The Patriot Waste

by Chiefs

 

The following is a two part post. Part I is The Patriot Way Or The Patriot Waste and
Part II is The Effects The Patriot Waste Has Had On The Kansas City Chiefs

Part I: The Patriot Way Or The Patriot Waste?

Did the Chiefs get any bang for their buck? It’s been three years since Scott Pioli brought the Patriot Way to Kansas City. So, are they any better for it?

Did Clark Hunt make a mistake when he hired Scott Pioli? Did Hunt erroneously buy into the idea that Pioli was a golden boy who could bring his Midas touch and– abracadabra– the Chiefs would be Super Bowl contenders?

Scott Pioli’s first three years here have not been a grand success and, by his own admission, he acknowledges that the Todd Haley hiring was not a mistake. Yet, Haley is gone baby gone and our Chiefs are doing their best impression of a toxic dump site.

So: what is the Patriot Way and has it actually helped the Chiefs?

It’s an idea that’s been misinterpreted and filled with conjecture and, because it hasn’t been understood by fans, it’s been turned into a mystical, enviable, gospel-like football ideology.

In the real world of everyday NFL football, it has been the cause of a lot of study and tons of speculation, not to mention that half the league is trying to copy it.

As a result, a great number of employees have been hired away from the New England Patriots but, none, not a single player, head coach or executive, has been able to reproduce the so-called magic of the Patriot Way, elsewhere. Zero Super Bowl wins. Zero Super Bowl appearances.

Because there are so many ex-Patriot coaches, players and executives strewn across the league who have faltered… the Patriot Way should be called… the Patriot Waste.

As for the Chiefs, they’ve expended so much time, energy and personnel resources trying to “be like Mike,” or in this case, the Pats.

However, the Patriot Way phenomenon could be completely explained away with the simple knowledge that 31 teams don’t have a quarterback named Tom Brady, and never will.

So: what is the Patriot Way?

To find out, we must separate what the Patriots Way really is from what is likely only myth.

The Quarterback
Yes, Tom Brady is one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. We’ve heard it all before, but, the eternal thorn in the paw of each GM is that Brady was drafted so late that every team in the league had multitudinous opportunities to grab him. Imagine all the white-hot conversations owners have had with their general managers about why they passed on Brady so many times. What that has done, is place an enormous amount of pressure on GMs to, 1) not let it happen again, ever, and 2) to duplicate the supposed “deft” drafting by the Patriots.

In his article called, “Super Bowl XLVI: Revolting Against the Patriot Way, Daniel Bogard says,

“Tom Brady is probably the greatest example of this dichotomy of luck or skill… Granted, the draft is arguably the biggest crapshoot in all of professional sports. Yet, we live in a “coulda, woulda, shoulda” society that is further perpetuated by a media that is not accustom to  forgetting mistakes or allowing those who make them to live them down very easily. Not only has Brady been a nightmare to GM’s, he is a nightmare to opposing coaches as well.”

The Myth: Selecting Tom Brady was a clever drafting move.

The Reality: It was a serendipitous act of ill-gotten reasoning, an accidental coincidence. The Patriots didn’t set out that day to draft Tom Brady, his value merely fell into their laps. The Patriots never had any idea what they even had until after Drew Bledsoe went down and Brady stepped onto the field of play. If the Patriots had a theme song for Brady it would be “My Favorite Mistake.”

The Midas Touch For Dummies
The Patriots have regularly brought in under-performing players from other teams and utilized them so well that there is a night and day difference when they get to New England. Wes Welker, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss and most recently Ochocinco. Welker is still going strong. Dillon helped win a Super Bowl and Randy Moss caught a record 23 TD passes in one season. Everyone’s still waiting for Ochocinco to catch on but he may not even be activated for the Super Bowl. Belichick also allowed Albert Haynesworth to touch the hem of his garment last summer but alas, no healing.

The Myth: Bringing damaged or rejected players in has changed them miraculously.

The Reality: The organization has been set up to handle a few aberrant personalities and those players are motivated to take advantage of what is likely their last or best shot at a title.

Exchanging Value for Unwanted Players By Ejecting Them in a Timely Manner
Curtis Martin, Richard Seymour, Randy Moss, Mike Vrabel, and Matt Cassel are good examples of the Patriots moving players at the perfect moment in time and maximizing their return in the process. Bill Polian says of the Patriots trading methods:

“…they have done a phenomenal job trading. They really have gotten great value for players that either they can live without or don’t fit their system any longer.”

