Thoughts From The Armchair: Crennel, Orton, and Life Without Haley

by Armchair Addict

Earlier this last week when I was talking to my wife about who the Chiefs played on Sunday I concluded my observation with “so we’ll probably lose by 30 points, but then again it would be just like the Chiefs to play horrible for weeks and then be the ones to knock off the undefeated world champions.” When I said it it, I was joking and didn’t really think we had a shot. Little did I know I would end up being right. The Chiefs really made a statement to the entire NFL yesterday. They have not given up even after debilitating injuries, a disappointing season, and a head coaching change. More importantly, they sent a message that when they add Eric Berry and Jamaal Charles back to this roster teams should be afraid.

On a day like today it is important to enjoy this great win. The Chiefs are still in all likelihood out of the playoffs, but after a season like this it was a great moral boost. Chiefs fans deserve to be happy and enjoy this win for a while. That having been said, we should also resist the urge to go overboard on what this win means. Some fans are already talking like Crennel and Orton are now destined to lead us to the Super Bowl next season. They both had fantastic debuts on Sunday. They both deserve a ton of praise for their performances (as do the offensive play callers). So just how much weight should we put into what we saw on Sunday?

After the jump I’ll give my thoughts on Crennel as the long-term HC, Orton as the long-term QB, and life without Todd Haley.

Okay, let’s start with Romeo Crennel. Following yesterday’s win it’s easy to sell Crennel as the HC next season. Look, Crennel did a great job of having the Chiefs ready to play after a tumultuous week. That having been said, if Crennel coached the Chiefs against the Packers 10 times, Green Bay probably wins 8-9 of them. It just happened that the one that counted was one that the Chiefs pulled out. Don’t get me wrong, the Chiefs earned that win and Crennel had a lot to do with that. I just don’t think we should crown Crennel the full-time head coaching gig because of this one (albeit great) win.

That having been said, I do 100% believe that the Chiefs MUST make Crennel their next head coach. In fact, that was originally going to be my sole topic this week. I thought it might take a little selling coming off something like a 41-17 drumming. Now that we’re coming off a win, the challenge becomes selling this as a logical choice, not one based strictly off the “high” of knocking off the undefeated Super Bowl champs.

I do however, feel very strongly that Crennel belongs at the head of the list of candidates for the job next season. Others will try to sell the likes of Bill Cowher, Jeff Fisher and maybe even Kirk Ferentz. I’m here to tell you that Crennel should get the job over all of them.

What’s the one thing we can feel positive about this season? What is the one area of this football team that has, at times, looked like they are developing into one of the better units in the NFL? The answer is the defense. Yes, they have given up some points this year. However, when your offense can’t pick up a single first down at times its hard to keep NFL-caliber offenses at bay for an entire game. We have at times however, seen glimpses of a defense that looks like it may be the best since the days of Marty and Derrick Thomas. I think Crennel deserves the bulk of the credit for this.

Originally that is why I didn’t want Crennel considered for the HC job. I wanted him to keep his focus 100% on the defense. However, now that Crennel has both been named the interim head coach and clearly stated that he wants to a head coach again, I don’t think the Chiefs can turn back. Bill Cowher isn’t coming to KC. He would want an amount of control that Pioli just won’t give him. Any other candidate on that list, even Jeff Fisher, and I think there is a good chance that Crennel would walk away from KC. Frankly, with how this defense has improved and with the GB win hyping his reputation, if the Chiefs don’t hire him, another team may and keeping him as DC may not even be an option.

Now, do I think Crennel is a better head coach then Jeff Fisher? No, I don’t think Crennel has earned that. Fisher has a proven track record and Crennel doesn’t. However, if Fisher is the next coach, and Crennel leaves town what happens to our defense? Fisher is a 4-3 defense coach. Would Fisher want to change it? Would Pioli allow that? If Pioli forced a 3-4 defense on Fisher without a DC like Romeo there to run it, could it work? If Fisher switched us to a 4-3, could we make that work? I know a lot of people have suggested that because of Glenn Dorsey, but who’s more important to this team Dorsey or Tamba Hali and DJ? Yes, Hali and DJ have experience in a 4-3 but neither of them were the dominant All Pro type of players that they have become in Romeo’s 3-4 defense. Even the emerging rookie Justin Houston would be in question because he played in a 3-4 in college as well. Going with any other HC other than Crennel puts the one bright spot of this team right now in turmoil and creates much more of a “starting over” situation then if we keep RAC around.

