Sunday’s Biggest Winner Was Todd Haley

by Chiefs

Always nice to see our Chiefs win.  I’m not of the opinion that this really changes anything as far as our season goes.  But as I said after we beat Minnesota, it’s important for fans to be able to believe they might see a win.  Knowing your team is going to lose is a confusing, frustrating place to be.  It fosters dark thoughts.  I think we all remember Herm’s magical 2-23 stretch.

I don’t believe the Chiefs will make the playoffs, and most of you probably don’t believe that either.  So in that regard, yesterday’s win would seem to be devoid of actual, practical significance.  But for one man, that is most definitely not the case.

Todd Haley is fighting for his job.  I’m not saying he and Pioli hate each other, and I’m not saying I think he should be fired.*  But if you don’t think he’s at least been on the hot seat this season, you’re wearing some massive blinders.**

*Obviously these things are possibilities and worthy of discussion; they just aren’t my focal point in this post. 

**People have been getting very angry when the media “speculates” as to the relationship between Haley and Pioli.  But then these same people will turn around and insist the relationship is fine, which is just as speculative.  Speculation, as ever, is only allowed when you’re making things up to excuse organizational folly.

Even if Haley’s job is 100% safe, you know he has to have been wondering.  Lose a bunch of games badly and any coach will start wondering.  Job security in the NFL is nonexistent.  And when you’ve got a family to feed, you’re bound to be a little paranoid when any turn for the worst could cost you your job.  I think this is part of the reason coaches and GMs are so willing to lie, make excuses, and resort to pathetic spin.  They have these amazing jobs, but they could be taken away at any time.  That has to be a nerve-wracking situation.

Haley, to his credit, has not shamed himself.  He hasn’t made excuses.  And he’s obviously much more likable than either of his bosses.  Granted, being more likable than Scott Pioli and Clark Hunt is like being more pleasant than a kick in the testes.  Still, there is something to be said for being at least semi-cool when the two guys above you are anything but.  That kind of thing matters to me.

More hang-time with your boy Big Matt after le jump:

Haley has conducted himself reasonably well for a man who may be fired at year’s end.  Sure, he lies too easily.  But even that is never to spin his failures or save himself.  In fact, when Haley lies it’s usually just to pretend he doesn’t know about something that he obviously does.  Frustrating, sure, but basically in line with the mandated secrecy coming down from on high.  Evasive, dishonest coach-speak is clearly what Pioli wants from his coaches.  Haley might be a totally different guy under a more relaxed, confident regime.

I’ll be honest: I don’t think Todd Haley is a great coach.  I’m not even sure he’s a good one.  The guy has glaring flaws, and his supposed strengths are dubious, to say the least.  But I have to admit, I’m pulling for him.  I don’t particularly want a new head coach, and I don’t think it would be best for the team.  Two more years of built-in excuses for Pioli and Hunt wouldn’t be good for anyone.

Pioli went outside his comfort zone a bit with the Haley hire, and he ended up with a wild card.  That isn’t something a guy like him wants.  He’s obsessed with control.  A filthy, swearing, risk-taking head coach is not easily controllable.  You can bet this next hire would be ultra-conservative.  Someone to hug that company line and agree with Pioli in all things.  That type of man isn’t who I want coaching my Chiefs.  Give me someone flawed and interesting over a Patriot Way bootlicker any day.

If Haley had lost out, he would’ve been fired, there can be little doubt of that.  Yesterday’s win changes things.  I think a 7-9 record saves Haley’s job, and that is now within reach.  It won’t be easy, but he can get there.

Pioli and the Chiefs spin doctors have two options after this season: they can either spin it as some kind of heroic “we didn’t quit” effort, or they can scapegoat Haley.  Pioli will never, ever admit any failures on his part, obviously.  If the Chiefs finish weak, the best way to save his own rep is to tarnish Haley’s.  If we finish strong, that becomes a less viable option.

It might seem silly to suggest that Haley’s job could come down to four essentially meaningless games, but I honestly think that’s where we’re at.  You can’t fire a guy who goes 7-9 with a bargain-basement, scrap-heap roster and a tough schedule.  5-11, losing the last four?  Totally different story.

