I Never Want To Go Back

by Chiefs

Oh my god.

That’s all I could say all Sunday afternoon. Well, and this:

We’ve all been Chiefs fans a long time, folks.  We’ve sat through some exhilirating wins.  Some of us who are Generation X or older actually remember a playoff win.  But it may be something like a decade since the Kansas City Chiefs have had a win this satisfying, upending the perfect season of the Green Bay Packers and leaving them sucking linberg in Arrowhead.

All phases were clicking.  The pass rush was relentless. Our corners made everyone but Jermichael Finley invisible.  The play calls on both ends were unpredictable and magnificent.  Succop couldn’t miss.

And most of all, we had a quarterback.  Broncos castoff Kyle Orton was acquired for essentially three end-of-year games for the hefty pricetag of $2 million.  But at this point, showing Chiefs fans what it’s like to have a QB who can read a defenses, make multiple choices in a given play, throw the ball away when needed to, and project alpha male confidence is worth its weight in gold.

I never want to go back.  I don’t want to ever have the Chiefs ever play another game in non-emergency situations with a QB under center who doesn’t know what he’s doing.  No NFL team should, and after a string of Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen, Tyler Palko, and yes, Matt Cassel, it’s time the Chiefs put this era behind them and embrace an entirely different philosophy regarding the QB position.  One I’ve been advocating for years on this blog.

For the past three years, we’ve endured franchise QB Matt Cassel, a passionate competitor who does stellar work in the community who nevertheless doesn’t have the “it.”

Let’s go over the usual list, and I’ll make this brief since we’ve had this discussion a million times:  Cassel cannot make multiple reads unless it’s a mandated, quick two-read that a play is asking for.  If someone is surprisingly wide open who isn’t his first or second read, there’s virtually no chance Cassel locates him.  His arm strength is actually just fine (Cassel haters drastically underrate his ability to sling a deep ball), but his accuracy is every bit as horrible as the haters suggest.

He can’t make in-play decisions at the drop of a hat.  He takes costly sacks, as well as the accompanying sack yardage, instead of throwing the ball away.  He has good size and is plenty athletic, but that doesn’t translate to him being remotely elusive in the pocket.  His audibles are nonexistant, and not very successful when they are.   This all translates to absolutely terrible performances when the run game isn’t working.  Cassel has never had a good game as a Chief when there wasn’t a runner beating up the opposing defense.

Worse yet, he surrenders to anything remotely close to tight coverage.  He doesn’t throw many interceptions, and often holds onto the ball too long, because he largely refuses to fit the ball in tight places.  If you’re at least in the vicinity of the Cassel’s wide receivers, he’s not throwing to them.  He’ll forfeit that play to you every time, and it puts immense pressure on the rest of the offense to produce.

His enthusiasm or frustration have little to no effect on his teammates.  He celebrates with them, but rarely if ever chews them out when they are not doing their piece.  He is a classic beta male, which can serve your team just fine if it’s in a deoderizing win streak, but is incapable of rescuing the team when it starts to reel.

The difference between him (as well as Huard and all the others since 2005′s Trent Green) and what we saw out of Kyle Orton was night and day.  And Orton’s a middle-of-the-pack QB; he isn’t all that accurate either, and is prone to making poor decisions especially in the red zone.

But his competency was and is striking against the Packers. And now the entire franchise is talking about how amazing he looked (he looked competent, not amazing), and now all of these weapons on offense, from Baldwin to Breaston to Bowe to McClain to McCluster… this offense becomes relatively intimidating to go up against.

To me, the choice is simple. I have more fun watching a competent quarterback, or at least a very young (NOT Matt Cassel’s 29), legitimately promising quarterback (NOT Tyler Palko or Thigpen) who is developing before my eyes, than in watching an awful quarterback who stymies the offense.

From here on out, that should be the sole focus of our 2012 offseason.  I don’t even care what GM Scott Pioli wants to do or what he is likely to do.  It is in the best interest of this team to invest heavily in the QB position, so we never have to endure consistently pathetic QB play ever again.

1. Find a way to trade up and acquire a franchise QB in this draft.  I don’t care what it takes.  Andrew Luck is probably out of consideration, but Robert Griffin or Matt Barkley present legit franchise QBs of the future.  This must happen.