Next up, Kyle Orton.

I don’t know if Orton should be the QB next season. I don’t know if Orton could lead the Chiefs to a Super Bowl win. His career numbers aren’t that “whoopee.” His 58.3 completion percentage and 6.6 YPA are very Cassel-esque (Cassel’s career stats are 59% and 6.6 YPA). Here’s what I do know: Orton, in his first start with KC, looked a million times more calm in the pocket. Cassel ALWAYS, even when he’s playing well, looks “jumpy” in the pocket. He squirms, bounces, dances and just looks anxious. Orton just stood back there as calm as can be. Now, his O-line deserves a lot of credit for that but I’ve seen Cassel have happy feet when there was no pressure on him whatsoever.

The “calmness” factor is not even what got me most excited. A lot of people have already mentioned the fact that Orton completed passes to 10 different receivers. What hasn’t been mentioned as much is why that is. There are two reasons. First, because Orton didn’t lock on to one specific WR. Cassel would often never look past Dwayne Bowe and would at times force a ball into double coverage while another WR ran open. I can’t think of a single time Orton stayed locked on and stared down a WR. Which brings me to reason number two, Orton went through his progressions all day long. Orton would stand there, calm as can be, and survey the entire field until he spotted an open man. Orton looked as good today as Cassel ever has.

Does this mean that Orton will play like this every week? No. He could go out next week against Oakland and throw four picks. However, if over the next two weeks Orton continues to look more comfortable running this offense than Cassel did, then that should spell the end of Matt Cassel in KC. Period.

Now, if Orton does continue to look good, does that mean that KC should pass on a first-round QB in the draft? To me that is the harder question. Right now, I would still be in favor of a first-round QB, but I’ll at least give Orton these final two games to change my mind. After all, a Kyle Orton like the one we saw today with a first-round RT to replace Richardson and a healthy Jamaal Charles would make for a pretty good offense to go with our emerging defense. To me, this is a greater debate to have than the Crennel for HC argument.

Finally, I’d like to address this team without Todd Haley. I think there were some very interesting things we can take away from this game. First, the team didn’t quit without Haley. A lot of Haley’s mistakes had been excused because the team “was still playing hard for him.” My number one fear when Haley was fired was that it would be the last straw that would cause these players to give up after a disappointing season. That didn’t happen. So either the “no quit” attitude always came from the players or Crennel, despite his more laid back attitude, is just as gifted at getting the most out of his players. Either one is a good sign for the Chiefs going forward.

Second, the offensive play calling was as good as it’s been all season. My take on this is that Todd Haley was getting in his own way. The Chiefs didn’t reinvent the wheel out there on offense yesterday. They just ran the same basic NFL offensive plays that all the other teams do. They just did a good job of mixing them up and executing them. It appears that in Haley’s attempt to out-think his opponent, he was really just out-thinking himself. Of course, having an actual NFL caliber QB that can read a defense, work through progressions, and has the arm to deliver the ball helps, too.

Finally, and this goes back to Crennel being the right man for the HC job, the defense didn’t suffer with Crennel taking on extra duties. There will never be another week where Romeo Crennel has more to deal with than he did this week as a head coach. The fact that he was able to deal with all of that and still run a defense that can stop one of the biggest offensive juggernauts the NFL has ever seen shows me all I need to know about whether or not this team can function without Haley for the rest of this season and moving forward.

It was a great day to be a Chiefs fan yesterday. It also gave us a lot to think about going forward. I’d love to hear what everyone else thinks.