Maybe Pioli and Haley get along perfectly.  But even if that were the case, heads have to roll after an unsuccessful season, particularly when the GM has done so little to hang his hat on.  What we have to ask ourselves is, will Bill Muir’s head be enough?  For a 7-9 season, I think so.  If things end ugly, I doubt it.

So if you’re a Haley fan, these last few games are still vitally important.  I know they are to him.  And ironically, that will probably make them more boring to watch.

Haley obviously thinks the way to overcome Tyler Palko is by not letting him throw.  Personally, I think dumbing down your passing game is almost never a good idea.  It’s like accepting a disadvantage.  Palko is bad, but every QB is bad if you don’t let them do anything.  So putting the training wheels on just ensures he’ll be bad.  Brodie Croyle all over again.

If Haley wants to miraculously win two more games, he’s going  to have to let Palko throw the ball downfield.  Is that likely to end well?  Probably not.  But the offense we saw yesterday will lose all four remaining games guaranteed.  I don’t want to see Haley go out like that, throwing WR screens and giving Thom Jones 16 carries.  If he’s gonna go down, I’d much rather see him go down swinging.  That would be more in character, more fun to watch, and more likely to steal him a couple wins.

These last four games are a time for Haley to make his case.  If you like him, you better be pulling hard for wins.  He needs them.  And with this resurgent, exciting defense, he has a chance to get them.

Never miss a chance to get your fix! Follow Arrowhead Addict on Twitter and be sure to like our Facebook page.

Comments
Comments have been disabled for this post.
Sort: Newest | Oldest

I agree i dont think Haleys calling plays when he adjusted muirs mouth piece sunday i was hoping that haley was telling him he was fired.

One hell of a thought provoking piece , Mattski!

I don't know how to weigh the injuries, but the five wins have been very uninpressive games each time involving a very bad QB or Rivers making an inexplicable mistake. The most impressive game was what the defense did against the Steelers. Our discussion about the number of wins affecting whether Pioli fires Haley is interesting, but aside from the virtual miracle of 8 of 9 wins (or beating the Packers), isn't Pioli going to make his decision based on his assessment of Haley as a coach and person (and his assessment of who is available), rather than being influenced by 5, 6 or 7 wins? Again, I think the decision is probably made already, subject to any big suprises the rest of the way.

last i read and heard hunt likes haley and believes he is the coach of the future. so unless pioli wants to upset the man with the final say haley will be back and i for one think he is good for this team. yeah he made a mistake or two but the players seem to be loyal to him.

With all due respect you guys are crazy if you think for one second Haley is going anywhere before 2012 starts. It's pretty rare a coach in his situation ( signifigant injuries coming off a post season run) gets fired. If we do badly again next season bet on it he'll be gone but until then I don't seem them letting him go but if I'm wrong I'll come back and eat my crow like a big girl.

@kcfanintx "but if I'm wrong I'll come back and eat my crow like a big girl." lol. I dunno man, before that Bears game I was pretty sure he was on the way out. I still think he might be. There is A LOT of smoke to the Haley hot seat rumors. I think where there is that much smoke, there is bound to be at least a little fire.

@Big Matt I know you're convince there's truth to those rumours and I can see your logic in thinking that. I am just as convinced they are BS and I think my reasons have some valid logic behind them also. I will be interesting to see how it turns out. Right now I can't say I know which result I prefer.

@kcfanintx Its definitely a fascinating situation. I'm not entirely sure what I want either, although I'm leaning towards wanting Haley back. I think there is truth to those rumors, but if Haley goes 6-10 or 5-11 and they still bring him back, that would be an indicator that you're more right than me. And hey, that could definitely happen. I don't think it will, but I won't pretend I'm certain. I am not.

@kcfanintx When we lose we lose horribly 9 out of 10 losses. Haley has been delt a bad hand but his offense and game management is pretty lame. I love his fire and I am a fan of Haleys but he must let the offense go.

@Danny W I'm not debating Haley's merrits or lackthereof. For one I'm not sure how I feel about him right now 2011 Haley seems to be a bit different from 2010 Haley and 2009 wasn't a good season to make a call... sort of like Cassel. "Will the real Haley please stand up?" What I'm debating is whether Kansas City will let him go. I say with a trip to post season last year and all the injuries this year he's got a free ticket. that would be the case with most teams and Kansas City is generally slower to fire their HCs than most.

