Chiefs Refusing To Pay Todd Haley?

@jimfromkc No they should't pay him a million dollars AND pay for an investigation out of their own pocket. IF they aren't paying him, which hasn't been confirmed by either party, they wouldn't do it unless they believe they have grounds to do so. There is no way you would "admire how they handled it" if they did conduct an investigation any findings would be discredited because people like you who already doubt and are looking for reinforcement of the negative thoughts you already hold would say "well what do you expect they paid for the investigation, did you really think it would turn out any other way".

@KC MikeG Only if they let the NFL hire the investigating firm and they just footed the bill. It is called transparency, A million dollars or two is pocket change to an organization that is dealing in hundreds of millions.

@jimfromkc And here in the real world of facts and proof the NFL already decided there wasn't any of either to support them investigating. While a million dollars is pocket change is not the point - it is still huge money we could use to attract a better OC or pay the other coaches more who will be helping the team next year instead of giving it to Haley while he makes more money coaching on of our competitors then again if he can't get a job in the NFL he might need that for greens fees.

@zippy74 your right.... I have been against that oppinion all along, but now that some who calls himself a journalist, despite the fact it seems they can't read or write, says so... welll your point is proven! Awesome! Careful who you get in bed with, let this hack journalist prove your point and it might just come back to bite you.

@Gjrchief Sorry chief. But I had that opinion long before this article came out!!

Are you a former emplyee? if not then this is just an opinion

@rockygentleman He's mad cause he ain't gettin his checks. I would be too. What rule did he break. Just a cheap, redassed, Raider thing to do. We're better than that.

@dongtogolo Dont get me wrong i would be mad too but until we know the entire story which i doubt we ever will everything is just speculation and opinion

@Arrowhead Adventurer Just like a boss.

@Arrowhead Adventurer Doesn't change the fact that CRAPOLI is a douchebag and Clark Hunt is a tightwad!!!

@zippy74@Arrowhead Adventurer Try growing up and saying something intelligent instead of your pathetic, immature name calling.

@ArrowFan Are you smokin crack?

@Gjrchief I'm glad you mentioned the spelling. Another words, really? Sheesh. A lot of people still don't know the difference between then and than. There are even a couple of AA writers with this problem. I won't mention who because they're good guys and I like what they wroye. I have no problem with typos, I have them all the time but blatant bad spelling from adults is inexcusable.

@Gjrchief I like what they write that is. See what I mean about the typos?

@big chief @Gjrchief yeah, "another words" is pretty bad, I'll admit that.

@Big Matt @big chief @Gjrchief the defence and offence misspellings grind my gears

@TrappedInDonkeyland @BIG @Gjrchief What about, "For all intensive purposes..." or "a dominate defense." It's dominant dammit!

@TrappedInDonkeyland @BIG @Gjrchief me too.

@Gjrchief The reason we debate issues involving our team is because we're fans of the team. If it comes out that they're refusing to pay their last coach, particularly after what we've been hearing about this team lately, yes, that is very much worthy of discussion. By your rationale we're supposed to sit here and say nothing until everything is 100% settled? I'm sorry, but thats crazy. Particularly given what that we know this team tries to keep us in the shadows whenever possible. Wanting to talk about a report on a website doesn't mean we have no patience. It means we're really interested in the goings on behind closed doors. I'm WAY interested in that, never made any bones about it. You may not be interested in it, but you're here discussing it.

@Big Matt @Gjrchief I agree Matt. It really doesn't interest me too much what goes on in the offices of Arrowhead. I would like to quit hearing about corruption though. I wish they could at least try to hide the fact that they're greedy assholes. Just because I personally don't want to discuss the non-football side of the Chiefs doesn't mean it isn't worthy of discussion.

@Big Matt I don't have problems with debate and oppinion... my problem is half the people on here I read want pioli tar and feathered when this tweet shows nothing. People speak in fact and certainty, when Haley has not even filed a complaint to the league! What happened to the America where people are innocent until proven guilty. Show me some proof that the chiefs are not paying Haley, and have no legal reason not too, and ill jump on board this crazy hate filled train. Until then I don't see anyway this story gives our team a blackeye. No references, no quotes, no citations, no evidence, poor spelling and grammar = garbage! What happened to journalistic integrity, get the story right, get all the facts, CHECK the facts, and get it to the masses.

