Merlin’s 2008 Chiefs Draft Review
Yo! Adam here, wanting to give Merlin a warm welcome as he joins the Arrowhead Addict staff as a part-time featured contributor. He’ll be chiming in every now and then with his vast football knowledge and representing Chiefs fans and A.A. commenters to the max! Enjoy his first official post…
Before I get into the draft, I want to cover the Jared Allen situation. I love Jared as a player. Building a restaurant in the area made me think he wanted to be a Chief for life. Apparently, that was not the case. We may never know the full story, however, it became clear that he wanted to move on. You do not trade a top tier young player at a premium position lightly. This was not part of the rebuilding, in my opinion. This was a case of getting the best deal you can for a player that didn’t want to be on your team. I don’t blame Carl Peterson. He did get a good deal from Minnesota. Jared got an amazing contract. He had a chance to own the town here and he gave that up. I wish him the best of luck. Money can not buy what the KC fans gave him. I hope he is happy.
Going into the draft, I was looking for 2 O-lineman, A pass rushing DE and at least 1 CB as my upper tier of needs. After that, I was looking for a WR, FB, blocking TE another O-lineman, a return man and a kicker. With pick #5, My strategy was simple. Jake being gone was a pain. However, you have to adapt and adjust. I looked at Glenn Dorsey and Chris Long as my keepers. Ryan, DMC and Gholston were trade bait. I didn’t really want to take any of those three. I figured Chris Long was our best shot. Now, onto to the picks and my reactions/reviews.
1A] Glenn Dorsey (DT) I was surprised he was sitting there at #5. Baring an overwhelming trade offer, this was a no-brainer pick. Even though he does not fill a position of big need, you can’t pass on his talent. He is strong against the run with good explosion. He is a leader.
1B] Brandon Albert (OT/G) Nice to see the trade up to get the guy the Chief’s felt was the next best LT prospect after Jake. Brandon is mobile and versatile. I think he will end up, in time, at LT. Initially, he could start at RG.
2] Brandon Flowers (CB) I was hoping to trade up to get Merling or take Campbell. I like the pick, but I was hoping to fill the DE need here. I have trust in Herm looking at DB’s, but I was a bit surprised. Flowers is a bit undersized and good in run support. He is a classic cover 2 corner. He is not suited for man coverage.
End of day one. My grade for day one: A. It would have been an A+ if we found a pass rushing DE instead of Flowers. I do like Flowers though. I am expecting all three picks to start right away.
Day two strategy…
We still had work to do on the O-line and pass rushing DE. Now, the WR, FB, kicker, blocking TE and returner needs start to come into play, especially in rounds 5, 6 and 7. I am looking for O-line, CB and WR needs in rounds 3 and 4.
3A] Jamaal Charles (RB) What???????????????????? We take a speed back, returner type when we still have so much work to do on both lines? What does this say about LJ and the offensive playbook? I will get back to this. This kid has talent, but I was shocked we went RB this high. I was looking for someone like Anthony Collins or Jeremy Zuttah here.
3B] Brad Cottam (TE) OK, this one at least makes more sense. I would rather wait to get a blocking TE, but at least I can see him getting some PT this year. Good pickup.
3C] DaJuan Morgan (S) Huh????????????????????????? I am not taking issue with his talent. The position choices are really throwing me. We go RB, TE then S with so many other needs??????? Hey guys, where’s the beef???????
4] William Franklin (WR) Nice player and good value here. He can come in and compete for PT.
5] Brandon Carr (CB) Herm Edwards seems to love this guy. That is good enough for me. However, guys??? Do you think you fixed the O-line with one pick? How about the DE position?????
6A] Barry Richardson (OT/G) Finally! He is mobile and could end up at either OT or G. He could use a nasty attitude infusion though.
6B] Kevin Robinson (WR) Well, he fits as a return guy. I am not sure what else we are going to get out of him. Not a bad pick for round 6. I would have preferred a center like Steve Justice here.
7A] Brian Johnston (DE) We certainly waited long enough to address the DE position! Not a bad pick for round 7. He has some potential.
7B] Mike Merritt (TE/G) It is hard to complain about picks in the 7th round. These are real crapshoot picks. I would have liked a kicker or guard like Mackenzy Bernadeau. I don’t understand a second blocking TE.
Second day grade: B- I didn’t get the detours in round 3 and waiting so long for O-lineman and a DE.
Overall grade for the draft: B+. The first day went very well and we got some players with promise in the second day. This is a good draft for rebuilding, but I still worry about both lines.
Analysis:
What have we learned? One thing that jumped out at me is how mobile the O-line picks are. Both could play T or G. Are we going to a zone blocking scheme? We could given these pickups. What does this mean for LJ? I see him as more of a smashmouth runner. He does look good in the open field though. Why so long to draft a DE? This one I don’t understand at all. At the Chief’’s day one press conference Herm mentioned Alfonso Boone at LDE. Although I don’t usually agree with Jabba the Witless, I agree that this does not speak highly of Turk McBride. I am still concerned about both lines. Can the O-line protect the QB and open running lanes? Can we generate a decent pass rush? Who will kick for us? Those are my questions heading out of the draft.
I knew that we wouldn’t take a kicker in the draft after Medlock F’d us up last year. However; I was hoping we could trade one of our 3rds + a 4th or a 5th for an already established decent young kicker. We couldn’t afford a Vinatieri but we could have gotten someone.. Carney isn’t going to be a good kicker, period. I still don’t think Boone will be at the end position, not when he was one of the only consistent DT’s we had last year, throughout the whole season. McBride kind of stepped up at the DT spot at the end of the season, but I still think he should play outside. The safety pick DOES make sense, because we’re going to be either letting go of, or trading, Greg Wesley. He’s wanted out for a couple years now, and I’m not sure when his contract is up, but it has to be looming nearer. Morgan will be a special teams player who will get limited playing time in games that are already decided. I think it’s a good pick, he was in the top 5 on every safety mock that I saw, and we got him late, for being the 2nd-3rd best S in the draft. I think we were going to go after Merling, thinking he would still be there at our pick, but the Dolphins got yet another key player at the start of the 2nd. I would have liked to see a FB, but Herm must think one of the guys we brought in (like the kid from Dallas) is good enough to start, or perhaps he’s looking at Jackie Battle to play FB (he’s big, he runs hard and strong, and he can block. Can’t remember if he caught a pass while he was in, but if he did.. Bam. FB.) The Jamaal Charles pick is nice also, he wasn’t a huge name compared to McFadden and Felix and the rest, but he rushed for 1600 yards and 18 touchdowns last year alone. He also led ALL players in rushing yards in the 4th quarter. We pound LJ all game and then mix it up late in the game. Shabam. I’ve got so much more to say, but this is long already. I’ll leave that for another time. Overall I give us an A. We filled some key holes, and brought in quality depth at others. Remember, we are rebuilding here, noone expects us to go the Super Bowl this year, but we’re setting the foundation so that in 3-4 years, we will be heavyweight contenders in the playoffs. I think this is one solid foundation.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:25 amI think that Glen Dorsey does two things. 1st is that he is a pass rusher. He will be able to put pressure on the QB. I know it’s not the same as a good pass rushing DE, but still, it will give us something we haven’t had in a long time, pressure from the DT. Secondly, by having this huge presence inside, Tamba will now have a lot easier of a time rushing from the outside, especially if they don’t have a TE over there. Then he’ll be 1 on 1!!!! Imagine if Dorsey is just as dominant as he was in college (CROSSES FINGERS). He may get triple teamed!!! Then we’d have both of our DE’s 1 on 1… PRETTY SWEET!!! Having Glen/Tank in the middle is going to be pretty ridiculous… kinda reminds me of a Steve Nash kind of player, just having him out there makes the players around that much better.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:53 amAlso… I’m really angry that we didn’t take Owen Schmitt… He was the FB for almost 3 1000 yard rushers!!!
I think he will be the next Lorenzo Neal/Tony Richardson. It sucks we didn’t pick him up.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:00 amJamaal Charles was a great pick. Did you see our return game last year? On kickoffs, we had less than 20 yards per return!!! (I know that’s skewed a little, cause Turk had 4 for only 40 yards, but still!!!!) We had one of the worst return games in the league, and I’m not really sold on BJ Sams. I think Charles will be a great change of pace back/return guy, and with our return situation, we need as much help as we can get.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:05 amSorry to keep posting, but to answer: “Are we going to a zone blocking scheme?”
Yes. I can’t remember where I’ve seen it, but I’m positive we are switching to a zone blocking scheme, so mobile lineman is a must. I just hope we don’t start cut blocking like those damed donkeys….
April 29th, 2008 at 7:08 amAnd I’m not angry with the Safety pick, but I wish we got a good SS. We need an Adrian Wilson type player. One who can hit and tackle!! Right now we just have Bernard Pollard who’s nickname is “Bonecrusher”…. although he never actually hits or tackles anyone… so it’s a pretty stupid nickname. Oh, and I heard that Cottam is pretty good at blocking, but he’s a risk. I think that’s why we went with Merritt, who, to paraphrase Hermy, when you watch him, you can’t believe how good at blocking he is.