@kcfanintx I would like to see him stay and hire a new offensive coordinator but I doubt that will happen. My prediction is if he wins the three more he stays he loses three he goes in the middle its a toss up.

I agree Haley was a winner yesterday, but only in a temporary media sense. The decision to fire Haley, subject to the unlikely possibility of 8 wins, is probably already made. Even if you generously assume the Chiefs have a 40% chance of beating each of the Jets, Raiders and Broncos, the probability of winning all three is 6% (I'm assuming virtually zero chance of beating the Packers) -- although the chance of getting two wins is a surprisingly high 25%. The "bump" will be a short term media phenomenum. In the big picture, the win will not be important -- a win based on a first half Hall Mary to beat a team with a lousy QB in a game where the Chiefs failed to cover a wide out at the 3 yard line (called back by a penalty) and got an interception when the receiver dropped a beautifuly thrown pass at the 2. Having said that, I agree that a loss to the Bearns would have been very damaging in terms of how the media treated Haley's prospect for returning next year. I think the tone of the KC media (Haley and Pioli don't get along - probably true in view of how openly the media reports it and no effort by either guy to bat it down) strongly suggests that Haley is going to get fired.

@KC Oracle With the state of our offense it is likely that we will lose 3 of the 4 remaining games. I dont think he will be retained if thats the case. If we steal three wins I think he stays. It will be because of the defense if we do win though. Two wins and a playoff birth he stays, two wins and no playoffs he goes is my prediction. I could care less either way. I like the guy but his offensive idea's are subpar in my opinion and his game management is below avg. too.

"Granted, being more likable than Scott Pioli and Clark Hunt is like being more pleasant than a kick in the testes." I love the quote buy hate the article. Haley isn't going anywhere no matter how many more games we lose. Bill Muir's ship has sailed. I also dislike the lack of faith in our boys. In anything the last weeks have proven that are D can beat anyone on any given day. Now the O is lacking and most likely will be our down fall. That said if we win out we will go to the play offs. I will not give up the season until we lose one more. Call me stupid but Sunday just bought me one more week of hope man, hope. Remember the 2011 Cardinals.

@ArrowFan Glad somebody liked that line. I guess i do have a lack of faith in our boys this season. But is that unreasonable? We've been outscored 268-163 this year. A playoff berth is technically possible, but the same could be said for the Royals in August every year. "Haley isn't going anywhere no matter how many more games we lose." You may be eating some serious crow on this one.

@ArrowFan I agree, as I posted in the Graverson piece. It is worth rephrasing here: this franchise will be ready to seriously contend next year. When healthy, they have marquee talent on both sides of the ball; Continuity at this point is a must. I can't see pulling the plug on an effort that is ready to blossom. Haley's personality is all over this team, and they are his Chiefs. They really play hard for him. He probably gets as much from this decimated crew as is humanely possible! No way Haley goes anywhere.

What does it mean when you say "Haley's personality is all over this team, and they are his Chiefs?" I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong. I just don't know what that means.

@Kurt Rauch @ArrowFan Excellent post! Pioli would be the fool so many want to label him as to get rid of the coach that took an out of shape bunch of losers and turned them around after one season to a division winner. We have been hobbled by injuries while playing a 1st place schedule and still he has them fighting against the odds still being play off eligible with 4 games to go. Seriously what the hell more do you want from this guy? Yes he has made mistakes but this is his 1st gig. At least he's not icing his own kicker to lose the game (Nice work Garret). Many of you projected us at 4-12 with best case being 7-9 or with a miracle 8-8 based on the difficult schedule and the fact that last year was a "mirage". Yet here we are with 5 wins, our D is kicking ass and the players are playing their hearts out. I'm proud of the Chiefs and every victory means something - it shows the heart of the team. Haley has turned them into winners!