As always, thanks for reading and GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I always love your posts Lyle. Great observations! In my opinion we still need to go after a QB. Cassel turns 30 in May and Orton turns 30 in November, so neither are long term answers. That being said I have serious doubts that Pioli would have the nuts to trade up to the 3rd spot. That is the only way we are going to get a franchise QB in either RGIII (my preference) or Barkley. Colts go first and take Luck. Rams go second and do not need a QB so we need to be 3rd or 4th. Now I feel that in order to do that you have to trade up and swap 1st round picks and WHATEVER else they want, because we may never have such an opportunity again. In regards to Romeo we definitely need to keep him. I loved what he said about delegating his other coaches to do what they do, but he will continue to call the defensive plays. The one thing I do not know is if he is under contract for next season and would we have to give permission to any other team wanting to interview him. I guarantee we get him cheaper than any of the other names out there and he is the least likely to make wholesale changes in the staff. If Muir can truly call a game like he just did then you leave him alone too. (Previously I wanted him gone) Lastly the players want Romeo. What is more important than that?

First I think it is obvious that Crenel has a better approach (or at least a proven one) to preparing a team not just a defense but a team to play. He should easily be the front runner, let the bidding begin. If Pioli does have intentions of retaining him he should try and sign him now or at least before the season is completely over with. Before the whole situation starts looking like the one associated with a famous formal Cardinal first basemen. Play offs or not how much hype and demand is there going to be for Crenel if we finish the season with 3 straight wins? We can worry about the QB after that.

Interesting radio interivew of Kevin Harlan this morning on 810 radio. He said "the stories are starting to come out of the locker room on Haley." He said it may not be fair to judge Cassel under Haley, because "Haley and Cassel did not get along." He said there was "constant friction." He said there were "weird head games." He suggested signing Orton and bringing in both Cassel and Orton to compete for number one would be a theoretically good scenario with competition and a good backkup, but it would be costly and dificult to achieve in terms of getting buy in from the players. He also said the Chiefs had "little depth" and "little experienced depth," and they had to consider whether to spend money on two high priced quarterbacks (although Cassel just gets $5.3 million this year and another $5 or $6 Million for Orton might not be a bad investment) or on depth.

I guess as far as Orton goes I just don't want to see this turn into another Grbac/Gannon situation.

@LyleGraversen How about calling it a QB competion vs controversy? Shame on you Lyle for comparing Cassel to Gannon.

I can get behind you on Crennel. I thought Orton played a great game but I'm not sold on him yet. I hear people say Orton and Cassel are pretty equal in red zone situations but that's not what I see watching our games. Generally the Chiefs have done well in the red zone under Cassel. It's been getting there that has been a problem. As of now the red zone is my only concern about Orton. I know he doesn't perform that great without good protection. Neither does Cassel and contrary to deluded fans beliefs neither do most NFL quarterbacks. Aaron Rodgers even suffers when harassed. Then he dusts himself off and gets back in the game but he is Elite not just good. At any rate I supported Cassel and if KC decides to retain Orton I will support him and wish Cassel the best. I look at Cassel and I keep thinking of the quote... "Those that can't teach" I think Cassel would make a decent coach if he decided to go that route.

@kcfanintx Yeah, I would hope Orton would be able to get some kind of repore going with Bowe or Baldwin in the endzone. Those are two big targets that could be utilized in the red zone.

Your work is right on the mark from start to finish. Orton being calm, cool and collected, going through progressions, not locking on to Bowe only, throwing catchable balls, excellent play fakes - all during his 1st game. Given time to develop chemistry Orton has potential. He has never had the weapons he does here especially with JC and Tony Mo next year. I like Fisher too but we can't afford to lose RAC as our DC. Period. I can't wait to see more on Saturday as we crush the faiders 56-0! Palmer is a turn over machine and our D is getting better - just imagine adding Berry. The times our D has given up so many points in our 5 blows were directly related to not only the pathetic offensive production but we turn the ball over almost 20 times. Tough to play D under those circumstances.

Orton may seem more confident in the pocket, but in his time in Denver his mobility was an issue. Cassel and Orton are very similar except Cassel is more mobile. With our O line that is a key issue, which is why I personally would take Cassel. Either way the O line needs to be fixed. We should go O line in the first round QB in the second. The Qb from OK ST (Weeder?) could be an option.

@Erich Good point on Orton's mobility. QB is definitely my #1 worry for next season.