2. If it doesn’t happen, splurge on Peyton Manning if/when he hits the market and still wants to play.  Give him a Joe Montana deal.  Three years, $60 million.  This team is too talented to wallow in Cassel or even in Orton mode.  Let’s see what this jalopy can do with an amazing QB under center.

3. If neither #1 or #2 happen, you must cut Matt Cassel, and sign Kyle Orton to a three-year stopgap deal that allows us to be flexible in the near future.

4. Whatever happens, we must make a significant effort to bring in a very good backup QB.  A veteran castoff like Sage Rosenfels maybe.  Or a promising youth who has so far struggled, like Brady Quinn, or Jimmy Clausen.  Make them compete with Ricky Stanzi.  It’s not enough to get good at the QB position, we must get deep.

It’s time to grow up as a franchise.  For too long we’ve relegated our QBs to being just good enough to get by.  It’s dumbed the team’s prospects down, occasionally made them boring to watch, and puts far too much pressure on everybody else in the organization.

This past weekend showed us how much fun football can be, and that’s intrinsically tied to the quarterback position.  There is absolutely no reason not to follow wherever that feeling takes us.

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Barkley's going back to SC; Indy says they won't trade Manning, and it looks like they might not have the 1st pick anymore, anyway. Whatever happens, it ought to be an interesting draft. Let's just get Carr and Bowe signed, shall we?

I don't think KC should try to land a franchise QB in the first round. We have too many holes that need to be filled immediately to give up picks. Both lines in particular. O line still needs to be the round 1 pick UNLESS a top teir talent at QB happens to fall. Brees was a 2nd round pick. That seems to have worked out. Weeden may be older, but he could make a decent pro and would be available in the 2nd or 3rd round. I'm sure there are other good prospects to be found outside of the first round as well. No on Manning. Maybe, if we draft a QB this offseason.. Maybe. He doesn't have three years left (he might not even have a full season left). We'd need have that guy to take his place on roster. I'm not an Orton fan. He's not my pick to be starter next season, but I'd be alright with that as long as they are adding players at the position. Clausen would be okay. Not Quinn... NO.

I think we should go with Orton he is the safest most reliable option we have. Drafting a 1st round qb is bad enough but you're suggesting we trade up? You think that if we draft a qb then all of our problems will be solved? Think about the Vikings and jaguars they invested in a 1st round qb and now what. They have to wait 2 or 3 years to see if they pan out. The chiefs don't have time for that we're too talented. Let Orton go and play, and can people stop talking about this RG3 stuff. He is very talented but he is a project. No way he takes us to the playoffs next year. Use your draft picks to build a team now worry about a franchise qb when Orton gets older.

Sorry Andrew, but this is what I would call a kool aid piece. How many points did you make and the only position mentioned was QB. When you have an Off line that is overmatched by almost any good team and a defensive line that has possibly got 3 players who couldn't start for most other teams and all you can think about is QB. And this is just one game. I have seen Orton go into a funk where he will be looking more like Palco than Manning. So I am not willing to give away draft picks for a QB who in most instances has a 60 40 chance of being what we think he is at the NFL level. I would much rather use every pick we have either getting three starters in the first three rounds and backups in the rest of the draft. I see the need of both left and right tackles with a couple of backups and another pass catching TE for the offence. And if we are going to stick with the 34 as our base defence it is well past the time that we got a very large NT who can anchor the def line and at least one tall athletic DE to take Dorsey's place. We also need a very good safty to play alongside Berry. I would draft a QB such as Weeden or Tannenhill if they fall to the third round for quality backup. Stanzi looks kind of frail to me and I wonder about his ability to stay healthy in an NFL environment.

@jimfromkc Good comments, fuel for thought only.....you expect Pioli to get 3 starters and the rest backups out of one draft. He would have to be on his A game.

@tm1946 With the weakness and inconsistency at the positions I mentioned I don't think it is too far out to expect 3 starters. Of course I don't expect too much from Pioli if he is going to put more importance on the right 53 instead of talent. But I believe there is talent there to get 3 starters in this draft. We have some glaring holes in this team and one game doesn't make it go away. I am thinking that the kid from Ohio St. might fall to us. He is a very good talent and may fall because of other reasons. I also think Weeden might be a starter over Orton before the season is over. One of the RT's such as Adcock might be available too. So I think it is realistic to expect that we could get 3 starters and some good backups from this draft. We will see what kind of a guru we have in Pioli, won't we?