@Gjrchief@BIG Amen brother testify! I will jump on that wagon too if they are proven to be doing something wrong but when so many immediately take anything said by anyone as the truth then that's where I take exception and respond with the other obvious possibilities that could be true like maybe he broke his contract and they have every legal right to not pay him a million. It's like some of our fans can't wait to jump on any gossip put out there even when it's coming from an Arizona "journalist". Ever think maybe he was a buddy of Haley's with an axe to grind for Pioli firing him? Or maybe he wants to get in good with Haley to get an inside source if Haley gets hired by the Cards again or maybe he just wants exposure in the media. The point is we don't know anything is true for sure so when "discussing" it just seems wrong to insult people by calling them names and attacking our own organization. Can't see the benefit it that . Just like with the disgruntled fired employees story only one side is presented with little if any supporting facts and yet some jump on the attack Pioli/Hunt bandwagon swearing the rumor is the gospel.

@KC MikeG @Gjrchief @BIG Usually where there is smoke there is fire also. Really all I want to focus on this offseason is how many more 'pieces' the Chiefs acquire and how they fit into a potentially good team. But, my intuition tells me that success starts at the top--so these 'stories' bother me. It feels almost as if I have to choose to blissfully ignore the rumors of infidelity in order to continue in my happy marriage to all things Chiefs! Come on already. I'm begging you, Mr Hunt, please do something positive this offseason to reinforce some faith in your owner/leadership.

@Kurt Rauch Are you inside my brain?

@jimfromkc So your perception becomes truth automatically since you refuse to believe anything from anyone still involved with the Chiefs in any way shape or form but whatever anyone else, like disgruntled recently fired employees or journalists who clearly have ulterior motives, says no matter how despicable or having little if any verified information. And I'm the one with the warped mind? Right. What exactly is the "crap" Pioli is getting away with? Refusing to pay a complete failure like "Hobo Haley" a million dollars next year for not working for us after the "Crap" he pulled? That is a great business decision based in the same standards and morals you claim to live by. What would you have Pioli do? Give Haley a million dollars for pissing away this year? Definitely warped thinking Jim.

Perception is truth unless proved false. That is just how it is, I didn't invent it. the crap I am talking about is stonewalling every legitimate news source in the city. Go to New York or Boston and try that and the media will not only believe what ever you are accused of, they will crusify you. As far as Haley being a failure, His failure would fall back on the one who hired him in any other business. He is just the fall guy for a failed franchise that puts profits above winning. I stated when Clark took over the franchise and said he was committed to winning the super bowl, that we could tell if he was serious or not by what he did with the excess cap money. Now the koolaid drinkers took me to task and said he was saving it to sign his own players. Well that was 3 years ago and we still have a huge stash of cash that the hunts are stuffing their jeans with every year. That should tell even the mentally challenged that he isn't concerned with winning. He should have had Bowe and Carr locked in to a long term contract long ago. Now it is a leverage thing. The closer they come to the deadline the more leverage they have. I would not be surprised if both players are gone by 2013.

@jimfromkc If Bowe and Carr walk then I'm with you on most of what you say. However they haven't left the building yet.

@ArrowFan @jimfromkc but it COULD happen, so lets just blame Pioli for making it a possibility and just assume the worst. THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!

@TrappedInDonkeyland @ArrowFan @jimfromkc Chicken Little strikes again!