The Myth: The Patriots have prophetic knowledge about the future and can predict when a player is about to go south for the rest of his career.

The Reality: The player is right in front of them every day so, they can see if a player is declining. They also don’t get too attached to any one player, except Brady, so they can move a player any time they want to. And they do.

Bill Polian is right, the Patriots do a great job in this area, but any team could do this. Most teams aren’t going down this road because of the risks involved. However, the Patriots do it because they can leverage the high profiles of their players, which exist because the team is so successful, annually going to the playoffs 9 out of the past 11 years, which means more TV time for their players, which can make an average player on their team a nationally recognized household name.

Drafting Better Than God Himself
The Patriots do a fantastic job in the draft. It’s not just perception. This is one area in which I will concede the Patriots do an incredible job. No myth here. The Patriots consistently rock the draft and make trades that benefit them in the long run. What I especially like that they do regularly is to trade back and pick up extra draft picks, with which they are able to increase the odds that someone is going to make the team or have an impact. They are solid in this area and more teams could duplicate this practice.

Trading back in the draft gives the Patriots the chance to trade up when they want to as well. The flexibility to move up and down the board is the ultimate power on draft day and has helped them fill specific needs with high quality players. Plus, it allows them to “get their man” a high percentage of the time.

Last year, when Scott Pioli traded back in the first round, picking up an extra third round choice and then drafting Justin Houston, was the first time I thought the Chiefs were operating on draft day like the Patriots.

The major problem the Patriots are facing right now is the same problem the Colts solved during Peyton Manning’s reign. Because their offense would score so quickly and often it frequently forced the opposition to play from behind, the Colts designed their defense to keep the opposition from playing catch-up and filled their roster with players who could do that job. The Patriots’ current offense scores at a furious pace and the reason they’re rated 31st in the league in total defense is because other teams are forced to go into catch-up mode and end up scoring a lot of points too.

The point is, the Patriots need to draft better towards that end. Stopping the pass. However, the Patriots are masters when it comes to drafting and have been for quite some time.

I concede that there’s no myth here, but it points out that one exceptional administrative competency (drafting really well) and one exceptional quarterback (you know who) makes up the totality of magic that is known as the Patriot Way.

Of course, then there’s the subject of coaching.

The Head Coach
Before I say what I’m going to say next I want you to know that I think Bill Belichick is one of the best coaches in the league today and has consistently improved as a head coach over the last dozen years. That being said, over the course of Bill Belichick’s head coaching career, he has a .769 winning percentage in the regular season when Tom Brady is behind center and when Tom Brady is not taking snaps for Belichick, his winning percentage is .464. By the way… the .464 includes Matt Cassel’s 11-5 record in 2008.

Myth: Bill Belichick is right next to Vince Lombardi on the list of greatest coaches ever.

Reality: We may never know how great Bill Belichick is unless he sticks around after Tom Brady retires.

Coaching Byproducts
Quite a number of Patriots coaches and executives have been hired away from the organization in the past 10+ years and everyone is trying to recapture the magic that has been known as the Patriot Way, but why? Because they produced 3 Super Bowl winners in the early part of the last decade? I guess that would make anyone sit up and take notice.

However, just because your organization has hired a former Patriots coach or executive doesn’t mean your organization is going to also be successful.

If your organization has hired someone from the Patriots family tree, then you’ve wasted your time. That’s the Patriot Waste.

Don’t believe me? Take a gander.

Charlie Weis left the Pats to coach college ball in 2005. Notre Dame hired Weis as their head coach and he had success there his first two years but, in his last three years his record was 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6, which led to his ousting.

The Chiefs’ current head coach Romeo Crennel left the Patriots to be the head coach for the Cleveland Browns, where he in no way distinguished himself. In four seasons he had a .375 winning percentage, and although he won 10 games one year, he couldn’t win more than 6 games in any other season and never made the playoffs.

Thomas Dimitroff, the current General Manager for the Atlanta Falcons, was director of college scouting from 2003 to 2007 for the Patriots. Serving as the General Manager for the Atlanta Falcons from 2008 to present, Dimitroff has helped to build a strong talent base there but Atlanta has only one division title, in 2010. Atlanta has had no playoff victories.