@jimfromkc You did a better job saying it than me, thanks. My point for 3 years Pioli "thought processes" have been WE way, zone blocking OL, and 3-4 defense. For the most part he (and his coaches) have tried to fit square pegs in round holes. Add his "average success" in drafting and no free agents, what do you have left - a team that seems not a lot better than when he took over. Yes we could get 3 starters and some depth with the last draft but not based on what Pioli has done in the last 3 drafts, the safe choice and until last year "talent' was almost a bad word over "right 53". I know little about college players but isn't Weeden a bit old for the NFL? By the time he got ready to play, wouldn't he be ready for social security?

@jimfromkc Sorry Christmas season, .....WE way - NE way. 3starters and depth in NEXT draft.

@tm1946@jimfromkc I agree with you about Weeden. He doesn't even seem like an upgrade even over Stanzi. But from my point of view this team is way better than what it was when Pioli took over. Much better receivers, Thigpen was our quarterback, our o-lone was pathetic, I mean B Rich looks like an all pro compared to who we had at RT. I've tried to forget his name, #66. Our d-line is improved, Berry and Lewis are much better than Page and Pollard. More depth at CB. That being said we still have a ways to go but I do see a lot of progress. I don't see us in a position to get a franchise QB in this draft. They will all be gone by the time we get to pick. I do see Pioli trading down like last year and adding picks. If he does that then we stand a good chance of getting 3 starters or at least 3 quality players who will contribute. I see us needing a RT, a good bruising RB and an OG. Then a safety, TE and ILB for depth. We did get Lewis, Asamoah, Moeaki and Houston all 3rd round or later and Bailey looks like he's coming along nicely now.

@tm1946 If you get a chance to watch him play, you will see what I mean. Actually his age is a plus in my opinion. He seems much more mature and comfortable in the games I have seen. A lot of what a player learns from setting on the bench is what weeden has learned in major league baseball. Maturity, and letting the game come to you instead of trying to carry the world on your shoulders. I venture to say that he would be a starter in his first year at some time. Stanzi doesn't have near the arm that Weeden does. I watch Iowa games whenever i can get them and have seen him play and he was good behind off lines that ferentz put together, and I think Iowa and Wisconsin really coach up their off lines. By the way he will be playing in the fiesta bowl on Jan 2, so you will be able to compare him with Luck who is the top rated QB in this draft.

I agree with just about everything you said, with the exception of recommendation #2. I don't think signing Manning at this stage in his career is a good idea. But everything else is right on. It was fun to watch a Chiefs QB that looked DANGEROUS. Without a QB that threatens the defense, they sit on short routes and just squeeze down on the offense until it bleeds. Orton made them pay for blitzing, improvised, found open receivers, and made them defend the whole field. What a great thing to see.

Manning will most likely retire I think. If not, how much longer will he play and do we want a $100 million old qb with health questions? Just seems like a reach. I think if they get a chance to draft Luck or Jones they should but bringing in a declining player just seems like more of the same old taking other peoples left overs like tge Chiefs have done forever.

I'm not sure a 1st and 2nd (in different years) wouldn't be worth it to get Manning. IMAGINE this team with Peyton (and JC and Berry and Moeaki). KC would immediately be the team to beat in the AFC West and among the elites in the NFL. Still need a young QB in addition to Stanzi within the next year or 2 to groom for the end of Peyton's run, though.

