So KC Fans, Is The Sky Really Falling?

by Armchair Addict

Okay, I’m not going to lie to you. The game against the Rams on Friday night was a BIG disappointment for me. I stated last week that I thought the team needed to come out and beat up on the Rams in order to get the team in the right state of mind headed into the regular season. Yes, it was only a 4 point loss, and in the preseason that doesn’t always tell you who would win in a regular season game. However, the fact that their offense marched down and got two quick scores while KC’s first string offense continued to sputter didn’t help the thousands of Chiefs fans who have been worried about their team’s slow start to the preseason to feel any better.


The question is simple. Is this poor play in the preseason a sign of misery to come or simply worthless preseason fodder that won’t have any bearing on how the team plays in the regular season. Obviously, Todd Haley and his team would like us to believe that they are saving up and building for September 11th and that there is no reason for alarm. Meanwhile, some in Chiefs Nation (fans, media, bloggers, etc.) are starting to address some real concerns that they believe could carry over to the games that count and might prevent the Chiefs from repeating the success they had last season. MAYBE, the Chiefs will come out in their final preseason game (at the Super Bowl champs) and put on a show that will set all their fans at ease, but given their approach to the preseason thus far, I doubt it.

The simple truth is that we won’t know for sure until the Chiefs take the field against the Bills. However, we can look at both at the talent on the roster and the play of individual players on the field to make an educated guess. That is exactly what I will try to do after the break.

So let’s start by looking at the roster and where there might be a change in the talent from last season. I’ll go position by position.

QB: Croyle Out, Stanzi In
HB: Same other than McClain possibly playing there and McCluster getting more time.
FB: Castille Out, McClain In
WR: Chambers Out, Baldwin, Breaston, Urban In
TE: Same
OL: Waters Out, Hudson and Gaither In
DL: Edwards and Smith Out, Gregg, Powe, and Bailey In
LB: Vrabel and Mays Out, Houston, Sheffield, and (? ILB) In
CB: Brown In
S: Piscitelli In
K,P,LS: All same

Okay, so is there any position on the Chiefs where we can clearly say the Chiefs have gotten worse in terms of the roster talent at that position? In my opinion, there are only three positions that you can make even a small case for the Chiefs being worse off: QB, OL, and DL. At QB we lost our backup that had some NFL starting experience in Croyle. However, that experience was never winning an NFL game, EVER. Plus when we needed Croyle last year he laid an egg against the Chargers. So at least Stanzi has future upside. I would call the backup QB position on par with last year with the possibility of it being better as Stanzi (and Palko) develop. On the OL it would be easy to say that we lost our Pro Bowl guard so we must be worse off. However, Waters was clearly starting to slip a little last year and the Chiefs had a player on the roster in Asamoah to replace him. Hudson essentially replaces Asamoah as the up and comer on the bench. That leaves Gaither; if he’s healthy and makes the team then I would vote for the OL overall being a little better off than last year. Finally the DL, I think when the Chiefs first lost both Edwards and Smith a lot of fans were worried about this spot. However, Gregg and Powe appear (so far) to be an upgrade over Edwards. The Chiefs have not replaced Smith’s role of a DE that can rotate with Jackson. They did however add an interior pass rusher in Bailey. So I guess if you want to break it down by position, they got better at NT and interior pass rush, but worse at DE.

So in terms of roster talent, the only position that they may have slipped at is 3-4 DE, and that could change IF Tyson Jackson improves. At other positions like FB, WR, and OLB the Chiefs have clearly upgraded their talent from last year.

Speaking of last year, if I was going to go back and make a list of the five biggest problems the team had from last year this would be my list.

1. No WR threats after Bowe.
2. No outside pass rush after Hali.
3. NT play in general.
4. Bad short yardage run game.
5. RT play in general.

So, despite the horrible preseason play, can we call any of those problems solved? Let’s go in order.

1. We have improved the WR position this offseason. Verran Tucker was clearly our second best WR after Bowe last season. In practice thus far Tucker seems to now be the 5th man behind Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, and Urban. That is a sign of progress. Now, I would argue (like most of you) that Tucker belongs ahead of Urban, but just the fact that he’s gone from clearly #2 to trying to win the #4 spot is a sign that we are better off. Now some may argue that Baldwin is hurt and Breaston hasn’t been a factor, but can anybody really argue that they aren’t an upgrade over Chambers?

