Where Credit Is Due? (Shudder)

by Chiefs

Herm Edwards' #1 skill: the fake hard-laugh (source: pongalong.com)

I despise former Chiefs coach Herm Edwards.  Still.  I don’t think about him every day like I once did, but barring something extreme (divorce, someone killing my dog or cancelling Game Of Thrones) he’ll go down as my most hated person of all time.  I’m sure some of you think I should let it go.  To you I say……things that aren’t appropriate to publish on this site.

I’m in a bit of a bind here.  I like to think of myself as a man who gives credit where credit is due.  We all probably like to think of ourselves that way.  But the measure of that quality isn’t based on whether you can praise a man you love.  For instance, I love Captain D.  I think his fish planks and hush puppies are delicious and reasonably priced.  So if I eat there, and I tell you it was good, does that really prove anything?  A far truer test would be to have me judge a meal from Long John Silvers.  I’ve had beef with that place for over 10 years*.

*I won’t tell the whole story here.  The crux of it is, LJS thinks they’re better than me.  Either that or I was prank calling them all the time and they banned me from the store.  One of the two. 

Sorry gang, havin’ a little fish fun there.  The point is, giving those you dislike a fair shake is the true test.  And I dislike Herm Edwards more than I’ve ever disliked anyone.  All this time, whenever anyone has praised him, or even attempted to excuse him, I’ve been there with a curt reminder to never forget what he turned our Chiefs into.  But when I look at my Chiefs now, I can’t help but notice that the cream of our crop was drafted during the Herm era.  As a self-proclaimed reasonable man, am I now obliged to give him a grudging tip-of-the-cap?

find out after the jump:

No, I am not.

Look, I realize some of you don’t like dragging this carcass around anymore.  But I feel like its relevant again.  A lot of people want to give Herm credit here.  Those people need a history lesson (even if it is riddled with anti-Herm bias). 

I think we can all agree he was a legendarily bad coach.  No one is really disputing that anymore.  When clock management is your white whale, its safe to say you’re in over your head as an NFL head coach. 

The case for Herm now stems mainly from the alleged success of the youth movement he “masterminded.”  Hey, I can Uncle Scrooge this all I want (and I will), but I’m not so blind as to refuse to recognize the case to be made.  Herm said these guys would be the foundation of a good team, and they are.  Charles, Hali, Flowers, Bowe, Carr, Dorsey, Albert,Croyle.  They are the rock upon which we built our church, and they were all drafted during the Herm years.  Could it be that all Herm needed was more time? 

Nah.  The guy won two of his last 25 games.  His players were out of shape and undisciplined.  They weren’t being coached well, and had become masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.  The wheels had clearly come off the bus.  You don’t recover from something like that.  Had we given him more time, he would’ve given us more losses.  That much is all but certain. 

But was his plan the right one?  Trickier question.  We need to start with the fact that it didn’t become his plan until he needed to buy himself some time.  People act like Herm wanted to “blow it up”* as soon as he got here, but that isn’t the case.  He never, ever talked about that until things went south.  In fact, after the playoff loss, he said “I hope these guys learned what it takes to win a playoff game.”  Kinda implies he thought they’d be going back to the playoffs, right? 

*The very idea of having to “blow it up” before you can get good again is preposterous.  Did Pioli and Haley do that when they took over?  No, thank God.  They kept what was worth keeping and tried to add to it.  You don’t have to start from scratch.  Ever.  If I took over as president of Sudan tomorrow I bet I could find some people in their government worth hanging onto. 

When things got really bad, all of the sudden we started hearing from Herm (and his Beast Nation apologists)  about how he’d wanted to go young for years.  He’d seen this coming all along, of course.  If only we’d listened to him!  Arg!

The guy was an opportunist, and a fairly successful one at that.  He embraced the youth movement because he thought it would give him more time.  It almost worked, too.  Would’ve, if he’d been able to coach even a little bit. 

He’d managed to go behind his supposed close friend’s back and seize control of the team (this after a 4-12 season in which his team totally quit on him!), placing himself in total control when expectations were lowest.  It should’ve been an easy gig.  Then when Carl got cannedresigned, Herm tried to act like he was in on that, too.  He even went to far as to say it was something he and Clark Hunt had talked about and decided together (confirmed as a lie by Clark Hunt almost immediately).  But by that point, the jig was up. 

The success we had last season wasn’t Herm Edwards’ vision coming to fruition.  The man had no vision.  He was motivated purely by self-preservation.  It’s one thing to go young, quite another to use that youth as an excuse for mind-numbing ineptitude. 

The Packers were actually younger than us in 2008, but you never heard Mike MccCarthy use that as an excuse for anything.  And they actually had injuries to deal with, whereas Herm complained constantly about injuries despite the team being remarkably healthy that year.  That and “I’m coaching a college team” were his go-to excuses.  I ask you, when a man has go-to excuses, is he likely to be a football visionary?

