The End Comes

@big chief They are calling for Caldwell out in Indy man. My buddy is an obsessed Indy fan and he says the writings on the wall for Jim Tressel to come aboard out there. Were do you get this rebuilding thing at man? Do you understand what contracts are? Most of our elite talent is locked up for years. The roster will not be overhauled. The new coach isnt gonna throw away what the Chiefs have started the names we have will draw top tier talent. Haley was fired early so we could get them early. Pioli is still there brother I liked Haley too but there are better coaches out there.

The reference to Paddy's piece.... My God! No one light a match.... Big Matt's straw man is so huge it might start a forest fire. Nice job showing only the "debatable positives" and leaving out the more fact based ones. What about... -Haley has completely turned around the KC roster. After seasons of 4-12, 2-14 and 4-12 under Herm Edwards, Haley led the team to 4-12, 10-6 and 5-7 records. The team is better under Haley. -Under Haley, Derrick Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, Tamba Hali, Matt Cassel and Jamaal Charles all had career seasons. Bowe, Hali, Charles and Cassel made their first Pro Bowls. -Haley has shown the ability to keep his team playing hard despite tough circumstances. He rallied the team to a 4-3 record after an 0-3 start in 2011. -In 2010 and 2011, Haley has calmed down on the sidelines. He now keeps his cool more often than not, which demonstrates an ability to grow and change, a key personality trait needed in a young head coach.

-Haley doesn’t make excuses like some other KC coaches of years past. He takes responsibility for his team’s failures and gives his players credit for their success. -Haley’s 2011 team has remained competitive despite a brutal 2011 schedule. The will play meaningful games in December for the second straight year and are only two games out of first place in the AFC West with four games to play. Oh yea... in case your keeping score at home, that is every positive point that Big Matt DID NOT include in his post. Easy to make an argument when you just disregard anything that doesn't prove your point. "There is a lesson here. Allow your personal feelings to influence your judgment, and you risk a shaming." This is football, entertainment, personal feelings should matter. You run the risk of shaming yourself when you get so entrenched in your opinions that you throw out straw man arguments, when Haley's firing speaks for itself. I'd have more respect for someone arguing that the Chiefs still have a chance at a super bowl title this year, if they argue just the facts and chances.... rather then someone speaking from up on their pedestal, gloating about being right, and using blatant straw man arguments to try and prove points that speak for themselves.

@Gjrchief 1) I don't think you know what a straw man is. 2) I didn't include all Paddy's negatives either. Not by a long shot. I linked, so you could go take a look for yourselves. What exactly do you think you've busted me on here? 3) "gloating about being right" - I was just saying last week that haley shouldn't be fired. As I said in the article, I didn't really want him fired. Where am I gloating, exactly? The part where I say "Looks like we're officially shamed aas well"? Where I include myself in the shaming? Thats gloating to you?

@Big Matt 1. You referenced a work of Paddy's that showed why many are on the fence with regards to Haley. Instead of argueing that point you pulled specific quotations from Paddy's position that proved your point, creating a new position that Haleys negatives outweigh his positives. That is the position you based your arguement on, but it does not represent the true version of the original piece... it is a distorted version, a straw man. The quotes you pulled don't reflect the same meaning Paddy presented in his piece. You made his arguement of negatives equalling out positives, much weaker by only showing the debateable positives and the fact based negatives. That sir is classic straw man.

@bossmanham And yet, i think its safe to say firing Haley was probably discussed at the time that rumor dropped. I mean what, they weren't thinking about it at all after an 0-3 start, and then after he goes 5-5 in his next 10 games they'd seen enough?

@ KC_for_life Your absolutely right. With the prospect of talent on the Chiefs roster we have now and the high draft pick potential of getting an elite young passer would be to much for alot of coaches to just sit by and watch the KC job go bye. We are almost there honestly. Good QB sign Bowe and Carr get a right tackle add some depth at safety and linebacker and we compete every Sunday.