We really rely on that 2nd tight end to get those extra few yards, especially with how crappy our team has been recently. I think that if we go anywhere from 6 wins and up, I won’t htink this season is a waste. I really want Carl out, especially if it was Herm who ran the draft. I think he does a lot better. It seemed like Herm/Bill was answering all of the questions instead of Carl, so I’m gonna hope for the best.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:14 amThe second day of the draft was fantastic! We got some major steals – Charles, who is one of only 5 people to rush for more than 3000 yards at Texas (Earl Campbell, Cedric Benson, Ganja Williams, and Vince Young) was projected to last no longer than the early second and we got him in the 3rd. Morgan was rated as the 37th best player available (meaning he should have also gone early 2nd) and we got him at 82! Cottam is already as good a blocker as Jason Dunn, and has much better speed and hands. And I disagree with you on Turk – unless a rookie defensive lineman is forced into the starting lineup and gets significant playing time that first year (ala Jared Allen) it can take a while to develop d-linemen…Jabba is a fool…saying any draft pick is a bust after only one season is silly.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:34 amJohn, you may want to look at this:
“Charles, who is one of only 5 people to rush for more than 3000 yards at Texas (Earl Campbell, Cedric Benson, Ganja Williams, and Vince Young)”
I’m pretty sure you’re missing out on someone pretty important. Here’s a hint, New Orleans gave up their entire draft to pick him and when he left college he held the NCAA record for most rushing yards in a career.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:54 amOK, this is an awesome discussion, so I want to chime in as well. I see things a bit different than Merlin, but that’s OK. Two questions helped me make sense of the Chiefs Draft: Why did the defense disappear in the 4th quarter? and How will Chan Gailey change the offense?
1st Round: Great. Unanimous success.
2nd Round: We needed a starter at corner, and the DE prospects were pretty overrated (see: Campbell slide and the Jacksonville insane trade up for Harvey). If we wait to the 3rd for a CB, we would have misses most of the top-notch prospects. Flowers was Mayock’s top corner, because he can hit, bump, and play a mean zone. Good instincts…blah, blah…enough said.
3rd Round: Charles is not “just” a running back, he’s a slasher a la Chan’s offenses under the Steelers. Not a full time player, but will score touchdowns. Cottam is the 6th Lineman Chan likes to use in the run game (and he can catch better than Dunn). Morgan is the vote of no-confidence for Wesley (and perhaps McGraw). Remember, Herm rotates 3 safeties to keep people fresh, so he is not a backup. We now have signed a tone of UDFA safeties (like 3 or 4), so I would expect McGraw to be replaced. Morgan also gives Pfiefer a missile in kick coverage.
4th Round: Franklin is a big, fast receiver that can compete at both the slot and on the outside. Chiefs will use 2 best of Darling, Webb, and Franklin to complement Bowe. Good move, and good value.
5th Round: Another sleeper CB (that apparently has not given up a TD in 3 years of play). Good pick, and perhaps Surtain’s replacement in a year or two.
6th Round: Richardson is 1st-2nd round quality if he can get his head on straight. Could start for us this year. A gamble, but worth it in the 6th. Robinson will be our KR/PR. Sams now has very little shot to make the team. Solves the field position problem from last year.
7th Round: A sleeper DE (some have ranked as a 4th-5th round pick), but a part-time pass rusher. Merritt will be a PS player while they teach him to catch, but likely the 7th O-lineman (run blocker).
UDFAs: From what is reported, we have been hitting WR, S, and DL pretty hard, with a couple of O-line prospects. Couple of other nice sleepers at DE (Dingle and Saint-Dic).
Conclusion: If you count our TE’s, we WILL have a line that can run block, and we will have a slasher position for trick plays and home run threats. For the most part, we will still depend on LJ, Bowe, and TG for our production, but with a better WR supporting cast (Kennison and Parker combined for like 200 yards last year).
On defense, we are moving from stars at DE to a rotation. Both DE’s only played adequately against the run. Moving Tamba to Jared’s old spot and using a rotation on the other side will help. We will use DE/DT tweeners in running situations to stand up the right tackle and seal the run lanes, pushing the play to either the MLB or the SLB (DJ). Then, we will sub in a smaller, situational speed rusher to match up on the right tackle (which ought to give them fits). The DT’s, and especially the pass rush, will be better this year with Dorsey, and I expect our best run stopper (Tyler) to be on the field more often. A rotation at both DT and DE, along with an improved secondary, will make our defense more consistent in the 4th quarter.
Viewed in the light of those questions, I think the Chiefs had a really awesome draft. Herm won’t tell you all that ’cause he likes to play coy with the media…
April 29th, 2008 at 8:14 amit seems like most of the complaints from the draft care coming from people who somehow expected the team to be complete after 1 freaking draft; we got great players for the spots they were at; did anyone really think after 1 draft we would have all holes filled and be ready to contend? We have a DE that was a 2nd round pick last year, shouldnt we see how he does?
April 29th, 2008 at 9:16 amChief bartle,
I think you missed it…. Ganja=Ricky.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:35 amAccording to DraftDaddy.com, here’s who we currently have coming in as UDFAs:
QB Ricky Santos, New Hampshire
DT Derek Lokey, Texas
WR Luke Swan, Wisconsin
LB Steve Octavien, Nebraska
FB Mike Cox, Georgia Tech
DL Johnny Dingle, West Virginia
WR Sean Bailey, Georgia
SS SirDarean Adams, Michigan State
WR Brandon Breazell, U.C.L.A.
RB Kalvin McRae, Ohio
S Ron Girault, Rutgers
PK Connor Barth, North Carolina
WR Jabari Arthur, Akron
SS Greg Hay, Toledo
Current try outs are:
DT James McClinton, Kansas
LB Weston Dacus, Arkansas
I’m encouraged by the fact that Chan is bringing in a FB (Mike Cox) that he coached at G-Tech.
Here is the write-up on PK Connor Barth (courtesy nfldraftcountdown.com):
Height: 6-1 | Weight: 192 | 40-Time: 4.95
Official Bio
Strengths:
Decent size. Has plenty of leg. Clutch and handles pressure really well.Can also kickoff.Has developed good accuracy and consistency. Productive. Experienced.
Weaknesses:
Has trouble with the longer attempts. Some of his kicks come out a little low. Had had too many of his attempts blocked. Struggled with accuracy early in his career.
Notes:
Younger brother Casey is also a kicker and walked-on with the Tar Heels. Was a first-team All-American in high school. Was a four-year starter. Holds the Tar Heel record for most field goals made. Deserves a camp invite. Underrated prospect.
——————————————————————————–
Career Statistics
Year GP FGM FGA LG XPM XPA
2004 12 14 18 50 35 37
2005 11 11 21 45 23 23
2006 12 10 10 54 24 26
2007 12 19 22 51 21 23
Totals 47 54 71 54 103 109
Sounds like a guy who might have a future a Chief – whaddya think?
April 29th, 2008 at 10:15 amOther notables -
TE (ex-QB) Blake Powers, Ind has apparently signed with the Chiefs.
April 29th, 2008 at 11:58 amMizzou Safety Pig Brown is also reportedly going to sign with the Chiefs later in the week.
Right now I’m about ready to go try out for kicker myself, so hearing the news about this kicker who set a Tar Heel record sounds like it is heaven-sent. We’ll see about that, though.
April 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pmAs for our defense, if Pat Surtain moves to the Nickel, so we have more speed/youth on the edges, and we have a rotation of Brandon/Brandon/Brackenridge, we’ll be better off in the long run. They will have rookie mistakes, and give up a few big plays now and again. But Pat Surtain did that also, not because he sucks, but because his body can’t take him there fast enough where he wants to go. Get the young guys experience, while we’re still in rebuilding mode, so that in a few years they’ll be beasts, or at least ‘decent’. Also, if we move Donnie to the inside backer position, since he’s lost a step, I think it makes our D that much better. Last year he was an outside backer, and our backers seemed a bit slow at times. This way, our 2 OLB’s are faster, younger, and more athletic, so would be able to stay with the TE’s and slot receivers they have to cover. MLB’s are usually considered leaders on the defense, and if Donnie is there, it’s doubly proven. They will rally around him, and.. yeah. It just needs to happen. DJ and Demorrio/Napoleon on the outside? I can live with that. I still don’t think Boone should be at DE. Ron Edwards is small for a DT, and lost most of his rotation duties last year, and it’s even worse, since we brought in Dorsey, who will command a huge chunk of the rotation. Huge. If Edwards wants to play, he needs to join the DE rotation, as our 7th round pick, Tamba, and Turk are the only ones there at the moment, if you don’t count Boone. Then, should injuries plague us, Edwards can come in and play DT for us as well. Just another veteran who’s versatility will allow us to keep our D strong while our O builds up towards contention. Things are looking up in KC my friends. Maybe not so much this year… But for the future… Wow. I just hope I don’t have to hear alot of ‘omg the chiefs suck so bad!’ Yeah… It’s a rebuilding year, and if you expect us to go 12-4, you’re sadly mistaken and should switch the channel to the PGA Tour next time the game’s on.
I think we just have to wait to see what happens in the upcoming season..Drafting two TE’s with the need we have at o-line. Chan must have something up his sleeve. I love the Charles pick, but why is knowbody giving Kolby Smith any props??? D- BOwe is easily a number ONE reciever, but after the U-tube video, I think he’s going to have serious character issues!! I agree on Pollard too. He’s never BONECRUSHED anyone, and I’ve watched every Chief’s game he’s been in..PAge is another story..
April 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pmWasn’t Benny Sapp doing really well at corner until he got hurt? Am I mistaking him with someone else?
April 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pmFirst off, just wanted to say what a great website this is. I discovered it a few weeks ago, and I have been on here reading like every day. Good stuff.
Anyway, I have to agree with the people posting above about drafting for best available vs needs. I think the Chiefs did the right thing with just about every pick they had. Time will tell if these guys can play, but I really like their best available player strategy.
During the draft on Sunday, I kept waiting for them to take an OL. Then I realized that we have a few years to gel as a team, so we can’t get 4-5 good OL in this draft. Maybe we get 1 or 2, and then get 1 or 2 next year, and 1 or 2 in 2010. Getting the best available player at any position really helps us for the next several years as opposed to trying to be good in 08. That’s not realistic in my opinion.
Excellent draft on paper.
