conceal and carry course just to better understand what it means to own and carry a weapon around. When you learn that sort of thing, you cannot help but think about it all the time, esp when you are carrying a weapon around. It’s similar to martial arts, you may initially go to learn how to be a bad-ass, but in the end, you really learn how much you can damage a person (and how easy it really is) which may change your entire mentality about the situation. I no longer care if someone wants to fight with me because of this, I don’t care if they think I am a coward, etc…I know what I can do without a weapon and I have no desire to even “test my skills” so to speak. The bigger man walks away and cares not what others say about him. I believe the same mentality comes from learning and taking a conceal carry course…the ONLY reason you would pull your gun out in ANY case is to use it, and ONLY because you feel your life or the life of a loved one is 100%, completely in jeopardy.

            I will say this, and I bet it’s not popular, but Jovan had a right to own a gun. What Jovan didn’t have the right to do was take the life of Kassandra…or his own. HIS CHOICE was wrong, and unfortunately it stirs up a lot of emotions, and debates about even being able to own a gun. I have no presumption of his mental state and if he did have mental issues, then he should not have had the right to own a gun.

            Sorry my post is so long, but some things need saying, and these are just my humble opinion’s.

          • Kyle Waggener

            I think there is a problem within certain sub-cultures in America of not having the proper respect for guns. They view them as status symbols and as something that makes you “more of a man.” The culture is what needs to change, not laws. Laws don’t change hearts and minds. They actually make it worse. It’s even more cool if you’re doing it illegally. These values that Joshua has talked about concerning guns that he has passed down to his children are exactly what is missing in some sub-cultures that have problems with gun violence. And I say “gun violence” hesitantly because the “gun” is only there because they are more efficient weapons. These sub-cultures have problems with all sorts of violence be it knives, fists or baseball bats. That’s what we should be talking about. Changing the culture not the tools they use.

          • calciomoti

            Very much agreed with your statement Kyle…we all know it’s cool to have an AK47, or a 9mm Glock and then hold it sideways so that they hit everything but what they are aiming at. Sad really…

          • steve james

            Care to address the sentiments expressed in the clever illustrations I posted above?

          • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

            Patrick saying that guns don’t kill people people do and then saying they maybe should be banned because someone could turn violent is also dumbing down is it not? By this logic we shouldn’t let someone who has never drank and drove and killed a minivan full of kids get their license because they could someday. Afterall cars kill more people than guns do. Perhaps we should worry more about things that actually kill large numbers of innocent people. Why are guns the thing people key in on as being bad when literally hundreds of things kill more innocent people than guns do? The gun can’t be uninvented and bad people will have them regardless of the law so I choose to own, be extremely well trained with and carry at least one gun at all times. I refuse to find myself in a situation with an armed maniac threatening my family with nothing more than the hope the cops can stop him.

          • KCMikeG

            Maybe because guns are used to do many other horrible things like people being shot that don’t die and are just parlayed or emotionally scarred for life by the shooting or rape, kidnapping, armed robbery and carjacking facilitated with the threat of a gun. Or do only murders matter – not.

          • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

            You just made my argument for me. My wife carries a gun to reduce the chance of her being raped, carjacked or murdered because criminals don’t care if guns are legal or not they will have one. England has strict gun control and a very high rate of violent crime while Switzerland has virtually no gun control and very little violent crime. People can wake up and face these facts or they can keep hoping for gun control to make sure the only people carrying are cops and bad guys. A gun in your hand will save your ass more often than a cop on the phone.

          • KCMikeG

            No I didn’t make your point – you missed mine. Because guns are used for many other crimes doesn’t make them better it creates the opportunity for more crime let alone the accidental shootings and deaths. Also where do all the guns that criminals buy on the black market come from? Stolen from legal gun owners or sold to criminals by legal gun owners that’s where.
            I’ll say it one more time – I’m not supporting the ban of all gun ownership. Just the proper registration, restricted access and the banning of military/assault type weapons and stock piles of ammo. These are weapons of war and have no place in the hands of citizens. I’m fine with you and your wife packing heat to protect yourself but I’m pretty sure an M16 won’t fit in her purse.

      • steve james

        I would say it is not. A terrorist deals in control through Terror which elicits a greater response than the action actually warrants IE bombing some one kills maybe 50 people but scares tens of millions. A nation state is totally different and they would be more interested in actually killing the tens of millions.