@jimfromkc So could you help a mentally challenged reader to understand how resigning over the last two years DJ, Charles, Flowers and Hali shows Hunt/Pioli aren't committed to winning? Instead of insulting those of us that disagree with you by using facts why don't you try listing the FA's we should have thrown the money at that would have helped us based on how they played last year not how they played before or how great they would have been here even though that is nothing but fantasy. Perception is YOUR truth only and not truth unless proven (not proved) to be true. To prove that this isn't just my perception of perception and to confirm that you didn't invent it I have provided the following: "Psychologist Jerome Bruner has developed a model of perception. According to him people go through the following process to form opinions." Not truths Jim! "When a perceiver encounters an unfamiliar target we are opened different informational cues and want to learn more about the target.In the second step we try to collect more information about the target. Gradually, we encounter some familiar cues which helps us categorize the target. At this stage the cues become less open and selective. We try to search for more cues that confirm the categorization of the target. At this stage we also actively ignore and even distort cues that violate our initial perceptions. Our perception becomes more selective and we finally paint a consistent picture of the target." According to Alan Saks and Gary Johns, there are three components to Perception. "The Perceiver, the person who becomes aware about something and comes to a final understanding. There are 3 factors that can influence his or her perceptions: experience, motivational state and finally emotional state. In different motivational or emotional states, the perceiver will react to or perceive something in different ways. Also in different situations he or she might employ a "perceptual defence" where they tend to "see what they want to see". The Target. This is the person who is being perceived or judged. "Ambiguity or lack of information about a target leads to a greater need for interpretation and addition."The Situation also greatly influences perceptions because different situations may call for additional information about the target."

Truth is what people believe, Maybe not in the dictionary, but in real life. Many people are spending their life behind bars, not because they were proven guilty, but because the jury was convinced that they were guilty. So Perception is important and truth if it can't be proven false. All the gobbley gook in the world is not going to save the Hunt's and Pioli from being thought of as cheap and vindictive, unless they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they didn't do it. Above is a scenario I posted giving a road map towards changing public opinion. By the way, another nail in the Hunt's cheap coffin is the fact that the best coach the Chief's ever had, had to sue the Hunt's for money owed him, and that was Hank Stram. so this is not something new. Just that most of the posters probably weren't alive and remember it.

@jimfromkc Truth is what can be supported as fact in real life. People go to jail or prison when proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by evidence being presented and argued against. instead of providing all the gobbley gook, in the world which I'm sure only you know how much that is, how about we agree that if Hunt/Pioli sign 2 or 3 FA's that make a difference, have a good draft, resign Bowe and Carr leading to a division championship and a playoff win that will be proof of their desire to return our organization to being a respected winner. By the way your nail in Hunt's cheap coffin is wrong - Lamar Hunt offered to pay Stram his $100,000 per year contract for the remaining 7 years of his 10 year contract if he didn't coach elsewhere. This is straight from the pages of the Milwaukee Sentinel and the Florence Times - Tri Cities Daily on December 28th, 1974 - fact not your perception/"the way I want to remember it" like you have obviously done - again.

@jimfromkc can we stop using the drinking of he kool aid reference..making me thirsty

@jimfromkc If you didn't like Pioli from the get go your view is just as biased as those who want to believe he does no wrong. for myself I'm going to sit back and see how this thing plays out.

I alway like to be honest and let everyone know where I am coming from. I also give my opinion without any if's and's or but's. So if I am wrong, I won't try to weasle out of what I said. I might apoligize if it is appropriate. Done that any number of times in my life. But the way I look at it if you ain't got the balls to be wrong, you shouldn't be blogging.

@KC MikeG you said it brother!!

@KC MikeG Now hang on Mike. No where in my article did I say I thought the Chiefs didn't have a reason to do this. I even tried to find a reason that they might. If Haley talking to Babb voided his contract then they have every right not to pay him as far as I am concerned. If he signed a contract, he signed a contract. Same goes for them though. If he didn't do anything to void it, they shouldn't try to spin it to say he did. Whether we like it or not, however, this DOES shine a bad light on the Chiefs. For the reasons I mentioned. All the things I listed in the article have made the organization we support look bad to a number of people. That is a fact that my opinion has nothing to do with. I think we can agree on that, right? "I know a lot of you think the media makes too much of these kinds of things. Some of you also don’t necessarily believe all of these allegations. That is fair. There is no proof that the Chiefs bugged Haley’s phone. There is no proof that this report about the Chiefs refusing to pay Haley is true. The Babb report could be just a bunch of ex-employees making things sound worse than they are. I generally tend to believe that when there is smoke, there is fire. Especially if there is a lot of smoke. No matter what side of the fence you are on, you can’t deny that there is a lot of smoke around Arrowhead these days and that means the organization is going to look bad." I think those two paragraphs were pretty fair. I gave my opinion but I wouldn't call this article hating.