2008 was a great draft class.  Herm had 13 picks to work with (thanks to Carl’s falling out with Jared Allen, not any strategy of his own), and he landed some great players.  He also referred derisively to free agency as “helmet-for-hire” and thought the only way to rebuild was to opt out of that aspect of talent acquisition.  He hired Mike Solari to run his offense, and tabbed Brodie Croyle as his QB of the future (coached by the incomparable Dick Curl of course).  He put together the worst defensive line in NFL history, and the worst record in Chiefs history.  He declined a trade for Dorsey that would’ve landed us Sedrick Ellis, a first round pick, and at least another second rounder.   Vision for the future?  Hardly.  This was a drowning man grasping desperately at straws. 

There is plenty of credit to go around for the mini-renaissance that was the 2010 season.  None of it belongs to Herm Edwards. 

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got a voodoo doll to mutilate.

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I am not an Herm advocate, but I have deeper reason to point out. 1. Marty Schottenheimer could be the worst Chiefs coach in history. How do you NOT at least get to the Super Bowl with Montana, Allen, Smith et al? 2. Carl Peterson (and Dick Vermeil) allowed a great o-line age & retire with zero thought as to their replacements. I blame the past 6 or 7 years more squarely on Peterson's shoulders than Edwards'. 3. Desaterous choices in trades & the draft. Peterson again. Brodie Croyle turned out to be the 2nd coming of Todd Blackledge, not Len Dawson. He wasn't even Bill Kenny.

The person that took the time to wrote this I so far off it's ridiculous. The people that agree are followers. Here is the truth of the matter. The chiefs had a good qb and he got hurt playing against cincinatti, the next qb got hurt as well. The chiefs are left with a battered o-line, a third string qb, and a decent receiving threat in Tony gonzales. The defense was playoff ready and held the eventual champion colts fairly well their playoff year, but HAD to get younger. There were somethings that herm could have done better, but the chiefs lost 7 games by a touchdown or less one year. Okay, a point that is tough to argue. Name the best coaches ever... Go ahead... Any era.... Now name their quarterbacks! Great coaches have great quarterbacks. There are only a few exceptions to this rule. So please explain to me how Damon huard, mr. Checkdown, and Brodie croyle, mr. Injury , were really starters more the less difference makers. Tyler Thigpen was ok for emergency relief but Henie nit an NFL starter. so please leave herm Edwards out of the worst coaches talk until you take the personal out of it. Annoyed

I really respect herm myself. I will agree that he was a very, very poor head coach. The one thing he did leave us was a good foundation for our secondary. Big Matt, I think your jumping to conclusions. I have heard the rumors that we could have landed Ellis if we would have traded back to NO, but there hasn't been any viable link(that I have seen anyways). Dorsey was a good pick, and I'd personally still have him over ellis. But, in the end, yes he was an opportunist. I don't really like listening to him on ESPN, but he's like our outlet to get KC on the radio eh?

Okay, I'll tread very lightly here. Herm was a REALLY bad coach. I don't think he's a horrible human being like many seem to and truth be told, I actually kind of like the guy (just NOT as someone who works for the Chiefs). As one of the few around who isn't a member of Herm Haters Incorporated, let me say that I give Herm credit for two things: One, I think he has a legit eye for talent. I thought the Chiefs drafts while he was the coach were the best Carl had since Marty left. I think his philosophy of looking for guys who could play right away in college and look good on game film (as opposed to in shorts at the combine) is actually pretty similar to Pioli whom many Herm Haters approve of. Two, I think the one area he could coach up was the defensive backs. I'm not saying we should hire the guy as our DB coach, but I think Herm helped Flowers and Carr when they started at rookies. Alright, have at me.

Best part is that this idiot is now on ESPN as a football analyst. "And now we go to Sperm *cough* I mean HERM Edwards to learn what not to do as a football coach." Sorry. I know is disrespectful but thats the nickname for him. BM you can delete it if you need to. I hated him from day 1 as our coach.

Herm obvioulsy was a failure with the Chiefs. However, when coaching the Jets, he had some significant success, including losing to the 15 and

1 Steelers after he had them beat in the Division Championship game. His kicker missed a couple very makeable field goals at the end, and he lost in OT.

i agree with u on some points but i think the horrible records the chiefs had cant be rested solely on herms shoulders i think it all started with vermiel and taking chances on long shot talents that never panned out and the fact that willie roaf "abruptly" retired and the fact t rich was lost to free agency was a downward spiral from there on vermiel never built this team for the future just solely for the present and if u want to consistently keep winning like the patriots and steelers u have to draft well herm wasnt good at developing the talent and clock managment but thats all i will fault him for