2. Last season there was basically no pass rush whatsoever from the OLB spot opposite Tamba Hali. I think most KC fans would have said that Studebaker was the best of the OLBs after Hali in terms of pass rush skills. This preseason however, Studebaker has been a distant 4th in terms of OLBs behind Hali, Houston, and Sheffield. Both of the last two have shown a constant ability to apply pressure to the QB which is something that has been lacking for several years. This may be the most improved area on the team.

3. Ron Edwards gave a very workman like effort at NT last season. The numbers however show that he just wasn’t very good at his job. The Chiefs now appear to have a good thing going at NT. Kelly Gregg should be an upgrade over Edwards, but even if his age catches up with him he should at worst be even with Edwards play last year. However, the fact that Gregg appears to be a great teacher and mentor for our 6th round pick Jerrell Powe makes the situation all the better. Powe has the physical size and strength to be an NFL NT if he can just learn how to play the position and get his conditioning up. Plus, Powe has flashed better than expected quickness so far this preseason. Overall, even though it would be nice to have a probowler lining up at NT, I still feel much better about the position this year.

4. In the playoff game against the Ravens the Chiefs (the #1 rushing team in the NFL) had a third and inches in the first half and ran a pitch outside to Jamaal Charles. That tells you all you need to know about their faith in their short yardage run game. Enter LeRon McClain. McClain gives the Chiefs a couple of options. First, he’s a better lead blocker then Cox was. Second, he’s a better short yardage runner then Jones is if they want to put him at HB with Cox as the lead blocker. Plus, something not many people have talked about, Waters got pushed around last year by powerful defensive lines. Asamoah may not be as “savvy” as Waters, but in terms of sheer power at the point of attack, I like a young Asamoah over the once great, but now aging Waters in short yardage. AND….if the 57 year old Casey Weigmann isn’t getting great push up front they could bring Hudson in for short yardage plays at center. Once again, I feel like this area is better off than last season.

5. Well, at least the other 4 areas are improved. I really thought KC would go out and get a tackle to upgrade over Richardson. Thus far in preseason, Richardson has NOT been any better. If anything he has been worse. The only hope for improvement is that Gaither would earn the coaching staff’s trust and take over at RT. Some are even saying he should play LT, but I think it’s too risky to put a guy with work, attitude, and health issues at LT over a guy who has been okay (not great, but okay) and risk alienating Albert. Regardless, this is the one area of the 5 major concerns that you can’t argue has gotten any better yet.

So 4 of our biggest problems appear to have been upgraded with the 5th being the same as last year. You combine that with the Chiefs upgrading talent at several spots while only one position really looking like it could be worse off (and Tyson Jackson is at least showing some signs that he can fill the void left by Smith) and I think it is very reasonable to say that this team is better than it was last year when they went 10-6 and won the division even after seeing the garbage that has been the first three preseason games. IF..the Chiefs can achieve their goal of staying healthy throughout the preseason (knocking on wood) and they really have been conditioning as hard as reports say they have been, then they should be in good shape for the regular season. The only question marks are if they have the same winning attitude and can all get on the same page. It would be nice if there were signs of this in KC’s final preseason game. However, even if there aren’t, I think there is still enough proof of improvement out there to keep the Chicken Littles of the world from freaking out. So keep the faith and remember September 11th is only two weeks away.


As always, thanks for reading and GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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No where to go but up my friend!

@JimHarper Thanks, I guess. I will not go into the ignorant or idiot side of anyones post, even yours. Classy.

Well tm1946 I certainly defend your right to say the things you say, regardless of how ignorant they are. I don't see any logic in anything you say. Furthermore stating that no one here could afford your seats raises the idiot standard to a level heretofore unattainable. You seem to subscribe to the "my dad can beat up your dad " theory, well before you have seen the other guys dad. Good luck with that approach.

Well I feel the concern and if you do not, you're just of the opinion that we can just 'turn it on' when we have to. Possible, and I sure hope so but I think not. From the start, being the only team to get shutout in the opener, 25 zip no less was not ideal to say the least. We have no continuity out there to bring to the regular season still at this time and Patrick’s' questioning of Haley's approach to preseason (article after article) seems to hit home in hindsight! This was not a normal preseason because of the strike and other clubs (Green Bay included) have focused on continuity versus 'normal preseason' evaluations, and 'real' QB's are playing 'real' minutes unlike what we are doing. Do you think we're going to get the continuity we need in GB? Also not getting Kerry was an error. HELP ME SPOCK! FOLLOW THE LAZER!

