Chiefs Hunt Fires And Misses

by Chiefs

Change is a strange bedfellow. Especially in the NFL. One day your sheets are red and gold and and the next day you’re two sheets to the wind and hanging in the breeze. In this faster-than-a-Tweeting-bullet world of commitment changes, owners make decisions based on perceived notions of great and bad based on nothing more than the unfamiliar universe beyond their own noses.

On Monday morning Clark Hunt, owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, has done just that, vilifying an employee who was too far away from his own sphere of comfort, thereby relegating him to the distant planet of the unknown and unacceptable. Hunt didn’t fire Haley because he’s a bad coach; he fired him because he doesn’t know any better.

In the meantime Hunt erroneously aligns himself with the man who’s responsible for the continued devolution of his club. Just ask Scott Pioli himself and he’ll tell you, the buck stops with him.

I wish Hunt could see who is more at fault in this situation. However, the NFL doesn’t work that way of course. Owners hire GMs… to hire coaches… and give them a minimum of a couple of chances to turn the ship in the right direction. The problem is, this was less Todd Haley’s doing and more Scott Pioli’s.

Whether you side with Haley or not, ask yourself the question, if Haley was 100% at fault in this situation… who hired him? And the bigger question is… why did Scott Pioli hire Todd Haley in the first place?

Pioli can’t argue now that he didn’t know Haley was a hot head. Haley’s temper was public knowledge. He can’t argue now that he wasn’t aware that Haley had Super Bowl-strong opinions about player personnel. He can’t argue that now that Haley was unbendingly offensive minded.

More Hunt Fires And Misses after the jump

If Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli fired Todd Haley because he was inconsistent… we know they don’t mean… if Haley consistently lost… they’d be satisfied. So, it can only mean one thing when they say they fired him for being inconsistent… they fired him for losing.

GMs and owners don’t have to lavish exiting coaches with praise as they did boasting, “Todd Haley is a good football coach.” It’s absolutely disingenuous. The question then is… why be disingenuous? Unless you ARE disingenuous. This practice of praising an individual who you’re severing ties with, is political and done for the sole purpose of making yourself look good to the public eye.

What we’re also witnessing is an alpha-male management conflict coming to a head.  An organization based on an alpha-male hierarchy can in no way allow for two alpha-males to share… collaborate… and coexist at the top. Clark Hunt is not an alpha-male. However, when he hired Scott Pioli he was buying into a belief system born of the Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells ilk. It basically goes like this: I’m right, you’re wrong and my opinion matters most.

Consequently, how can Scott Pioli now claim that someone else is to fault for His (with a capital H) team’s overall failure.

Admittedly, if Clark Hunt had fired Scott Pioli on Monday, the hiring of a new GM would have brought a change at the head coaching position, most assuredly. The point is, I think Scott Pioli deserved being sacked more than Todd Haley.

Some writers have been overly generous with their laying blame at the feet of Todd Haley for decisions like keeping Barry Richardson around, cutting Jared Gaither and almost cutting Jamaal Charles two years ago. The problem with that is that the bottom line decision maker has always been, and shall always be, Scott Pioli.

When Bill Parcells was the head coach in Dallas from 2003 to 2006 similar conflicts were ever present and on-going. Looking back, it’s a miracle that Jerry Jones and Bill Parcells could finish a conversation without one of them getting in the last word.

What a burden it must be for Scott Pioli, to be the son-in-law of Parcells and the protegee/apprentice of Belichick’s. Being a Bob Knight or a Bo Schembechler or a Tony LaRussa has got to be rough going. Especially rough for anyone who gets in their way.

The biggest problem I have with the mis-fire on Clark Hunt’s part is that.. so far… Todd Haley’s players aren’t happy about it. Not at all happy.

Derrick Johnson said,

“I won’t say it’s no big deal, it’s a very big deal for the Kansas City Chiefs right now…. We definitely believed in him. My best wishes are for him, and I hope he does well in the future.”

