The Blueprint 4: Trading Places – The Chiefs Could Control The Draft
There have been three previous installments of “The Blueprint” and throughout the series there has been one constant–the Chiefs can’t trade. This seemed to cause considerable grumbling amongst the fanatical Jake-Long-or-trade-down crowd, but with Jared Allen now almost guaranteed to be shipped prior to the draft the only stipulation for “The Blueprint 4” is that I have to explore trades with plausible partners. I’ll do so using a little bit of common sense, realism, rumors and the draft trade chart. The beauty of this edition is that my main theory still applies here, especially since we will now likely have two first rounders to address major needs. That theory: never reach when drafting in the top ten. Ever. EVER!
Before I get started, when we whipped up this image we thought that the wheeling-and-dealing Jerry Jones and his Cowboys would be the ones to shake up the draft with the team’s two first-round picks. Now, with Allen all but guaranteed to be moved it looks like the Chiefs might shake up the draft more than any other NFL squad.
Here are nine teams I have tabbed as potential trade partners: the Baltimore Ravens, Carolina Panthers, Chicago Bears, Dallas Cowboys, Minnesota Vikings, New England Patriots, New York Jets, Philadelphia Eagles and Tampa Bay Bucaneers. Bloggers from many of these ballclubs will be dropping in with their POV on the situation. From where I’m sitting all of the above-mentioned teams could and might pull off a trade, even after contemplating the considerable costs.
Prior to getting into the hypothetical trade scenarios, I want to rap about the Jared situation a little bit. Chiefs fans seem to be heartbroken over this, but I say screw Jared. That’s right–eff Jared Allen and the horse he rode in on.
Now, I’m not going to defend Carl Peterson’s overall performance as GM–he should have been canned. But I will defend him when it comes to Jared Allen. No GM in his right mind would have given the One Man Gang a contract after he was racking up DUIs like sacks and driving as recklessly off the field as he plays on it. Not one. He had no reason to gripe last year at all, well, maybe about the taste of O’Douls, but not about his contract. When he said he wanted Dwight Freeney money after the DUIs, I honestly laughed out loud. But, he came in, cleaned up his act and had the best season of any defensive end in football.
That being said, it was one year and he was playing for a contract. Who knows if Jared will fly straight for good. After all, his track record of getting in trouble is pretty extensive, dating back to his wild college days at Idaho. What really chaps my ass is despite all his off-the-field issues, Chiefs fans have embraced him more than any other player. Yes, even more than Tony G. (I think J.A. is just more of a K.C. good ol’ boy-type guy). This is how he repays us? I mean, the Chiefs franchised him and gave him Dwight Freeney money even though he is being an absolute pain in the ass to negotiate with. The key to the city, NFL superstar dough, the adulation of the NFL’s best fans–what the hell more does this guy want? He scoffs at all of this and flies off to try and get something done with Zygi Wilf and the Vikes. To hell with you, No. 69. You should be honored by what Kansas City has given you, not disrespecting our gracious hospitality, brother.
The other thing that annoys me is Chiefs fans getting pissed at Carl for the Jared negotiations when they had Carl’s back during the Larry Johnson negotiations. That makes no sense at all, and it is evident you fans are Jared apologists/L.J. haters. Despite what one research-deficient Chiefs fans stated in the comments, L.J.started his career off with the most brilliant first two-and-a-half seasons a running back has ever enjoyed. You can count on one hand the RBs who have enjoyed back-to-back seasons of 2,000-plus all-purpose yards and 19-plus touchdowns, let alone those who started their careers in such prolific fashion. The guy didn’t have one great season, he had two outstanding seasons and two outstanding half-seasons. Plus, he only had one minor off the field incident and didn’t get in any legal or NFL trouble for it. He had all the leverage with Carl, and he deserved every cent he got. Jared’s been great, but not quite as good as L.J. so far in his career. Also, Jared got in major trouble off the field. Carl’s played it right, and Jared shouldn’t have ever had any leverage.
I think we have to move Jared. We’re rebuilding and he doesn’t want to be here, all of that’s obvious, so I say we move him now. His value will never be higher. I doubt he will ever win another sack title, he’s only 26 and who knows if he will ever fall of the wagon and start boozing like Lindsey Lohan on a bender again. He is our most valuable trading chip considering that L.J. is contractually unmovable. I honestly think we have to get a first this year and a second next and move on. If we could score a player like Bryant McKinnie or Lito Sheppard along with a first, then I’d probably let a third or fourth rounder substitute for that second.
Here we go after the jump…
The Jared Allen Teams:
Minnesota Vikings – The Vikings are possibly the most interested team when it comes to No. 69. However, this deal that Dan from The Viking Age has proposed just isn’t enough for the player who was without a doubt the best D-end in football one year ago. At worst, the Vikes will absolutely, positively have to cough up its No. 17 pick this year to get something done.
Are a first and a second too much to give up for Allen? It depends on whether you believe he can really put the Vikes’ defense over-the-top. I’d be leery about going beyond a first and a third. Don’t know how the Chiefs would feel about taking a player in the deal too, maybe Ray Edwards.
Philadelphia Eagles – We’ve talked a lot about Lito Sheppard, a first and a third, and, personally, I would definitely take that and run all the way to the bank laughing. I would definitely want at least a fourth if not a third, though, even if it was a 2009 pick. Ian from Inside the Iggles breaks down a potential Chiefs-Iggles swap:
There are two obstacles for this deal to get done. First the Eagles would have to work out a long term contract with Allen. Being that Allen is still at the young age of 26 I don’t see why there would be a problem here. The Eagles have enough cap space left to buy the Florida Marlins, and should use it on top flight player like Allen. Once they get a deal worked out, they would then have to give up enough compensation to satisfy the Chiefs. The reported asking price is a first and third round pick, but the Eagles can top that. They have something that the Vikings, Buccaneers, and Jaguars don’t have and that is Lito Sheppard.
It’s no secret that Lito Sheppard is also being shopped around by the Eagles, and hos value is guessed to be worth as a 2nd round pick right now. So to get the Allen deal done you trade Kansas City the 19th pick overall in the draft and Lito Sheppard. This trade would really help out both teams in a big way. The Chiefs have a need for a CB and Lito is still one of the better ones in the NFL. Despite having an injury plagued 2007, he did manage to shut down Randy Moss and Terrell Owens last year. The Chiefs also have major offensive line issues, and they could draft one with the 19th pick. Branden Albert, Jeff Otah, or Chris Williams could be available there. KC would also now be able to draft the best defensive lineman available with the 5th pick(Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis), instead of reaching for OT Ryan Clady there. The Eagles would get rid of Sheppard who is unhappy here, and finally get the big time defensive end they have wanted
for yearsforever.The time to act is now though, because Allen may be traded soon. Andy Reid, Tom Heckert, and Joe Banner need to get on the phone with Kansas City, and set up a date to visit Allen before the draft. If they pull this deal off it could send a shock wave throughout Philadelphia full of excitement. Let’s get this done! I am offcially on the Jared Allen bandwagon.
Tampa Bay Bucanneers - Another very likely Jared destination. Dustin from The Pewter Plank proposes a couple of deals. The Chris Simms one is straight garbage, but the other one is a decent offer. I really like Jovan Haye, the No. 20 pick also sounds good and a pick next year would help, given that it is at worst a third rounder. A Gaines Adams-Allen sandwich would be scary, wouldn’t it?
The Vikings obviously have a better pick to offer up (17th) as opposed to our 20th pick, we might have some pieces that could fit in with the Chiefs. I have been saying for months, that we have too many guys on our roster, and we will have to make a move at some point, this might be that time.
Would Greg White, Chris Simms, and a 2nd round pick do it?
What about Jovan Haye, a 1st and a pick next year?
The Matt Ryan Teams:
Baltimore Ravens – With Steve McNair retiring, B-More definitely needs to import a QB into the Charm City. Crane did an excellent job of pointing this and why the Ravens should trade up in the latest edition of Crane Damage. By the way, I think this is actually one of the more likely trade scenarios. I’m also recommending McNair for the HoF. I mean, how many QBs were as tough as he was? How many quarterbacks both led their team to a Super Bowl and won an MVP award? Dude was a great, GREAT football player. End of story.
Chicago Bears – How many years can the Bears really give Rex Grossman? I mean, my God. They have to be interested in Matty Ice, right? Right?
Minnesota Vikings -Are the Vikings really sold on Tavaris Jackson? If we sent Jared elsewhere, they could still potentially have interest in the No. 5 pick.
The Darren McFadden Teams:
Carolina Panthers – This looks like a longshot at best. As desperately as they need a running back, John from Cat Crave doesn’t even mention McFadden below. Puzzling–very. Here he is with the 411:
Rumors. Shumors! So there is a whisper or two that Carolina might be interested in trading up in this year’s draft. From where? Mel Kiper? He’s no road map. Some reporter hack who thinks the Panthers need to trade up to get the best tackle available? Or is it some blogger who hasn’t studied the Panthers long enough and hard enough to understand that they aren’t interested in getting a quarterback in the first round?
I’ll admit that Ryan Clady would be a tremendous addition to this football team. The team would like to move Wharton back inside to play guard so he doesn’t have to play left tackle again. But let’s be honest, this is a deep draft at tackle. It might be the deepest position in this draft and one of the best drafts in recent memory for tackles.
If a trade up occurs all I can see the team doing is moving up a maximum of four spots if a player is falling that they feel they can use. That would include a deal for Carolina’s first and potentially a third (they have one extra thanks to the Kris Jenkins deal with the J-E-T-S SPEND, SPEND, SPEND!). That’s it. That’s simply not enough to move up. And there is little, if any, chance that the Panthers use a pick from next year’s draft to move up either.
This is not a wheeling and dealing team. Fox and Hurney are conservative. In fact, if you look up the word “conservative” in the dictionary, you’ll find their pictures beside the definition.
If I’m placing odds on a trade up involving Carolina, I’d say it’s 30 to 1. Bottom line – it’s not happening.
Chicago Bears - I don’t know how likely this deal really is, but I know the Bears aren’t exactly enthralled by Cedric Benson right now, and Lovie Smith and Co. did meet with McFadden recently. Keep an eye on Da Bears–there’s a slim chance they could move up and snag McFadden.
Dallas Cowboys – After reading up on the ‘Boys and considering the below scoop from Dan over at The Landry Hat, it doesn’t look like we will be dealing with them. While it would be unbelievable to make such a deal and pick up another first rounder for the One Man Gang–that name really makes sense now that he seems to be looking out only for number one, or No. 69 rather–giving us three firsts, we don’t need Bobby Carpenter and the ‘Boys seem intent on keeping those picks.
There is evidence that Jerry Jones may look to trade up to acquire Arkansas running back Darren McFadden. Some of that evidence includes not signing a free agent running back to pair with Marion Barber, giving Arkansas a featured agreement to play the Texas A&M game in the new Cowboys stadium, allowing with out a fight a series of players and coaches to head over to Miami where former head coach Bill Parcells is now general manager, and allowing Julius Jones to leave through free agency, although that move was anticipated.
However, the Cowboys would need to surrender likely both of its late first round picks, and several other picks or players combination, something that should be weighted very heavily against the value of an unproven rookie running back who may have some off-the-field problems.