@tm1946 SOLD for $10 each. How many more do I own now beyond the 4 I have already? You can keep the beer and parking as I don't drink and arrive by limo. Wow! You're obviously a high risk investor to buy expensive season tickets with so little faith in our success.

Oh come on! Preseason isnt an indicator of anything except that the game involves a bunch of thrown together guys trying to keep their jobs and ingnoring team cohesion.After the first game of the season nobody mentions preseason performances again.

@sidibeke Guys, I think some of us are having memory issues? Two years ago we needed a WR, we when thru the bum off the street plan and the Chiefs banked 30 million. Last year we need a WR, among other positions, and the Chiefs banked 30 million. This year we "had" to draft Baldwin because we DID NOT spend 60 mill the two years before. Do I have to describe how impressed everyone is with him, even Pioli ? Another 30 mil is in the bank, what are the Chiefs missing? I will leave it to you to decide. Sorry, but it seems to me it is retarded to say it is fine that the Chiefs saved 90 million in three years but all is good with the team. We needed players and we got money.

I am more of the future is now and not much into some magical dynasty. That said I am pleased the Houston is part of the team. I am displeased in NT, Gregg is not much if you ask me. OC, is there even a coach with that title here? Defense cannot stop much in the first qtr. And do not get me started on Pioli and his plan. But the preseason is not the end all. I am dieing to see who and what the Chiefs are against the Bills. Mostly because I am pretty unhappy about what I have seen so far. So bring it on. Just love the posters who have jumped into the deep end about "if we are so bad, sell your tickets". I doubt most have the money to buy my seats unless I sold them at 10 bucks and give free parking and their first beer. Second put you money where you butt goes, there are plenty of seats available today, THAT' CORRECT, the Chiefs have tickets available for every single game. Feel free to kiss my rear on that subject.

@tm1946 Getting return for a lesser investment seems pretty smart to me. I'd be a bit more disgruntled if I felt like the Chiefs were lacking talent or if there was a FA I really feel like they should have jumped on (Franklin is an exception here, but it looks like he's had a quiet preseaon with NO and will likely miss the opener with a sprained MCL--how many FAs get injured with their new teams (Sweet Ron--get better, Siler, Franklin...), but I don't.

@LyleGraversen My bad. My memory is that there had been a lot of talk about moving Albert to the right side and I guess I assumed he had played that in college. I'm still nervous about having Richardson over there. Is there anyone we could plug in?

Lyle Thanks for bringing the Chicken Little images to life! I had been using the phrase recently to help talk a few fans off the ledge! Thank you also for bring the facts to light. So many want to discount who we are and our accomplishments to justify wading in over the top of their boots in preseason waste. We won our division and have added and developed significantly through the draft and FA. No one in our division set the world on fire with their acquisitions and play almost exactly the same schedule. By the way, anyone out there who believes we are going to be such a crappy, disorganized bunch of losers that wants to sell their field level season tickets at a discount just let me know. Shhh! Don't tell anyone else but I'm investing in an up and coming dynasty!

@Celtks Exactly! Preseason is such an accurate indicator of regular season success. If your selling I'm buying!

@Chief Hokie Couldn't of said it better! Thanks for keeping it real.

@sidibeke Albert has never played RT, he was a LG in college and a LT in HS (with Gaither playing RT on the same team). I just don't think you move a "good soldier" like Albert until Gaither proves he'll stay healthy and work hard. If he does that this year at RT and looks better then Albert then have them swap in the offseason for next year.

@JimHarper Thanks Jim, glad we're on the same page this time. I'm hopeful that Gaither will step up for us. He can't be any worse then Richardson, right?

@Arowhead_Addict I'm curious what they'll do this Thursday. It almost seems like they're building up to the regular season so maybe they'll go all out in this final game and play the starters into the third quarter. Or then again maybe they'll just play a couple series and rest for Buff. I'm done trying to figure out what Haley's plan for the preseason.