The only way we can go with Cornell next year is if he will continue to be the D coordinator and HC at the same time. New D coordinator would not be starting all over again but would put us in the same situation we had with Hailey and the O coordinator position. RC differently has a different temperament than Hailey.But if things go south with the D play. Everyone would be screaming for him to take back over the D anyway.

@kcintx ....Romeo called the defensive plays sun, so he can handle being headcoach and calling plays.

@MicahStephenson I know he can do it but will he? Hailey got in the way of his O coordinator. This may have been what cost him his job. RC strikes me as a very smart man but I don't know how trusting he is. Can he let it go and trust his coaches on game day?

@kcintx Well from one game it's hard to say but if they continue to play that way over the next two I'd say promote from within. the D looked just fine Sunday.

If Romeo does well throughout the rest of the season, shouldn't we be concerned that some other team (mmmmm . . .NY Giants?) would be interested in him. There are estimates that 7 or 8 teams will be looking for coaching changes after the seasons end. Can KC make itself attractive enough to RC to stay?

@BluMax ...at this point if Chiefs dont make Romeo head coach, we lose him to another team. If you lose Romeo you BETTER have Cower!!!

@BluMax I like Crennel but he played the "no one respects us and we have to show them we can play" card. You cannot do it 16 games. That said he made himself a hot prospect with the win, NY Giants is a definite suitor. The real question is what will Pioli do and when? I fear we get McDaniel because he is the only one left without a job because Pioli had to think about it.

@tm1946 That is my recurring nightmare as well. We lose our defensive edge when RC leaves, Cassel stays a starter because . . . he has a relationship with McD and Pioli thinks McD deserves another chance despite under achieving everywhere outside of Boston. I am afraid the Pioli won't even make an attempt to keep RC.

@BluMax@tm1946 Stop it! You're filling my head full of primo nightmare material.

@BluMax@tm1946 If Pioli hires McIdiot as HC I will throw a party when he gets run out of town. If Hunt lets him he's crazy.

@KC MikeG@BluMax This should keep you awake until the new year.....Pioli does nothing in a hurry, he thinks and re-thinks. So, what if he waits until there is no one left who would come to KC as HC other than McDaniel, isn't that how we got Haley? Sorry just threw up a little.

@BluMax Of course they can. First, Romeo needs to make this go around work. 2nd gig, getting older, not too many HC jobs going to come his way. So, he needs to be someplace he knows he can win. That there is KC. 2. This is a young, talented team. Don't let anyone tell you differently. I think any HC would love a chance to ride the talent of this roster for the next 5 years.

Haley....he cudnt handle it. Haley is a too much of a know it All but dont know BEEP! Yall know the type. He seemed full of beep too(im gone play the best 53 that giv us a chance to win) palko & richardson, YEA RIGHT!!!! Im glad Haley is gone. I havent hurd haleys name mentioned for ANY position coach or cordinator on ANY team yet.

@MicahStephenson I believe Richardson played sunday and did a decent job? As for Haley, some how, some way, he lost focus on his job, putting players in the position to succeed and winning games, it became more about him and Pioli than the Chiefs. Glad he is gone wish it was sooner.

@tm1946 ...all the players played decent sun. AA had an article not to long ago that showed how B.Richardson ranked dead last at RT, out of 76 rankable RT's he ranked 76. Worst in the NFL!!!

@MicahStephenson True but come on how much is that due to Haley and his cracked pot ideas. What if Crennel or the next HC can get him to play at an acceptable level, one less immediate need.

@tm1946 @MicahStephenson Replacing Richardson is an immediate need no matter who coaches the team. Being the worst tackle in the NFL isn't acceptable. No coach can get him there. Even if he moves up a few spots in the ranking he'd still be a backup at best. Cut ties already. He's a cancer to the offense.

@tm1946 @MicahStephenson Don't buy into the "Haley is the sole cause of all the teams problems" excuse thrust on us by the Chiefs organization. He wasn't the best coach ever, but even he couldn't make Richardson good. No coach could.

@Erich@tm1946@MicahStephenson No, but couldn't he have given Gaither a look?