Jackie Battle said,

“We went to the playoffs last year. I mean, that has to mean something. The season didn’t go the way we wanted this year, but he’s proven he can win in the league.”

Brandon Carr Tweeted on Monday,

“Crazy, crazy day. I’ve seen and been thru so much in these 4yrs. But at the end of the day the motto remains the same: LDC” On Friday Carr had Tweeted, Describe Todd Haley in one word: Fierce”

Did Clark Hunt think for one minutes to ask his own players about what they thought of Coach Haley?

But, it doesn’t matter, Scott Pioli’s supernova ego will carry him through. He said on Monday that “hiring Todd Haley wasn’t a mistake.” Of course not, Pioli would never admit he made a mistake. His alpha-stone-age personality won’t, and can’t, allow him to do that.

Is there anyone still convinced that that the old task-master alpha-male approach will work with today’s players when today’s players are so much more adept at understanding the business of football and the game itself? Not to mention that so many players are millionaires who are less likely to take that kind of grief.

How can Scott Pioli or Clark Hunt sleep at night knowing they canned the coach of a team they chose to spend 32 million dollars under the cap on? What are they looking for? A shoestring miracle worker? And they thought Tyler Palko would be a good back-up QB?

Somewhere in heaven, Lamar is shaking his head in shame.

One fan’s reaction to the firing struck a chord, “Dumb move, the players need to be replaced, not the coach.” Getting new players would be the job of who? So, who’s not been doing their job?

Another issue with the Todd Haley firing is timing. When questioned, both Hunt and Pioli said it was something that they just started talking about this last week. Obviously, if they decided they were going to go ahead and make the change after this season ended, then they also decided it would be advantageous to go ahead and make the change now instead of waiting.

In reality, they could have waited another year.

Stalwart organizations keep their coaches through thick and thin. That’s not always the answer of course but, there are some numbers which back that up.

Take last season, for example. If you add up all the wins and losses for every coach who has coached for 4 years or longer in the league, their record was 121-85 last season. A .587 winning percentage.

If you take all of the coaches who had coached for 3 years or less, their complied record last season was 123-146. A .457 winning percentage.

Now, this may be for games that were played in only one season (2010) but, it does show a pattern. Coaches who have been in the league longer, usually do better. It makes sense.

By firing Todd Haley now, the Chiefs may have missed out on his best years of his service and success, which could have been right around the corner.  

Now, we’ll never know.

Fans calling for Haley’s ouster should be ashamed of themselves too. I may not have agreed with every decision Haley made either but, no one can deny Todd Haley made legitimate and measurable progress… with the players he was given to work with.

Not to worry… “in Pioli we trust”… will deliver the Haley haters.

Now, I’ll be hoping that Ralphie… err… I mean Clark… gets a brand new Red Rifle BB gun of his very own next Christmas 2012… and that he has the wherewithal to pull the trigger himself. I just pray that next time he hits the right target.

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I do believe that if neither Carr or Bowe are signed, that the front office only truly cares about money and not winning. That is the only reason I won't say anything about the Salary cap space yet. Haley is gone, do I like it nope not one bit I think he should have been given at least one more year with one more draft class, but there is nothing we can do about it. It's time to move on. I want to know how soon after the season ends do you think that they will Hire a new HC and if you think we could get Gruden out of the commentators box? It sounds like a long shot and it probably won't happen, but Gruden did work for the most controlling Owner/GM of all time in Al Davis and was fairly successful. Another good article Laddie nice to see somebody else who didn't think Haley was a complete failure as a head coach.

No... I don't think Haley was a failure but, he did have a load of circumstances beyond his control that I think he had his hands tied by. @awastevenson

@awastevenson Not sure about Carr but Bowe is a two way street. He may want to be "da show" with a different team. But the Chiefs may well bail on both, we have no control on Pioli. Wish we could find out the truth about Haley and his conduct this year. As an outsider, might have been better if he got fired after the first game, ala Gailey. We cannot get to shook about the new HCs, Pioli thinks and rethinks before he acts. No hurrying him .