Hey Crock I am old enough to remember the Chiefs winning a playoff game. As a matter of fact I remember their Super Bowl victory. What's really funny is I've been waiting for payback on the Packers for 45 years! The first Super Bowl when they blew us out. They really rubbed it in our faces. So blowing their perfect season was especially sweat for me. The great, all powerful, unbeatable Packers were dominated by the Chiefs. Womp womp woooomp

Solid article Crock. I wanted Cassel to succeed, I really did but watching Orton really brought it home how much better this team would be with a true franchise QB. I mean even our defense was aided by the fact that they only had to play 23 or 24 minutes instead of the 35+ minutes with Cassel and Palko. They were fresh in the 4th quarter and it was Green Bay's D that was gassed. I don't think we'll be in a position to get a can't miss franchise QB in this draft and I don't see Pioli trading up, it's not his style. He likes to add picks not give them up. Besides I get the impression that he believes he has something in Stanzi especially since he is Ferentz's boy. Which brings me to the next point. Before we start wishing for that franchise QB I'd like to know what we have in Stanzi. There are a lot of people that think he could become a very good pro. If we don't have a shot at the playoffs in the last week I'd love to see Stanzi play against a first team defense in a regular season game. I know it would be his first game and you can't expect too much but i would just like to see him out there.

@calchiefsfan Just wondering "who" are the "lot of people that think he (Stanzi) could become a very good pro"? Guess not Haley or Crennel, although he is active for games now.

@tm1946 A lot of people who who post on this sight that watched him play at Iowa the last couple of years. There was also the article, (I'll try and find it for you), that had a grading system that claimed him to be the best QB coming out of college last year. They also showed the scouting report on Stanzi that was almost identical to Tom Brady's which is why Brady went in the fifth round and we all know how that turned out.. And no I'm not saying he's the next Tom Brady. What I am saying is that there is enough positive talk to get me curious to want to see how he will perform at the pro level. As for Haley and Crennel not playing him. Haley's judge of talent is extremely questionable, i.e. Jamaal Charles, Jarrod Gaither among many. I can't blame Crennel for playing Orton over Stanzi while we still have a shot at the playoffs but Haley playing Palko over Stanzi now that I do question. Crennel did move him to 2nd on the depth chart.

@tm1946@calchiefsfan Stanzi may not get his shot this year but he will get his shot. Give him time and let him simmer. That is the definition of a developmental player.

If it was only true. It would mean that Pioli, the great director, would have a night like Ebenner Scrooge with about 53 ghosts visiting. Until he does something you suggested, I predict Pioli will do what he does best, think about it. If we win out, even make the playoffs, the 2011 Chiefs are missing lots of parts, as well as coaching. Pioli would have to change everthing he stands for, draft a QB in first, he found one in 6th round. Big name coach, no way that would mean he might have more say in what happens than Pioli, who would pick up pens from the conference room. On and on, I say Pioli plays it the way he was taught in NE and the fans be damned.

sidibeke 259 pts

Barkley's going back to SC; Indy says they won't trade Manning, and it looks like they might not have the 1st pick anymore, anyway.

Whatever happens, it ought to be an interesting draft. Let's just get Carr and Bowe signed, shall we?

Erich 123 pts

I don't think KC should try to land a franchise QB in the first round. We have too many holes that need to be filled immediately to give up picks. Both lines in particular. O line still needs to be the round 1 pick UNLESS a top teir talent at QB happens to fall.

Brees was a 2nd round pick. That seems to have worked out. Weeden may be older, but he could make a decent pro and would be available in the 2nd or 3rd round. I'm sure there are other good prospects to be found outside of the first round as well.

No on Manning. Maybe, if we draft a QB this offseason.. Maybe. He doesn't have three years left (he might not even have a full season left). We'd need have that guy to take his place on roster.

I'm not an Orton fan. He's not my pick to be starter next season, but I'd be alright with that as long as they are adding players at the position. Clausen would be okay. Not Quinn... NO.

KC_for_life 23 pts

I think we should go with Orton he is the safest most reliable option we have. Drafting a 1st round qb is bad enough but you're suggesting we trade up? You think that if we draft a qb then all of our problems will be solved? Think about the Vikings and jaguars they invested in a 1st round qb and now what. They have to wait 2 or 3 years to see if they pan out. The chiefs don't have time for that we're too talented. Let Orton go and play, and can people stop talking about this RG3 stuff. He is very talented but he is a project. No way he takes us to the playoffs next year. Use your draft picks to build a team now worry about a franchise qb when Orton gets older.