@KC MikeG @kurt @ArrowFan Yep. 5-7 winners! (I kid) "Seriously what the hell more do you want from this guy?" As I said in the article, I'd like to see haley back. But surely you can see how people would want more from him, right? isn't it a little strange to say "what more can you want" about a guy who has never won a playoff game? I know its only his third year, but its not like he's setting the world on fire here. He's made some pretty obvious mistakes. Thom Jones has more touches than anyone else on this team. That is a SERIOUS problem. I mean, right?

Mike, You do remember these "Winners" just lost four in a row, right? I think the common denominator in the Chiefs wins this year has been either a very bad QB on the other side or, in the case of Rivers, a good QB who blew the game. That is not terribly promising. One could reasonably argue that in view of the injuries, Haley has done well to be 5 and 7 and should not be fired. One of Matt's points is that at 5 and 11 or 6 and 10, that argument is much harder to make. But I don't think his future has anything to do with whether you or I or anyone other than Piolia think he has done a good job. It will be a decision based on Pioli's judgment as to whether, after 3 years, he has the right guy to take the Chiefs to an upper tier team (and, to a lesser extent, who is available to replace him). The vibes are that Pioli is done with Haley; I don't think the media stuff about them not getting along would not be tolerated by Pioli (i.e., he would correct it if he wanted to Haley) if he intended to keep Pioli around. But, I could be wrong..

@KC Oracle Yes, I remember. I also remember them winning four in a row before that too. I was referrring to the attitude Haley has instilled in our players. They believe in him and each other and play like they could win every game. There's no quit in these guys and I love that. That strength and unity is the fuel that will power this team to victory for many years to come.I also saw an injury ravaged team take the Steelers and dolts right down to the final seconds. If those two games end w/o horrible mistakes we are 7-5. The way they bounce back from the beatings they have taken this year is night and day from the team he inherited from Herm. Pioli did provide an interview to the KC Star defending Haley after the colts game even though he has said from the start that Haley would be the voice of the organization.

@KC MikeG@kurt@ArrowFan I dont know man. I like your optimism but one touchdown on a Hail Mary play at the end of a half in a month and some change? Can he really make Bill MUir the scape goat here? I dont think he can. The offense is missing an avg to below avg starter in Cassel and a stud running back in Charles. That hurts but our wide outs are above avg and we cant find them unless there in the flats. How do you not give Stanzi a shot? I love Haley but if he loses 3 he has to go. Especially if the defense keeps us in games.

@Big Matt@kc@kurt@ArrowFan I get what you're saying BM but with the pile of crap team he was handed, the failure of the 2009 draft, being 30M under the cap, having zero depth at many spots, playing a 1st place schedule during the injury ravaged season he is fighting through this year.

@Big Matt@kc@kurt@ArrowFan Most predicted us to not even have a chance this year w/o the injuries yet here we are still in it in December w/o JC, Berry, Cassel, Moeaki. Playing with TJ, Battle, BRich, Shabby, DWash, Palko - Holy crap man, seriously what more do you want?

@Danny W@KC MikeG@kurt@ArrowFan I don't know if it will happen but I agree it should if if Muir is calling the shits and doing this badly Haley should be taking it out of his hands by now Honestly I don't think Palko should star another game unless we try Stanzi and find out somehow he's miraculous worse I don't see how he can be but hey Palko found a way to be worse than Croyle so anything's possible.

@kcfanintx @Danny W @KC MikeG @kurt @ArrowFan I still say Croyle was worse than Palko. His last start was the worst by a QB I've ever seen.

@KC MikeG @kc @kurt @ArrowFan I want haley to do a few things differently: 1) Stop lying- I know this comes down from on high, but jeez, just plead the fifth. His sarcastic, "Oh, this is the first I've heard ofit" stuff, I mean there is just no call for that. Again, I realize this comes from Pioli, but Haley has really embraced it and that bugs me. 2) Drop obsession with locker-room leaders in the starting lineup- If he wants to have these guys on the team, fine. But when Thom Jones is leading the team in touches there is obviously a serious problem. Jones is averaging 3 YPC and he's getting the ball more than ever. No excuse for that. 3) drop the old school stuff- Stop going for "tough wins". This is not a real thing. For a risk-taker, he's been real quick to punt from the 40, kick a FG when it does no good (Pitt) and put the training wheels on the offense. He glories in close, ugly wins, and I think if we were actually good that would bite us in the ass. Godd teams don't play like that. I agree w you that he's had to go through a lot this year, which is part of the reason I'd like to see him back again. but there is certainly a lot of room for imporvement from him. Agree? Disagree?