Look, you make a valid point. The RT position this year is a perfect example. The Chiefs could have forked over the money for a better RT but didn't. At the same time how mad would everyone be if we went out and spent money on a bunch of free agents (that often don't live up to those big checks) and then didn't have the money to resign guys like Flowers and Bowe? The Chiefs are building the same way that teams like NE, Ind. and Pit. have and that's a pretty good model to follow.

@tm1946 So much negativity from you today. Did someone run over your puppy?

@Chief Hokie 90 million in three years? We could have two NFL teams in KC with that kind of money. Is that enough cushion for you? And if the Pioli plan fails to make its superbowl, what happens then? Maybe it disappears into the Hunt family checking account?

I agree. My concerns are: Barry Richardson, not just had a bad game but he's not looking any better. He should be. At this point, I think I'd feel more comfortable with Gaither at LT and Albert at RT, if Albert's getting some reps over there to refresh his memory. We upgraded in talent at WR, but I'm afraid we won't see that until game 4 or 5. Breaston is clearly still getting the hang of the offense, and Baldwin, well we all know about Baldwin. The special teams wasn't stellar last year, but it seems to have taken a step back. Not sure why that is. In Vrabel's absence, I think we have more talent. That talent is young, though, and will make some mistakes. And the question remains, who will the starter be? One change you omitted: OC. I wasn't and remain unconvinced that losing Weis will be a horrible loss. And I love the addition of Zorn, but the play calling in Weis absence remains to be seen. I don't think we can judge too much of that from preseason (I hope!).

It's called timing. You don't go and fill up your cap space on free agents when you're not super bowl ready. We need to have a cushion of money saved up so when we go for it all (next year?), we can add on some FA's and also spend the money on home-bred talent, like we did with Carr this year. There's alot of players on our team that will be FA's next season so we need to spend a limited amount in order to build the team until we're ready to contend for a superbowl.

Well, fear not the Chiefs, FOR THE THIRD YEAR, are the team with the most cap money not used. Another 30 million not spent. There is something you can be proud of.

My attitude toward preseason is much like my motivation to move quickly on a hot summer day, that is to say, it's sluggish at best and nonexistent at worst. I just don't believe in getting worked up for "games" that don't matter. That said, WOW, have we really lived through a decade of crap defense?

Great stuff Lyle. I think my worry isn't so much the talent level but the team cohesion. The Chiefs SHOULD be a way better team in 2011 than they were in 2010. They have boatloads more talent. The question is, will they learn to play as a team in time? As far as I can tell, the Chiefs are all about team ball. That is why there were so many heroes last season. McCluster, Moeaki, Tamba, Flowers, DJ, Cassel, Charles, even Jones, all had moments where they shined and were a big factor in a certain victory. Someone always stepped up while the rest of the team played well. This preseason, I've seen some nice individual performances but the team looks a mess. That said, they still have plenty of time to get it together. I sure would like to see them moving in that direction this Thursday.

Good argument on the personnel side, but this argument is not complete without discussing the loss of Charlie Weiss. Haley thinks he can do both jobs, but this is the same guy who refused to shake JIm Harbaugh's hand after a PRE-SEASON game. I think this sums it up nicely: http://www.pitch.com/imager/todd-haley-yanked-play-calling-from-charlie-weis-proving-this-pitch/b/original/2577175/7ca1/haleyscrazy.jpg

Runs around in circles frenetically looking up at the sky! The Chiefs are doomed this year. The preseason proved it. We are horrible, so sell your tickets now. (I just went to work for 810 Sports.)

Great insight Lyle! Seems like I usually take exception to your evaluations, but this time I think you are spot on. I loved all the things that they did this season with the possible exception of not taking Phil Taylor, but they may be right on that issue. Powe is showing great promise and there is no one better to mentor him than Gregg. I feel pretty strongly that much of this season rests on the shoulders of Gaither. I hope I am not reading things into it because it is what I want, but Gaither seems to be back to his pro bowl form and have seen very positive signs in regards to his attitude. This line has the potential to become one of the best in the league which could turn Jamal into a Roman candle. Anyway I loved your analysis. Go Chiefs

TEDLAZER 8 pts

Well I feel the concern and if you do not, you're just of the opinion that we can just 'turn it on' when we have to. Possible, and I sure hope so but I think not. From the start, being the only team to get shutout in the opener, 25 zip no less was not ideal to say the least. We have no continuity out there to bring to the regular season still at this time and Patrick’s' questioning of Haley's approach to preseason (article after article) seems to hit home in hindsight! This was not a normal preseason because of the strike and other clubs (Green Bay included) have focused on continuity versus 'normal preseason' evaluations, and 'real' QB's are playing 'real' minutes unlike what we are doing. Do you think we're going to get the continuity we need in GB? Also not getting Kerry was an error. HELP ME SPOCK! FOLLOW THE LAZER!