April 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pmthe reason no one is giving kolby smith any props is cuz he isnt very good, didnt he only have like 12 yards against denver last year and they had a horrible run defense. and no benny sapp wasnt doing really well at corner last year, just cuz he had a pick off brett favre doesnt mean anything. brett got hit and threw an underthrown ball, anyone could have picked it off.
but anyway…nice post merlin and congrats on becoming a part of this sites staff
April 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pmMerlin!!!! Dude you will not be questioning the Jamaal Charles and Brandon Flowers picks in a couple of months.
The Chiefs know what they have and do not have with their o-lineman. I think we will surprise a lot of people this year.
Adam, how bout another post draft record prediction. I said 8-8 before the draft and am saying it again. You still think 4-12/5-11, even after the draft? You have to think that we have more talent post draft, right? Three starters in the first three picks. The rest of the guys will play becuase Herm will play them.
Brandon Flowers is going to start for sure. We might even cut Patrick Surtain and his 8/9 million dollar salary if one of the others show promise!
April 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm2008 Depth Chart:
WR-Bowe
WR-Darling
TE-Gonzalez
LT-Albert
LG-Waters
C-Smith
RG-Niswanger
RT-MacIntosh
HB-L. Johnson
FB-Cox
QB-Croyle
LE-Boone
DT-Dorsey
DT-Tyler
RE-Hali
WLB-D. Johnson
MLB-Edwards
SLB-Williams
CB-Surtain
CB-Flowers
FS-Morgan
SS-Pollard
K-Cundiff
P-Colquitt
KR/PR-K. Robinson
Charles, Cottam, Franklin, Carr will all see action. Herb Taylor may also make his way onto the field. Jarrad Page days in KC are numbered.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:37 pmIf this be the case the average age of the offense and defense will 26 years of age.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pmDonovan, pretty good but, depite the buzz, Turk McBride will be the starting end. He did not get much playing time last year behind Allen and Hali. This year is different. You may think I have rose colored glasses but I feel good about that prediction. GO TURK.
I agree, Darling will be #2, with Franklin #3, Webb # 4. I hate to say it but I think Sippio’s days are numbered, the boy can catch but he is not that fast!
I would also substitute Niswanger with Richardson (our new OG).
Huard will be let go, Thigpen to back up Croyle with another new young QB behind him (Total Youth Movement).
If we are rebuilding, let Surtain go too. Give more playing time to the other CBs.
But what do I know! HA HA! I am ready for some Chiefs’ Football!
April 29th, 2008 at 3:55 pmim callin 10-6 THIS YEAR have been for weeks.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pmi dont llike to say i told you so but after the season i will
Jeremy – if you gave me the option of over/under 8-8 I would take the under.
We had a great draft, but unless LJ has an insane year – we will be a cellar dwellar again next year.
Now don’t get me wrong everyone, we have a ton to be excited about – and it will be interesting to see the develpoment of these players.
I just really feel that this next year is where we begin to find our identity.
by the way I want to end this post by asking a question – I am really confused about the WR’s this year – what the %@$^%@ happened to have so many wideouts fall like they did…..I really liked DJ Hall and A. Bowman and niether of them even got drafted….will franklin pan out?….anyways, great draft – lots to be excited about, but lets be realistic, we still have one more long year to go!
April 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pmi was looking at the chiefs schedule andi predict 6-10 with the possibility of going 8-8
April 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pmAgree Ian. I think we’re a 6-10 team with a schedule that could make us 8-8. Jason, love you man, but 10-6? I don’t see it at all. I’ll be glad as hell to say I was wrong though buddy.
April 29th, 2008 at 4:21 pmlook again at the schedule ill break it down how i came to 10-6 later kinda busy right now
April 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pmRight on man.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pmDonovan,
Who’s this Smith guy you have at C? I have to believe that Niswanger will be starting at center with Herb Taylor to his right.
Will Franklin may end up being the #2 WR. Not feeling Darling.
Cottam should also see a lot playing time – especially in 2 TE sets.
Highly doubtful that DeJuan Morgan will be the starting FS in August – Morgan will mostly be a ST guy. Page is not bad, still developing.
Hope this Barth kid can hack it as our new kicker. Cundiff is a gap filler, not the real deal.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:19 pmNeil Armstrong didn’t walk on the moon. It was all filmed on a holywood set…
9/11 was orchistrated by the CIA…
It’s time for…
+++++++++MASTERBLASTER’S CONSPIRACY FILES+++++++++++
duh..duh..duh
Ok, now Herm said that he got the guys that he was targeting all along for second day. That meant, like 1st degree murder, it was premeditated!
Why oh why would Herm do this. Then it struck me like a ton of bricks. He is following my “take a dive” faders strategy. Last year the faders drafted 1st round Jarmarcus Russle cause they sucked so bad. Well, they sat JR all season, once again sucking super bad. They sucked so bad they went ahead of us in the draft. Random suckage? or pure genius? They got another top pick this year in Run DMC. So JR, Run DMC, about a billion dollars in free agent tallent. Blunder or Brilliance? You be the judge.
I submit, that Herm and company selected good backups to our starters so that we would have a similar team next year. I mean other than, Dorsey and Phat Albert. How is our team gona change next year? maybe a little better with Flowers/Carr but thats mostly trading old for new, at least with next year and the learning curve. We still have big holes on our O’line. Brody still sucks. I’m gona say it now. We are planning on going 4-12 again next year. Hopefully, pick up Oher and fill the rest of our O-Line holes for a dominant 09/10 season. I’m also convinced that not drafting a QB isn’t part of the above conspiracy theory(which I support btw). It’s just that Herm and Co. don’t know QB’s..or dont build their team around QB’s(which I dont support).
If we are gunning for Oher, next year, that means Tebow is out. And I dont see us picking up an extra first rounder to get him. Unless maybe we trade LJ or TG. Both of whom are geting pretty long in the tooth for a 1st round trade. I just dont think a franchise QB is in the cards. If it was, Herm woulda traded 2 3rd rounders for Brohm. Sat Brohm all next year ah-lah Faders strategy, and kept with the “take a dive” theory.
Anyways, chew on that, let the flaming begin!
April 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pmcome on mb “YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!” remember?
anyway
here it goes::
Week 1 at New England: Loss, but its a lot closer than people expect(good to get the youngans confidence up)
April 29th, 2008 at 6:21 pmWeek 2 Oakland: Win, Fatmarcus and the gang lose a squeaker in KC(LJs dominant break out game to show hes returned to form) remember the 4th and 1 when he blew up Kelly?
Week 3: at Atlanta: The Falcons Oline might have been WORSE than ours last year and no help there PLUS a rookie QB I know adam LOVES this guy and he might be good but not this soon.
Week 4 Denver: We WILL NOT LOSE to this team at home this year, the D has fallen off and their WRs are VERY suspect.
Week 5 at Carolina: Loss on the road early in the season we have a let down game(actually its kinda a toss up between losing in week 5 and losing in week 7 Carolina wins out because its a road game)
Week 7 Tennessee: Win Vince got NO WR help and our run d Will be vastly improved this year.also coming off the bye will get us on the right track
Week 8 at New York Jets: Loss The money spent in free agency will pay off in this game.
Week 9 Tampa Bay: Loss this team is just better than us right now
Week 10 at San Diego: Loss they just have our number on the road
Week 11 New Orleans: Win we rebound at home when the beast blows up all the injured linebackers that NO signed this offseason. And our defense is just hitting its stride
Week 12 Buffalo: Win teams are a toss up home team wins
Week 13 at Oakland:Win Same as the first game we give the season sweep back
Week 14 at Denver:Loss Do we EVER win in Denver?
Week 15 San Diego : Win By this point in the season LT is worn down without the breathers given by Turner and the crowd pulls this one out for the CHIEFS, plus Rivers is a little kid who DOES NOT play well at arrowhead
Week 16 Miami: Win Do I REALLY need to explain?
Week 17 at Cincinnati: Win With all the infighting on the team Marvin is on his way out the door and with Chiefs in the thick of the playoff hunt we put a whoopin on the BEENGALS
SO there it is sorry for the LOOOOng post
There it is 7-1 at home and 3-5 on the road sounds like a young up and coming team to me. They win at home and lose on the road plus after the good start the fans are out in abundance to give OUR CHIEFS the home field advantage that they are used to.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:24 pmOH and doubled smith is a free agent we signed a couple of weeks ago whos played tackle but we’re thinking center with him
April 29th, 2008 at 6:25 pmi met Calais Campbell at denver in the espn zone when he was gettin ready to get drafted , HUGE but pretty nice guy, i told him we would love to see u in kc
April 29th, 2008 at 7:33 pmJason, love the optimism, but I would be happy with a 6-10 record. We are too young at this point to have a winning season. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVED THIS YEAR’S DRAFT!!!! Next year look out. IF our youngsters step up better than expected than I am sure we could muster an 8-8. As for you reason we lose at San Diego…..DID YOU WATCH THE GAME PLAYED HERE IN SD LAST YEAR???????????? WE W O N!! They split with us last year beating us at home. I think we split again with them, but this time each team wins at home. Watch out for the faders. They spent a lot and we might pay for it. Be prepared to be looking up at them and down on the Donkeys. Next year we might be battling the faders for the division. I am a fan of LT in SD and have been saying for about 5 years, when he gets a serious injury, he WILL BE injury prone the rest of his career. Them getting rid of Turner hurts them like you wouldn’t believe. They start to slide this year due to stars falling like leaves on a Kansas autumn day!