Right. Losing T-Rich, Roaf, and Shields completely decimated the offensive powerhouse that Vermeil seems to get all the credit for. Everybody also forgets that Vermeil didn't care one bit about the draft, didn't care about developing players, built his offense almost entirely through free agency and let the defense go to complete shit in the process. Maybe that wins you a bunch of games for a season or two, but that's definitely not how you build an NFL dynasty. Herm comes along with Trent Green getting his bell rung and never being the same, then Huard's career is ended, then the Brodie debacle happens (and let's not forget that Haley also fell in love with the guy), until he was left using some guy we stole from the Vikings practice squad. On top of all that, Peterson ran off Jared Allen, LJ broke his foot, and Dwayne Bowe had to step in and play #1 WR his rookie year (and played extremely well in that role incidentally). Also, I also think everybody forgets that Herm lost a lot of really, really close games, especially in his last year. In that respect, he wasn't much different that what Todd Haley did in his first year. It all comes down to this for me, any coach, no matter how successful, is frankly not going to win a bunch of games with the kind of hand that Herm Edwards got dealt. However I still agree, to a point, that his "youth movement" philosophy was correct and that is going to be painful initially. Like pretty much everybody else, I also think he should have had at least some veteran presence and leadership on the team. Am I saying Herm didn't make some stupid mistakes along the way? Of course not but those kind of mistakes are always going to seem a lot bigger than they really should be when you're not winning games - that's just life in the big city.

Wow, Game of Thrones, somehow that passed me. That's rare. About Herm, I agree with you. If the Chiefs were medieval, they'd have him strung up 8 times!(not because of his color, though) Yes! They would tighten the rope around his neck and right as he was out of breath, they'd let his feet touch the ground. Then they would repeat that 6 times and on the 8th time they would not let his feet touch the ground. (I'm not sure if that was too graphic, but I hope it was.)

I had a voodoo doll of Herm about 4 years ago, every morning I find it on the floor with its head stuck up it’s a$$. I couldn’t decide if it was working in reverse so I sent it to ESPN.

I'm in pretty much total agreement with you here. The only other point I would add is to question whether or not these great draftees of his would have been anywhere near the players they are today if Herm had stayed on as coach. To me the answer is obvious, a resounding "NO". One needs to look no farther than the obvious examples of Bowe and Dorsey to see that's the case. The out of shape, undisciplined aspect that you cited of Herm's coaching would have been the continued impetus for a lack of development in all of these players. Haley changed that or we wouldn't be looking at these guys as the foundation blocks of a respectable team. Whether you are biased or not about Herm, you've nailed it in your post here. Good article.

No one was being coached up under Herm, Gunther, Solari and Curl, thats for sure. Herm loves the sound of his own voice, but when it comes down to it he had very little to offer his guys in terms of actual football coaching. His staff was embarrassing, his gameplanning was pathetic, and his grasp of the modern NFL game was tenuous at best. His continued presence would've stunted the growth of those players for sure.

I am not an Herm advocate, but I have deeper reason to point out.
1. Marty Schottenheimer could be the worst Chiefs coach in history. How do you NOT at least get to the Super Bowl with Montana, Allen, Smith et al?
2. Carl Peterson (and Dick Vermeil) allowed a great o-line age & retire with zero thought as to their replacements. I blame the past 6 or 7 years more squarely on Peterson's shoulders than Edwards'.
3. Desaterous choices in trades & the draft. Peterson again. Brodie Croyle turned out to be the 2nd coming of Todd Blackledge, not Len Dawson. He wasn't even Bill Kenny.

The person that took the time to wrote this I so far off it's ridiculous. The people that agree are followers. Here is the truth of the matter. The chiefs had a good qb and he got hurt playing against cincinatti, the next qb got hurt as well. The chiefs are left with a battered o-line, a third string qb, and a decent receiving threat in Tony gonzales. The defense was playoff ready and held the eventual champion colts fairly well their playoff year, but HAD to get younger. There were somethings that herm could have done better, but the chiefs lost 7 games by a touchdown or less one year. Okay, a point that is tough to argue. Name the best coaches ever... Go ahead... Any era.... Now name their quarterbacks! Great coaches have great quarterbacks. There are only a few exceptions to this rule. So please explain to me how Damon huard, mr. Checkdown, and Brodie croyle, mr. Injury , were really starters more the less difference makers. Tyler Thigpen was ok for emergency relief but Henie nit an NFL starter. so please leave herm Edwards out of the worst coaches talk until you take the personal out of it.

Annoyed

I really respect herm myself. I will agree that he was a very, very poor head coach. The one thing he did leave us was a good foundation for our secondary.
Big Matt, I think your jumping to conclusions. I have heard the rumors that we could have landed Ellis if we would have traded back to NO, but there hasn't been any viable link(that I have seen anyways). Dorsey was a good pick, and I'd personally still have him over ellis.
But, in the end, yes he was an opportunist. I don't really like listening to him on ESPN, but he's like our outlet to get KC on the radio eh?