Cowboys fans are mixed over the McFadden rumors, but I would say a majority believe it may not be prudent to trade up that high if it means losing out on drafting secondary help, which is the Cowboys most-glaring weakness. If the Cowboys could pull off a trade where they sent former first round picks Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter and maybe one of the first round picks, I think some fans would be fine with trading up to draft McFadden. But that scenario is unlikely to occur.
The Cowboys are better suited keeping the picks, continuing to acquire Pacman, and draft a corner and running back or wide receiver with those two first-round picks. In the second round, maybe draft a wide receiver, such as Andre Caldwell, from Florida, and use the remainder of the picks to solidify a future offensive line and secondary.
The Cowboys also may move up slightly in the draft, maybe 5 slots, to acquire the cornerback the team wants.
New York Jets – I doubt the Jets move up one spot to grab Run DMC considering the cost, especially when they know we are highly unlikely to grab him. Then again, if we have an extra first-rounder in the fold and don’t have to pay Jared ,hell, we might be willing to bring in the highly touted ex-Razorback back.
The Chris Long/Vernon Gholsten Team:
New York Jets – I really do actually think the Jets could trade up, and Jason’s upcoming comments confirm that sentiment. It might not be the likeliest of all these scenarios, but it would be the cheapest for the other team involved. Additionally, Mike Tannenbaum has been aggressive of late, Herm does have ties to Dewayne Robertson and King Carl would love to save a few bucks and take the same player. I think this only happens if Ryan or one of the DTs is there and the Jets want McFadden (unlikely, I think) or one of the DEs (much more likely). Also, the Chiefs will have more interest in both DEs if they move Allen, but I also think we know we can get a good defensive end with the extra first rounder we’ll pick up in any such move. As noted below, the trade chart difference is 100 points. The other thing is that the Jets will want to keep the Patriots from trading up ahead of them.
From The J-E-T Press‘ Jason:
While most Jets fans hate the idea of trading up for Arkansas RB Darren McFadden I don’t think any would complain if it were for Virginia DE Chris Long or Ohio State DE/OLB Vernon Gholston…depending on the price. All real NFL draftniks are aware of the value chart player personnel folks have attributed to slots in the draft, so the value to move up from the 1600 point 6th pick to the 1700 point 5th pick is only 100 points. Going by that formula all the Jets need to do is kick in a 4th round pick. I don’t subscribe as much to that value chart this year due to the rising cost to sign the players in those slots so to save a few million bucks maybe a 5th rounder would be enough to complete the swap…or maybe throwing in Dewayne Robertson gets it done. I don’t believe Jets love any player that much that they’d give up anything just to move up one spot and that is why I would say the odds are very low that if the Jets do trade up in this draft it will be with the Chiefs. But…if the last of the guys they want is available at 5 and rumors start swirling a team is going to leapfrog them into the Chiefs’ 5th pick I can see Mike Tannenbaum following his aggressive track record and pulling the trigger. The only way that happens is if one of these players is there in this order: Darren McFadden, Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, or Jake Long.
The Wild Card:
New England Patriots – Simply put, the Pats can afford to make a luxury move like trading up, and have been known to make bold acquisitions and draft-day deals. I can see them moving up and taking Gholsten or McFadden; staying put and rolling with Keith Rivers or Leodis McKelvin; trading down and acquiring more picks; or making a shocker pick. The Pats’ brass is simply unpredictable. My point here is that if we are rebuilding and add DE to our laundry list of needs, wouldn’t picking up more picks be wise? Especially if Dorsey, Long and Ryan are off the board. And the Pats would absolutely frickin’ love to leapfrog the Jets and steal the guy the covet. Those two squads have a Chiefs-Broncos-type thing going on. Speaking of unpredictable…
The Silver and Black Monkey Wrench:
Oakland Raiders – Like it or not, they could hold the key to our situation, at least as far as trading the No. 5 pick goes. Why? Because Al Davis could sniff a trade and get one himself just to keep the Chiefs from getting one done. Also, a lot of people believe that he’s completely enamored with Run DMC. In fact, McFadden just visited the Raiders. The Raiders also like Gholsten and Long, so hypothetically they could keep us from getting one of the two premiere defensive ends at the five spot by selecting one. If Al is torn between the star RB and one of the two DEs, with only one of the two DEs left on the board, don’t assume he wouldn’t take one of the DEs just to keep us from filling Jared’s shoes. I can totally see Mr. Burns rolling with a rhymes-with-sock block like that.
Trading Up?:
The Atlanta Falcons are probably the only possible partner under this scenario. With the Falcons needing a new star worse than Jason Whitlock needs to slow down on the Gates’ ribs, they aren’t going to shop this pick. They need to get their base reengaged. Plus, the Cheaps aren’t going to cough up an extra pick and millions of dollars more to move up. This is just not going to happen.
The Blueprint 4:
Here’s what I’m thinking considering the onslaught of information I just laid out.
A.) We trade Jared Allen to the Vikings
Despite some potential snags, the Vikings need a DE and Zygi will be both willing and able to spend the money and give up the picks. The No. 17 pick and a 2009 second rounder gets this done. Our rebuilding project is well under way, and the Vikings get a new defensive star. He kind of looks like a Viking. Pair him up with the Williams boys, and that defense would be tough. Could Purple Jesus lead that team to the Super Bowl? Anyway, the Vikings need this deal, especially after Kenechi Udeze being diagnosed with Leukemia, and the team whiffing on free agent Justin Smith. They have the best pick to offer and possibly the deepest pockets, too. This makes too much sense not to happen. I also wouldn’t mind taking a flier on McKinnie, a troubled-but-talented tackle who we could get a bargain-basement prices. No. 17, McKinnie and a future third would be fine with me.
B.) Don’t overreact and draft a defensive end
We drafted Turk McBride in the second round for a reason, and it wasn’t to play DT. It was an insurance policy, much like the Larry Johnson pick that preceded it. I have a lot of confidence in Turk at the DE spot, especially the way Gunther Cunningham blitzes his backers. There will be a better player than either Chris Long or Vernon Gholsten available at No. 5, at least in my opinion.
C.) Draft 1. Matt Ryan, 2. Glenn Dorsey or 3. Darren McFadden.
Jake Long is going to be gone. Without having to pay Jared, we can afford to pay a star here. We need to get one of these potential superstars with that prime of a pick. Ellis is also an option, but he isn’t going to be quite as good as any of the above-mentioned players.
D.) Draft Branden Albert, Chris Williams, Jeff Otah or Sam Baker at No. 17.
We get a player almost as good as Jake Long and a superstar at another position at No. 5. Wouldn’t that basically please all Chiefs fans? All of this allows us to take the best player available in round two, a strategy that has worked wonders in the past (see both Johnsons). A wide receiver/return specialist like DeSean Jackson could be sitting there. If we don’t get Ryan, Joe Flacco could be sitting there. We could draft another tackle or a guard. We could even draft someone like RB Jonathan Stewart (going to be a star!) if he slipped because of his toe, i.e. a player who has no business slipping into the second round. There will be lots of good corners there, too.
After considering the Jared Allen situation, what is your new Blueprint? Let us know!
Question: Are we assuming that the Vikes are “the team” on this one? I LOVE the idea of the Iggles trade, but that seems to be lost. I haven’t really heard that much, either, for Tampon Bay. I’m not really crazy about ‘Sota as a trading partner because it’s gonna be next year picks (after the make the playoffs/bust), and it honestly seems that Philly can/will give more.
-cw
April 18th, 2008 at 8:22 amAbsolutely crazy if you think trading Jared Allen is a good idea. If you’re worried about recklessness, install a performance clause. And it’s not like Allen is a one-year wonder. He was a very good, borderline pro bowler in prior years and became a top 5 DE last year.
Here’s why the trade absolutely sucks. #1) we don’t get an extra pick because we likely use our #5 pick to draft Allen’s replacement; #2) also factor in the opportunity cost of being unable to trade down. If we trade to the Vikings at #17, we can no longer trade down with New England, the Jets, or Baltimore.#3) Based on the above two points, we can clearly see that the Chiefs come out of this trade significantly worse at DE and at offensive line than if they don’t trade Allen and instead trade down.
Alternative 1 (trade Allen): Gholston, Chris Williams, second round pick
Alternative 2 (trade down): Keep Allen, draft Brandon Albert, get an additional second round pick
IN the trade-down scenario, we get the better lineman, we keep the superior DE, and we get a 2nd or 3rd round pick in the process.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:36 amJon- Baltimore drafts #8 not #3. ATL is at #3.
I also don’t see how a trade sucks other than us losing a good player of course. If we keep him during said “rebuilding” we will for sure lose him next year and get nothing. That is what would suck.
I think we should make a blockbuster trade with Dallas and try to get a DE and a pick for him.
Nice article Adam, hope there isn’t too much backlash from the JA lovers. I like him too, but its crazy to keep an unhappy player just to lose him for nothing but maybe a compensatory pick from the league.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:59 amAlso, did you guys see the Miami GM slip up and say the player they draft is going to be the pillar of their defense? I doubt that was orchestrated, it is tough for a GM to pull something like that off without it being contrived. I have a hunch they might grab Dorsey.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:02 amVery thorough!!
I’m getting lukewarm on the whole Jared thing – how it all pans out remains to be seen. I’m in favor of it if happening if the deal is right but I’m skeptical. It’s just as likely to be a pre-draft smokescreen to get some other team nervous enough to make a draft-day move with the Chiefs. We’ll see.
I’ve felt for a long time that a trade with Chicago could be appealing because the Bears have additional bartering room with their extra 3rd round pick. I felt the same about Baltimore until they traded away the better of their 2 3rd rounders to Buffalo.
One way I can see the Dallas trade working would be for Dallas to give up their 2 first rounders, their 3rd rounder, next years 2nd rounder and then we swap this year’s 2nd round picks which would put the Cowboys in a better position to acquire the quality CB they seek.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:09 amI don’t like commenting a bunch of times in a row, but my vote on trading Allen would go to the Eagles and getting Shepard and their pick, however, Albert won’t last past 12-15.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:10 amHave you all been taking crazy pills!? What’s our plans? get younger, get better, right? Guess what, JA is both young and good. I believe it was Herm who said “We wanna get guys going into there second contract”
April 18th, 2008 at 9:20 amThis would happen to be JA’s second contract. Also, For the most part, I really don’t believe the fans had Carls back in the LJ deal. Plus, LJ had NO leverage. He was coming off a year were history says he’s going to lose productivity, and he had a BAD fucking attitude. So what’s King Carl do makes the deal that shouldn’t be made and gives LJ a ton of money to turn into Jamal Lewis, or Mike Anderson. Now He’s about to trade away our entire defensive strategy. Do you realize how ugly those cornerbacks are going to look without JA dictating the pace of our opponents passing downs? JESUS CHRIST I WANNA MOVE TO INDY AND BUY A BLUE JERSEY!
Pft! Hahaha! Then PEACE OUT SIMON! This KC train will move on without you. . . Jared Allen is great, but he’s NOT our ENTIRE DEFENSE. Remember those guys? Oh, Yeah! DJ, Donnie Edwards, Tamba Hali, B. Pollard!! Granted we’d lose a 1 mang gang, but we’d still have an 11 men squad! Jared DIDNT make our D. Our D made our D.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:31 amGuilty as charged on the research difficiency, but still nervous about LJ…I defer to the all-knowing at this point. However, if you are so certain on LJ, and with all the $$s invested in a RB, then I can’t see taking McFadden, unless it is a move to negotiate another trade.