April 29th, 2008 at 7:33 pmguys:
Love all the comments. I like the players we took, but I don’t think we did enough with the O-line and DE positions. In a draft it is very, very hard to get everything you want. I do expect to see Dorsey, Albert and Flowers in the starting lineup in Sept. They players we got in round 3 do not really address our central needs. They may be fine players, but they are not going to help us rush the passer or run block (except for Cottam. This draft helps us alot, but it doesn’t solve all of our needs.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:41 pmI hope we don’t go 8-8, and I think my reasons are valid. We need to suck this year. We need the better picks in upcoming draft(s) to get better, brighter stars. How long have the Chiefs held anywhere from 15-25th picks in the draft? We always seemed to be in the playoff hunt, but always seemed to fall short, or just reach them, and get knocked out in the first round. We need to lay low for a couple years, stockpile our picks, trade away our older veterans who want out (cough, Greg Wesley.) and just keep racking up these badass drafts baby. I understand the JUST WIN! policy, but Jesus H. Christ, I can’t handle another 10 years of mediocrity. I want a win in the playoffs. I want a 14-2 season. I want something more than we’ve had since the early 90’s. Give me a top 10 pick or give me a Snicker’s, cuz I’ll be waiting awhile for that to happen.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:53 pmAnd merlin, drafts aren’t supposed to be quick-fixes. They lay foundations for a better team in the long run. Free agency is what youre looking for if you want a quick fix. And Herm and Co. don’t wanna go that route just yet.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:55 pmxxxlp:
I never said I was looking for a quick fix. My point is that we still need more players on the o-line and DE. This draft is a big help, but it does not do enough. It will be interesting to see how the players look in minicamp and training camp.
April 29th, 2008 at 7:59 pmWade Smith was a tackle who used to start for Miami but is now battling for center… We picked him up a week or so ago.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:30 pmThe whole, “I play to win” philosophy is all fine and dandy, Jason. But I would much rather be a team that goes 4-12 a few years then wins a few superbowls; than a team that “plays to win” and always finishes 8-8/10-6. What we have been doing the last 30 years or so.
I suggest, we “play to get top 10 draft picks” then we “play to win with top 10 draft picks”. I think we are starting to embrace this philosophy. The only thing that I worry about is that Herm doesnt understand that we need a franchise QB to get to the next level. I think I remeber another Coach that doesnt understand franchise QBs (Marty Schotenheimer cough cough)(spits on floor).
I mean think about this. The same coach that said “there arent any Payton Mannings in this draft” also believes that Broyde Croyle may be the next Derick Anderson. Mull that one over a little. And if Broyde Croyle does turn out to be the next Derick Anderson I will type the “Im a little tea pot short and stout” song 100 times on this site! ha!
April 30th, 2008 at 1:57 amSo, MB, you suggested earlier that Carl took over the draft in the second round so he could draft replacements for TG and LJ and trade them away. Now you are suggesting this was all part of Herm’s clever plan to suck for a couple of years and win a Superbowl. Which one is it, and how many other contradictory theories do you have? I think we’d love to hear them. I’m not entirely sure which one I like better so far. I was crazy enough to believe we drafted the BPA with need being a tie breaker. I don’t think many on here disagree with that. Some would have rather gone more for need, but almost everyone who pays attention gave the chiefs an A, because we got good players, not so so players that fit a need, and your claiming that they somehow are smart enough to have a great draft, and be screwing us over in some way? If they are that smart, I’m happy they are in charge.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:47 ammichael SD you said the EXACT same thing as me on SD this year we split with both teams winning at home also about LT wearing down. also young teams will win at home (especially with our home field advantage) but lose on the road9wich i put into the equation. i know it went the opposite last year but they always seem to get us in sd
April 30th, 2008 at 7:10 amWow!!! I cannot believe what I am reading…. Play for the top ten pick… What? Unreal!
We play to win. We will surprise people this year. 8-8 is plausible. I can see it happening.
I watched every game last year and I will say this: Brodie Croyle looked good when he had time (Help from the o-line). He will progress and get better. He has a good strong arm, he just needs experience to improve his decision making which every young QB needs.
Larry Johnson will bounce back and have a fine year. We will only have two repeat starters on the o-line, so it will look compeletely different. New offenive coordinator, new o-line coach, new o-line players. Chan will improve our offense. Things are looking up. Herm Edwards is playing to win, and Carl Petersen wants to see improvement.
I am angered that here in April some people are wanting a top ten pick for next years’ draft. Freakin ridiculous!
April 30th, 2008 at 10:37 amDraft Picks are a freakin gamble anyway, 50/50 shot at panning out. Play to freakin win always!!!!
April 30th, 2008 at 11:15 amThis is the best “insider” article on the Chiefs out thier re the draft!:
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10805234/1
April 30th, 2008 at 11:27 amJay
The creaking of the gears in your head warms my heart. Carls nefarious strategies and Herms rebuilding plan are not mutually exclusive in this situation. On Carls end, drafting of backups puts preasure on LJ and Tony G. to perform. If they perform, they may be tempting trade bate next year. Think JA trade lite. On Herms end, we drafted good backups if Carl does trade said players. Becuase we drafted backups, and didn’t fill the O-line or QB, we are probably gona have a 4-12 year next year, reguardless of Carls trades after that year.
After JA went, we went into pure rebuilding mode. A fire sale. Everything must go for young tallent. And, we are shooting for a comeback in 09/10 not 08. LJ has 5 seasons on his motor. A good running back usually has about 7ish years in him before the tires start to fall off. Tony G. has put 10 awesome years into this team. But how much does he have left in him? Do you see him in 09 10?
If we went 4-12, traded both LJ and Tony G. for a 1st and 2nd round respectively. Then, went into the 09 draft picking up Tebow and Oher, I would be dancing in the streets. Thats probably waaaay too much to wish for, but someting along those lines isnt entirely out of the question–now that we are in full rebuilding mode.
Oh, and as for the “I was crazy enough to believe we drafted the BPA with need being a tie breaker.” comment. Carl Nicks in the 3rd was a best player available. Oniel Cousins in the 3rd was a best player available. Anthony Collins in the 3rd was a best player available. Dont throw that argument at me unless all the OT’s and for that matter QB’s left on the board were a reach. Which they werent.
And yes, they are smart enoough to have a great 2nd day draft and still screw us over for the 08 season. I never said that the picks were bad. I said the picks should have gone a different direction.
Jeremy, answer me this. Would you rather have a 4-12 season next year, and a playoff season the year after? Or, would you rather have an 8-8 season and a 10-6 season the next year just missing the playoffs? You build an A team first, then you screw down, and play to win. The best way to build an A team, quickly, is to have two or more top tier drafts. You get top tier drafts by going 4-12.
I said it previously, I would much rather be a team that had a few terible seasons and a few superbowl wins than a team that “always plays to win” and finishes between 8-8 and 10-6 all the time. Thats carls philosophy. Be good enough to fill seats.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:11 pmMaster, I always want to go to the playoffs. I never want to be at the bottom of the league.
We had two number ones this year, which is equivalent to two drafts. We picked up a lot of talent, and will start to compete. We can go 8-8 this year and improve beyond that next year. Tebow, is no guarantee to be a Chief or even a good pro!
Play to win now! (If you want to know what the Cheif’s brass were thinking during this draft read the article I posted above).
I see your point Master but respectfully disagree. Win now! We already took a step back last year, and because of the trade basically had two drafts in this year. We will be solid in 09 and compete in 08!
I beleive it!
April 30th, 2008 at 12:21 pmJeremy.. I’m sick of finishing after a first round playoff loss, or just missing the playoffs. I would rather take the route that the Chargers did. They sucked for how long? With a couple of horrid seasons, they stockpiled picks, ended up with LT and Shawn Merriman, who, though I hate to admit it; are in the top 5 of the best in the league. They go into the playoffs yearly now, after they got young extraordinary talent. I’d rather have 08 be another 4-12/5-11 season, and still get a top 10 pick, than be 8-8 and get a 15-20 pick. I understand wanting to win, and believe me, I want us to win also, but I want us to have a winning tradition for a long time, not stay in the mould of “0h, we’ve got a 10-6 record and lose in the first round, or barely miss, and thus get the 20-25th picks. I think this is the better way, after a good long thought about it.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:03 pmJeremy
I would like to comment on your Tebow comment. I agree that all drafted QB’s are a 50/50 prospect. As a matter of fact, my theory is that the top QB has a 50/50 chance of being a franchise and 1 of the next 5 guys down that QB draft class has a 50/50 shot at being a franchise QB. But the veiw that “lets not select a QB, because he is a 50/50 shot, is geting tiresome”. You can’t use that excuse every year, cause your never gona get a franchise QB that way.
If any of you watched me during the first day live draft, you know that I was bleading from the eyes because we wouldnt trade 2 3rds to get Brohm in the lower part of the 2nd. If Brohm turns out to be a monster QB, you guys are NEVER gona hear the end of it from me on here, haha.
The way I see it, there were 3 50/50 shots in this draft. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Brian Brohm. I wouldnt trade Matty Ice for Dorsey. And, I still think Flacco isn’t a chiefs kinda guy, but I think he will shine on the Ravens. I think Brohm was our guy. That stoic, screw down, clutch QB would have been perfect for the chiefs. Oh well. Thats why I look forward to the 09 draft. Tebow is like a more mobile Brian Brohm with a better arm. Sure he is a 50/50, too. But, we have to roll the dice some time. And remeber, even if we do get a QB, we will probably sit him for a year. So Tebow in 2010?
I think the Green Bay Pakers did it right with QBs. If you gota take a 50/50 shot on a franchise QB, why not pick 2? Thats what they did with Aaron Rodgers and Brian Brohm. Hell, they even picked up another QB in the 7th, Flinn something, for flavor. And, if Farve is any indication, I think Green Bay knows how to go about sellecting a franchise QB.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:37 pmGreen bay did not select brett favre…the falcons did. but i understand what you mean.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:01 pmMB-
You will learn soon enough that anytime you put “conspiracy” or “theory” anywhere near each other…this is what you get. I like some of your ideas tho.
Take it easy on MB the rest of you guys…he’s one of the few with an original thought in his head around here. I want the Chiefs to win too, but there is no point in continually going 8-8 each year…or 10-6 or whathaveyou.