Scott Pioli served as Vice-President of Player Personnel for the Patriots from 2002-2008. He was then hired to serve as General Manager by the Kansas City Chiefs who won an AFC West Division title in 2010 but after three seasons,  he has a .437 winning percentage.

Eric Mangini coached the New York Jets from 2006-2008 and the Cleveland Browns from 2009-2010 only to leave the game with a .413 winning percentage and is now is a spot analyst for ESPN.

Josh McDaniels served as quarterback coach and then offensive coordinator for the Patriots from 2004 to 2008, then was hired by the Denver Broncos to be their head coach. McDaniels won his first 6 games with the Broncos but, after 1 and ¾ seasons, he was fired with a .393 winning percentage and a host of other bad decisions including a videotaping scandal, personnel alienation, bad trades and poor drafting.

Jim Schwartz has been the head coach of the Detroit Lions for the past three years taking their record on an upward journey from, 2-14 to 6-10 to 10-6 but only one playoff visit. No playoff victories.

Other coaches in the Bill Belichick coaching tree have gone on to coach elsewhere. Al Groh coached the New York Jets for one season (2000) and finished 9-7. In the college ranks Kirk Ferentz is at Iowa, has a 108-87 record and has tied for first in the Big Ten twice. Pat Hill is at Fresno State with a 112-80 record.

Nick Saban has won championships at the college level (LSU and Alabama) but didn’t have success in the pros. He coached the Miami Dolphins from 2005-2006 with a .469 NFL winning percentage. Although he is considered part of the Belichick coaching tree, technically Saban was first hired into the NFL by Jerry Glanville as a secondary coach for the Houston Oilers, 1988-89.

Out of all the executives and coaches who are ex-Patriots, only John Mitchell has been a part of a Super Bowl championship team. Mitchell is an assistant coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers and has won championships at both pro and college levels. However, because Mitchell is a part of perhaps the most storied organization in he NFL, it would difficult to give all the credit to Bill Belichick. Besides, he is an assistant coach, and he worked for Bill Cowher in the ’90s, so his move to Pittsburgh was a coming home of sorts.

Aside from John Mitchell, there have been no other coaches, assistants or executives from the Bill Belichick coaching tree who have been a part of a Super Bowl championship.

The Patriots are like a factory dumping toxic waste throughout the league but, for some reason everyone is still drinking their water. Nobodies dying but, nobodies celebrating either. Certainly not the Chiefs.

Part II of The Patriot Waste will post on Wednesday, February 1st at 12:00 Central time.

 

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shut up kc's in a position to win games we arent an elite team and haven't been in quite some time the GM doesnt go out and play he manages players and if im correct besides depth we have nothing else to gripe about we'll get holes filled and you all will regret acting like you know more football than pioli the guy who helped new england become great

i have no problem with the patriots and i understand the fact that they are a great team and perenial playoff contenders that being said going on what 4 years now since pioli took over? i'm so SICK of the comparisons betwwen the chiefs and patriots and us being patriot west WE ARE THE CHIEFS! and patriot pride doesnt hold a candle to Chief Pride. notice you never seem to meet a patriot fan on the street but No matter where you are if there is a chief fan in your vicinity you WILL know it. Its the biggest reason we are different from the patriots and I'm Proud of it

@kctenn44 WE ARE THE CHIEFS! Absolutely! I'm so tired of hearing about the PW. An underlying motivation of my post is to lay the PW to rest. There's just not proof to believe it anyway.

You could also argue that neither Crennel nor Mangini got a legit shot in Cleveland...an organization which has always been just slightly better than the Millen era Lions.

The only quibble I would have with the above list is Schwartz. Way to early to say he didn't pan out. Indeed, he has taken a team that was winless and worse than awful and built them into a winner. Sure, he has been helped by high draft picks that worked out, and not having Millen around to turn to S*#$ everything he touches, but Schwartz and his crew have to be given at least part of the credit for developing the draft picks.

@RichKeilholtz I mention Schwartz in part II... and you're right.

Also, I think part of the genius of Bellichick's drafting is the way he is always acquiring more picks. That gives him the leeway to take chances and miss. It is hard to get seven starters with seven draft picks but a heck of a lot easier to get seven starters with 14 draft picks.