I’m all for losing JA for a #1 (Vikes at 17 is great) and a 3rd rounder, draft Dorsey, then Otah…wahlah, get another OT (Duane Brown) next in round 2, then see what happens after that.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:31 am“Jesus Christ” Donnie AND Nap made over 100 takles last year, Tamba was a pillar on our D Line, And my boy DJ made the MOST takles behind the line of scrimmage in the ENTIRE LEAGUE!
April 18th, 2008 at 9:36 amAnd as far as LJ goes, he didnt pull a Mike Anderson (the nerve of THAT comparison). . . He had THEE WORST O Line in the league. Remember? . . . LJ has a huge chip on his shoulder and hes coming back to take care of business as usual. But THIS time around it’ll be on HIS terms. NO contract issues, NO injury, and NOBODY holding him back like Herm did. . . We’re gonna see the return of The Man-Beast. . . And THEN NO ONE will be bitching when we see him throwing up the diamond AT LEAST once a game.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:43 amHey Adam. . . Crane. . . . So, when dudes talk about “moving to Indy and buying a blue jersey”, is THAT when we talk “fan loyalty”?
April 18th, 2008 at 9:48 amHe’ll be missed. To quote Borat. NOT!
April 18th, 2008 at 9:53 amPlus, LJ had a ton of leverage, Simon. You’re out of your mind. His leverage was he looked like the second coming of Jim Brown. They would have strung Carl up from the rafters of the Sprint Center if he didn’t re-sign him.
April 18th, 2008 at 9:54 amHe weel NOT! be missed . . . No? He Weel be missed-not. . . . . (No, you have to pause. . . . He will be missed. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . NOT!) Hahahaha!
April 18th, 2008 at 9:57 amAnd to add to THAT, Crane, LJ was still playing off is rookie contract, yet the franchise player like LT and Payton Manning. 27 DESERVED that money and deserves the credit for what he’s done and WILL do for this team on that field.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:02 amPeople need to realize that its a two way street. I love Jared! One of his biggest supporters, but as always its about the Chiefs first.
Simon -
He wants out of KC. What do you do with that? Let him walk?
and people need to realize that LJ came back to KC. He WANTED to be in KC and the only reason why he has ever bitched or been f-ing pissed off is because his line SUCKS or he wasn’t getting playing time.
As a coach, that is the attitude I want from my players. I want them to be pissed when they are playing shitty. Of course he could handle it better, but not everyone is going to be the perfect teammate. I would much rather have him complaining about the coaching and other players efforts than drinking and driving. If Jared killed someone would you still have the same impression?
I am happy that he turned his life around. It speaks volumes, but again he wants out and it is better to get something for him rather than NOTHING.
Come on we are all Royals fans we should understand this, LOL
April 18th, 2008 at 10:14 amNot to mention that if Jared splits, we can still pickup a force on the D Line with the #5 pick (Long, Gholston, Dorsey, or Ellis). I WOULD RATHER go with a Phili trade for their 1st rounder, Lito and MAYBE a 3rd rounder. . . more so than Minnesota’s 1st and 3rd round picks. If the Vikes fess up and offer their 1st and 2nd round picks, then we’re talkin’.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:22 amSimon,
J.A. doesn’t want to be here, and it looks like you don’t either. Maybe you two Benedict Arnolds can carpool together on your way out of town. Get yourself that blue jersey, be sure to watch L.J. come back and put together the second half of a HoF career over the next few years and don’t let the door hit you.
- The Good Folks at Arrowhead Addict
P.S. – If L.J. is the next Mike Anderson I will give you your own column on A.A. And did you notice that Jam had a great year last year? Guess not.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:28 amJon Y, what’s crazy is paying a guy $10 M who doesn’t want to be here and may have just cleaned up his act to get paid. As an NBA fan I see it happen often. Ask the Sonics if the regret maxing out alcoholic malcontent Vin Baker.
It is an honor to wear the Red and Gold. All GMs are shrewd, and Jared needs to get being a little bitch and realize that any GM would have played it like this after his multiple DUIs. Damn, I remember when Chiefs fans wanted to hang Eric Warfield for his DUIs. I remember when Chiefs fans bashed Leonard Little for his situation. Jared, like Eric, got two. Jared, like Leonard, could have killed somebody.
There’s a double standard with Jared that just really bugs me sometimes.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:33 amRoc27, Crane and Zach really handled this thing.
What I’d like to say again is that my allegiance is to the fans first (best in the NFL, baby), then the Red and Gold unis that are worn by the players inside Arrowhead, then the players.
Chiefs’ players make millions and millions of dollars. I have no space for a player set to make $10 M wanting out and disrespecting both the fans and the colors like this. If he gets in trouble again they will be pricks in Tampa, Minny or Philly, too.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:36 amGreat Article, just absolutely great. Best Chief’s stuff on the whole internet! Can’t get enough. Keep it up! Things are looking good.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:52 amlook on Chiefs.com read dreaming in the first round if it all were to happen WOW! DRC here We come!!!
April 18th, 2008 at 10:56 amAdam,
Great article. I hope you are all right about the LJ of those 2000 AP yards coming back this year. I am really disappointed with some of his performances last year. Guess I just missed the battering ram he was the two years before. Anyway, your article…..I like it. I REALLY like it. It is the best one so far in my opinion. I agree that the best fit for a trade for Allen for OUR team is with Philly. We get probably the second best young CB “available” this year (only second to Asante Samuel of course!), a second 1st round pick to play with and who cares how high or low the second pick in this years draft. We get LITO!!!! We need his help badly in the secondary. There are a couple of young guys I liked watching last year, but they are too far away at this point to help an increasingly aging Surtain. I do know one thing. If this trade happens, we need to get THE best player available. Not try to fit a need. We did that when we picked Sims and I REALLY want us to NOT make that mistake again. I still disagree with the bashing King Carl gets, but hey that’s what he gets paid the big bucks for! I also think you are EXACTLY right about their motives for drafting Turk McBride. I think he is a much better DE than a DT. DT is what Tank is best at. I would be fine with our front four being Tamba, Tank, Vernon and Turk. They are all young and they all have some big freaking motors on the field. I saw the think on kc’s website with Chan, so I am not entirely sure they would go for Matt Ryan. Chan seems convinced Brodie will be a star. If we get him a line, I think Chan might be right. Thoughts?
April 18th, 2008 at 11:30 amJeremy!!! Another Chiefs fan in the San Diego “area”! What’s UP!!!!
April 18th, 2008 at 11:31 amMichael, the whole team sucked last year it wasn’t just LJ!
April 18th, 2008 at 11:33 amand its hard to be a battering ram when you are always getting hit in the backfield.
I know most people probably think I have LJs back to much, but I AM JUST TIRED OF THE HATERS! Especially when people are cheerleading for Jared Allen and hating on LJ when he isn’t even involved in this JA crybaby shit. Thats right I called Jared a cry baby. Go get your diapers and hang out with Chad Johnson.
He wants to be here and if Carl will give him an OL he will be a HOF. But what we got right now is not going to cut it.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:38 amPriority Picks AFTER The Jared Allen Storm: 1) Chris Long 2) Glenn Dorsey 3) Vernon Gholston 4) Sedrick Ellis. Then with our 2ND 1ST round pick: 1) Branden Albert 2) Jeff Otah 3) Chris Williams 4) DRC . In the 2nd round, I say we take Sam Baker.
April 18th, 2008 at 11:44 amMichael, we should be cornering the CA market, ROC27 is from CA too. I was Born in Olathe KS, that is why I am a Chiefs fan. You?
April 18th, 2008 at 11:57 amWe might have to get a Cali AA Podcast Show going
ROC – I think Chris Long is going to be a Dolphin, especially after the Ireland slip up today. I think I would still go Dorsey. I am starting to love this guy!
April 18th, 2008 at 12:00 pmGosh. . . I am praying that when I get off work, go home, turn on Total Access, I’ll be watching Adam Schefter reporting that Philadelphia has topped Minnesota’s trade offer with their 1st round pick, their 3rd round pick, and Lito Sheppard.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:00 pmSo Cal Chiefs, represent. Im NOT from KC, BUT My Father is and though he bailed on me and my Moms, The Chiefs were the only thing he left behind. . . Im PROBABLY a bigger fan than he is NOW. . . And Zach, Im ALL for picking up Dorsey, BUT if Chris HAPPENS to be there, he’d be a perfect replacement.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:09 pmI think we can all be in agreement that we all love Jared despite his issues and wish we could keep him, but we are starting to buy into the Chiefs rebuilding and moving JA can help us as fans buy into it. In fact, it forces us to. He was a “lucky” draft pick on our part, and his own issues forced him to turn into the player he is.
What do you want more? A star DE end on a shitty team? Or a young star-filled team that won’t collapse under the weight of the two stars’ contracts? In the same breath, KC needs to be extra careful this isn’t a draft-day deal where our strategy has to change at the last minute and we end up with a few Ryan Sims due to poor planning.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pmMore on the L.J. thing, look at the games he played in last year. I’ve said this a million times, but nobody ran on Jacksonville and Minnesota, and L.J. also carved up a good San Diego front seven. He was doing fine overall. Chicago and Houston were also pretty good up front, as was Green Bay. He’ll be back and badder then ever, mark my words.
We might just have to do an all-L.J. header with all the hating that’s been going on!
April 18th, 2008 at 12:37 pmWell boys, it looks like its coming close to the end of the line for Jared and our Chiefs. Apparently, Allens agent is in a Viking’s office as we speak talking contracts. . . And Adam. . . I’ll be leading that LJ march, with a huge fuzzy hat, a baton, and a #27 on my chest. Holla Back! Hahaha!
April 18th, 2008 at 12:48 pmAdam, Crane, and Roc….
Let’s clear up a few misconceptions. Jared never said he doesn’t want to play for KC. He’s mentioned before that he absolutely loves the fans and, for crying out loud, even opened a restaurant here–I’m sure that a guy who hates KC would do that. But that aside, he’s also been one of the most visible faces of the franchise. I’ve heard dozens of stories of Jared talking with fans like they were his best friends. The fans love him and I’ve heard plenty of stories that his teammates love him too. Hard to believe he wouldn’t want to return to that.
Which means that the only thing keeping him out of KC is money. Either that, or the pricks in our front office have pissed him off so much that the entire negotiation has gotten personal. Don’t twist this into a story about how Jared hates KC. He loves the city and the fans, but he despises the front office. And by the way, he joins a very long line of disgruntled Chiefs over the past two years, which include Waters, Turley, Wesley, LJ, and Trent Green who have all voiced very publicly their disgust for the way the front office treats their players.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pmhe did say he wanted out..he said he wants to play for a team that is in contention to win the championship..its pretty obvious we are not..the guy wants out..let him go..and if your in denial and your crush wont let you accept it..throw on your cowboy boots and comb your mullet and you can boot scoot right along with him
April 18th, 2008 at 12:54 pmCrane, you have to be kidding me that you think the Chiefs’ cap is going to collapse because of Allen’s contract. For starters, the Chiefs cleared a ton of cap room this season and, by the way, money we don’t spend this year doesn’t roll over until next year. You’re telling me that the Chiefs wouldn’t want to sign Jared to a front-loaded deal that would allow us to have a manageable cap in a few years? Secondly, given the history of the NFL the past few years, the cap could easily increase over the next few years and there are even rumors that the new CBA will get rid of the salary cap entirely. So I can understand being frugal about players like Jake Scott or Berrian, who were grossly overpaid. But to suggest that a team with a ridiculous amount of cap room can’t afford to pay their best defensive player top 5 DE money is absurd.