jimfromkc 45 pts

Sorry Andrew, but this is what I would call a kool aid piece. How many points did you make and the only position mentioned was QB. When you have an Off line that is overmatched by almost any good team and a defensive line that has possibly got 3 players who couldn't start for most other teams and all you can think about is QB. And this is just one game. I have seen Orton go into a funk where he will be looking more like Palco than Manning. So I am not willing to give away draft picks for a QB who in most instances has a 60 40 chance of being what we think he is at the NFL level. I would much rather use every pick we have either getting three starters in the first three rounds and backups in the rest of the draft. I see the need of both left and right tackles with a couple of backups and another pass catching TE for the offence. And if we are going to stick with the 34 as our base defence it is well past the time that we got a very large NT who can anchor the def line and at least one tall athletic DE to take Dorsey's place. We also need a very good safty to play alongside Berry. I would draft a QB such as Weeden or Tannenhill if they fall to the third round for quality backup. Stanzi looks kind of frail to me and I wonder about his ability to stay healthy in an NFL environment.

tm1946 183 pts

jimfromkc

Good comments, fuel for thought only.....you expect Pioli to get 3 starters and the rest backups out of one draft. He would have to be on his A game.

jimfromkc 45 pts

tm1946 With the weakness and inconsistency at the positions I mentioned I don't think it is too far out to expect 3 starters. Of course I don't expect too much from Pioli if he is going to put more importance on the right 53 instead of talent. But I believe there is talent there to get 3 starters in this draft. We have some glaring holes in this team and one game doesn't make it go away. I am thinking that the kid from Ohio St. might fall to us. He is a very good talent and may fall because of other reasons. I also think Weeden might be a starter over Orton before the season is over. One of the RT's such as Adcock might be available too. So I think it is realistic to expect that we could get 3 starters and some good backups from this draft. We will see what kind of a guru we have in Pioli, won't we?

tm1946 183 pts

jimfromkc

You did a better job saying it than me, thanks.

My point for 3 years Pioli "thought processes" have been WE way, zone blocking OL, and 3-4 defense. For the most part he (and his coaches) have tried to fit square pegs in round holes. Add his "average success" in drafting and no free agents, what do you have left - a team that seems not a lot better than when he took over. Yes we could get 3 starters and some depth with the last draft but not based on what Pioli has done in the last 3 drafts, the safe choice and until last year "talent' was almost a bad word over "right 53".

I know little about college players but isn't Weeden a bit old for the NFL? By the time he got ready to play, wouldn't he be ready for social security?

tm1946 183 pts

jimfromkc

Sorry Christmas season, .....WE way - NE way. 3starters and depth in NEXT draft.

calchiefsfan 180 pts

tm1946jimfromkc

I agree with you about Weeden. He doesn't even seem like an upgrade even over Stanzi. But from my point of view this team is way better than what it was when Pioli took over. Much better receivers, Thigpen was our quarterback, our o-lone was pathetic, I mean B Rich looks like an all pro compared to who we had at RT. I've tried to forget his name, #66. Our d-line is improved, Berry and Lewis are much better than Page and Pollard. More depth at CB. That being said we still have a ways to go but I do see a lot of progress.

I don't see us in a position to get a franchise QB in this draft. They will all be gone by the time we get to pick. I do see Pioli trading down like last year and adding picks. If he does that then we stand a good chance of getting 3 starters or at least 3 quality players who will contribute. I see us needing a RT, a good bruising RB and an OG. Then a safety, TE and ILB for depth. We did get Lewis, Asamoah, Moeaki and Houston all 3rd round or later and Bailey looks like he's coming along nicely now.

jimfromkc 45 pts

tm1946 If you get a chance to watch him play, you will see what I mean. Actually his age is a plus in my opinion. He seems much more mature and comfortable in the games I have seen. A lot of what a player learns from setting on the bench is what weeden has learned in major league baseball. Maturity, and letting the game come to you instead of trying to carry the world on your shoulders. I venture to say that he would be a starter in his first year at some time. Stanzi doesn't have near the arm that Weeden does. I watch Iowa games whenever i can get them and have seen him play and he was good behind off lines that ferentz put together, and I think Iowa and Wisconsin really coach up their off lines. By the way he will be playing in the fiesta bowl on Jan 2, so you will be able to compare him with Luck who is the top rated QB in this draft.