@KC_for_life A new HC comes in and leaves everything standing pat? Really? Everything is going to change, so just be prepared.

@BluMax False, this is not like before with the recent coaching changes we've had. What do you think he's gonna do tell JC to pack his shit. We have a good team most coaches will keep most of it in tact.

@KC_for_life @BluMax I meant position coach-wise. Most players are under contract.

@BluMax ok good point, sry about the snide comment it's finals week but still how much transition period is there with position coaches? I don't think you can say oh the chiefs have a new Oline coach so that group will regress. I don't think new position coaches will mean the team is rebuilding. I just felt like saying we're rebuilding in the article is inaccurate, I think we can and will compete in 2012

@Danny W Pioli cut Gaither

@KC Oracle Its all a gamble. Even if we did get Cower there are no guarantee's, lets just hope he doesnt stick to Crennel as the HC and lets him run the defense. I would like to know why Bill Muir will be fired or headed back to the line coach job at seasons end too I hope.

@Arrowhead Adventurer I like the first two and hate the last one.

Big names. Cower won't come. Gruden probably won't without a big time quarterback. Billick is a pompous jerk. Next.

@Arrowhead Adventurer Dont forget Jim Fishcer

@Danny W Who is Jim Fischer? Do you mean Jeff Fisher? I don't really want him or Billick. Cowher, Gruden, or McDaniels. I like Crennel as DC, and McDaniels would greatly improve the offense. I also think McDaniels would push to draft a QB, too.

@IceChief27 @danny BOOOOOOOOOOO McDaniels

@hannzo24 Depending on the HC, Bowe seems to be destined as one of those guys who never reaches greatness. Last TD miss is what Bowe seem more about.

@tm1946 I disagree man I think Bowe will be just fine he can be a beast. The quicker we fire the likes of Terry Copper Jerhme Urban the happier I'll be. Signing Carr is an absolute no brainer unless your set on keeping a qb on our roster and signing the kid out of LSU.

I think you did a typo 5.6 yards per carry is REALLY GOOD

@JustinRGroth I think he means yards per catch.

@aliveoutofhabit Head coach runs the Pats

@dfrey87 Good coaches can do a lot with very little, look at the 49ers and the Patriots. Haley has done some awful coaching this year.

@hannzo24@dfrey87 patriots!!!???? They do still have Brady right? Belicheck isnt exactly begging for scraps now.

@JamieTurnbull i wish there was a dislike button

why? cause i speak the truth? @blacksheep57

@JamieTurnbull@blacksheep57 No, because it seems a bit mean-spirited: wishing failure for the Chiefs because you don't like the firing or the GM. I can totally appreciate you disagreeing with the move and your support of Haley, just don't wish such a miserable next season upon the Chiefs, and all of us addicts along with them. We all suffer in our own ways. :(

im sorry! it was a bad move by the front office! but seriously who is going to replace him? del rio or..McDaniels...dont say Dungy or Cowher or Fisher..you all know that will never happen cause we have an idiot GM!!!!! @sidibeke @blacksheep57

@JamieTurnbull You may be suprised man. He may come up with a nice head coach and Norv Turner may get fired and then pick him up as an offensive coordinator.

doubt it. pioli only gets people within his coaching family. we will prolly end up with that coach from Iowa. so we will end up with a rookie head coach and a rookie QB or Stanzi....greeeeat...@Danny W

Haley was the hottest HC left that year we got him. The coordinators we got were the hottest the year we got those and the fact they had previously worked together means nothing when you have three superbowls as coordinators. Gruden, Tressel, Cower, Fisher, are all HC options out there. Pioli could get any of those. We have a nice team built we will compete next year with more depth and hopefully a rookie QB.

@JamieTurnbull@blacksheep57 It's okay. I understand your hatred for Pioli and am not entirely sure it is not well placed. We all feel your pain.

@sidibeke@blacksheep57 oh its very well placed i will not watch Kc play unless the hire Dungy, cowher or fisher and even if they do i still might not watch until pioli is gone.