I have yet to see an instance of a team rebuilding entirely from scratch. Almost every team focuses on keeping key players they can revolve their team around. LJ is the guy on offense. Allen should be the guy on defense. I don’t know how this thread got into the stance that if you support Allen, you hate LJ. No way. I’m glad the Chiefs locked down LJ and they need to do the same with Allen.
April 18th, 2008 at 12:56 pmJared Allen doesn’t want to be in a Chiefs uniform. He said that last year and he won’t be here next year, so trade him now! I really like J.A., but the Chiefs need to get the most out of him and that means trading while he’s worth something. Our defense will survive w/o him. I like your hypothetical trade with philly…makes a lot of sense.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pmI also appreciate this blog. I check it daily and think it’s great! GO CHIEFS!
By the way, for those advocating a deal… It’s amazing how much this can be spun. Let’s look at this point for point.
1) Allen was arguably the best DE in the NFL last year. That’s a high standard to set for his replacement. So even if the Chiefs get Long or Gholston, it’s going to take a monster effort for either of those guys to become as good as Allen. The Chiefs could luck out and get Long. If they get Gholston, God help us… the guy is a one-dimensional DE who is going to be a liability against the run. So chances are extremely high that this will be a downgrade.
2) A #5 pick on a DE is a pick that could have and should have been used on an offensive lineman. At pick #17, Long, Clady, Otah and Albert are off the board. Chris Williams could be alright, but he doesn’t carry n early the same upside as those 4.
3) If the Chiefs are forced to take Gholston, they can no longer make a trade with New England or New York or Baltimore, who are all targets for a trade-down. Again, the Chiefs could end up getting multiple first day picks in that trade-down. So… for those arguing that we get better picks by moving Allen, you’re completely, completely wrong. If the Chiefs keep Allen and trade down, we end up with the same kinds of picks AND we end up with a top 5 lineman, instead of the second-tier lineman we’d be forced to take at #17
4) That last point brings me to this point: you can’t make the argument that the Chiefs get an extra first rounder for Allen if they are forced to use their #5 pick to find Allen’s replacement.
I can understand the mindset that if Allen wants to go, we should get something in return. I would argue that the only reason he wants to go, though, is because the front office isn’t giving him a reasonable contract offer. But to suggest that this is a good deal for the Chiefs is ludicrous. We downgrade at DE. We get a #17 pick lineman instead of a #5 pick. We lose the opportunity to trade down with NE, Baltimore, and NY and get additional picks. And for what? So we can save $10 Mill in guaranteed money in a year when we have something like $20-30 Million to spend on the cap?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:13 pmmla, those words are twisted around. Jared has said multiple times that he loves Kansas City, Arrowhead, and the fans. He has pretty much made it clear throughout the entire process that if the Chiefs give him the contract he wants, he’ll sign it.
Now, don’t discount the fact that maybe the Chiefs are letting Jared talk to other teams just to give his agent a sense for his free market value. But I don’t know what proof anyone has that, if given a reasonable contract, Allen doesn’t want to play in KC. Is it the restaurant he opened in KC? Is it the fact that he’s always seen having fun with his teammates? Is it the TV show he does? Is it the multiple times he genuinely interacts with fans? In spite of all he does for the city, the team, and the fans, are we really, seriously painting the picture that the guy doesn’t want to be here?
He wants to be here. But he also wants to get paid what he’s worth. I don’t know why anyone would call him a crybaby for that. It’s pretty ridiculous that Minnesota hammered out a deal in a few days whereas the Chiefs took a year and a half to do it.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:18 pmComeSackMyQB… You’re pretty defensive of a front office who has shown a 20-year pattern of lukewarm results. I never said I’d leave town or stop being a fan. But as a fan, it’s extremely frustrating when a team can do whatever it wants and not worry about backlash from the fans. Because I, like all other fans, will support the team no matter what. But that doesn’t give the front office incentive to take advantage of us.
I don’t know what argument we have to make that this is a good deal for the Chiefs. Do the Chiefs get better picks? No (see my above post). Do the Chiefs get better personnel wise? Absolutely not (see above post). The only argument you can make is that they save money. And when a team with $20-30 million in cap room complains that they don’t have the cap resources or money to pay Allen what he deserves, that’s a complete joke. An absolute joke.
If you believe the front office is right then they have completely “Punk’d” you. They just saved themselves $10 million not because they couldn’t afford it, but because they were too cheap to pay it out, and you the fan support that decision.
As I said before, whatever money we save in cap money in 2007 doesn’t roll over to 2008. So if the Chiefs are $20-30 million below the cap, that’s $20-30 million we absolutely wasted by not investing it on players. Chew on that.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:27 pmI just read a comment about Gholsten that made my head spin. I prefer him to Chris Long big time. Granted, I like Ryan, Dorsey, Jake and Run DMC better, but Gholsten is a God among insects. He could be the next L.T., and not the one out in sunny San Diego either.
I’m not buying the Howie hype with Chris Long.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pmComeSackMyQb was on AA podcast yesterday saying that since Carl has been a big part of this problem then if Jared is traded he should follow him out the door. So you got him all wrong. If you want to go listen, head over there and give it a listen.
Also, I think most people (athletes, celebs) open up restaurants or businesses so the have another source of income in case something happens to their first career. I am sure they do 99 percent for their pockets and maybe about 1 percent for the fans (if any). If he wasn’t popular would he open a restaurant? I think that says more about us as fans than Jared being loyal. If he was loyal than he would say:
“I want to stay in Kansas City and make this team a contender. I believe we can do that. If the Chiefs do not want to pay me then I would like to go play for a contender”
That would make me think he really would want to stay in KC. Rather than just say I want to go.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:39 pmand the Chiefs are saving cap so they can compensate themselves for the 100 million they are paying for the renovation. If anyone doesn’t see that than they are blind.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pmJon Y, Jared laid his own freakin’ bed! Stop defending the guy. If anybody else in any business demanded a raise and jumped up and down and stomped their feet after two DUIs they’d get laughed at, then fired. Any reasonable GM would have played this like Carl played it. Even now investing in Jared at his price tag is risky business.
And, yes, reading between the lines he has definitely said he wants to leave. Because any reasonable front office would have treated him like we did, yeah, I think he is disrespecting the fans and the city.
THIS DUDE NEEDS TO TAKE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY! HE’S FORTUNATE THAT HE DIDN’T END UP IN BIGGER TROUBLE, A LA CHRIS HENRY AND TANK JOHNSON. WAKE UP, JARED, YOU HAD IT GOOD IN K.C.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:43 pmGreat points, Zach.
Jared Allen need look no further than Tony G to see what a true Chief looks like. I’m embarrassed that some fans call Jared their favorite Chief over a guy like Tony Gonzalez. That’s professionalism, Jared.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:45 pmAnd, listen, I like Jared. He’s a good guy, and a great player. But he got his $10 M, what more does he want from this damn city and organization. He’s being completely unreasonable here. Any franchise would have played it safe with him. C’mon, man, a year ago you nearly were one DUI away from being Pacman Jones. Have some gratitude.
April 18th, 2008 at 1:49 pmthx zach..jon..i hope you went over and took a listen..even twice if you needed to..i dont think anybody is innocent in this situation..allen..his agent..king carl..aka..king crap..incase you didnt see that yesterday…i think all parties..ALL PARTIES..involved need to exit our house..THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE…CHIEFS…i cannot tolerate a player who lets his head get to big for his helmet and a pea brained gm
April 18th, 2008 at 2:05 pmthats the house that we built..jared allen didnt build that house..king crap didnt build that house…thats fan money put to work…
April 18th, 2008 at 2:09 pmJon I don’t have to kid you, you are kidding yourself if you think the KC front office even wants to pay up for Allen. Whether we have cap room or not. And I don’t think this a good deal for KC at all, but we have to make the most of what we’re dealing with here.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:09 pmThe Cheaps don’t want Jared on the team any more than they want Ryan Sims back. He’s too expensive for our tastes. He’s Dom and we like Old Milwaukee.
ComeSackMyQB -
Thats what I meant to get across that you think all parties are at fault!
April 18th, 2008 at 2:25 pmDoes anyone else think it would be crazy for the Cowboys to trade up to draft another running back when they already have a beast? I can be convinced about the Chiefs drafting DMC at five even though they already have one, but to move up as far as they would have to just seems way too costly of a move when your not merely improving a strong point of your team rather than fixing a weakness.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:46 pmWow. I got retarded in that last sentence. I meant, “…when you’re merely…”. My bad. I promise I haven’t been boozing again Adam.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:49 pmLOL. I think the Cowboys are trying to figure out if they can get Pacman and he can get reinstated. If they do that then they dont need a CB and I see them possibly moving up.
They could have Felix Jones and one of the Corners or McFadden and Pacman. If I went for the second option I wouldnt let McFadden hang out with Pacman, lol.
But honestly if they both can keep there noses clean I would rather have those 2. Barber and Run DMC, WOW! Cowboys might return to glory or might need to get a more extensive legal team.
April 18th, 2008 at 2:53 pmYeah, I can see it if they pick up Pacman too. If they do, and take McFadden, I’m going to pass up on my vacation to Texas this summer.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pmJeremy I was born in Olathe Hospital, but I was raised in Gardner and Osawatomie.
Zach I am NOT an LJ hater despite what it MAY seem like. I just didn’t see the same LJ that most of you must have. I have compared some foottage from the 06 and 05 season and to be honest it wasn’t the same LJ OUT OF THE GATE, so to speak. Still think he will make the HOF and would not trade him for anyone in the league. I think the hold out hurt him in a physical manner, game wise. Personally, I would LOVE to see LJ hammer Merriman and the like to make up for last year. YES, I TOTALLY agree it wasn’t totally his fault for the entire season. He got back to form prior to the injury, but the line was the MAIN issue last year. As for JA…….in my honest opinion, he doesn’t deserve DF money. Yes I know he had a PB Season, but DUI’s aren’t a fluke. Once an alcoholic always one. I know my mother is a shining example, unfortunately. Would love to keep him, but hell ship his “unhappy” ass to Philly for Lito and a first and third THIS year. I HATE to see him go to the Vikes! I hate them as bad as the Donkey’s and craiders. The Vikes are my ex wife’s favorite team so screw them. They don’t deserve him.
Let me know if we need to get a CA red and gold party for the draft going. I am in if I don’t have to work that weekend!!!!!!
April 18th, 2008 at 3:06 pmWell the difference between the previous seasons and this one is that he had an OL. I think everyone realizes that. No Will Shields and Willie Roaf (Also a Casey Weignmann in his prime) can make any RB look completely different. Especially when you think you can fix those issues with Kyle Turley, Chris Terry, and John Welbourn.
Running backs have to be able to at least get to the line of scrimmage to be able to be successful. LJ has to get his power moving and if he has 2-3 guys in his face in the backfield there is no going… I dont care who you are, especially a power back.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:12 pmlook we have the power here. i say we ask for 3 #1s. if we do not get them we keep him and if he doesnt sign let his ass sit. he’ll sign sooner or later. i may be wrong (have been before) but i dont think theres a rule that says you can only franchise 1 time just keep franchising him for a couple of years and when we dont need him anymore let him go. hes gonna cost us 10 mil a year anyways so its all the same to us right? he wants to play hardball well so the fuck can we.