Fantastic work Ladner. I think there are a combination of things at work here. Brady and The Hoodie are obviously a big part of the process but sometimes it is all about how you spin it. For instance, you can say that Bill has never won a Super Bowl since Crennel and Weis left. How important were they to the process? I think to win a SB a team needs the right combination of people working well at the right time. That includes players. They also need a little bit of luck. Good coaching, QB play will keep you consistently in the playoff hunt. Good free agent pickups and drafting will help you win some playoff games. A little bit of luck and you might win it all. If you only have some of those things, it is hard to succeed.

@Arowhead_Addict I think you hit the nail on the head... it's the right combination of people. Combination. If you take a great bottle of wine... and take an eye dropper... and squeeze a little bit of wine into 31 glasses of water... you don't get 31 glasses of great wine. It becomes diluted and that's exactly what has happened with Patty cakes. In the meantime, Pioli thinks he had way too much to do with their success and that's one of the reasons he doesn't trust others. That... has diluted the Chiefs chances.

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Thanks for a very honest and fair appraisal. I have been saying basically the same thing ever since Pioli and his entourage came to town. I know it is sounding like it is patting one's self on the back to totally disagree with the so-called experts. But what can I say? I think there is a better way to build a football team. I am not going to say there is an only way, but I also will say that I think there are better ways. First if I were to start to build a team I would look what has worked for the Chiefs in the past. The Chief's under Vermiel and Al Saunders used a version of the Air Coryel offence and was the #1 rated offence in the NFL with a good, but not elite Trent Green and a good, but not elite running back. So, If I were going to build my team, I would beg, borrow or steal to get Al Saunders as my HC or OC. Then to build my defence I would hire a Buddy Ryan diciple to build my defence. I think that would be my better way to build a super bowl team.

@jimfromkc Agreed Jim. I think what made Saunders so good is maybe the best offensive line in the history of the game when he was coaching the offense. If Pioli would go after Nicks hard and grab up Al he would be doing himself and the franchise some good.

@Danny W Danny, I'd love to see Pioli go after Nicks but, he probably would say... that Nicks is too expensive and not fit into the proportional scheme of salaries of existing Chiefs players. There's something to be said for his frugality but, it's also keeping the Chiefs from getting ahead.

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First of all great article. Second you make good point regarding the ability to work the draft the Patriots just seem to be one sfep ahead of the rest of the leauge. Do you think it has anything to do with getting lucky with Brady then once you score a francies QB you are free to work the draft for specific lower profile positions or just go for quantity? I wonder how the rest of the league that currently have francies QB's grade in the draft year to year?

@ArrowFan Good points... at the very least we know that teams who have elite QBs use them... or take advantage of... their QB to draw high quality free agent to their team. Once you have success... for whatever reason... it gives you all kinds of leverage.

First of all great article. Second you make good point regarding the ability to work the draft the Patriots just seem to be one sfep ahead of the rest of the leauge. Do you think it has anything to do with getting lucky with Brady then once you score a francies QB you are free to work the draft for specific lower profile positions or just go for quantity? I wonder how the rest of the that currently have francies QB grade in the draft year to year?

There is a contradiction here. On one hand it is pointed out that most of the Patriot way success is due to Tom Brady. On the other hand it is also pointed out that without Brady, Matt Cassel led the team to an 11-5 record. It doesn't add up.

@otis8989 You're right to look at teh season that Cassel took over... but then you also have to look at the six other seasons Belichick didn't have Brady or Cassel because he had a .450 winning percentage in those seasons.

I'm not sure what your point is exactly. That trying to beg, borrow or steal from or otherwise emulate another team's success is a flawed endeavor? Maybe it is. But what else are you going to try to pattern your dreams after? Failure? Mediocrity? The unknown? There is no denying that the Patriots have been successful. However, it is too simplistic to pin all the success on only one or two or three factors. Sure, Brady has a boatload of talent and a great NFL resume. But is he great inherently? Or is he great because he fits so well into the football environment he works in? Is he an independently superior talent that would flourish anywhere in any system? Or is he the beneficiary of synergism with the coaching and teammates he has been blessed to work with? For my two cents, I say he makes any team better. But does he make any team the Patriots?