@Arowhead_Addict Paddy - I wasn't referring to you ignoring the possibility of there being a justifiable reason for them to not pay Haley just the folks jumping on the attack Hunt/Pioli bandwagon as usual. You clearly presented a brief counter point of the option that it is all a load of BS. My problem is with the assumption that any of this puts us in a bad light and that you post blogs only from people saying crappy things about our team that are obviously fans of our AFC rivals - WTF? A few "journalists/bloggers" want to spin this as the negative is true which perpetuates the "negative light on us" story when in reality everyone of your "negatives" could just as easily end up being a positive. I'll elaborate - This incident is just another in a long line of reports that are shining an ugly light on the Chiefs. NOT TRUE IF PROVEN TO BE WRONG -Three former employees are suing the Chiefs for age discrimination -PIOLI SAYS "EVERYONE OVER 40 IS GETTING THE AXE" RIGHT? SO HOW MANY EMPLOYEES OVER 40 ARE STILL EMPLOYEED? HOW MANY GOT FIRED? AND WHY ARE ONLY 3 FILING SUIT INSTEAD OF ALL OF THEM? HOW MANY GOT PROMOTED? BLANTLY OBVIOUS FACTS IGNORED BY THE MEDIA AND MOST ON AA. -Pioli had to fire his first head coach in less than three years - SOMEONE WHO POSSIBLY BROKE HIS CONTRACT OR FAILING AT HIS JOB OR ACTING AS CRAZY AS HALEY (PALKO, BRICH/GAITHER, HOBO LOOK) BEING FIRED IS NOT "UGLY LIGHT" ON OUR ORGANIZATION. IT SAYS WE ARE ONLY GOING TO ACCEPT THE BEST PERFORMANCE FROM OUR EMPLOYEES AT EVERY LEVEL "POSITIVE LIGHT". -The Babb report that quoted many current and former employees complaining about the atmosphere at Arrowhead. AS A SEASON TICKET HOLDER I HAVE SEEN IMPROVEMENT ON THE BUSINESS SIDE OF THE ORGANIZATION LIKE THE 65 TOSS POWER TRAP PRODUCTIONS, THE COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE MARKETING DEPARTMENT, RESPONSES TO MY COMMUNICATIONS IN WRITING AND BY PHONE, OPTIONS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO PAY FOR TICKETS OVER TIME INSTEAD OF ALL AT ONCE TO NAME A FEW MORE "POSITIVE LIGHTS". THIS ORG HAS GOTTEN LAZY AND BEYOND MEDIOCRE AND I APPLAUD THE CHANGE IN ATMOSPHERE. MAYBE BETTER COACHES AND PLAYERS WILL WANT TO COME HERE IF WE ARE BEING RUN RIGHT. -Haley’s belief that his office and maybe even his phone were bugged THE TEAM HAS EVERY RIGHT TO MONITOR THE FACILITIES AND WHERE IS THE PROOF THEY BUGGED HIS CELL PHONE? BABB SAYS HALEY SAYS IS HEARSAY UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. -And now the organization potentially refusing to pay Haley the balance of his contract AGAIN - SOMEONE WHO POSSIBLY BROKE HIS CONTRACT GIVING THEM EVERY LEGAL RIGHT NOT TO PAY HIM IS NOT "UGLY LIGHT" ON OUR TEAM UNLESS YOU ASSUME THE OPPOSITE W/O ANY SUPPORTING FACTS. THE BOLD WAS USED TO DISTINGUISH MY RESPONSES TO YOUR POINTS not an indication of me being angry or yelling at you.

KC MikeG: Aren't you the guy who loved Haley? You're coming across as much pro Pioli as you were pro Haley a few months ago.