Matt Cassel...I think orton looked good, u sold him a lil, i will b watching him close the rest of the season. If orton plays good it wud b nice if if resigned wit the chiefs as the starter, but u dont get rid of cassel unless someone has a high 2nd rd pick to trade. U might not trade cassel period, if orton got hurt cassel can come in and win games. Having depth at QB is a must a can b a strengh next season if chiefs play thur cards right. Chiefs WILL NOT draft in the top ten so forget about drafting Luck, RG3, Barkley, & Jones in the 1st rd people, we hav too many holes to fill to trade away alot of high picks to move up to get a rookie QB.

If the chiefs hire anyone else except for Romeo for head coach, it will b a big, huge mistake. The players have bought in. They believe. They love Romeo. If chiefs hire a different head coach u gonna lose some of the players. If Romeo isnt head coach it better b Cower. Thats it Romeo or Cower period end of discussion. Anyone else and you lose players, fans, & money Hunt!!!!!

@MicahStephenson I completely agree with you. The Chiefs brass just needs to see it for two more games. And not necessary a win (that would be great)..but the passion from the players. Rallying around Romeo. I hope this will be a great Christmas Eve..

That is hilarious. I told my roommate one or two weeks before thanksgiving that if Detroit didn't knock them off their undefeated perch and were still undefeated when they met the Chiefs, we would likely beat them. That was before Cassel went down and Haley got fired. I picked GB in my work football pool and also said on Wednesday or Thursday last week to a co-worker that I was gonna probably regret not picking the Chiefs!! I was right!!!! I completely regret it. I would be in the lead for the money if I had picked them.

Good article. I agree with everything you said. "Now, if Orton does continue to look good does that mean that KC should pass on a first round QB in the draft? To me that is the harder question. Right now, I would still be in favor of a first round QB, but I’ll at least give Orton these final two games to change my mind. After all, a Kyle Orton like the one we saw today with a first round RT to replace Richardson and a healthy Jamaal Charles would make for a pretty good offense to go with our emerging defense. To me this is a greater debate to have then the Crennel for HC argument." That is KC's biggest conundrum of the offseason.

@Danny W Yeah, I think it gives them flexibility. If there's a quality QB there when we pick, yes. But we don't need to reach. If better value at tackle or DE, jump on that, get a QB in round 2 or 3 and let he and Stanzi battle it out for the back up role to challenge Orton. Even if we do drop a 1st rounder on a QB, we don't NEED to start him next year, which is nice.

I think if Orton continues to play at this or similar level. It will allow the Chiefs to address other area's of need with their early draft picks(OT, ILB or NT). Then draft a QB, Nick Foles (my personal fav), in a 3rdish Rd. And allow him to develop for a year or so..And fight it out with Stanzi. Seems to me Cassel has never had any good competition which caused him to be too comfortable..IMO

@cyberry If Orton continues playing well I could live with a QB group of Orton, Cassel and Stanzi for a year to see what happens. Still, I think the Chiefs are going to need a really good QB at some point and I am not sure if any of the guys currently on the roster can win it all. Tough call.

@patrickallen@cyberry I agree with Pat 99%, that one percent is keeping Cassel around for next year if Orton has a good showing the next two weeks. In a perfect world, which the NFL is far from, the Chiefs first and foremost in my opinion needs to find an elite veteran QB. Someone with 2-3 seasons left in him. Meanwhile we keep Stanzi, because despite lack-there-of game time I think with an elite veteran his(Stanzi) looks all that more promising in the future. To make our QB situation even better, we can keep Orton as a 2nd stringer to help in those moments where our 1st stringer is out, and it also gives Stanzi someone to challenge him for the starting spot when out Vet has run his course. In a perfect world, teams in the NFL should never be looking for a rookie QB to take the shoes of a retiring Vet, and I don't think by using our first round to pull a kid fresh from college to lead a team that is, and let's be fair, shaky. That puts a ton of pressure on a youngster and could mean a quick end to a rookie QB. You can see several elite QB's that did there do-diligence riding the pine pony and learning from the "star" and when the 2nd stringer gets their shot it just works. KC unfortunately hasn't had this luxury in quite a few years, and such the team has suffered.

@patrickallen@cyberry Great article btw.