Okay, I'll tread very lightly here. Herm was a REALLY bad coach. I don't think he's a horrible human being like many seem to and truth be told, I actually kind of like the guy (just NOT as someone who works for the Chiefs). As one of the few around who isn't a member of Herm Haters Incorporated, let me say that I give Herm credit for two things:

One, I think he has a legit eye for talent. I thought the Chiefs drafts while he was the coach were the best Carl had since Marty left. I think his philosophy of looking for guys who could play right away in college and look good on game film (as opposed to in shorts at the combine) is actually pretty similar to Pioli whom many Herm Haters approve of.

Two, I think the one area he could coach up was the defensive backs. I'm not saying we should hire the guy as our DB coach, but I think Herm helped Flowers and Carr when they started at rookies.

Alright, have at me.

Best part is that this idiot is now on ESPN as a football analyst.

"And now we go to Sperm *cough* I mean HERM Edwards to learn what not to do as a football coach."

Sorry. I know is disrespectful but thats the nickname for him. BM you can delete it if you need to.

I hated him from day 1 as our coach.

Herm obvioulsy was a failure with the Chiefs. However, when coaching the Jets, he had some significant success, including losing to the 15 and

1 Steelers after he had them beat in the Division Championship game. His kicker missed a couple very makeable field goals at the end, and he lost in OT.

i agree with u on some points but i think the horrible records the chiefs had cant be rested solely on herms shoulders i think it all started with vermiel and taking chances on long shot talents that never panned out and the fact that willie roaf "abruptly" retired and the fact t rich was lost to free agency was a downward spiral from there on vermiel never built this team for the future just solely for the present and if u want to consistently keep winning like the patriots and steelers u have to draft well herm wasnt good at developing the talent and clock managment but thats all i will fault him for

Right. Losing T-Rich, Roaf, and Shields completely decimated the offensive powerhouse that Vermeil seems to get all the credit for. Everybody also forgets that Vermeil didn't care one bit about the draft, didn't care about developing players, built his offense almost entirely through free agency and let the defense go to complete shit in the process. Maybe that wins you a bunch of games for a season or two, but that's definitely not how you build an NFL dynasty.

Herm comes along with Trent Green getting his bell rung and never being the same, then Huard's career is ended, then the Brodie debacle happens (and let's not forget that Haley also fell in love with the guy), until he was left using some guy we stole from the Vikings practice squad.

On top of all that, Peterson ran off Jared Allen, LJ broke his foot, and Dwayne Bowe had to step in and play #1 WR his rookie year (and played extremely well in that role incidentally). Also, I also think everybody forgets that Herm lost a lot of really, really close games, especially in his last year. In that respect, he wasn't much different that what Todd Haley did in his first year. It all comes down to this for me, any coach, no matter how successful, is frankly not going to win a bunch of games with the kind of hand that Herm Edwards got dealt.

However I still agree, to a point, that his "youth movement" philosophy was correct and that is going to be painful initially. Like pretty much everybody else, I also think he should have had at least some veteran presence and leadership on the team. Am I saying Herm didn't make some stupid mistakes along the way? Of course not but those kind of mistakes are always going to seem a lot bigger than they really should be when you're not winning games - that's just life in the big city.

Wow, Game of Thrones, somehow that passed me. That's rare. About Herm, I agree with you. If the Chiefs were medieval, they'd have him strung up 8 times!(not because of his color, though) Yes! They would tighten the rope around his neck and right as he was out of breath, they'd let his feet touch the ground. Then they would repeat that 6 times and on the 8th time they would not let his feet touch the ground. (I'm not sure if that was too graphic, but I hope it was.)

I had a voodoo doll of Herm about 4 years ago, every morning I find it on the floor with its head stuck up it’s a$$. I couldn’t decide if it was working in reverse so I sent it to ESPN.

I'm in pretty much total agreement with you here. The only other point I would add is to question whether or not these great draftees of his would have been anywhere near the players they are today if Herm had stayed on as coach. To me the answer is obvious, a resounding "NO". One needs to look no farther than the obvious examples of Bowe and Dorsey to see that's the case. The out of shape, undisciplined aspect that you cited of Herm's coaching would have been the continued impetus for a lack of development in all of these players. Haley changed that or we wouldn't be looking at these guys as the foundation blocks of a respectable team. Whether you are biased or not about Herm, you've nailed it in your post here. Good article.

No one was being coached up under Herm, Gunther, Solari and Curl, thats for sure.

Herm loves the sound of his own voice, but when it comes down to it he had very little to offer his guys in terms of actual football coaching. His staff was embarrassing, his gameplanning was pathetic, and his grasp of the modern NFL game was tenuous at best. His continued presence would've stunted the growth of those players for sure.