Arrowhead Adventurer 97 pts

Oh come on! Preseason isnt an indicator of anything except that the game involves a bunch of thrown together guys trying to keep their jobs and ingnoring team cohesion.After the first game of the season nobody mentions preseason performances again.

tm1946 183 pts

I am more of the future is now and not much into some magical dynasty. That said I am pleased the Houston is part of the team. I am displeased in NT, Gregg is not much if you ask me. OC, is there even a coach with that title here? Defense cannot stop much in the first qtr. And do not get me started on Pioli and his plan.

But the preseason is not the end all. I am dieing to see who and what the Chiefs are against the Bills. Mostly because I am pretty unhappy about what I have seen so far. So bring it on.

Just love the posters who have jumped into the deep end about "if we are so bad, sell your tickets". I doubt most have the money to buy my seats unless I sold them at 10 bucks and give free parking and their first beer. Second put you money where you butt goes, there are plenty of seats available today, THAT' CORRECT, the Chiefs have tickets available for every single game. Feel free to kiss my rear on that subject.

KC MikeG 319 pts

tm1946

SOLD for $10 each. How many more do I own now beyond the 4 I have already? You can keep the beer and parking as I don't drink and arrive by limo. Wow! You're obviously a high risk investor to buy expensive season tickets with so little faith in our success.

KC MikeG 319 pts

Lyle Thanks for bringing the Chicken Little images to life! I had been using the phrase recently to help talk a few fans off the ledge! Thank you also for bring the facts to light. So many want to discount who we are and our accomplishments to justify wading in over the top of their boots in preseason waste. We won our division and have added and developed significantly through the draft and FA. No one in our division set the world on fire with their acquisitions and play almost exactly the same schedule. By the way, anyone out there who believes we are going to be such a crappy, disorganized bunch of losers that wants to sell their field level season tickets at a discount just let me know. Shhh! Don't tell anyone else but I'm investing in an up and coming dynasty!

sidibeke 259 pts

I agree. My concerns are:

Barry Richardson, not just had a bad game but he's not looking any better. He should be. At this point, I think I'd feel more comfortable with Gaither at LT and Albert at RT, if Albert's getting some reps over there to refresh his memory.

We upgraded in talent at WR, but I'm afraid we won't see that until game 4 or 5. Breaston is clearly still getting the hang of the offense, and Baldwin, well we all know about Baldwin.

The special teams wasn't stellar last year, but it seems to have taken a step back. Not sure why that is.

In Vrabel's absence, I think we have more talent. That talent is young, though, and will make some mistakes. And the question remains, who will the starter be?

One change you omitted: OC. I wasn't and remain unconvinced that losing Weis will be a horrible loss. And I love the addition of Zorn, but the play calling in Weis absence remains to be seen. I don't think we can judge too much of that from preseason (I hope!).

LyleGraversen 313 pts

sidibeke Albert has never played RT, he was a LG in college and a LT in HS (with Gaither playing RT on the same team). I just don't think you move a "good soldier" like Albert until Gaither proves he'll stay healthy and work hard. If he does that this year at RT and looks better then Albert then have them swap in the offseason for next year.

sidibeke 259 pts

LyleGraversen My bad. My memory is that there had been a lot of talk about moving Albert to the right side and I guess I assumed he had played that in college.

I'm still nervous about having Richardson over there. Is there anyone we could plug in?

tm1946 183 pts

Well, fear not the Chiefs, FOR THE THIRD YEAR, are the team with the most cap money not used. Another 30 million not spent. There is something you can be proud of.