We have to manipulate the system, and unfortunately for us…the system is a two-headed monster that is Free Agency and the college draft picks. Obviously we aren’t spending FA money, so why is it not possible that we are planing on manipulating the draft. Anyone that denies conspiracy needs only to check out the prices on the signs in front of gas stations, which are 80% higher since our buddy Bush took office.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pmWanting the team to go ahead and lose the last couple of games, because they were out of the playoffs anyways is one thing, but wanting them to tank again next year for more high picks is pathetic and disgusting.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:15 pmMasterBlaster:
They should have picked you over Mel Gibson to star in the movie “Conspiracy”. He was just acting; you really believe this stuff! So you would have been type cast.
Just remember, in real life: “All other things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the best”. Your theory is just way too complex and convoluted.
Also, if you go back to what the Chiefs’ Director of College Scouting (Cook) and other Chiefs representatives said several months ago (see KC Star articles), here is what their off season priorities were:
#1: OT and CB;
#2: Rest of offensive line, RB (for depth, because you can never have too many as last season demonstrated), WR, LB and blocking TE.
They also said they would build primarily through the draft, taking the BPA to the greatest extent possible, supplemented by pre and post-draft younger,2nd-contract FAs.
I submit that so far they have done PRECISELY what they said they were going to do. They got young/2nd contract LB, WR, FBs and numerous OLs during pre-draft FA. The Allen situation may or may not have been a surprise to them, but they turned this “lemon into lemonade” with 3 extra high draft picks. DL was not originally a need, other than replacing Wilkerson, but became one when Allen bolted. Neither was Dorsey’s availability anticipated, but true to their word the Chiefs took the best player available and in so doing strengthened the interior of their DL directly and their pass rush directly and indirectly.
Then they proceeded to address their 2 original top priority needs with their BPAs: OT and CB. Next, they proceeded to address their second priority needs with BPAs: speed RB, blocking TE, speed but not small WR, another CB, another DE and another blocking TE. Along the way they picked up a “torpedo” S/special teamer and a second WR/Return Specialist.
As this is being wrritten, they are signing 20+ undrafted FAs, and the post-draft FA season is just around the corner.
Never, ever did they say they planned to draft a QB.
If what they are doing is a conspiracy, then it is just about the most pre-announced, publicized conspiracy since Hitle wrote “Mein Kampf”, which the world also ignored at the time.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:57 pmI have a problem with the logic that you must go 4-12 and get better draft position to be a play off team again. Where is that written in stone?
Rookie players in high draft spots are no guarantee.
You play to win, and improve every year! That is what the Colts did, that is what the Patriots did, and the Giants were not a stellar team at the end of the season, they came together at the right time and had some luck.
We fight every game and improve every game! That is how it is done. We can go 8-8 and then be better the year after that.
The fact of the matter is we have drafted very poorly over the years. Starting at the end of Marty’s tenur, then Gunthers time (Sylvester Morris) and Vermiel’s draft were terrible.
Herm’s draft’s have been better and we will improve. The top spots gurantee nothing but high risk and high priced contracts.
I respect your opinions but disagree completely!
April 30th, 2008 at 3:24 pmcrane you say youre tired of 8-8 or 10-6 but do you REALLY think well be 4-12 orf 5-11 this and 14-2 NEXT YEAR? or even the next? you have to build up to the awesome record. if we go 10-6 or even 8-8 this year it will give the young kids a little bit of confidence wich is what they really need
April 30th, 2008 at 3:46 pmI think Turk may do well on the strong-side. I like that free agent Lokey as a reserve DT, he is tough and has heart.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:01 pmMB, you make the site fun, if you and crane weren’t around we’d all agree and that would be boring.
I’ve sent a post to adam for fan week and he said it would be up shortly. It should run give a pretty thorough explanation of why I disagree with almost all of your theories.
All that said, I live in St. Louis and have been a cards fan all my life. In 06 fans were bitching that the team sucked and couldn’t win it all so we might as well have a fire sale, get the young guys playing time and build for the future rather than squeak into the playoffs. Luckily LaRussa and the cardinals saw it differently. They had this crazy thought that if you get into the playoffs, you can win it all just by things coming together. Long story short the Cardinals tromped through the playoffs and beat the Detroit tigers in 5 games. Every idiot that said we should lose changed his tune and was just happy we won the series. Also, it was that much sweeter to those of us who never wanted them to give up. This likely explains why I typically look at the bright side of the Chiefs. I get your rationale for wanting them to lose, but I absolutely disagree with it.
Oh, and as for your trying to wiggle out of your contradiction. Here are the two paraphrased statements you made that don’t fit together.
Carl took over the draft in the third round so as to trade away our better players next year.
Herm has had this draft planned for a long time to draft players that will keep us at 4-12.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:34 pmSorry, didn’t wrap that up, if Herm is trying to draft players that will keep us sucking, why did he take the best DLineman hands down, a guard some considered to be the best O-lineman, a corner that some considered to be the best, and a safety that some considered to be the best. By all accounts that is how you improve a team. If you think this is how you lose, then you suck at trying to lose. If I ever want to lose something, I guess I won’t call you, but if I want to win something, I’ll ask you to come and teach me to lose, cause then I’ll win. Your intellect is truly dizzying but I think I’m catching on.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pmWe’ve only just missed the playoffs, or made the playoffs and lost in the first round… Oh… almost every year since the late 80’s/early 90’s? It’s getting tiresome. If we make the playoffs I get excited, we lose, I’m bummed for a couple weeks. I’m tired of the roller coaster, where we get close, epically fail, draft late, draft well, but it’s never enough to push us over the hump. And as much as I don’t want to throw a season, I’m all for it. You do get higher end picks that can help us. And yes, you bring up that we did draft poorly PRE-HERM. Since Herm has been here, they’ve done a good job of bringing in talent. You, nor anyone, can deny that. In the last couple years there’s only a handful of players that havn’t made meaningful contributions, and only one player that I recall that absolutely F’d us. Cough Medlock cough cough. And statistically he was the best kicker in the draft. I’m tired of getting excited and being let down. I’d rather lose now, get far stronger, and then make a push in ‘09-’10. I know they’re not going to do it, I know we have players like Tony and Brian and Donnie that we can’t let down, but mark my words if we go through 10 more years of this BS where we either don’t make it, or lose in the 1st round.. I’ll be becoming a Fader Fan.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:12 pmIt makes my head hurt to watch you think Jay. Anyways, tell me the two places I made those “supposed” statments. I don’t think you got em quite right.
First one…Carl took over the draft in the third round so as to trade away our better players next year.
Kinda, I think I said he may have had a hand in the second round picks to focus on good backups so that Tony G. and LJ may be trade bait next year. A total Carl move if you ask me. Saves money.
Second…Herm has had this draft planned for a long time to draft players that will keep us at 4-12.
Kinda, I said that before the draft, herm selected his players, and he got who he wanted on the second day. Thats Herm talking. The players he got are backups and dont fill need. This makes us a similar team next year. I’ll explain that in the next post.
Interesting comments, John. It’s called Occam’s razor: all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be true. However, this theory works best in a closed system or vaccum. NFL drafting and poker mentality are the exact opposite. Go explain “all things being equal” to ,Al Davis, haha.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:27 pmWhy next years team will be a LOT like this years 4-12 team.
1. Glenn Dorsey/Jarred Allen: Basicly this was a swap. Dorsey is gona have to get 15 sacks in 2008 just to break even with JA in a 4-12 year. I think Warren Sapp had about 10 sacks his first year. I sense Al Davis is gona Run DMC outside rather than up the middle. Problem solved.
2. Phat Albert: This is our one pure upgrade. Ok, so Brody Croyle is gona get sacked 15 times instead of 55 times. Klinger was actually a good QB till he got sacked 85 times in 2 year. I bet Croyle got beat into a Klinger mentality. Croyle sucks. And like I said, if Coryle ends up being the next Derick Anderson, I will sing “I’m a little tea pot” on here 100 times next season.
3. Flowers/Carr: might be a little bit better than Surtain/Law next year. They have a LOT of growing to do. Growing flowers (snicker)
4. Charles/Cottam: backup
5. Franlkin: bolster our WR core a bit. Lots of learning to do. Hez a burner
6. The rest: we might get a return guy in Kevin Robinson
Ok ok. Maybe 5-11. But do you kinda see how we ran to stay in one place? How the team isnt gona be that much different next year? I submit, its gona be a LOT different in 2 years..especially after another great draft. But, if you think next year is (or should be) anything more than a rebuilding year, your smokin the good stuff.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:47 pmYou forgot some wild cards. Chan Gailey, and the fact that several of our starters will be second and third year guys that by all accounts, with some playing time under their belts should be better players.
The reason your head hurts so much is I’m using a time tested tool for arguments, its called logic. You are using speculation, and imagination. Doesn’t make for a very good discussion.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:38 amOpen Thread: Draft Windup post #12
“I don’t know about this second day. It’s almost like Carl wrestled away the gamepad from Herm/Kuharich.”
Merlin’s 2008 Chiefs draft review post #30
“Ok, now Herm said that he got the guys that he was targeting all along for second day. That meant, like 1st degree murder, it was premeditated!”
So Herm pre-determined that Carl would take over the “gamepad” as you put it, and somehow magically got Carl to pick everything he wanted on day two.”
And if you are going to trust Herm on what he says about day two of the draft, why don’t you trust him on “Play to win the game.” Or pick the best player available. This is what conspiracy theorists do, they pick and choose statements to formulate a ridiculous argument, with very little logic involved. Again, its a hoot to read these things, but I think you’ll find that we are an 8-8 team this year at least. I forgot to put another wild card in there, we have the fifth worst strength of schedule this year. While that may change some, its a good place to start.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:48 amYou probably didn’t think I’d actually go back and do my homework, but unlike you, I don’t just pull this crap off the top of my head.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:49 amMB:
1. First, my apologies to the very late William of Ockham, 14th century English logician and Franciscan friar, the originator of the Principle of Ockham’s (Occam’s Razor). I credited his principle in a comment in a previous thread, but failed to do so again here.