The best you can hope for when you try to emulate success is to pick up some pieces of past success, add to them, and try to mold them into future success. That is what everyone in the NFL is trying to do. Is Scott Pioli's time here in Kansas City a 'grand success'. I would say, no, not yet also. But I'm feeling optimistic in my soul about this team. The defense is on the verge of being a force, and the offense when healthy should have enough talent to score regularly. Let's not make any mistake: if not for critical injuries, we are very likely talking about a team that is coming off winning the AFC West two years in a row. I'm excited about next year! Why shouldn't we Chiefs fans feel that our own success is right around the corner? Because it has been so long? So what. No one is going to cry for us. We're all trying for the same prize each year. We can't change the past; the future is all any team and fan has. And right now, I would say that the futrue of the Chiefs doesn't look all that bad.

@Kurt Rauch I wish I agreed the future doesn't look all tha bad. Lets see we got Crennel as HC and many are already looking for his replacement in 3 years (OC may be candidate in waiting), Our stars are at their peak, our QB is respectable, and the time should be now but were are the supporting cast, depth and veteran free agents to fill in until draft choices arrive. I guess you view Bowe and Carr as replaceable free agents. Pioli or somebody, blames Haley for everything wrong, will Pioli change the way he has operated since arriving? Add to your bright future, our offense is lacking and where are the new coaches. I read today.....the NE TE coach, a Ferentz, might be a candidate Pioli might find acceptable. He is 28 and never called a play or designed a game plan in his entire life. But he fils the Pioli need to be comfortable. If that does not keep you awake tonight, you are missing something. LOL

@Kurt Rauch Hey... I know it doesn't sound like it in the post but, I'm really excited about our team this next year too. The defense is really going to be great to watch and the offense will be very good too, depending the outcome of some off season moves. I just thought it was important to point out that everyone seems to have gotten carried away with the whole "Patriot-love-fest-o-rama." When the reality of that is... not one NFL head coach who came from their system has a winning record elsewhere (except Al Groh, 9-7). That's shocking to me and I think people should sit up and take note. In the meantime... Go Chiefs!

@laddiemorseOwnership is such a big factor in system success also, though it is often overlooked or 'behind the scenes'. This offseason is such a critical and telling time for the Chiefs because, in my opinion, much of the foundation has been layed for a possible championship football team using--let's call it "prudent, small-market fiscal policy". This team has it's share of young, skilled, difference-makers on the football field. The question of the offseason, and ultimately of Clark Hunt, is--is the environment in place to allow Pioli the freedom to do what needs to be done to keep the difference-makers they have developed? And is this franchise committed to acquiring more expensive pieces (ala big-market style) that have been perhaps developed elsewhere (but are available in free agency)--while the window of opportunity to build a skyscraper on their established foundation is still open.

@Kurt Rauch @laddiemorse First I would like to say this is a fantastic discussion. Im enjoying it....ok...I like what you were getting at about Brady Kurt. Often I get into heavy football discussions with some Pat fan buddies and its always about Brady. I think hes a good talent....great sure, but I really believe he's a product of a system. So rarely do NFL teams get it absolutely right with their QB. Did the Pats? No...they got lucky. They found a dude late that was an octagon peg that fit into an octagon hole. I really believe that a lot of college QBs fail at the next level because the system they are drafted to or signed to just doesn't fit their skill set. On rare occasion that great one comes and they become system a la Peyton, Joe, eh...Elway. I look at Matt Cassel, I see a guy who fits the NE system...and now Hoyer...fits...whos gonna pay a kings ransom for him next off season...but I digress... The NE way is a solid philosophy on football...build thru the draft...move value when the time comes...continue to reload. Its not rocket science and its certainly easy to imitate. However, you need the front office guys to be good at their job and scout well. I think that this is the direction we are heading...yes I get pissed about some of our personel or lack thereof. But these last 2 drafts have been pretty good...I hold SP accountable for the first draft but I also grant a mulligan. Notice after that season he fired almost everyone in the scouting department and the results have been good. Our core is getting stronger....its coaching we need. I think SP and RAC are gonna be very careful on these next few decisions so we don't take a bigger step back than we took this year. The talent of the core on this team is good enough to win our division every year from here on out....this is an exciting time to be a Chiefs fan. Regardless if we get Peyton, splash the FA pool, or even God forbid not sign Carr and Bowe, we will continue to draft well. This team is on the up and whereas people catch up to the system in NE, we'll be talked about in the manner of the talent we have and other teams inability to match up. No gimmicks, no tricks, just a great football team. Go Chiefs

Tribalrage, great post. I'm right with you on all counts except I don't think we'll be able to tell... how great Brady was vs. how well he fit his "octagon" peg into the "ocatgon" NE hole.... until he's gone and the future NE QB steps in and we see if the NE success was more Belichick or Brady.