Just heard local media (I know Pioli only talks to NE, national media) is putting out Crennel wants Orton to start if healthy. "the Palko experiment is over" Of course, if his finger isn't???? Stanzi fans will be disappointed but recall the Royals ran a pitcher against the yankees?? got run and never heard of again....Really want ?Stanzi to start against the superbowl champ, undefeated team, hitting on all cylinders? might ruin the kid for all time.

That's probably what Crennel is thinking too... don't want to ruin Stanzi before he even gets a fair chance to develop. @tm1946

@laddiemorse@tm1946 First - Yes GB's offense is all that and a bag of chips but thier pass D is one of the worst in the NFL so it would be a great game to let Stanzi come in to air it out and just maybe not let them pound us into the record books for greatest margin of victory ever. Second - Laddie how is Stanzi going to "develop" by being inactive or sitting on the bench? We need to know now what we have in him to make sure we draft wisely next year. Look at how many of the rookies are finding success by playing. THANK YOU Romeo for ending the Tyler Failco. experience right away!

I do think Stanzi should play in the last 2 games... but, throwing him to the wolves against the Packers could destroy his QB psyche. @KC MikeG @tm1946

@laddiemorse@tm1946 GB is all about the offense. Their pass D is ranked #31. I think it would be a great opportunity for him to air it out vs having a limited Orton trying to keep up. Plus if Orton has a godd to great day Stanzi will sit the rest of the year. I say give the kid a shot vs a bad pass D and if he struggles then come back with a healthier Orton next week.

Ladner I dont like alot of what Pioli does especially as far as personel moves are concerned in the off season. There were many oppurtunities to add depth and it wasnt done. It did hurt the team. That said he isnt a total failure, he has brought in talent. If Stanzi comes in and makes Palko look like a failed Canadian backup should I still be ashamed? If Jared Gaither goes to the Probowl next year at left tackle for San Diego or for that matter starts and just does avg to above avg, should I be ashamed then too? What about when the Chiefs get a new head coach and the offense actually scores more than three times in about two months? The season is done brother when you have 6 yards at the half something has to give and it did. Haley made millions if he managed his money right he will be fine, I'm not ashamed infact I'm down right happy and you should be too.

Of course... I'll always be happy for whatever success the Chiefs can achieve. However, why should I celebrate the duping of a coach by a GM? I think that's shameful. It's like the relationship between a builder and a contractor who gives the builder mud to build a mansion. You want that I should be "happy" that the builder failed and got fired? I say fire the contractor and keep the builder who gave everything he could during his stay. But please don't celebrate his demise. That seems "shameful" to me. @Danny W

@laddiemorse He could have been given more but you fail to see the other side of the arguement that BRich is still walking out there on Sunday and he didn't pull Palko after six yards of progress. We beat the Bears on a Hail mary play. I love the guy as a person I would love for him to be my coach but he is either stubborn or stupid when it comesto offenses and personel choices and it cost him. Haley is gonna do fine. He wont be a head coach this year but he can find something in 12. I dont wish anyone harm or shame especially for wanting a better product in which they pay money for.

Great work Laddie! I have never heard a good explanation of how Pioli hired Haley but wanted to fire him as soon as the end of 2009? He had to know exactly what he was getting. I pray that Haley doesn't go to SD to make us regret what could have been twice every year, that Pioli's plan isn't to pass on an elite QB in the draft so that he can try to resurect Cassel so he isn't wrong on that major decision also, that McDumbass isn't even considered, that Romeo is retained as DC and that we don't lose the players. Losing the players is one result I believe Hunt and Pioli have overlooked or underestimated or both which could end up being the most critical. Did you listen to Romeo's radio interview - even though he now has the HC job he didn't think it was right to fire Haley. Another observation - Pioli looked like Haley was working over his vodoo doll during the presser. Squiming in his seating, wrentching his neck around, wide eyed scans of the room, repeating what Clark said and even repeating himself, saying hiring Haley wasn't a mistake? then why fire him? admiting his own fault. Final observation - if Haley was fired for inconsistency then how can they justify keeping Cassel? or for that matter Bowe? They are the poster boys for inconsistency.