April 18th, 2008 at 3:49 pmyou guys got me all wrong. I love LJ and hopefully he will come back and rip the league apart. I REALLY hope he will, but when you put that much ware and tear on a running back they lose a step. that’s the rules, just the way it is. As far as moving to Indy I’m sure none of you assholes will care, but I want to cheer for an organization that cares about it’s fans as much as it’s fans care about them.That’s a high bar for the Chiefs because we’re (including me, fellas) the best damn fans in the NFL. Also, Adam You vring up a good point with JA maybe not wanting to be here. I don’t know guys, I just miss the days of hard nosed players wanting to wear ONE jersey there career. You guys just picture 69 in purple and gold. Does it make sense? Seriously shit! It’s like Neil Smith all over again. anyone, Maybe the Indy comment was out of hand. I don;t care what anyone says I’ll root for the RED&GOLD till the day I die
April 18th, 2008 at 3:55 pmPlease take the “from kc” off of your name. For me?
April 18th, 2008 at 3:59 pmJason – There is no way any team will offer three 1sts. Getting 2 1sts is even pushing these days.
Simon – Thats why I still can’t respect Neil. Sure he got his ring, but he is still a half-donkey to me. I also think it is ridiculous that the Brigade retired his number.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:05 pmAdam, your analogy doesn’t apply. You’re comparing Jared Allen to an expendable businessperson. Let’s put it this way: if I got two DUIs and demanded a raise in spite of my history, I wouldn’t get it. If you’re a Chief Financial Officer for Apple that just raked in millions upon millions of dollars of profitability, Apple probably would give you a raise in spite of your DUI history. Why? Because Apple knows that if they lose you, they could lose millions of dollars. Same applies here. If Tre Stallings gets 2 DUIs, he’s gone. If we’re talking Tony Gonzalez or Jared Allen, you can’t get too caught up in it.
Secondly, I don’t understand your argument about accountability, given that the guy made an extremely concerted effort last year to turn his life around. He went on a rigorous workout routine last year, lost a ton of weight, and supposedly cut back on his drinking. Have you ever been 23 before? I have. I’m 27 now. I can tell you that I don’t do nearly the dumb things now that I do then. Are you completely eliminating the possibility that maybe Allen grew up? Or that Allen at least recognizes the threat enough that he’ll change his behavior? It’s a far cry from Pac-man and Chris Henry, who broke the rules and never even remotely tried to change their behavior. Allen is a changed man. Whether he sustains that is one thing… but at least acknowledge that he did it for at least one year.
You claim that the Chiefs handled this situation right and that every team would have done what the Chiefs did. How can you argue that when there were several teams willing to both pay Allen a buttload of money AND give up lots of draft picks to get him?
April 18th, 2008 at 4:10 pmZach, I’m really glad you brought up that point. And it’s one that I think is extremely important to this discussion.
Nobody here has even mentioned the fact that a major roadblock to the negotiaton could very well be that either Clark Hunt is too cheap to field a team that plays to the cap or that the renovations are limiting how much we can invest in the team. Because that’s extremely important to this discussion. That implies that the Chiefs aren’t re-signing Allen not because they think it’s in the best interest of the team, but because they don’t have the physical money to do so.
And if that’s the case, that’s even more aggravating because it’s a sign that the Chiefs as an organization have lied to fans and used Jared Allen as their stool pigeon to avoid getting blamed for it. If the Chiefs don’t have enough money to pay up to the cap limit, they should tell the public directly. Instead, they have tricked all of you into believing that the reason they won’t sign players like Jared Allen is because they are constrained by the salary cap.
If that’s the case, we’ve been lied to, and I for one would not be happy about it.
And that supports my argument big time, because we can’t rule out the possibility that Jared Allen was presented with an insultingly low offer and that the Chiefs haven’t budged from that offer. If that’s the case, then who could blame Allen for being PO’ed right now. If the Chiefs have truly refused to give Jared the up-front signing bonus he deserves, then Allen has every right to be a “crybaby.”
April 18th, 2008 at 4:17 pmjason, you have it wrong.
Jared does have the power to sit out 10 games and then re-join. And you can only franchise Allen for 2 years, because that’s when his original contract expires.
As for the economics of slapping the tag on him every year, it’s a really lousy idea. The beauty of a long-term contract is that it locks the player in for the length of the contract and it spreads the cost out over time. So the Chiefs can decide to, say, load $15 million of his bonus in his first year, and then spread the rest of the $15 million of guarantees through the next 4 years of the contract. Or the Chiefs can choose to spread the full $30 million throughout the 5 years of the contract. So if the Chiefs have cap room now, they’d want to front-load the contract so they don’t owe Allen anything later. If you rely on constantly franchising Allen, you have no flexibility to structure the cap hit to your liking. Furthermore, as salaries increase, that means that the franchise salary skyrockets alongside it.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:21 pmI think his point is that Allen behaved for one year. Sure it is outstanding that he might have turned his life around, but it will take more than a year to prove that to people. Also if he slips up just once he is done for a YEAR.
Also you have to realize that this was his contract year and most players realize they have to perform cause this might be their only contract. So you have to take that in account.
If Jared never does anything bad again I will be very happy for him. But you can’t say that one year of good behavior during a contract year is a guarantee. I mean he did get 2 DUIs…
Trust me I think we would all love to keep Jared. I just think most of us realize its either trade him when he has his highest value. Does it suck? Hell Yes. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
Trust me, I still think Carl should be following him out the door, but I am going to let this takes it course then we will hammer him.
April 18th, 2008 at 4:33 pmJON YOU HAVE IT WRONG LET ME EXPLAIN,i know that NO TEAM will give up 3 #1s. and i also know he has the power to sit out 10 games ,but then he doesnt get that 10 mil. it will be prorated, also if he only plays 6 games in 2 years #1 what does that actually say about him? if you front load his contract whats to say that when he doesnt get that big money every year that he wont hold out again. the beauty of a long term contract is that if he gets hurt then what for us? like i said we have the power for AT LEAST two years and if you can only franchise until his original contract expires then why does he have a contract?
April 18th, 2008 at 5:01 pmalso jon you dont know that ANY TEAM will give hm alot of money and give up draft picks because the deals not done yet and might never be who knows whats actually going on, not you or me for sure. im just pissed that its come to this and i think this is all jareds doing(going on these visits) i dont think that we asked him to do this
April 18th, 2008 at 5:05 pmi said 3 #1s just because we dont really want to give him up but if their willing to give up then let them have him
April 18th, 2008 at 5:07 pmContracts don’t mean shit once a player has an uber-season. They always want more and more. Front loaded, back loaded…it doesn’t matter. Look at Ocho and Lito.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:11 pmthank you crane just my point
April 18th, 2008 at 5:15 pmalso read up on some rules and saw nothing that says we cant franchise him for as long as we want
April 18th, 2008 at 5:39 pmim not good enough with this computer to qoute another site but it says nothing about franchising only until his original contract is up.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:42 pmwe were going to franchise TG a couple of years ago also
April 18th, 2008 at 5:42 pmNice Crane. +10 points for you.
April 18th, 2008 at 5:46 pmhey jason..you find a team yet?
April 18th, 2008 at 5:56 pmno they hate me! HAha
April 18th, 2008 at 5:59 pmi seen on kffl that he is in minn. and they dont plan on letting him leave there until the deal is totally done..between them and jared..between jared and us and between them and us..its looking like its gonna happen
April 18th, 2008 at 6:00 pmAnother SoCal Chiefs fan here (L.A.). Born in KC in 82, but left while I was still a baby. Fell in love with football, the Chiefs, DT, and Marty in my youth and I have bled red ever since. I’ll be making my annual pilgrimage to an NFL game this year to see the Chiefs. Probably do the game @ SD. I’ll wait until the stadium is complete next season before making my second Arrowhead visit.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:01 pmi got you hooked up..check up ..should have an offer in your box
April 18th, 2008 at 6:03 pmwe all bleed red…question is..do you have gold streaks runnin through it..lol
April 18th, 2008 at 6:04 pmGuys you can franchise a player every year if you want. Good luck if he shows up to anything though…
April 18th, 2008 at 6:05 pmcsmqb just checked nothing there,
April 18th, 2008 at 6:10 pmzach thats fine let this sumbitch sit on the farm and ROT sooner or later he WILL show to get his money, really thats what its all about. i say we play HARDBALL on this one.everyone keeps saying that if we franchise him we lose him next year we dont. if we’re going to lose out and if noone gives us what we want then he can sit at home and not get paid or play for us and get the money
hey zach..how you doin..its lookin like there will be a deal done with minn. in the next few days..
Vikings | J. Allen meeting with team Friday
Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:19:40 -0700
Judd Zulgad, of the Star Tribune, reports Kansas City Chiefs DL Jared Allen is meeting with the Minnesota Vikings Friday, April 18, and it appears as if the team will try to keep Allen in town until an agreement is reached both with him on a contract and with the Chiefs on compensation.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:11 pmhow many times has someone sat out even the 10 games? i couldnt tell you for sure but i think it hasnt been much i pay alot of attention to sports and i really cant remember more than 1 time
April 18th, 2008 at 6:13 pmlerts look briggs would NEVER play for dabears bullshit. sameul will wait 10 games, bullshit. they all say the same things, bullshit.bullshit. bullshit.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:14 pmJ..i sent the guy a note..so he’ll get with you soon..i have 3 guys on his team
April 18th, 2008 at 6:15 pmsorry samuel, also i will never in my whole life probably make even 10 million dollars so for this guy to take a shit on that kind of money, and to say hes a bluecollar calf ropin cowboy,I CALL BULLSHIT
April 18th, 2008 at 6:16 pmthanks csmqb also
April 18th, 2008 at 6:17 pmCMSQB – The Chiefs still have to agree to a trade so… we shall see.
Also if he leaves town I don’t think he will be traded to Minny.
Jason – Would you rather have 2 or 3 potential players or a guy that sits out and causes the team a huge issue. You do not want this to turn into a major distraction for the organization. Plus if he holds out and doesn’t come and says screw it his trade value could diminish. So you really have to consider all options.
April 18th, 2008 at 6:47 pmzach i understand what you are saying. im saying that if no one will give us a fair deal then make him sit. jon just pissed me off talking like jared is god but he put him self in this situation in my opinion
April 18th, 2008 at 6:54 pmIf The Blueprint 4 hits 100 in a day, does that mean it went platinum?
April 18th, 2008 at 8:06 pmI’d say this is the best job you’ve done on a “Blueprint” so far. Not even about right or wrong of course, but it looks as though you put a lot of work into it. Thanks Adam.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:10 pmJon, you know your stuff as well as any Chiefs fan out there, that’s obvious. But even George Carlin and Keith Richards have enjoyed periods of sobriety. I’m 29, and I understand what he did, I totally do. But that doesn’t guarantee that he’s a changed man for good. He could be, and he’s well on his way, but it’s still risky business.