Chief Hokie 87 pts

It's called timing. You don't go and fill up your cap space on free agents when you're not super bowl ready. We need to have a cushion of money saved up so when we go for it all (next year?), we can add on some FA's and also spend the money on home-bred talent, like we did with Carr this year. There's alot of players on our team that will be FA's next season so we need to spend a limited amount in order to build the team until we're ready to contend for a superbowl.

tm1946 183 pts

Chief Hokie 90 million in three years? We could have two NFL teams in KC with that kind of money. Is that enough cushion for you? And if the Pioli plan fails to make its superbowl, what happens then? Maybe it disappears into the Hunt family checking account?

LyleGraversen 313 pts

Look, you make a valid point. The RT position this year is a perfect example. The Chiefs could have forked over the money for a better RT but didn't. At the same time how mad would everyone be if we went out and spent money on a bunch of free agents (that often don't live up to those big checks) and then didn't have the money to resign guys like Flowers and Bowe? The Chiefs are building the same way that teams like NE, Ind. and Pit. have and that's a pretty good model to follow.

KC MikeG 319 pts

Chief Hokie

Couldn't of said it better! Thanks for keeping it real.

Big Jim 233 pts

tm1946 So much negativity from you today. Did someone run over your puppy?

sidibeke 259 pts

tm1946 Getting return for a lesser investment seems pretty smart to me. I'd be a bit more disgruntled if I felt like the Chiefs were lacking talent or if there was a FA I really feel like they should have jumped on (Franklin is an exception here, but it looks like he's had a quiet preseaon with NO and will likely miss the opener with a sprained MCL--how many FAs get injured with their new teams (Sweet Ron--get better, Siler, Franklin...), but I don't.

tm1946 183 pts

sidibeke

Guys, I think some of us are having memory issues? Two years ago we needed a WR, we when thru the bum off the street plan and the Chiefs banked 30 million. Last year we need a WR, among other positions, and the Chiefs banked 30 million. This year we "had" to draft Baldwin because we DID NOT spend 60 mill the two years before. Do I have to describe how impressed everyone is with him, even Pioli ?

Another 30 mil is in the bank, what are the Chiefs missing? I will leave it to you to decide. Sorry, but it seems to me it is retarded to say it is fine that the Chiefs saved 90 million in three years but all is good with the team. We needed players and we got money.

Big Jim 233 pts

Well tm1946 I certainly defend your right to say the things you say, regardless of how ignorant they are. I don't see any logic in anything you say. Furthermore stating that no one here could afford your seats raises the idiot standard to a level heretofore unattainable. You seem to subscribe to the "my dad can beat up your dad " theory, well before you have seen the other guys dad. Good luck with that approach.

tm1946 183 pts

Big Jim Thanks, I guess. I will not go into the ignorant or idiot side of anyones post, even yours. Classy.

natasha2marie 92 pts

My attitude toward preseason is much like my motivation to move quickly on a hot summer day, that is to say, it's sluggish at best and nonexistent at worst. I just don't believe in getting worked up for "games" that don't matter.

That said, WOW, have we really lived through a decade of crap defense?

Arowhead_Addict 491 pts

Great stuff Lyle.

I think my worry isn't so much the talent level but the team cohesion. The Chiefs SHOULD be a way better team in 2011 than they were in 2010. They have boatloads more talent. The question is, will they learn to play as a team in time?

As far as I can tell, the Chiefs are all about team ball. That is why there were so many heroes last season. McCluster, Moeaki, Tamba, Flowers, DJ, Cassel, Charles, even Jones, all had moments where they shined and were a big factor in a certain victory. Someone always stepped up while the rest of the team played well.

This preseason, I've seen some nice individual performances but the team looks a mess.

That said, they still have plenty of time to get it together. I sure would like to see them moving in that direction this Thursday.

LyleGraversen 313 pts

Arowhead_Addict I'm curious what they'll do this Thursday. It almost seems like they're building up to the regular season so maybe they'll go all out in this final game and play the starters into the third quarter. Or then again maybe they'll just play a couple series and rest for Buff. I'm done trying to figure out what Haley's plan for the preseason.

Celtks 40 pts

Runs around in circles frenetically looking up at the sky! The Chiefs are doomed this year. The preseason proved it. We are horrible, so sell your tickets now.

(I just went to work for 810 Sports.)

KC MikeG 319 pts

Celtks

Exactly! Preseason is such an accurate indicator of regular season success. If your selling I'm buying!