    • steve james

      I sense a purpose. You looking to illustrate a point? Seems you don’t have any takers. Buy or make either way it is kind of like going to the insane asylum and letting the crazy man who said he will murder your family if he ever gets a gun, buy a gun. They have said they want Israel gone a thousand times in much more graphic ways, I have no doubt what will happen that day and we will all be glowing.

    • KCMikeG

      Don’t go giving the NRA any new ideas Paddy!

      Find attached a good read on the original intent of the 2nd Amendment and our Founding Fathers’ and the NRA’s original support of gun control.

      http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/winkler-the-nra-used-to-support-gun-control-1.3865217

  • One Sad Fan

    I’m not sure why you posted in your article about not wanting to rehash the argument on gun control and then post your opinion about it. You contradicted yourself. If you like the higher crime rates and violent crime rates of countries who have banned firearms then banning guns is a good thing. Bad people will continue to find guns regardless of bans.

    • http://www.arrowheadaddict.com Patrick Allen

      Where did he say he didn’t want to rehash the argument about gun control?

      • One Sad Fan

        Paragraph 8 that starts off about the perkins murder, he talks about the gun issue, arguments on both sides, and let’s not re-hash it. Then further in the paragraph he starts the sentence , “To me…” And states his opinion on the argument.

        • http://www.arrowheadaddict.com Patrick Allen

          Gotcha. I kept looking for it and couldn’t find it. Though I think he was making a distinction between the political arguments and his own opinion but I see where you’re coming from.

    • http://www.facebook.com/nicholas.abuhl Nicholas Abuhl

      I agree. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Like the saying.
      “If guns kill people..
      Pencils misspell words
      Cars make people drive drunk
      Spoons make Rosie O’Donnell fat.”

  • steve james

    What a can of worms. Pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject.

  • Boone

    This isn’t a “too many guns” problem, this is a “too many selfish people” problem. The root of all violence like this is selfishness, placing our own wants ahead of the other in the relationship. Given the reports of their ongoing issues, it seems like they’re both at fault for the broken situation, with Belcher choosing his anger as the justification for his selfish actions.

  • Jim Harper

    I only read about half of the response posts before throwing my hands up in the air in exasperation. I find it extremely disconcerting that the main point most of you guys got out of the story was infringement on your gun rights. Anybody take time to think about that 3 month old girl who will never know her parents. Fortunately because of the NFL death benefit she will be well provided for financially, but that won’t mean much to the little girl who at some point will be the target of some other child’s mean attacks. And believe me it will happen. Let’s just hope she is ” packin” at the time and can shoot her little assailant dead!

    • steve james

      Now why would you end your comment like that? I think everyone is thinking of little Zoey of course. It was the first thing I thought about when I heard the news as I have an almost 3 year old myself. I realized long ago that the NFL is in trouble as the science illuminates what this sport does to human brains. I choose to discuss the hot button issue. Look at my post and the pictures there in and tell me you don’t see the elemental truth to them.

      • KCMikeG

        Jim’s point is that it was the gun topic that most everyone jumped on and most of those posts failed to mention any thing else especially over looking baby Zoey. Not saying you don’t care just maybe everyone needs to prioritize where the passion is focused.

        Truth based on what? Please share your sources.

        Exactly how many mass murders like Virginia Tech or the Colorado movie shootings have been stopped by an armed citizen? I ask because I have never heard one story supporting this or your 2.2 lives lost scenario.

        Help me with the “unlearned lesson” of 911? What, if by some slim chance one or more passengers would have been armed blah, blah, blah. Huge hole in that theory is that the hijackers ALL would have been armed already.

        Your final picture showing public places that all have some sort of security service who are armed. I believe beefing up security in public places is better having multiple people with varying training and in various states of mind armed.

    • KCMikeG

      Thank you Jim.

    • KCMikeG

      Great article. Realistic, rational discussion.
      http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/29/opinion/martin-assault-weapons/index.html

  • Ted Long

    Read this. I am a construction worker. I work with granite and marble. Anyone that knows about this knows it is not good for your back to be 170 lbs. and squat and lift something twice your weight then walk into a house with it and do that most days for 10 years. We also deal with hernias and bone spurs. I have measured my self early in the day and at the end of my day again. One and 3/4 inch squashed down that day. I earn about 50k a year. I am so grateful I can not thank my boss enough. I am college educated but there isnt huge growth in my field. I think I have a torn rotator cuff. I cant stand up straight at the end of many days. I used to work in the field I am educated in but do this because I can earn more. I would gladly trade Eric Winston or whomever in the NFL would trade me to have the opportunity they have. I would sprint down the field and smash my body over and over if it meant my daughter is forever secure like there children are(if there parent didnt foolishly squander there security). Deal with it and quit whining. Any man I know would trade all the health problems in the world for his families security.