Look, he really shaped up for a year and had an outstanding season, both on and off the field. But I guarantee you that if any of us were told that there would be $30 million in guaranteed dough waiting for us if we quit drinking, shed some pounds and had our best work year ever, we’d do it no questions asked, even if we planned on going back to business as usual afterwards. It’s hard to trust anyone in that situation, even someone like Jared, someone who seems honest.
I’ve seen so many pro athletes go to absolute shit once they get that big pay day. You have to be weary of players playing for contracts, especially in the NBA and NFL. The dreaded contract year will turn even the laziest players and the biggest behavioral problems into workout warrior angels.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:20 pmNo problem, KCMizzou. It’s just so much fun at this time of year to imagine all the possibilities, to play GM. I wanted to give everyone a shot to do that, and especially take my own shot in the process.
By the way, I’m still calling Jared to Minnesota.
Also, the big news is that Michael Smith has said that he knows for sure that the Chiefs will NOT draft Matt Ryan. I guess it’s time for “TB5: Let’s Finally Build This Byotch!” featuring Glenn Dorsey.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:24 pmWhat is not getting any run in this Allen situation is really the big story. I can’t believe I’m really saying this, but King Carl is doing a flat-out MASTERPIECE in this!
1. By not slapping the “exclusive” title on Allen, he’s implying that the Chiefs would possibly consider less that two first rounders in compensation. Thus, he gets to be the benevolent dictator, allowing the poor downtrodden (Allen) to seek his deal to feed his family.
2. He’s letting other teams do his negotiating for him. None of the famous Peterson related acrimony we hear so much about regarding negotiating with the King. Allen is free to find his deal, providing the Chiefs feel good about the compensation. Allen feels like King is treating him honorably (he is), and that he has a say in where he goes and what he does. Carl is exonerated by letting his arguably best player negotiate his own freedom.
and last but not least
3. The Chiefs can step in and match any offer and keep him! “What’s the matter Jared? We’re matching the deal you just made! We love you! We just wanted you to get the best deal you could, without getting in your way or impeding your career path!
Bottom line: Chiefs get chilly deal in pick compensation, or Allen gets a new deal without allegations of acrimony against King Carl. Brilliant.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:33 pmHa. Yeah, Adam, who knew being 4-12 could be so much fun. Ha. Thing is, we have to be pretty honest with ourselves that even if this draft goes well, we will most likely be in a similar position next year. Maybe not so high though. Let’s not forget, we’ve got some stars (Tony, Larry, Dustin, and Derrick) and some guys on the rise (Tamba and Bowe), some experience (Donnie, Brian, and Patrick), and some guys who could surprise with some help (Page and Pollard). I really think we’re one of the best teams that were under .500 last year as crazy as it may sound.
April 18th, 2008 at 8:48 pmDream Trade #1: the Chiefs and Patriots swap out positions in the first round. For moving down two spots (a 200-point move), the Chiefs receive New England’s third-round choice, the 69th pick (worth 245 points.)
The Patriots take linebacker Keith Rivers from Southern Cal, filling a growing hole in their defense with the best linebacker in this year’s draft.
Still drafting at No. 6, the Jets stun everyone and select defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis, also out of Southern Cal.
The Chiefs are up again at No. 7 and both McFadden and Ryan are still available.
The Baltimore Ravens really want a quarterback. Steve McNair has just announced his retirement and Kyle Boller has never worked out as a top-notch starter. Sitting at No. 8, they can practically touch Ryan and they never thought they would have the chance.
Dream Trade #2: to make sure they get Ryan, Baltimore deals with the Chiefs, moving up the one spot (a 100-point jump.) In return, the Chiefs receive the Ravens choices in round four (106th, worth 82 points) and six (173rd, worth 22 points).
Now, the Chiefs sit at No. 8 and McFadden is still sitting there. Down in Dallas, Jerry Jones can’t stay in his seat. He wants his fellow Arkansas man and the price at No. 8 is certainly less upfront money than drafting in the top five picks. Jones dials Kansas City and his good friend Carl Peterson and talks begin.
Dream Trade #3: to get McFadden at No. 8 (worth 1,400 points), the Cowboys give up both of their first round picks at No. 22 (780 points) and No. 28 (660 points.)
So in little more than one hour on the draft clock, the Chiefs will have dealt their way into a spot where they have picked up four extra draft choices, giving them 14 in the entire Draft. They would also have seven of the first 106 players: choices No. 22, 28, 35, 66, 69, 105 and 106.
And even after the first 106 players, the Chiefs would still have seven draft slots remaining.
Dream some more; those seven choices produce a pair of offensive tackles, a pair of cornerbacks, a wide receiver, a guard and a defensive end. The first five end up in the starting lineup. The guard and defensive end make contributions as part-time players.
OK, so what are the legitimate chances of this dream scenario coming true? Well, it’s about the same as any mock draft you read hitting correctly on more than a third of its predictions. One of those deals may happen, but all three; that’s pretty far-fetched.
But consider this: if a deal comes down for Jared Allen, that could be another two high choices as well (1st-2nd or 3rd.) How about the Chiefs with nine of the first 106 players? Now that would be re-building!
this is off kcchiefs.com….this could be a great if it were to work out
April 18th, 2008 at 9:00 pmTHis post and its analysis is Sheer genious….wow… Incredible job Adam! One of most complete and insightful analysis…. I have ever seen…….
I say go with the extra draft picks, it is our only chance…like taking a three point shot with less than 2 seconds to go to win the game…. if they pull this off than I for one will have more faith in the new direction for the chiefs….sure it is risky…Herms job is on the line with this one…but kudos for trying…
April 18th, 2008 at 10:43 pmHere you go Adam..this makes 100..had to do it before im off for bed..congrats..great article
April 18th, 2008 at 10:46 pmPlatinum! Jay-Z isn’t the only one dropping platinum Blueprints.
The one thing about the Pats moving up is that Keith Rivers will be there at No. 7. I also here that they are interested in Jared Allen, which isn’t a surprise. Don’t know if I like him in the 3-4, though. Although with their aging backers the Pats might be best suited to move to a 4-3. They have the personnel.
April 18th, 2008 at 10:57 pmwhat do you guys think about if allen does go to minn.. using the first we get from them on phillip merling as allens replacement..that way we still have our high pick to work with
April 19th, 2008 at 12:05 amAdam, I know that Jared’s sobriety is a question mark. But given that it’s the basis of everyone’s argument, it’s only fair game to point out that he did straighten up in a very big way, which is more than can be said with Odell, Chris henry, and Pac-man, who were still getting in trouble in spite of their suspension. I don’t mind the Chiefs worrying about it. What pisses me off is the way the Chiefs wave it around as a leverage flag, thinking that Jared won’t get pissed when Carl goes to the public and declares that Jared is an “at risk” player.
I wish we would stop defending these pompous assholes in the front office and start realizing that they’re exactly the reason why this team hasn’t won in 20 years. Pissing off players is poor policy. It’s exactly the reason why companies invest millions of dollars every year on Human Resources (HR) departments. Trent Green was an asshole but our front office was completely right. Greg Wesley is a whiny bitch but our front office is doing everything right. Brian Waters is an ungrateful jerk, but our front office is doing everything right. How many excuses do we have to make for our front office.
The fact is that Jared is one of about 10 Chiefs who have publicly expressed their disgust for the Chiefs’ front office in a pretty short time frame. And yet, every time the front office pisses off our players, we blame the player and not the front office.
Let’s get one thing clear: the Chiefs piss off their players more than any team in the NFL. If the Chiefs are doing the right thing each and every time, explain to me why there is more bitterness in KC than any other team in the NFL.
I’m sorry. I’ve supported Carl Peterson in the past. But this hardline bullshit has GOT to stop. I’m sick of him. For a guy who has no track record of winning on the pro level, he’s sure stubborn that he ’s doing the right thing.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:49 amOBVIOUSLY YOU EITHER CANT READ OR CANT COMPREHEND..WE HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL DAY..MYSELF..ZACH..WE ALL SAID THE SAME THING..WE WANT KING CARL GONE..WE BLAME HIM JUST AS MUCH AS WE BLAME JARED ALLEN…
April 19th, 2008 at 1:07 amWE HAVE ALL OPENLY CRITICIZED PETERSON…NOBODY HERE IS DEFENDING HIM SO I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU COME OFF WITH THAT..AND YES IM YELLING..THIS HAS BEEN SAID OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER..
April 19th, 2008 at 1:09 amYes, if you don’t think I have been critical of Carl you haven’t been reading. Take a look at when I first reported this on AA:
http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/04/17/bye-bye-jared-allen/
April 19th, 2008 at 1:45 amHere’s something to think about. We draft a shitload of players this year and hit the jackpot with our picks. Say only a fourth of them end up being great players, What happens when their rookie contracts are up? Can you imagine trying to do multiple second contracts with this front office!
April 19th, 2008 at 10:53 amJon,
Here’s me being hard on Clark Hunt and calling for Carl to get fired:
http://arrowheadaddict.com/2007/12/19/time-for-clark-to-ditch-the-glasses-don-the-cape/
But now that Carl is still here I’m looking at this particular situation objectively. Look, I know he’s an asshole and should have been handed his pink slip himself, but he’s handled certain situations, like Trent and Jared for instance, correctly.
April 19th, 2008 at 10:58 amCarl won’t make it that far.
April 19th, 2008 at 10:58 amJon, Carl did not go to the public and say hes an “at risk” player, the 2 DUIS took care of that for him also the one in college, and theres word that he had AT LEAST one in high school(juvenile records are sealed) if thats not an “at risk” player then i dont know what is.
April 19th, 2008 at 11:13 amalso if the hardline has got to stop do you think that we need to just go throwing money around? worked with bell, law, etc. didnt it?
April 19th, 2008 at 11:14 amnot comparing allen to those guys but you probably think that we should sign every over the hill asshole out there
April 19th, 2008 at 11:15 amJason, Jared Allen has no one to blame but himself for his mistakes. But I do remember grimacing at the press conference when he made the claim–it’s something that was implied, but you just don’t say it. I remember having the same reaction when Bush labeled 3 countries as “Axes of Evil.” It was a comment that you knew was not going to sit well with Allen–it was a true comment, but there’s something to be said for tact, and Peterson has repeatedly shown that he’s not afraid to undermine players if that means winning the upper-hand.
As for post #111, let’s not get ridiculous here with the comparisons. Jared Allen is not Kendrell Bell. He’s not Ty Law. On my MVN blog (mvn.com/nfl-chiefs), you’ll see that I’ve largely supported the Chiefs’ rebuilding efforts and reluctance to overpay for pricey veterans. But there’s a difference between veterans and pro bowlers. I supported the signing of LJ, no matter the cost. Same with Gonzalez. And Allen for the same exact reasons. Pro bowlers typically don’t hit the free agent market anymore because teams bend over backward to keep them on their team, regardless of the cost.
April 19th, 2008 at 11:24 amIF YOU READ THAT POST YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND I WASNT COMPARING HIM TO THEM. GO BACK AND READ 112
April 19th, 2008 at 11:27 amIF YOU WANT TO BE A CHIEF THEN I LOVE YOU BUT IF YOURE GOING ,THEN GET THE FUCK OUT.
April 19th, 2008 at 11:28 amthey also dont hit the market because of the FRANCHISE TAG!
April 19th, 2008 at 11:29 amAdam, I can see where you’re coming from. I don’t agree with you on Green, but I think that’s an entirely different situation, because Green was on his way out and not in the Chiefs’ future plans, whereas Allen is young and still has a lot to contribute to this organization.