@KJack@patrickallen@cyberry See KJack, I think we might already have our QB of the future on our roster. I think Stanzi might be pretty darn good based on my observations of his arm and demeanor when he is in the game. There is something about the kid that I think he might be the next Rodgers or Brady. He sort of reminds me of Joe Montana to be honest.

@MichaelShaw@patrickallen@cyberry Thought I made it clear I agree, I just would rather him sit behind a very talented vet for a couple years.

@KJack@MichaelShaw@patrickallen@cyberry Orton or Cassel: I'm more ecstatic about the fact that we have a legitimate 2nd string QB, no matter who starts. Think how great it will be to go into 2012 without Palko or Croyle listed as #2 on the depth chart.

@patrickallen @cyberry patrick- I don't see how a roster with Orton and Cassel would work. Both will want to start and one will demand a trade. Otherwise they will split the locker room. Basically, we don't need two mediocre staring QBs on the roster. One has to go.

Agreed, we don't need a QB controversey to divide the locker room. What we do need is to fix the off line. The Chiefs pulled one of their old tricks sunday. They won a game that they shouldn't have, but they also lost several games that they should have won. That has been SOP for the chiefs for as long as they have been in KC. Now we should enjoy the win, but not put too much into it as the team Sunday was on an adrenaline high and I don't think they will be able to sustain it for an entire season. They will in all likelyhood revert back to their regular habits. Crennel is like a father figure to them and they played their butts off for him, but if he treats them like a head coach that will change. A head coach parcels out playing time and these guys are all pros and want to play all the time. Another sideline is that I always thought crennel would be the head coach because they can give him two hats to wear just like the Off line coach that they made the OC. Follow the money and you are never far off when it comes to the Chiefs. If they can get a guy to do two jobs for the price of one, well you see what I mean.

Big Jim 234 pts

I always love your posts Lyle. Great observations! In my opinion we still need to go after a QB. Cassel turns 30 in May and Orton turns 30 in November, so neither are long term answers. That being said I have serious doubts that Pioli would have the nuts to trade up to the 3rd spot. That is the only way we are going to get a franchise QB in either RGIII (my preference) or Barkley. Colts go first and take Luck. Rams go second and do not need a QB so we need to be 3rd or 4th. Now I feel that in order to do that you have to trade up and swap 1st round picks and WHATEVER else they want, because we may never have such an opportunity again. In regards to Romeo we definitely need to keep him. I loved what he said about delegating his other coaches to do what they do, but he will continue to call the defensive plays. The one thing I do not know is if he is under contract for next season and would we have to give permission to any other team wanting to interview him. I guarantee we get him cheaper than any of the other names out there and he is the least likely to make wholesale changes in the staff. If Muir can truly call a game like he just did then you leave him alone too. (Previously I wanted him gone) Lastly the players want Romeo. What is more important than that?

ArrowFan 205 pts

First I think it is obvious that Crenel has a better approach (or at least a proven one) to preparing a team not just a defense but a team to play. He should easily be the front runner, let the bidding begin. If Pioli does have intentions of retaining him he should try and sign him now or at least before the season is completely over with. Before the whole situation starts looking like the one associated with a famous formal Cardinal first basemen. Play offs or not how much hype and demand is there going to be for Crenel if we finish the season with 3 straight wins? We can worry about the QB after that.

KC Oracle 68 pts

Interesting radio interivew of Kevin Harlan this morning on 810 radio. He said "the stories are starting to come out of the locker room on Haley." He said it may not be fair to judge Cassel under Haley, because "Haley and Cassel did not get along." He said there was "constant friction." He said there were "weird head games."

He suggested signing Orton and bringing in both Cassel and Orton to compete for number one would be a theoretically good scenario with competition and a good backkup, but it would be costly and dificult to achieve in terms of getting buy in from the players. He also said the Chiefs had "little depth" and "little experienced depth," and they had to consider whether to spend money on two high priced quarterbacks (although Cassel just gets $5.3 million this year and another $5 or $6 Million for Orton might not be a bad investment) or on depth.

LyleGraversen 313 pts

I guess as far as Orton goes I just don't want to see this turn into another Grbac/Gannon situation.