A good piece, Ladner. I can't disagree with it, and am in some ways sorry to see Haley go. As I've mulled this over, this is what I come back to: Haley's downfall was his inability to delegate. He cast his lot with Muir, and in a sense with himself, since Muir is little more than a yes man. Granted, he was dealt a tough hand this year, but let us not forget that he had JC for the first game against Buffalo and ran him 10 times (avg 5.6 ypc) while having Cassel throw 36 times (avg 3.3 ypa). You might say, well KC was down big and couldn't afford to run the ball. Well, JC had carried the ball 7 times at the half out of 30 plays. KC was only down 20-7. Not such a large deficit to abandon the run. So, he couldn't delegate, gambled on himself and Muir and lost. The other point speaks to your observation that coaches who have been in the league longer win more and that Haley's success might have been just around the corner. For the record, I think Haley can go on to be a successful HC, but he needs to learn from the mistakes he made in KC and he wasn't going to learn from them until he HAD to (i.e., it was too late and he got fired). He wasn't able to delegate because of stubbornness, misused player personnel because of stubbornness and was not going to change on that. I think good HCs are stubborn, but they know when to back off. Haley hadn't learned that lesson yet. I hope he does, because I enjoyed watching him, appreciated his passion and think he seems like a pretty good human being.

Best article I've read on this issue. Do players normally come out and bash the firing of coaches? Pioli is gonna hire a puppet to be the head coach next, someone he can push around. I love the players and other fans, hate our front office.

@KC_for_life SI reporter, who says he talks to Pioli, believes he will chose a HC he believes he can work with. Ferentz or McDaniels. No way Fisher, outside chance to Crennel. While I do not get it, heck I do not get Pioli about much, I would have thought he might consider a HC who has a snowballs chance in hell of winning and saving Pioli's job. What do I know?

What do any of us know? I agree with the SI reporter because Pioli will react in a typical way and swing to the other end of the spectrum by hiring a yes man like Ferentz or McDaniel. The problem is... how will the players ever be able to respect a yes man for a coach. It's not going to work and we can already project what will happen beyond the next coach and the next GM... because it's not going to work. So... here hoping we have a winning organization by 2020. I'll probably be dead by then.@tm1946 @KC_for_life

@laddiemorse@KC_for_life Yes on many levels. The players will play, they got contracts and are well aware, if they get tossed in KC there are 31 other teams who might come looking. Just how hard they play may be the issue. Yes men, no, no opinion men is more likely, if you put your foot down in front of Hunt or Pioli, a bus may run over it. Winning, I decided a long time ago the "storied" Hunt Chiefs have nothing in their mission statement about "winning". No, it is about be business sound and a profit. A win here or there is a nice extra. I expect to be long dead before they either win consistantly or move to another city, maybe OK City.I wish I were joking.

Hunt got the consensus 'best candidate' available in Pioli when he hired him. Is he perfect, no... but I've seen enough signs to let them keep on this path. Draft 1 was a bust (in an overall bad year, in which he still didn't have his scouts in place). Draft 2 was widely considered a strong draft - Berry everyone agrees with, 2nd round we'll see but progress and obvious talent shown, but the real strength was getting a starting TE, OG, and Safety in later rounds. Last year, we look like we hit in RD 1, 2, 3a and 3b, w/ the rest still being projects (and rookies). That's already enough of a track record for me, when you combine w/ the body of work he supported in NE.