I just think that when you have so many isolated incidents of players disgusted with the front office, it becomes very difficult to believe anything the front office says. Green and Wesley claimed the front office lied to them. Turley went on Sirius NFL Radio to rant about how Carl bullies Herm around. John Tait a few years ago left primarily because he refused to work with Peterson.
That’s key. Because when we claim that the front office is handling the Allen situation adequately, you point back to the prior pattern. Is Tait really whining about nothing? Or is this just one of many cases in a pattern of disrespect the front office has shown for its players? I believe it’s the latter, because there are so many prior cases to support that claim.
I can’t handle the idea that a player isn’t being signed largely because he can’t deal with the front office pricks. That bothers me. If our front office wasn’t so abrasive to its players, we’d have a terrific left tackle… and his name would be John Tait.
April 19th, 2008 at 11:37 amJOHN TAIT??? that guy wasnt good enough to be LT for us BEFORE and isnt good enough to be LT for the bears we MIGHT have a good RT but he couldnt be a “terrific LT” (by the way i have lots of friends in chi, they want him gone
April 19th, 2008 at 11:57 amthe difference with gonzo and lj was THAT THEY WANTED TO BE HERE OBVIOUSLY they didnt run around to other teams or even ask to
April 19th, 2008 at 11:59 amthe guy is in love with jared..he refuses to believe he has any fault in this..its a shame..how one man could let love get in the way of the obvious…lol..
April 19th, 2008 at 12:01 pmhe might just be jareds momma (at least hes doing a great impression of her)
April 19th, 2008 at 12:02 pmmaybe they want a campbells chunky soup commercial
April 19th, 2008 at 12:07 pmthey just might need it haha
April 19th, 2008 at 12:10 pmi for one have grown to enjoy the possibilities…we dont need a guy who has obviously let his head get bigger than our defense and if we did try to make him stay we would just have another chad johnson or T.O. i think if we get a first and now they are talkin both thirds from Minn we could get a great draft class…im sure outta 13 picks we could get at least 5 starters
April 19th, 2008 at 12:18 pmfo sho like i said if you want to be a chief great if not then i hope the door hits you on the way
April 19th, 2008 at 12:26 pmI can go for the first and two thirds. The first and one third idea isn’t going to cut it for me.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pmthere’s all kinds of rumors out there but thats what ive been seein the most today…and everybody talkin bout how hard of a bargain king crap drives
April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 pmJohn Tait is a good point by both sides–he’d be a good RT, but not LT.
April 19th, 2008 at 12:32 pmThis thing might go platinum twice before the day is over…lol…
April 19th, 2008 at 12:34 pmJust a general response…
#1 – Before negotiations, LJ mentioned several times that he was unhappy about being in Kansas City. As I’ve said many times before, it’s not about loving or liking the city. It’s about money. It always is. If the Chiefs give Allen the contract he wants, he’ll be fine with Kansas City.
#2 – I have never said Allen isn’t at fault. I have said the Chiefs are stupid to let him go. And it’s unbelievable to me that I have to fight about this point. Even in his supposedly unproductive years, he was a game-changer, and that’s not just measured through sacks… that’s also measured by QB hurries, knocked down passes, and forced fumbles. 15.5 sacks is extraordinarily difficult to replace.
#3 – The issue at stake is that our front office, not the city or the fans, are the ones driving guys like Allen to hate Kansas City. It’s not about a man-crush over Allen; it’s about our douche bag GM once again pissing off a player that we should be working hard to keep.
There are some of you who claim that the Chiefs should get rid of him because he doesn’t want to be here. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that he wouldn’t want to be here if he was offered the contract he wants. There are others who seem to think the Chiefs can win out with draft compensation, and my response to that is that you have 2 chances to replace a pro bowler and it’ll be difficult for their combined value to adequately do so.
I’ll throw this out there because I know a lot of you hate Peterson too… If Carl Peterson isn’t heading this negotiation, Jared Allen would’ve been signed and happy. I truly believe that to be the case. The speed at which Minnesota got him to agree to a contract only reflects to me that Allen is not asking for the moon, just a reasonable cut.
April 19th, 2008 at 1:37 pmBy the way, let me add this additional point in there.
Brian Waters went on Rome recently and said the Chiefs are shopping him around because he’s disgruntled too.
Is that his fault too? Or are we finally recognizing that there are a lot of Chiefs’ players who hate being here because they hate the way Carl Peterson runs his organization?
April 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pmWE HAVE ALREADY REALIZED THE POINT THAT YOU ARE TRYIN TO MAKE OVER AND OVER AND WE SAID THAT OVER AND OVER YESTERDAY..BUT YOU ACT AS THOUGH THERE IS NO PLAYER FAULT TO THIS…ALLEN SAYS HE WANTS TO BE ON A TEAM THAT HAS A CHANCE TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP..IS THAT US RIGHT NOW…OBVIOUSLY NOT..HE SAID HIM LEAVING BENEFITS THE CHIEFS AND HIMSELF…HMMM..WHAT DOES THAT SAY..IT DOESNT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENTIST DOES IT
April 19th, 2008 at 1:56 pmhow do you know that hes agreed to a contract?
April 19th, 2008 at 1:56 pmhow many sacks did he have year before last?
waters said hes being shopped where else has that been said?
sure he’d be happy with the contract HE wants, anyone would.
does anyone remember the hutchinson deal?, obviously wilff doesnt worry about throwing large sums of money around.
you would also have to show me where lj said he wanted out of kc, i seem to remember that he said he wouldnt have to worry every time he went out about someone looking for a payday.
Regardless of all the other disgruntled players, if it were me I’d want Jared to put up one more great season without falling off the wagon. If he could do that, I’d give him Tom Hanks money.
And it’s a two-way street; yes, Carl is a dick, but players will always get into rifts with front offices. I know this is a newsflash, but money tends to cause confrontation.
April 19th, 2008 at 2:08 pmwow, 135 comments has to be a record for a single post on this site!!!!!!!!!
April 19th, 2008 at 2:40 pmjason and csmqb,
read this: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/582529.html Jared likes KC, he hates Carl.
Jon has done nothing but present calm, rational arguments on the points. You two make everything personal and attack the poster not the argument. Your douchebag yelling is why many people just read this site and refrain from posting.
April 19th, 2008 at 2:56 pmi never yelled anything yesterday i broke it down and he came with nothing
April 19th, 2008 at 3:09 pmwell..i dont really care..the thing is..when you tell someone over and over that we blame peterson just as much if not more than allen and he still keeps sayin the same shit..sayin we only blame allen…sometimes you have to get loud for someone to hear you
April 19th, 2008 at 3:11 pmhave you read this strand at all?
April 19th, 2008 at 3:11 pmread your article first he throws lj under the bus for holding out then he cries because we dont give him a ton of money after his duis then he cries because carl embarassed him over the duis(everyone already knew) if he wanted the big payday then he should have cleaned his act up three years ago
April 19th, 2008 at 3:18 pmJared is going, so lets get the best deal we can. My bet is that Carl is going to stretch this out – you have to have multiple teams actively involved to get the best deal. Jared can stay in Minn. as long as he wants – a deal isn’t going to get signed until Carl thinks its the best deal he can get.
April 19th, 2008 at 3:29 pmtrue that
April 19th, 2008 at 4:45 pmhey jason at the 23 comment what is DRC ?
April 19th, 2008 at 4:54 pmdominique rodgers-cromartie, the best corner in the draft in my opinion. ive been on the soapbox for this guy and if we trade down or could get a #10 to #15 pick we MIGHT be able to get him, maybe adam and all the papa dont reach people would approve
April 19th, 2008 at 5:09 pmhey adam im just giving you a hard time hahahaha
April 19th, 2008 at 5:10 pmwow just thought of this. something i said earlier just hit me, what if after the draft the vikes give him a big offer with a clause thats impossible for us to match?
April 19th, 2008 at 5:30 pmremember the hutch
April 19th, 2008 at 5:31 pmgood: we get 2 1st rounders
April 19th, 2008 at 5:31 pmBAD: THEY”RE IN 2009-2010
April 19th, 2008 at 5:32 pmSON OF A B!@#$
when they got hutchinson they put a clause in the contract that was all but impossible to match!
SON OF A B!@#$
April 19th, 2008 at 5:33 pmTHAT WOULD SCREW US THIS YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 19th, 2008 at 5:34 pmok im back from the ledge. man, that would HURT
April 19th, 2008 at 5:55 pmFirst, I have acknowledged that Allen is partially to blame here. I realize he’s earned the label of an “at risk” player. What I take issue with is Peterson using the “at risk” label to take a considerably low-ball, hardline stance. I can understand paying Allen less than what he would have earned otherwise. But the general sentiment seems to be that the Chiefs made a lowball offer months ago and have barely talked to Allen’s agent since. There’s ego on both sides. Surely, the agent is partially responsible for this too. But look… Peterson got the message out there that Allen’s “at risk” status makes him less valuable; there’s no reason for him to continue with the hard line BS.
Don’t pull that LJ crap. I have acknowledged plenty of times that I am a big LJ supporter and that I’m extremely grateful the Chiefs locked him and Gonzalez up to long-term contracts. I bring LJ up because you make the claim that just because a player makes comments to the media about not wanting to play in KC, that means that we should give up and not even try to offer him a contract. That’s poor logic. If you pay Allen enough money, he will play for Kansas City. This is not about location or fans, this is about money. And yes, I do believe that Jared would take a little less money in KC to stay with his friends than he would take elsewhere. The idea that my small, harmless comment is “throwing LJ under a bus” is beyond ridiculous. The LJ argument is extremely relevant. Remember, it was just a year ago that the Chiefs were shopping LJ around for draft picks to Dallas. It was about a year ago that the talks hit a nasty standstill. I hope that’s a sign that history will repeat itself, but it doesn’t seem promising now.
Second, when you bring up these quotes Allen makes about not wanting to be here, you are putting them in the wrong context. He said a year ago that he loves the fans and the city (see the above linke), but hates the front office. Pretty direct quote to me. His quote about wanting to play for a contender was made after a year of frustrating negotiations that appeared to be going anywhere. I believe the mindset is… “if you’re going to trade me anyway, I’m glad it’s to a contender.” I have heard absolutely nothing to suggest that Jared Allen wouldn’t accept a deal from the Chiefs if they gave him an offer he deserves.
Okay, Jason and csmqb… thank you for 100 times acknowledging that you hate Carl Peterson. Do you want a cookie for that? But what does that possibly have to do with the argument I’ve made, which is that Carl Peterson’s arrogance has damaged this negotiation? If you truly believe he’s a dick, I don’t know why you’re so defensive against the idea that his arrogance completely damaged the Jared Allen negotiation. As I’ve said before, I believe Carl Peterson turned a friendly negotiation into a personal battle. That is consistent with your beliefs, and yet you absolutely trash me for taking that stance. I don’t really get it.
April 19th, 2008 at 6:13 pmAdam, I can understand that logic.
But I’ve never believed a franchise tag ever made much economic sense. You’re going to pay Allen $10 million or so in year 1. That would be about 1/3 of Allen’s total guaranteed money in a long-term contract. That means you can spread the rest of the $20 million over the next 4 years and he becomes a $5 million per year liability, which is reasonable. If the Chiefs can manage to give Allen $10 million for the first 2 years (equivalent to tagging him twice), that means that in year 3-5, you now only owe Allen $3 million per year.