@laddiemorse I'm suprised we havent gone after there rookie backup from Arkansas, you know the kid who smoked some grass and was taken in the third.

Landon, I respect your opinion, and it was a nice piece backing up your points. but to play devil's advocate (and maybe you can address these in your part 2) here are some counterarguments. I'll start with the coaches. Valid points, but you can't be that surprised that these coaches didn't have instant success in very different roles. Many of the coordinators - Crennel, Weis, McDaniels, etc are still viewed around the league as geniuses in their craft. Weis did a pretty great job here in my opinion, #1 rush offense/developing Cassel, Crennel has done very well on the defensive side of the ball. To be honest we had a rough year, keep the coaching continuity and take away the injuries and there is no way in hell the Chiefs wouldn't win the division. Switching coaching roles is tough, especially the transition to a head coaching level or to transition from college to pro. As a coordinator you focus on one thing all day every day, as a head coach you oversee everything, in college you also must deal with recruiting and academics, also I personally think dimitroff is doing a great job in Atlanta, and I think most people in Detroit are satisfied with Schwartz. Pat Hill was a fantastic college coach, don't get me started on Saban. Now on to the drafts and the program in general. Pioli's dirst draft was terrible I admit. Even if you count Tyson Jackson as a success the rest of the draft besides Succop was pretty horrid. But let's assume for now we give that year a pass, different scouts perhaps? The last two years have been pretty successful in my mind. In 2010 you got 6 out of 7 guys who can start, i mean c'mon seriously? This past year depends a lot on Baldwin and Hudson but I think the future is bright for that draft class as well. So have things been perfect? no, but to be honest Pioli has done a lot of positives here as well, I have much love and respect for Peterson but we were in the Shitter back then and it was time for a change. Pioli to all of us appeared to be the man of choice, and in the three years he's been here he's left the chiefs with honestly probably the brightest future of any of the teams in the AFC West (unless you think the Chargers will finally play up to their talent).

@Krans24 I was pretty shocked when I began to research all of the coaches who took NFL head coaching positions only to find not a single one of them has a winning percentage above .500. Admittedly, many of the coaches, most of them in the college ranks, have done very very well. But, at the NFL level, the Patriot Way has been way over blown. I'm just sayin......

@laddiemorse @Krans24 btw sorry for writing your name wrong, I'm on vacation right now with my family and my brother's name is Landon I guess it was in my head as I typed haha. And again I think you make great points just trying to show some of the other side as well, and while I'm not saying Pioli is the greatest I am fairly happy with the job he's done the first three years, but we do need to keep going up

@Krans24 Well... it may sound like I don't want Pioli. The reality is... I want him to grow beyond the boundaries of the system and the program he came from. It seems that he is limiting himself and for the Chiefs to truly grow into a consistent playoff contender, Pioli will need to become his own man. No problem with the name thingy... it's a lifelong battle since my parents decided to bless me with an old Scottish family name. BTW... wish I was on vacation!

The Patriot way is actually the Bilichick way.

@hannzo24 If anything, it's the Brady Way.

@laddiemorse @hannzo24 Actually I think its The Cowboy Way Love that movie If you look back to the Cowboys when Jimmy Johnson was there, you will see a lot of similarities.

smithskylar 6 pts

shut up kc's in a position to win games we arent an elite team and haven't been in quite some time the GM doesnt go out and play he manages players and if im correct besides depth we have nothing else to gripe about we'll get holes filled and you all will regret acting like you know more football than pioli the guy who helped new england become great

kctenn44 47 pts

i have no problem with the patriots and i understand the fact that they are a great team and perenial playoff contenders that being said going on what 4 years now since pioli took over? i'm so SICK of the comparisons betwwen the chiefs and patriots and us being patriot west WE ARE THE CHIEFS! and patriot pride doesnt hold a candle to Chief Pride. notice you never seem to meet a patriot fan on the street but No matter where you are if there is a chief fan in your vicinity you WILL know it. Its the biggest reason we are different from the patriots and I'm Proud of it

laddiemorse 205 pts

kctenn44 WE ARE THE CHIEFS!

Absolutely! I'm so tired of hearing about the PW. An underlying motivation of my post is to lay the PW to rest. There's just not proof to believe it anyway.