    God rest the souls of the victim and the mentally ill murderer. Jovan Belcher was a sociopathic animal at best and evil at worst. Happened in the NFL could of happened at your job. Concussions played a part, maybe, but who else reacted to them in any way toward a victim like this?

  • Miles Yi

    Thanks for the great debate, Addicts. I appreciate each of your perspectives. Here’s what we all agree on: the Belcher situation is sad and tragic; Zoey is the biggest victim; and we really feel for the Chiefs right now. On the issue of guns, there’s passion all around – i get that. And this issue is not that different for me than the other hot-button issues of the last few decades – abortion, smoking, the arms race, etc. Extreme measures – total bans or wide open floodgates – aren’t long-term solutions, because extreme measures cater to extremists. No one wants more murders, more abortions, more smokers or more nuclear warheads. From a public health perspective – because after all, we all have to live together – we want to make things that are bad for us harder to get, without imposing full bans, which have been proven time and again to fail. Did seat belt ordinances cause an affront to those who would rather drive without one? Absolutely yes. Will they end up saving lots of lives? Of course they will. Bottom line – this discussion is a great one to have, because it’s one of the few silver linings that horrific events like the Belcher murder may one day have.

  • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

    Ok I won’t point out the fact that obviously Belcher was disturbed and an NFL linebacker who could kill most people with his bare hands. Someone with violence in the heart will be violent and Miles I don’t mean you here but for Bob Costas to use this as a way to grandstand about gun control makes me sick. I also won’t point out the fact that doctors, cars, alcohol, tobacco, illegal drugs, accidental falls, accidental poisoning and many many other things all kill more people in America in a year than guns do. In fact medical mishaps kill 195,000 Americans every year while gun homocides kill just over 11,000. Guns aren’t even un the top 50 most deadly things in America but they are what people pick on because it’s not about gun control it’s just about control. I like your post here but I have a big problem with a misguided and incorrect statement like “there are too many guns in America.” Saying guns are a problem instead of real issues like the bad people who use them at times is a smokescreen used by those with an anti gun agenda. More than three times as many people are murdered with baseball bats every year than with guns and I don’t hear anybody trying to get them banned. New York City, Chicago and Washington D.C. are the 3 highest murder rate cities in the country and gun carry is illegal in all 3. Coincidence? I doubt it. I’m sorry but the anti gun argument is old and wrong and facts and statistics debunk it so I had to vent this.

    • KCMikeG

      Misguided and incorrect should have been the title of your post. Sorry but you are just making things up here. This is the scary part when people just start spouting off these “facts” about how harmless guns are compared to other weapons.

      Definitely need to check your references and share them with us as claiming that MORE than 3 times as many people are killed by BB bats than guns is just ridiculous. Based on ONLY 11,000 deaths a year that would mean OVER 33,000 people were murdered with BB bats. NOT! In 2008 over 14,000 people were murdered and 66% were by guns. The next closest was stabbing at 13% followed by blunt object (there’s those murderous BB bats finally!) at a combined total of 614 – little hard to find 33,000 in that number. So either there are just too many guns or guns make killing someone easier as I can’t think of any other reasons why they would be the leading weapon used to murder by OVER FIVE TIMES the next closest weapon. So sick of the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” crap. Really? Thanks for telling me because I thought weapons were running around discharging themselves killing innocent people. Duh! Killing with guns is easier, quicker, allows for larger numbers of victims and is more physically removed from the victim than all other methods. See the link below for the facts.
      http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

      According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.

      Another couple of lulus – Medical mishaps occur during a procedure to help people while gun murders had no good intentions. People choose to smoke and take drugs that can cause death but no murder victim by firearms chose that fate.

      The argument isn’t guns or no guns – that is the BS smoke screen used to prevent rational registration, tracking and control over who has them and what kind/how many guns. Looking forward to any corroborating evidence instead of angry, misguided rants.

      • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

        Hey if you want to be scared of guns and poke your head in the sand that’s your busuness. No amount of arguing and wishing they didn’t exist will change anything. You don’t like them? Fine don’t have one but leave my rights alone. My guns have never killed anybody and won’t unless they have to.

        • KCMikeG

          No information validating your wild claims of three times as many people being killed with BB bats than guns??? You encourage me to do my research yet obviously did none of your own to disprove the research I provided. NO supporting facts just super secret information you can’t share “legally” that I am supposed to just accept because you are a “bit of an expert” (how do you become just of a bit of one? Join the NRA?). Then since you can’t disprove the real facts I provided you just make up that I’m “scared” of guns and that I don’t like them or that I wish they didn’t exist. Wrong again. I have owned a gun and hunted all of my life with many different responsible hunters and funny thing is I never once saw anyone break out their AK47 or M16. I would be just as free with my shot gun if assault weapons were illegal.

          • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

            Look Mike we’ve talked a lot on here and I’ve generally agreed and respected your opinions. First off “assault weapons” are illegal for non military or police or anyone without a class 3 dealer license. Average Joe can’t own an ak. There is no such thing as a semi automatic assault rifle and full auto is indeed illegal so that point is moot. My info isn’t secret either. It’s really quite easy to find but I can’t provide legal resources without risking losing the licensing that allows me to make a living so I won’t do it, sorry. People have become way too comfortable being spoon fed false information by the government which causes fear and division. A scared and unarmed society is much easier to control. The first thing Hitler did was remove guns from law abiding citizens. With all do respect you clearly have no idea how the world is outside of what you think you know. I see it every day and it’s ugly. I promise if you disarm the good guys you will see a rapid decline in what civilization we have left. Look at Africa and Syria. Nobody but the evil militias have guns and innocent people are slaughtered by the thousands. Armed citizens have been what stood between us and tyranny since the founding of America.

          • KCMikeG

            With all due respect you keep missing the point that I am NOT supporting the disarming of the citizens nor the ban on all guns. I am fully aware of the world beyond my opinion. It is you that has posted unsubstantiated claims and resorts to scare tactics like Hitler and 3rd world militias.

            Please share some facts that support your claim that “assault weapons” are illegal and that the average Joe can’t own an AK because it certainly appears that I can buy one right off the internet.

            http://www.gunsinternational.com/AK-47-ASSAULT-RIFLE-IZHMASH-SAGIA-RUSSIA-MADE.cfm?gun_id=100303228

            OR from one of my local gun dealers:
            http://www.thegunnetwork.com/gun_dealers/IA/-/0/

            Here is one of the ways criminals get guns from legal gun owners:

            http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/48283194#48283194

            Again, I am NOT calling for ALL guns to be banned. I completely understand and respect the right to own a gun for hunting and/or self defense. There clearly needs to be limitations on what type of guns, how many a person can own and how much ammo can be stock piled. When guns are sold there should be better back ground checks, registration and tracking just like there is on those killer motor vehicles and most importantly there needs to be tougher restrictions on who can own guns.

          • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

            I promise you can not legally buy a fully automatic weapon on the internet. You can buy crack on any street corner in kc. Is it legal? You can buy an ar but not an ak. I have special permits and licensing and I can’t even buy one. I agree that private gun sales should be illegal. It should be through a dealer only. Dealers do run background checks which don’t allow felons to buy guns. Limiting number of guns and ammo is ridiculous. What could that possibly solve? One gun and one bullet can equal one death. I personally have many guns of many varieties because I’m a collector. I have the right to own as many as I want for the same reason Jay Leno can own 5,000 cars. Does he need them? Of course not but in America he has that right just like you and me. I also have large amounts of ammo. Granted, my job requires me to be armed at all times but even if it didn’t I still would because it’s my constitutional right to do so and I went to the trouble to make sure I’m licensed and legal. I agree that they do get into the hands of the wrong people sometimes but they will regardless. Laws and regulations don’t work. If they did this country wouldn’tt have more drugs than most others combined. Laws are only for law abiding people. The idea of only criminals being armed is pretty damn scary to me.

      • http://powellbailbonds.weebly.com/ big chief

        Btw in my profession I have to be a bit of an expert on crime and guns. Your problem is you’re getting your info from a government website and you believe it. I can’t legally give you reference to resources with the truth but they are out there. My comment wasn’t a rant or misguided it was simply fact that you can realize or not. This will be my last word on the subject but I encourage you to research this before you do any more damage to your freedom and safety.