@ml31 His body of work in NE is minimal. I'm stil not sure what he did there. I'm sure he did a lot, but Belichick had personnel control, not Pioli. You should add to Pioli's "track record" in KC: After three years we have no depth anywhere on the team. He chose a QB who couldn't make a team in Canada to be our backup. Piscateli is on the team. Almost no FA activity. $30 mil under the cap. Gaither was cut while Richardson stayed. (you can blame Haley all you want Pioli DOES have personnel control in KC) Pioli has done some good and done some bad. Don't give him too much credit. So far his track record is iffy to mediocre.

@Erich Look, they're both to blame. BUT, Palko was HALEY's guy... (was a PA guy like him and he set the depth chart). Richardson and Gaither were both on team most of year and Haley made the call who to start. Piscatelli - who knows, but feels like a Haley "lance long" type to me. We'll know the real story in a couple years when we see how this goes, but I'd rather start over on a coach than trying to find the best GM on the market again.

@ml31@Erich You sure Palko was Haley';s guy. Palko was the first free agent of that season Pioli signed, supposedly when Pioli was considering firing Haley, just does not blend, think about firing your HC but run out and grab a QB who he wanted??

Any way I look at the Palko signing... I've never been able to understand how he came to be wearing a Chiefs uniform. @tm1946 @ml31 @Erich

@laddiemorse@ml31@Erich I did not understand the need for it and could not figure why Pioli rushed to sign him in the first place.

I mean... I get the decisions to either go the developmental QB route or the grizzled veteran route... but WHAT... WHAT... WHAT in Palkos past made any of them think he'd ever be able to run or execute a drive in the NFL??? I just don't get THAT! @tm1946 @ml31 @Erich

@laddiemorse@ml31@Erich I agree and am aware we are probably boring other to death but I believe this just support the need to fire Pioli, now today. He is the weak link in this organization. Haley is gone and forgotten but Pioli is making or not making decisions that will effect this team for the next 10 years. Hunt is playing the fiddle while KC burns.

@laddiemorse@tm1946@ml31@Erich So did Haley actually think palko would get better or was his decision to keep playing palko just stupid, stubborn pissing match with Pioli? If so that is another step for me moving on happily w/o Haley.

We'll I think about 75% of the fans out there support this firing so, I knew it wouldn't be a positive post in terms of responses but... I guess it's just a sad time to be a Chiefs fans. On the other hand... I hope we can take this opportunity to turn things around!

@laddiemorse that's because 75% of Chiefs fans are impatient and fairweather fans. I agree with you, it was too soon. I was stoked for next season and now I'm uninterestd at best. Very stupid move.

@big chief@laddiemorse Agreed but interested still depending on the new HC.

@big chief@laddiemorse Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since the early 90's. I don't really think its unreasonable for the fans to become increasing impatient. That said, there definitely are a bunch of fair weather fans that will jump back on the band wagon once we get our shit together and achieve greatness!

If Haley had so much respect in the locker room, then I wonder if he'll snag any of our players if he gets a new HC job. A lot of players are under contract but not all. I could see Bowe following Haley, for instance.

This is a terrible article. I have heard the quotes from Johnson and Battle on the radio, and they did not say them with any passion. He had lost the locker room, because he'd lost his mind. Scott Pioli has said it before - his job is to support the coach. Bottom line is that many of these decisions were shared. At the end of the day, Ill keep the guy with the track record, not the guy who's the clear hot-head. Piolis not blameless, but this season's debacle is mainly on Haley, staring this pre-season.

@ml31 What track record? Are you talking about Pioli? The same Pioli who had never been GM before coming here and came from a Patriots team where Belichick called all of the shots. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you were talking about someone else. IDK who, but someone.

Agree what track record? But you would think that he would have picked up some of belichicks knowledge.

I don't think any high profile coach will work for pioli because in the nfl coaching circle they all know he just road the curttails of bellichick and daddy in law parcells. it'll be a puppet headcoach...

That's why we'll probably end up with Crennel. @DWD68

Well you can bet where ever he goes the next time he gets to go against the chiefs it'll be just like gun and the lions poured it on us this year.