2. I would never try to explain anything to Al Davis! He is hopeless–you are not; you seem smart, just wrong in this instance.
3. I made good use of Occam’s Razor during my business career, hardly a closed system–good enough use that I was able to retire @ age 51. Logic is just as useful in open as in closed systems; in open systems it is just more difficult.
4. I do agree with you that the Chiefs’ are likely to be drafting pretty high again in 2009–not because of some 2008 draft conspiracy or plan not to play to win. The explanation most consistent with the Principle of Occam’s Razor is that when NFL teams get as old and have as manny holes as the Chiefs last year, it just takes time to fill all the holes with talented players and for those players to raise their level of play AS A TEAM to NFL champioship calibre. For my part, I have changed my focus for the next 2 years from the ultimate destination to the journey toward it.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:48 amARGH!!! You guys are killing me!! All I can say is, the Chiefs will be better this year (I know it), and I hope they make all of you eat your own words!!
xxxlp don’t tell me you are going to be a Faider Fan, it breaks my heart.
Just remember this:
“WE PLAY TO WIN!” (by Herm Edwards)
“WE DON’T PLAY TO TANK” (by Jeremy (Riverside, CA)
May 1st, 2008 at 11:01 amalso remember 10-6 in 2008
May 1st, 2008 at 11:35 amAll I’m asking for is to make it to the Championship game one time in the next 10 years. Not even the SB, although if we do make it that far, I’ll be writing on here how much money I’m betting, because that WILL be our year to win the Super Bowl.. I can’t take much more of this “YES! We made the playoffs!” Fast forward one week: “Oh my God, we just got bent over the table by the Colts and got worked.” Please Carl/Herm, aka ‘Cerm’, lead us to the promised land or GTFO.
May 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pmI’ll guess I’ll go ahead and jump in here and add a couple of thoughts about where I see this team going this coming season.
First off, I agree with those who say that rookies normally take a little bit of time (2 to 3 years typical) before they start playing really quality ball. However, I believe a critical exception to that rule of thumb is special teams. Rookies very often can make a significant impact to that part of the game. Few teams had as a bad of special teams as did the Chiefs last year and field position was a major problem for us because it significantly hampers what an offense (and defense as well) can do in terms of play-calling.
Based on who they acquired on day 2, I honestly believe the Chiefs made excellent selections for improving special and I think/hope it will show immediate rewards on special teams play this coming season. If I’m right, that is huge and alone could win us an extra or two all other things being equal.
Secondly, even with the loss of Jared Allen, I’m leaning towards believing that this defense will be an improvement over what we saw last year. I say that as somebody who thinks our defense was pretty good already and would have been better a lot better, statistically at least, where it not for the fact that offense couldn’t score points in the first (or second) half and so everybody in the league simply ground it out against them in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Pretty hard to rack up defensive stats under those kind of circumstances.
Anyway, back to my point about this defense now being better. I maintain that Tambi Hali was a major part of Jared Allen’s success last because of Hali was so effective at applying pressure from the left and thus driving QBs into Jared. Hali did so even with TEs blocking him and virtually no pressure from inside. With Dorsey now at DT, we get a guy who can both rush the QB and stuff the run. As I understand it, we will have an experienced, physical DL, Alfonso Boone, playing left DE and Hali replacing Allen at right DE. On top of that, we now have a young, talented cover 2 guy to take over for Ty Law. The LB core is also being repositioned to take better advantage of their various combinations of speed and experience. As I size all this up, I actually envision a better overall defense and I won’t at all be surprised to see cumulative sack total go up and can totally see Hali getting in excess of 10 sacks just by himself.
On offense, I think there is no arguing we’ll have a better OL, better blocking TEs, a healthy LJ, an outstanding change of pace RB in Charles, D Bowe, Tony G, a legitimate deep threat at WR, and what appears to a true lead-blocking FB in Cox. Best of all, we have a proven OC who won’t require on-the-job training. The biggest remaining question mark is QB and for any team that is rooted primarily in the run game, the quality of the QB is more of an afterthought. The main requirement for such QBs is that they control the clock, make high percentage passes when needed, and above all, not turn the ball over – think Drew Bledsoe.
As in any year, all that really remains to be seen is how quickly and how well this team develops the proper chemistry and how well it executes.
Between current talent, the draft, our schedule, and FA acquisitions (current and potentially acquired between now and the start of the season), all considered, I can envision this team ending up anywhere from 4-12 to 12-4. How well they do will depend a lot on quickly (and consistently) they win and when they reach critical mass in terms of believing in themselves.
I don’t expect much this year other than just wanting it to be fun from a fan’s perspective. I want to see exciting football and games where we are in it even if we end up losing. What I don’t ever want to see again is horrible special teams play, lack of running lanes and Brodie taking 3 step drops and getting sacked every other play. Hopefully we’ve at least turned the corner and that’s all behind us now.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pmTech support! I had a monster post that didn’t go through. When I tried to repost it; it said duplicate posts. Am I being sensored? haha
Anyways, Double D, good comments. But remeber, only 5 or 6 of these guys are gona pan out. And, thats based on history and having an AWESOME draft. Which I think we had. So, pick 6 of the players mentioned, of your choice, 86 em, then recalulate that “from 4-12 12-4″ statement. Interesting insights.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pmGood Job Double D!!
MasterBlaster might run barter town, but he doesn’t run Arrowhead Addict! I put a hex on you MB! That is why you’re posts aren’t getting through. Just Kidding!
May 1st, 2008 at 9:04 pmwhat do you guys think about chris leak..he is tryin out for the team..
May 1st, 2008 at 10:20 pmthis is off KFFL….
Chiefs | Leak to get tryout with team
Thu, 1 May 2008 21:01:36 -0700
Jeffrey Flanagan, of the Kansas City Star, reports free-agent QB Chris Leak (Bears) will get a tryout with the Kansas City Chiefs. Head coach Herman Edwards said the team will try him as a quarterback instead of converting him to another position
May 1st, 2008 at 10:21 pmive never really heard anything about this pig brown either…enlighten me please
May 1st, 2008 at 10:35 pmWeek 1 at New England: Tom Brady goes from facing 1 dominant D Line to another as Glenn Dorsey shows what he brings to the Chiefs AND what he can do to O lines, Running Backs and Quarterbacks. Close one… But we’ll take a loss. (When that games going on, it MAY be the booze, but I’ll be cheering like we ARE going to win) … Of to Arrowhead. (0-1)
Week 2 Oakland: Run DMC will grab a a touchdown or 2, but I think our D shuts down the Chokeland Offense. As out 3 main boys on O take care of business. (LJ- 2 TD’s. D Bowe- 1 TD. Gonzo- 1 TD) We WILL NOT GO 0-2! (1-1)
Week 3: at Atlanta: Dorsey dominates. Ryan continues to struggle early in the season. KC steals one in the dirty ATL. (2-1)
Week 4 Denver: THIS Season, the tides have turned. Denver is at the bottom of the AFC West. We win. LJ RUNS WILD! (Champ Bailey will want to be traded after this season.) (3-1)
Week 5 at Carolina: This game will go 1 of 2 ways. Either we kick the crap outta the Panthers or we lose by a field goal in the last seconds…. We arent New England. We lose by a field goal. (3-2)
Week 7 Tennessee: Not this time Vince! Flip these two numbers.. and it’ll tell you the story of the game< 27-72 (27= Larry Johnson. 72= Glenn Dorsey) They take control. Win. (4-2)
Week 8 at New York Jets: As much as I wanna say that we’ll win, cause we’ve lost to these queers 1 TOO MANY times… We lose. The Jets O-Line takes it to our boys… Sadly. (4-3)
Week 9 Tampa Bay: Jeff Garcia meets our linebacking corps. As his mobilty fools no one. Dorsey has a big game too. D.Bowe and Gonzo works the D in the middle of the field. (5-3)
Week 10 at San Diego: Win… Why? Cause Im going to this game… They HAVE to win… They BETTER win! (6-3)
Week 11 New Orleans: Our O-Line kills it. As this is the game that our O-Line becomes a cohesive unit. With their work, LJ has another HUGE game. 3 TDs. Win in KC. (7-3)
Week 12 Buffalo: This one will be close. But LJ yet AGAIN runs over another D…Our FB needs to have a big game in this one, needing to take out guys like Kawika Mitchell and Marcus Stroud, in order for us to stick in this one. We lose. (7-4)
Week 13 at Oakland: We’ll win… C’mon. They’ve beat us ONCE in 5 years… Enough said. (8-4)
Week 14 at Denver: “Loss Do we EVER win in Denver?” (8-5)
Week 15 San Diego : Loss. LT is shut down by our D-Lone and Derrick Johnson taking his ass out behind the line of scrimmage at least 3 times. Norv Turner gives up on LT and heads to the air. Rivers throws 2 TDs all game, and from there its a kicking match. They eek us out. After the game, though SD wins, LT lashes out at the post-game press conference. (8-6)
Week 16 Miami: ACTUALLY, a really close game. Ronnie Brown vs Larry Johnson… For reals? We win. (9-6)
Week 17 at Cincinnati: Now, here we are again. Playing Cincy the final game of the season… Last time we played them in Week 17 of the ‘05 season, didnt we kill these guys like 30 something to 10 or whatever? LJ ran wild on these cats. I see LJ going off again. And their team hasnt changed much since then. If anything they got worse… PLUS, at this point, we’re trying to get a playoff spot. Chiefs win the finale and hope for some help to make it in. (10-6)
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:54 amIm pretty bored, if you cant tell. And as my boy Dave would say, “burning that late night fuel”….