RichKeilholtz 5 pts

You could also argue that neither Crennel nor Mangini got a legit shot in Cleveland...an organization which has always been just slightly better than the Millen era Lions.

RichKeilholtz 5 pts

The only quibble I would have with the above list is Schwartz. Way to early to say he didn't pan out. Indeed, he has taken a team that was winless and worse than awful and built them into a winner. Sure, he has been helped by high draft picks that worked out, and not having Millen around to turn to S*#$ everything he touches, but Schwartz and his crew have to be given at least part of the credit for developing the draft picks.

laddiemorse 205 pts

RichKeilholtz I mention Schwartz in part II... and you're right.

Arowhead_Addict 491 pts

Also, I think part of the genius of Bellichick's drafting is the way he is always acquiring more picks. That gives him the leeway to take chances and miss. It is hard to get seven starters with seven draft picks but a heck of a lot easier to get seven starters with 14 draft picks.

Arowhead_Addict 491 pts

Fantastic work Ladner.

I think there are a combination of things at work here. Brady and The Hoodie are obviously a big part of the process but sometimes it is all about how you spin it. For instance, you can say that Bill has never won a Super Bowl since Crennel and Weis left. How important were they to the process?

I think to win a SB a team needs the right combination of people working well at the right time. That includes players. They also need a little bit of luck. Good coaching, QB play will keep you consistently in the playoff hunt. Good free agent pickups and drafting will help you win some playoff games. A little bit of luck and you might win it all.

If you only have some of those things, it is hard to succeed.

laddiemorse 205 pts

Arowhead_Addict I think you hit the nail on the head... it's the right combination of people. Combination. If you take a great bottle of wine... and take an eye dropper... and squeeze a little bit of wine into 31 glasses of water... you don't get 31 glasses of great wine. It becomes diluted and that's exactly what has happened with Patty cakes. In the meantime, Pioli thinks he had way too much to do with their success and that's one of the reasons he doesn't trust others. That... has diluted the Chiefs chances.

jimfromkc 45 pts

Thanks for a very honest and fair appraisal. I have been saying basically the same thing ever since Pioli and his entourage came to town. I know it is sounding like it is patting one's self on the back to totally disagree with the so-called experts. But what can I say? I think there is a better way to build a football team. I am not going to say there is an only way, but I also will say that I think there are better ways. First if I were to start to build a team I would look what has worked for the Chiefs in the past. The Chief's under Vermiel and Al Saunders used a version of the Air Coryel offence and was the #1 rated offence in the NFL with a good, but not elite Trent Green and a good, but not elite running back. So, If I were going to build my team, I would beg, borrow or steal to get Al Saunders as my HC or OC. Then to build my defence I would hire a Buddy Ryan diciple to build my defence. I think that would be my better way to build a super bowl team.

Danny W 137 pts

jimfromkc Agreed Jim. I think what made Saunders so good is maybe the best offensive line in the history of the game when he was coaching the offense. If Pioli would go after Nicks hard and grab up Al he would be doing himself and the franchise some good.

laddiemorse 205 pts

Danny W Danny, I'd love to see Pioli go after Nicks but, he probably would say... that Nicks is too expensive and not fit into the proportional scheme of salaries of existing Chiefs players. There's something to be said for his frugality but, it's also keeping the Chiefs from getting ahead.

ArrowFan 205 pts

First of all great article. Second you make good point regarding the ability to work the draft the Patriots just seem to be one sfep ahead of the rest of the leauge. Do you think it has anything to do with getting lucky with Brady then once you score a francies QB you are free to work the draft for specific lower profile positions or just go for quantity? I wonder how the rest of the league that currently have francies QB's
grade in the draft year to year?

laddiemorse 205 pts

ArrowFan Good points... at the very least we know that teams who have elite QBs use them... or take advantage of... their QB to draw high quality free agent to their team. Once you have success... for whatever reason... it gives you all kinds of leverage.

otis8989 7 pts

There is a contradiction here. On one hand it is pointed out that most of the Patriot way success is due to Tom Brady. On the other hand it is also pointed out that without Brady, Matt Cassel led the team to an 11-5 record. It doesn't add up.

laddiemorse 205 pts

otis8989 You're right to look at teh season that Cassel took over... but then you also have to look at the six other seasons Belichick didn't have Brady or Cassel because he had a .450 winning percentage in those seasons.