In other words… if you’re going to pay him the huge sum for a franchise tag anyway, I’d rather see that go toward the cost of making a long-term contract more manageable.
But I think you raise an interesting point… as long as the Chiefs feel confident that they can lock him down in 2009 if Allen has another great season.
April 19th, 2008 at 6:19 pmif you would read what i say youd know that i said that jared threw lj under the bus he said look im not the one who held out lj was go back and read YOUR kc star article. HEY BUD YOU NEED TO WORK ON THAT READING-FOR-COMPREHENSION also ive never said i hate CP read my posts
April 19th, 2008 at 7:03 pmalso maybe he just said all that I LOVE THE FANS, CITY, ETC. just to make the sportsbar go when hes gone
April 19th, 2008 at 7:04 pmJon also YOU dont know WHAT THE CHIEFS OFFERED HIM. it may have been a fair market deal
April 19th, 2008 at 7:06 pmi can see the long term advantages, but if it doesnt go down we CAN FRANCHISE him as long as we want
April 19th, 2008 at 7:13 pmJason, I’ve been pretty civil in this argument. There’s no need to be a dick when you’re trying to make a point. You know where I stand in this discussion.
Like I said, there is no economic advantage to franchising a player for multiple years. It’s a bad idea. Secondly, both of us are basing our assumptions based on the limited information that we have. It’s possible the Chiefs offered Allen a fair market deal. However, if history is any precedent, Peterson has a history of lowballing and forcing agents to make the first counter-move. And obviously something was said or done during this discussion that made the entire negotiation personal. Sure, I agree that Allen shouldn’t take it so personally, but you’d have to think that something was said or done to set him off. And I’d have to imagine that it’s based on receiving an insulting offer.
As for the comment about Allen and his comment about the fans, I have never met the man. But I know several people who have. The overwhelming response is that teammates love him, he is arguably the most approachable player to the fans, and some have even went on to say that he’s the face of the franchise because he is probably the player that is most socially involved in the Kansas City community. And in Hard Knocks… does that really look like Jared Allen wasn’t enjoying himself? Anyone who has met him off the playing field will probably tell you that this is surely not a man that hates Kansas City, and he is a player who has consistently reached out to fans who have supported him over the years. So yeah, when people make a comment that he doesn’t like KC or doesn’t want to be here, it goes against everything I’ve heard about the way the man acts in real life.
I guarantee you that Allen loves the team, city, and fans as much as any player on the Chiefs. And it’s a shame that the only thing keeping him out of a Chiefs’ uniform is that he can’t get along with the front office.
April 19th, 2008 at 7:26 pmJon, you have great, great points, and maybe I have been a little too tough on J.A.
But if you look at this objectively and take Carl’s past out of the equation, you’ll see that Jared has a lot to do with this situation turning ugly. I don’t think he should be upset that the Chiefs are still cautious given his past and the money he is asking. Carl is cheap and Carl is a prick, but this time around I would have played it exactly like he did.
You simply can’t make Jared Allen the highest-paid DE in the NFL with his recent past, especially with leverage. Football is a business and I don’t blame Carl for using the DUIs as leverage. It’s what’s best for the franchise.
And, honestly, I’d rather have the draft picks than a disgruntled J.A. making more money than any other player at his position long term. And it appears he will be disgruntled no matter what as long as Carl is here. Yeah, almost everyone dislikes there boss, that hasn’t been said yet and needed to be.
April 19th, 2008 at 7:36 pmAnd let’s try to keep it civil, fellas. We save the harsh words for fake Chiefs fans and rude commenters from other teams here.
April 19th, 2008 at 7:37 pmjon..lets just say this…we are probably saying pretty close to the same thing just in different ways..adam is right…we need to focus the negativity toward the viqueens fan that has made comments in the other topic…so we are on the same track..just with a few different thoughts
April 19th, 2008 at 8:31 pmThe difference is that if you look just at this situation, you will see that both parties are equally guilty at worst. King Carl still has his checkered past, but this time around this situation was different.
April 19th, 2008 at 9:22 pmi wasnt a dick. i just told you to read and remember
April 19th, 2008 at 9:37 pmif oyu want to tell me how wrong i am
thats what i was trying to get out..i was only interested in this situation..i know about the past but we are here for this deal right now
April 19th, 2008 at 9:37 pmjason, I took offense to the “reading for comprehension” and the comments about “crying” when I’m just making my arguments. I don’t dwell on stuff, but just to be clear what I’m calling you out for.
Pretty clear that we all have different arguments with different opinions. Doesn’t make either one of us wrong. I still believe that the front office is largely to blame, but choose to agree if you wish.
As with any good argument, it’s always interesting to hear the other side. I was originally dead set on the idea that the front office was absolutely crazy to get rid of Allen. I still think they’re stupid, but have woken up to the realization that maybe they’re not as much to blame as I originally thought. Good discussion, everyone.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:53 amThis comment was in the Star’s comments and I feel it exemplifies a lot of fans frustration:
Dear Carl,
Please finish upgrading your stadium while raising ticket prices (the only possible reason you could still have your job) and find someone competent to run the football operations. Could it be that you are not capable of both? In case your ego does not allow you to answer that question correctly, the answer is NO.
Please ask your ticket department why after 19 years of owning 18 season tickets, I do not even receive a phone call when I canceled 12 of them. Yes, I once had 17 friends that wanted to watch the Chiefs at every home game. You are the reason for that but that time was over many years ago. After your 5 year plan failed (even though I am certain you intended to quite candidly tell us it was really a 20 year plan that you in all honesty meant to say was to be broken up into 5 year segments) I now have 3 friends that want to go to the games 1/2 of the time and 2 extra tickets that I can (on a very lucky day) trade for 75 cents and a warm, already opened Natural Light just before game time. I’m sure I didn’t receive a phone call from your ticket department because of that huge BLANK white piece of paper on your wall that says “SEASON TICKET WAITING LIST” on top. Newsflash: The brokers are no longer buying the tickets which is the ONLY reason Arrowhead has been “sold out” recently. Is the local TV affiliate willing to “buy” the amount of tickets that will be necessary to keep the home games on TV? Maybe you could use the stadium renovation as an excuse to move the games to CommunityAmerica Ballpark which could probably sell out. At least the players are already used to playing on a field destroyed by soccer games.
Please take a look into the empty stands late and most likely early in the season and ask yourself if you are doing a good job.
I don’t want to see Allen leave. I am sure he does not see much hope for success here in the near or long term future here in Kansas City. He does his job, please do yours Carl. Despite what some fans may believe, the Chiefs are NOT considered a good or even a mediocre team. I am sure Miami would have handled them easily at the end of last year.
Allen has a couple off DUI’s. How many fans could be arrested for DUI after a Chief’s game? Do you complain about the fans leaving Arrowhead drunk? Allen has been great on and from what I understand off the field since his problems so get over it.
I can’t wait for that first pre season game. Particularly the part when you will talk with your lackey and fellow elitist and great great long time friend Twibell about that outstanding young man, the 6th round draft pick you brilliantly found at Southwesternsideofthesouthpartof Kentucky College of Arts and Sciences. By the way, that person you will speak so proudly of will be jobless the next week and I doubt that you will care. Justin Phinissee may have been the worst kick returner in the league last year. Of course, he may have been the best. Who knows? I do know where your brilliant late signee Drummond stood. (On his a** in last)
Yes, I will be watching from home during the pre season. I am a fan and and probably an idiot for buying season tickets which of course include the preseason but not enough of an idiot to actually go to those preseason games. I’ll give those tickets as well as most of the regular season tickets this year to people that don’t get a chance to go but want the “Arrowhead Experience”. The same “Arrowhead Experience” that I am sure will no longer exist once you are done turning it into an elitist country club.
I am sure this will all be solved when you miraculously find 5 starters in this year’s draft.
As a fan I wish you the best of luck. As a realist, I know luck is our only hope.
April 20th, 2008 at 2:04 amCrane, that’s a pretty awesome letter. Here’s another point to keep in mind…
Is it possible that the Chiefs aren’t paying Allen because they don’t have the money because of the renovation?
If so, then the Chiefs should have an obligation to tell the fans the truth.
April 20th, 2008 at 8:38 amJon see the “reading for comprehension” comment came out because you change what i say
April 20th, 2008 at 9:50 amNo 1. i f you’re not jared then i didnt say you were crying, hes the one who’s crying
no. 2 yesterday you thought i said you threw LJ under the bus when in fact the article you posted had jared bringing up the fact that lj held out last year, trying to justify what hes doing right now. all im saying is if you come at me at least READ all that i write
you’re probably a pretty good guy(i think we probably all are) but sometimes just slow down and read
oh and i was wrong you didnt post the article it was asdw in post #136 just thought it was you because he was sticking up for you
April 20th, 2008 at 9:54 amI was cool with the letter until he started defending Jared for his multiple DUIs. Teams, like businesses, often put morality clauses in contracts. Carl doesn’t employ the fans who drink at Arrowhead, so that was an asinine comment if I’ve ever heard or read one.
I guess my whole point is this: there is plenty to be pissed at Carl about without including the Jared Allen situation, a situation that he has mostly handled correctly. I mean, is Pacman Jones going to get through one good year in Dallas and demand a raise and then call Jerry Jones out because he can’t get his sweetheart deal? Sometimes you have to face the music when you ack a fool. I’ve had to personally when I was younger, so this is in no way a hypocritical statement.
April 20th, 2008 at 11:00 amWOW. Well, I haven’t been around for a while and was an interesting read. So considering Miami announcing the signing of Jake Long (See ESPN.com), I will weigh in on my thoughts:
First, I’m on record of saying that I am not a King Carl fan, but it is what it is for at least ‘08 so…I offer the following:
Statistically, for the last several years there has been a trend for running backs who lead the league in carries and yards to be injured. Most of them were also subjected to the Madden Curse *grin* Considering Larry’s 2 previous seasons and production on the field, we needed Larry. Forget the hype in the media. We all wanted him. I did.
Jared Allen – Enjoyed last year absolutely and we all know about the 4th qtr stats and his needed improvement to stop the run. That said, I hate to see him go. To leverage his potential move to Minn, move Turk to DE and go after interier linman to short up the run stop on defense. This move doesn’t mean we loose a player in Allen, but rather gain picks and give Turk a position he’s better suited for in the draft. My thoughts:
1st Choice: Dorsey or Ellis if Available.
17th Pick: A lot has already been stated about Jake Long as a legitimate top 10 pick as and offensive lineman. After that, its a stretch to capture AND pay a Clady or Otah top money when they still have skill development ahead of them.
Getting additional picks next year especially in the 2nd round is a bonus. We get good players and don’t pay the coin.
As for another 3rd round. We need players now. Given all the existing picks we currently have, adding another 3rd rounder still means we have good players available.
I think this adds to the rebuilding strategy and still gives us options for picks next year. I realize Jared Allen was coming into his own and played well this past year. I don’t see his DUI’s as an issue but if we can speed up the rebuilding process through his departure so be it. At least it means we’re adding to the rope for Karl. He either succeeds or move him out.
HEADS UP IF WE DRAFT ANYONE FROM UCLA ON SATURDAY!!!!
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:56 pm