2008 Depth Chart:
WR-Bowe
WR-Webb
TE-Gonzalez
LT-Albert
LG-Waters
C-Niswanger
RG-Richardson
RT-McIntosh
HB-L. Johnson
FB-Cox
QB-Croyle
LE-McBride
DT-Dorsey
DT-Tyler
RE-Hali
WLB-D. Johnson
MLB-Edwards
SLB-N. Harris
CB-Surtain
CB-Flowers
FS-Morgan
SS-Pollard
K-Cundiff
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 amP-Colquitt
KR/PR-K. Robinson
WTF…why wont my long post get posted?
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 amMB, Its probably such a phenomenal argument to support your case that no one would ever need to read the site again, they will have found chiefs fan nirvana. AA couldn’t possibly let that happen because they must have the advertising dollars. Get out the tin foil and coat hangers!
May 2nd, 2008 at 6:44 amdamn ROC what did you do switch maybe ONE of my predictions?
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:26 amROC –
I think it’s highly doubtful that Richardson will come in as a starter. More likely will be from among Taylor, Svitek, Alibi, Smith, Jones, Stallings – guys like that. For now, I see Richardson, much like Merritt at TE, being used to spell starters and also come in in situations where we are trying to eat up clock with the run.
(Even though I can’t stand Mizzou) I’d love to see Franklin win out as the #2 WR – we’ll just have to wait and see on that I guess.
Last I heard, left DE is Boone’s job to lose – if that’s case, I really can’t see McBride challenging him for that spot just yet. There should some competition for the other DT slot but if I had to guess right now, I’d say it’s probably going to be Tyler. I also think that Edwards is currently slated for WLB and Johnson for SLB. Hard to speculate on who will end up at MLB – I imagine there will be some healthy competition for that slot – not a bad thing.
I think Page is a pretty decent player considering he’s only played what, 2 seasons?, & is still developing – I fully expect him to stay the starter at FS. I also tend to think that McGraw will be the #2 FS and that Morgan provide some needed depth at SS plus share back-up duties at FS. I mainly look for Morgan to make his biggest impact on ST this season.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:59 amMB:
Another conspiracy; clearly you are being censored! Even the very late William of Ockham would have to agree that this is the simplest explanation.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:55 amJay,
Your fall back position is logic? Somewhere, Spock is cringing. Thanks for digging up those statements, though. Lets play with “logic” a little bit, shall we.
1. “I don’t know about this second day. It’s almost like Carl wrestled away the gamepad from Herm/Kuharich.”
Never sais “when” Herm wrestled the gamepad away from Herm/Kunarich
2. “Ok, now Herm said that he got the guys that he was targeting all along for second day. That meant, like 1st degree murder, it was premeditated!”
Right, Herm wanted these guys before day two started. Carl could have exerted his influence over these picks weeks ago. Your symantics argument is flawed. Quit playing with “logic”, your gona hurt yourself. Haha.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 amJohn,
Open system use, of Occams razor, is NOT Occams razor. You can’t just throw out the first part of the principal “all things being equal”. Congradulations on your success in business. Business is extremely complex. The razor does not apply. You found the simplest explanation for something, and went with it. You were probably successful because the other guy was practicing another principal of mine “KISS”….”Keep it Simple Stupid”. Human interaction and business dealings are extremely complex. What you did is “saw the angles”. That is a probability calculation. And, works in a lot of situations.
But anyways, use your probability calculation on this. The three 3rd round picks were backups and best players available. There were easily three 3rd round picks that filled need and were best players available. Why go with the former?
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 amThere we go. I chopped it up and it worked. Weierd. I’ve typed longer comments than that and they went.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 amHow ’bout we talk less about shaving and more about football?
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pmI wonder what kind of shaving cream Dorsey uses. Probably motor oil and a lawnmower blade.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pmJason… Don’ flatter yourself bro. I wasnt trying to diss what your perdictions were. I was simply stating MY opinion on the matter… I can do that right? I think so… Plus I was a little buzzed and bored. So pardon me.
Anyway, on to a more relevant comment.
Double D. I typed in Richardson in as RG cause I would like to see the guy prosper. I would ALSO like to see Alibi step up.
Next I see Donnie Edwards moving to MLB. He is one of the most intelligent and game knowleged player in the NFL. We need to let loose of DJ so he can run wild. And Nap Harris is the one with the job to lose to DeMorrio Williams.
Page is good, but DaJaun Morgan is great!
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:16 pmMB:
1. KISS and the Principle of Parsimony (just another name for “shaving”) are the same thing! Out of respect for Double D and others, I will speak no more of “shaving”. You do assume an awful lot with virtually no factual info about me and my business career to conclude what I did and did not do! And, bottom line, that’s your main problem. You are willing to build “air castles” without a factual foundation.
2. Now back to football and some “facts”. In the second paragraph of comment 84 above, you make some assertions completly devoid of factual support. Moreover, they are clearly contradicted by Chiefs’ VP of Player Personnel Bill Kuharich in his post-draft, 4/30 podcast interview by Soren Petro. (Check it out on the Chiefs’ website.) Here is my Readers’ Digest summary. First, Soren asked Bill whether they had considered moving up into the bottom of Round 2 to take either QB Joe Flacco or Brian Brohm. Bill replied that they discussed it briefly, but that the draft had unfolded in a somewhat surprising way to them with a number of players falling they had rated highly. So they knew they were going to be able to get some very good players in Round 3 and did not want to have to give any of those or other picks up. Then, when discussing the Round 3 picks, Soren asked Bill directly why they did not draft any more OLs in Round 3, since that was such a need and since many thought there were good OLs available. Bill’s reply was that as they continued to re-stack their board to reflect the players that were falling to them, there were no OLs left of comparable value to their 3 picks. Listen to Bill’s player-by-player descriptions, why they picked them and how they can help the Chiefs, both now and later.
Now, MB, either you believe your board, based upon what–the same mock draft sites and blogs available to the rest of us fans?-is superior to the Chiefs’ board, which they spent over 2 years and hundreds of thousands maybe millions of $ developing, OR you believe they should have gone NEED over clear-cut (to them) BPA. Which is it? The first is a question of strength of factual foundation, which you have already demonstrated you devalue. The rest is a question of draft/team rebuilding philosophy, which I, and I suspect a number of others, would be quite willing to debate with you.
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:16 pmroc thats cool just had alot of shit about the 10-6 and took it like you were saying i was wrong and trying to show me up, sorry about how i came off
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:52 pmAccording to Bill Kuharich from 4/30 podcast, The Chiefs see Richardson as a ROT.
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:07 pmIt wasn’t relevant to my argument, but feel free to let me know what you did for a living. Kinda curious actually. You present compelling arguments.
We know, that in draft week, 99.5% of what we hear is deception. How can anyone truely base a concrete argument on any of it? Yours is speculation. Mine is speculation. The only ones that truely know are Carl/Herm/Kunarch. And, they arent going to tell us that they strategicly drafted this year to maximise a good draft next year.
I have a B.S. in Psychology, a J.D., and a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineering Degree. These days I play poker semi-professionally. And, basicly, the draft is one big poker game. You can’t use parsomony/KISS in poker, to great effect, for one simple reason. Deception. The first part of the shaving theory states, “all things being equal”. That implies a simple system. That all variables are mostly accounted for. Deception blows that out of the water. Deception makes it a complex system and “all things are NOT equal”.
Ok, next, the first part of statment 2. Great info, btw, I havent read that. But, drafting Brohm or Flacco is tertiary to my question in 84. Sure, I wanted to trade up for Brohm, but im thinking that herm isnt even conceptualizing a franchise Quarterback with his run based offense. Im afraid, we are going to go back to the Christian Akoye era of boring push forward 50 yards…push back 50 yards…push forward 50 yards, rinse and repeat. Another thing that I have been mulling over is that, I remeber hearing, during the draft, that Green Bay tried to trade up for Brohm before he dropped in their lap. It is possible we tried, and couldnt get a trading partner. That will never be known.
All right, the second part of 2. Basicly Kunarch is saying Charles, Cottam, and Morgan are better than Collins, Cousins, Nicks. There is what Bill thinks, what bill says, what you think, and what I think. We could go round and round on this point. But, I think we should save it for a year or two and see how these 6 perform. That would be a much better measure of what Bill “really probably thought.” Your 3 need to perform better than my 3 to win. My 3 have to perform better or equal to your 3 to win. Equal because, if they are all 6 equal, they should have taken BPA and need v. just BPA. I win and my conspiracy theory looks more promising. Muahahaah.
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 amMB:
Good quals.! Where do or did you practice law? On this end, B.S. in Economics (which always stipulates “all other things being equal” but still gets applied in real world, open systems), M.B.A. with Distintiction from Harvard Business School, former management consultant (9 yrs) with the leading, global consulting firm and Chief Operating Officer of a publicly held medical device company that delivered a 15%+ compound annual rate of return to its shareholders over the 17 years I was there. Don’t play poker or buy lottery tickets, BUT I DID STAY AT A HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS LAST NIGHT!
The point of both parts of the podcast was that the Chiefs in the draft room felt that such good players were falling to them in Round 3 that they did not want to trade up (Soren’s question just happened to be about QB)and that during Round 3 there were no OLs on their board as highly rated as the players they took.
You did not answer my final question. Do you believe your board was superior to theirs or do you believe they should have drafted for your version of their NEED over their board BPAs in Round 3?
Don’t dodge the question by trying to take refuge in another conspiracy theory or that we have to wait 2 or 3 years to see how your 3 and their 3 players actually perform. No one, other than Monday morning QBs, ever has the benefit of future info when making today’s decisions.