I am not ashamed of myself for deciding Haley needed to be fired. Cutting Gaither and starting Richardson, keeping Palko in the game, benching DJ for Mays...these things suggest to me that even with good players available to him, Haley was often too blind or stubborn to play them. That is a major, major problem to have in a head coach. nobody is saying Pioli is perfect. I haven't seen that anywhere. But Haley proved to me that he didn't have what it takes to do the right thing when his team needed him too. for me, that means he had to go. Excellent article thought and I agree with a lot of what you say about Hunt/Pioli.

I appreciate your points but, don't agree. How could Haley "do what it takes to do the right thing" while being in constant conflict with an alpha-male boss who was always "right." I think the problem with the Haley-Pioli marriage was that they both were so strong minded in their approaches that neither could be completely successful at what they were attempting to accomplish. So, one of them needed to go... I just don't know that replacing Haley with anyone... as long as Pioli is still in town... is going to work. If an organization is going to be "alpha-male" driven... then that person likely needs to be the coach. I don't think it works any other way... not in the alpha-male system. @Arowhead_Addict

@laddiemorse@Arowhead_Addict Good points but Haley was not hired to do the "right" thing. He was supposed to build a team (remember "work in progress") and win games. Honestly, if he felt he "had" to run Palko out there, let Gaithers go, run Richardson out, refuse to let Hudson replace Weigman (I know I have said Hudson was a G anyway), keep stiffs like Becht and Sabby on the roster. That is enough for me to fire him. Now he can do the "right" thing with a charitiable organization and leave football to the pros (not including Pioli in that bunch).

@Arowhead_Addict Patrick I get what you're saying, but I've definitely heard about Pioli being perfect. Or at least pretty close to that. Remember "In Pioli we trust?" Pioli has some fans thinking he can do no wrong for sure. Though they are getting fewer

Couldn't agree more. i wish haley the very best

I wish him the best too. In fact, I've become such a fan of his that I'll be cheering for him anywhere he goes... unless it's the Raiders of course! @DWD68

I like Haley and wish they would have kept him around. But to win in this league the GM/HC relationship must work. If Pioli and Haley were not going to get along, then it is better that he goes - for our chiefs and Haley himself. We need a HC that can work with Pioli, since it seems Pioli is here to stay. But more than that, we need to SPEND SOME DOLLARS and give the next coach something to work with!! I think Hunt is loosening up (a little) as seen in signing Hali, Flowers, Charles, and DJ. I just hope to see a playoff win in my lifetime. I can't even remember the last one anymore.

Wanting a playoff win? Better adjust your 20/20 vision because with Pioli in town I think a P/O victory will come closer to the year 2020 than 2012. @huckdaddy

@laddiemorse@huckdaddy I am figuring around 2015 , a couple of years after the Chiefs are forced to spend to a salary cap floor. Of course we could be on our new GM and Hunts 3 or 4th cannot miss HC.

Yea... we can't make a "Herm Edwards" type selection for a head coach. Meaning... someone other team's assistant or mediocre HC. That would be a disaster. @tm1946 @huckdaddy

@laddiemorse@huckdaddy Hire a Pioli buddy and the fans should go nuts. Not a huge fan of Crennel. I favor Fisher, might mean firing Pioli but I could live with it.

Lamar Hunt did the same thing back in 82 when he allowed the firing of Marv Levy by his GM Jim Schaaf. Levy did have 4 years though. If the players were still behind Haley this was a big mistake. Let another Coach go and we are still over 30 mil under the cap. If Clark had a Nascar he would give the pit crew hand wrenches and expect them to compete with crews who are using air retches. Looks like Pioli would fire the driver for not having a good pit time.

This 50+ year Chiefs fan could not disagree more with you and your take on the firing of TH. Pioli had to eat major crow to fire HIS coach, but it was the right thing to do. The ship was already dead in the water after the bizzare