bobber 8 pts

I agree with just about everything you said, with the exception of recommendation #2. I don't think signing Manning at this stage in his career is a good idea. But everything else is right on. It was fun to watch a Chiefs QB that looked DANGEROUS. Without a QB that threatens the defense, they sit on short routes and just squeeze down on the offense until it bleeds. Orton made them pay for blitzing, improvised, found open receivers, and made them defend the whole field. What a great thing to see.

big chief 151 pts

Manning will most likely retire I think. If not, how much longer will he play and do we want a $100 million old qb with health questions? Just seems like a reach. I think if they get a chance to draft Luck or Jones they should but bringing in a declining player just seems like more of the same old taking other peoples left overs like tge Chiefs have done forever.

sidibeke 259 pts

I'm not sure a 1st and 2nd (in different years) wouldn't be worth it to get Manning. IMAGINE this team with Peyton (and JC and Berry and Moeaki). KC would immediately be the team to beat in the AFC West and among the elites in the NFL.

Still need a young QB in addition to Stanzi within the next year or 2 to groom for the end of Peyton's run, though.

calchiefsfan 180 pts

Hey Crock I am old enough to remember the Chiefs winning a playoff game. As a matter of fact I remember their Super Bowl victory. What's really funny is I've been waiting for payback on the Packers for 45 years! The first Super Bowl when they blew us out. They really rubbed it in our faces. So blowing their perfect season was especially sweat for me. The great, all powerful, unbeatable Packers were dominated by the Chiefs. Womp womp woooomp

calchiefsfan 180 pts

Solid article Crock. I wanted Cassel to succeed, I really did but watching Orton really brought it home how much better this team would be with a true franchise QB. I mean even our defense was aided by the fact that they only had to play 23 or 24 minutes instead of the 35+ minutes with Cassel and Palko. They were fresh in the 4th quarter and it was Green Bay's D that was gassed.

I don't think we'll be in a position to get a can't miss franchise QB in this draft and I don't see Pioli trading up, it's not his style. He likes to add picks not give them up. Besides I get the impression that he believes he has something in Stanzi especially since he is Ferentz's boy.

Which brings me to the next point. Before we start wishing for that franchise QB I'd like to know what we have in Stanzi. There are a lot of people that think he could become a very good pro. If we don't have a shot at the playoffs in the last week I'd love to see Stanzi play against a first team defense in a regular season game. I know it would be his first game and you can't expect too much but i would just like to see him out there.

tm1946 183 pts

calchiefsfan

Just wondering "who" are the "lot of people that think he (Stanzi) could become a very good pro"? Guess not Haley or Crennel, although he is active for games now.

calchiefsfan 180 pts

tm1946 A lot of people who who post on this sight that watched him play at Iowa the last couple of years. There was also the article, (I'll try and find it for you), that had a grading system that claimed him to be the best QB coming out of college last year. They also showed the scouting report on Stanzi that was almost identical to Tom Brady's which is why Brady went in the fifth round and we all know how that turned out.. And no I'm not saying he's the next Tom Brady. What I am saying is that there is enough positive talk to get me curious to want to see how he will perform at the pro level.

As for Haley and Crennel not playing him. Haley's judge of talent is extremely questionable, i.e. Jamaal Charles, Jarrod Gaither among many. I can't blame Crennel for playing Orton over Stanzi while we still have a shot at the playoffs but Haley playing Palko over Stanzi now that I do question. Crennel did move him to 2nd on the depth chart.

ArrowFan 205 pts

tm1946calchiefsfan Stanzi may not get his shot this year but he will get his shot. Give him time and let him simmer. That is the definition of a developmental player.

tm1946 183 pts

If it was only true. It would mean that Pioli, the great director, would have a night like Ebenner Scrooge with about 53 ghosts visiting. Until he does something you suggested, I predict Pioli will do what he does best, think about it. If we win out, even make the playoffs, the 2011 Chiefs are missing lots of parts, as well as coaching. Pioli would have to change everthing he stands for, draft a QB in first, he found one in 6th round. Big name coach, no way that would mean he might have more say in what happens than Pioli, who would pick up pens from the conference room. On and on, I say Pioli plays it the way he was taught in NE and the fans be damned.