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:57 amNice work John, you got to the essence of what I was trying to get to. MB, you make all sorts of random statements, and I can believe you have a JD because you speak in circles trying to confuse the issue. Answer John’s question.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:05 amBy all accounts both of you are intelligent men that both share a love of the Kansas City Chiefs, so I declare a cease-fire and put your arguments aside, let’s get excited about this season gentlemen. Our O-line is better, our WR depth is better, our TE blocking has gotten better, our RB depth is better, our D-line is ~the same, unless Tank and Turk step up, in which case; it’s better as well. Our LB’s have gotten both younger and faster, with the addition of Williams, and our CB’s, while probably not being better, WILL be better than Surtain/Law were for us these last couple season, and our safeties have gotten better. Our return game has gotten better, with not one, but 2-3 plausible returners in the mix, which is 2-3 more than we had last year. Cough Eddie Drummond’s a little girl, cough cough. Sorry, my throat.. Anyway, there’s plenty to be excited about (Although I hope we get high drafts picks next year as well, to further augment our team with youth and badass-ness) so let’s pull a hippie stunt and join eachother in sending waves of good vibes crashing into the Chief’s as they attend off-season workouts. Voila. I should be sent to the Middle East.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:13 amMB you just made yourself out to be a damn fool. You claim that it never mentions when Carl took the gamepad away. You outline the three third round picks directly after the quote, with the first two of those picks you wrote “Carl wants,” and “Carl sees.” I’m done arguing with you because you don’t play by the rules, you twist everything and I imagine you win a lot of arguments with children by confusing them, but it doesn’t work here. If you are not in politics you should throw your hat in, you remind me of the Clintons, always moving the goal posts. Either way you’re working way too hard to explain a damn good draft. Teams that draft good players win, the chiefs are on the road to winning. I put your whole post below so you can’t wiggle out of it.
“I don’t know about this second day. It’s almost like Carl wrestled away the gamepad from Herm/Kuharich. I mean think about this…
1-3rd Jamaal Charles: Carl wants to put preasure on Lary Johnson to perform next year. Herm is gona run Johnson into the Ground, but get good numbers next year. With good numbers, Carl has potential trade bate in Johnson, or an insurance policy if Herm breaks him.
2-3rd Brad Cottam: Carl sees definate trade bate in Tony G. as he draws close to the end of his career. Think Montana/Rice, end of career, trade value.
3-3rd DaJuan Morgan: Herm wants to put preasure on Page/Pollard to perform (not a half bad idea), but shows waaaay too much focus on safeties; sacrificing O-Line/QB’s, cause safeties/CB’s is what herm knows.
So, at second glance, these three 3rds seem a lil ominous. They are good picks, just maybe not good picks for us, and our situation. But then again, In herm I trust, he and his staff put a LOT of work into this draft. But, “in herm I trust”, is quickly turning into, “in herm im a little nervous but remain comited to his drafting wisdom”.”
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 amxxxlp:
Just as I felt Double D was right about ceasing “shaving” talk, I think you are right about the need for a cease-fire at this point.
You are now my nominee to negotiate a lasting peace between the Palestinians and Israelis and with the rest of the Axis of Evil (Iran and North Korea). Good luck; look forward to reading your future posts about your progress! We’ll keep you posted on the Chiefs’ progress during your absence.
May 3rd, 2008 at 9:45 amNo. Its all good Jason. I was basically agreeing with you and giving my .02 cents to why we would go 10-6. But yeah. We’re good.
Now, my 10-6 prediction could be a but optimistic, but as my boy ComeSackMyQB would say, “We’re gonna suprise some people this year.”
Big ups to CSMQB!
May 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pmJohn,
I went to Santa Clara Law class of 99, Oxford, Magdalen College exchange program. I specialized in international law. I am not currently practicing.
Pish, Harvard, figures. Haha. No wonder this thread wont die. Oh, and poker isn’t technically gambling, when you know what you are doing. It’s understanding human movements, risk management, and grinding it out.
I believe that we aren’t geting the full story on their boards. I don’t believe that they ranked the 3 OL guys, significantly, lower then the 3 they selected. And, yes, I believe that they should have taken, one of the 3 OL (and the Center Collins in the 5th) to plug “all” the O-line holes. “If”, winning more than 4 or 5 games next year, was their target. I’m not sure how I can be more clear.
Lets break your qeustion down. First part. “Do you believe your board was superior to theirs”. First, thats a loaded question. Second, I dont beleive they are telling us what their “real” board was. Second part. “or do you believe they should have drafted for your version of their NEED over their board BPAs in Round 3?” nice loaded, compound question, BTW. Haha. I believe they would select their 3 if maximizing the 09 draft was the goal. I believe they would select one of my 3 and a center if winning in 08 was the goal.
Jay, It was fun to watch your brain implode, in those last few posts, but im afraid I cant continue to go rounds, as it seems you’ve lost your chit. Haha. That way, madness lies. But it was fun. Lets do it again when I come up with a new conspiracy theory:D
Oh, I have a solution to the Israli/Palastinian question. It’s Coln. Kurtz solution. “Exterminate all the Brutes”. Other than that, no solution.
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:56 pm100th post!
Lets see if this thread dies now. I’m game for 200! haha.
May 3rd, 2008 at 4:57 pmMB, I’m glad to see how copious amounts of schooling in psych and law don’t teach you anything about making a clear and valid argument. All you’ve done is contradict yourself and then claim that I can’t handle your massive intellectual prowess. You’re an ego-maniac, and arguing with someone who belittles anyone who disagrees with them is…is…wait, are you Dick Cheney? It all makes sense now!!!
May 3rd, 2008 at 6:35 pmMB:
1. No flies at all on your quals. Hope you get to use your international law training whenever you choose.
2. I have no problems with poker; just never had the time or the inclination to master it. Just threw in the lottery comment, because I consider it “voluntary” taxation and I pay enough taxes as it is.
3. I don’t think the Chiefs were trying to maximize or minimize their number of 2008 wins. I think they are trying to build a sustainable championship calibre team over a somewhat longer time frame. With that as their goal, they have to take their BPAs. The cumulative 3-5 year difference in overall roster strength of taking their BPAs vs. drafting for the next season’s needs is huge, especially since they are now managing their roster in such a way as to increase their number of draft picks. I know I am getting old enough that my brain is getting all used up (as my youngest informed me nearly a decade ago), but the logic of deliberately drafting, either in whole or in part, to maximize the value of future year picks escapes me or strikes as me as too clever by half.
Otherwise, we just have to agree to disagree and drive on, as I promised xxxlp.
Good luck.
ps With respect to your proposed Middle East solution, perhaps you should stick to poker!
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:29 pmYes, agree to disagree, John.
Agree to have you put on a mild sedative, Jay.
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:51 pmZing! MB strikes again. And proves my point again. Intelligent discourse, nope I’ll just berate the other side because I don’t have a clear point. Olive branch…I’ll agree to disagree with you, if you can refrain from taking a dig in your next response.
May 4th, 2008 at 7:07 amMore info. on Chiefs’ R3 draft debate in KC Star this am. Adam Teicher quotes former Washington and Houston GM Charley Casserly:
“The best thing they did was stay disciplined in the draft…They could have gone and drafted five offensive linemen right off the bat, but if they did that, maybe four of them can’t play. What good does that do for them.
“There was an elite group of offensive linemen in the draft this year. The Chiefs got one of them. That group went faster than anybody thought. So if they would have drafted an offensive in the second round, they would have been getting a third-or fourth-round offensive lineman. They didn’t do that, and they should be commended for that.”
Questions:
1.If only 3rd or 4th round-value OLs were available at pick #35, when the Chiefs drafted CB Flowers (a late R1 value), wonder what value OLs were available in R3 @#73, 76 and 82?–certainly NOT R3 value.
2.What round value did they actually get in R3?–arguably R2 value with at least 2 of their 3 picks–RB Charles and S Morgan.
3.Which approach is more likely to lead to a stronger, rebuilt Chiefs team in 2-3 years?–game, set and match to the Chiefs!
May 6th, 2008 at 7:53 amI Agree 100% John.
May 6th, 2008 at 4:05 pmJay:
Here is more confirmation from one of the better NFL writers-Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News-in his May 6 article grading the 32 team drafts. (He also describes his methodology, which most do not.)
Anyway, he gave the Chiefs the only A+ for 2008, the first A-range grade he has given us in 17 years. More important, he said that according to his 500-player board, developed through his extensive contacts with NFL teams themselves, the Chiefs:
1. Only had 1 minor reach, our R5 pick CB Brandon Carr, to whom he had given an R6 grade; and
2. The Chiefs had 7 picks to whom he had given R3 or higher grades. (Presumably, these 7 are our first 7, through WR Will Franklin in R4.)
“Just the facts ma’am; just the facts.” (Sergeant Joe Friday, Dragnet)
May 6th, 2008 at 5:54 pmi agree with john as well. If there would of been a solid prospect on the oline in the 3rd we should of taken him, but since there wast bpa was the best approach. And i think that charles coming in to spell lj and coming in on 3rd down will do alot for our feeble offense.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:05 pmI’m not sure why anyone is bitching about Bernard Pollard not tackling anyone… he had 90 tackles (74 solo) in the 2007 season. Troy Polamalu has only topped 90 tackles twice in his career, and that guy is EVERYWHERE.
I’m really excited about the Chiefs draft this year. We got so much VALUE in our picks. Brandon Flowers, Jamaal Charles, Barry Richardson, and DaJuan Morgan are all examples of players we probably got steals with.
For anyone worried about any off-field issues or character concerns, don’t. I don’t think Herm would look seriously at any straight up thugs (Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, etc.) and I think he deals well with the “troubled” players that have been selected (haven’t had any problems with Tank Tyler, have we?)
Anyway.. looking forward to this season.
May 10th, 2008 at 9:28 am