@Big Matt@kc@kurt@ArrowFan #1 - I could care less. The only reason I watch them is in hope of him saying something funny/sarcastic. I don't know if it's Hunt or Pioli or both but Haley never says anything. I know this angers you BM but find me an interview with a player that tells you anything either.

@Big Matt@kc@kurt@ArrowFan #2 - Every team needs leaders and many times they are veteran players. Pioli's 2010 draft is full of leaders who will be filling those roles as the teams developes. Agreed on TJ and while many seem to only remember DMC on the draw up the middle for at best 2 yards, if we would use him on pitches to the edge and screens he could make a difference for us. He has 25 fewer carries than Battle yet only 46 fewer yards and at a 4.7 YPC deserves the ball. No excuses for that.

." screen_name="undefined" provider="lf" class="namespace reply lf" jid="[email protected]" ns="true"> ." screen_name="undefined" provider="lf" class="namespace reply lf" jid="[email protected]" ns="true"> ." screen_name="undefined" provider="lf" class="namespace reply lf" jid="[email protected]" ns="true"> ." screen_name="undefined" provider="lf" class="namespace reply lf" jid="[email protected]" ns="true"> #3 - We are playing offense with both arms behind our back which is why Haley has been more conservative. I believe Muir has added to that. Yes, he has made some bad decisions but for him to get what he has out of what he has had to work with is incredible. Agreed - Definitely room for improvement.

@ArrowFan Bill Muir is part of Haleys failing. He cant relenquish any control of the offense. Those plays being called are Haleys plays, its what we've seen for the last three years even when Charlie Wiess was in there over 60 percent of the plays are what Haley wanted him to call. Seriously not kidding, draws, wide reciever screens, runs up the middle are what we call on 75 to 80 percent of the game.

@Danny W@ArrowFan Now this I question if Haley calls the shots on offense every season how come 2010 offensive calls and 2011 offensive calls are night and day? This is BEFORE Cassel got injured mind you if it was after the green QB would explain the conservative play calling but the offensive plays have been the equivalent of training wheels all season.

@kcfanintx@ArrowFan I watch every game twice. I tevo them. The plays are the same. Nothing has changed.

@Danny W @kcfanintx @ArrowFan oh wait... hold the phone. Arguement over... he's watched them twice. Twice people, twice! I think we can safely close the book on this topic now. TWICE!

@Danny W@ArrowFan Wait a minute I thought Chuck was the offensive genius that called the plays that allowed us to lead the NFL in rushing and created the WR with the most TD's that helped us to our division championship. So in reality it was Haley all the time? Cool! Really looking forward to next year when he has all his weapons back plus some new ones added before the season starts.

Who'd of thought that the week after a win you'd post a positive piece on Haley staying and I took him to task and questioned if he should be back in mine. Apparently its role reversal week. For the record, I'm pulling for Haley to win a few more and keep his job. I'd like to see him back.

Three years under pioli is proof enough that belichick was the man in New England . We need an oc and muir to go back to the o line. Haley go balls out next 4 games with the off. UP TEMPO EVERY SNAP WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO WIN......

I tend to agree, but events can change assessments and there does need to be patience. I read today how Pioli traded down in the first road to get the pick that produced Houston. So he turned one first round pick into Baldwin and Houston. Baldwin has stalled, but those two guys may turn out to be good players.

@KC Oracle that trade was probably the best thing he's done. I like it, but that still isn't saying much. It was a modest move. And we still likely could've gotten Houston with the pick we used on Allen Bailey that round.

@Big Matt@kc Arenas and Berry weren't exactly busts either n fact Berry was phenomonal last season. Arenas is a good pick also he has a good head for the game and is quietly becoming more of a factor in the secondary.

@Big Matt@kc Careful BM I think Bailey is going to replace either Dorsey or TJax next year.

@KC Oracle I disagree with Baldwin stalling. Right now he's a third option out there and should likely be a second. We are lucky if Palko gets out of his first progression.

It may be Palko's fault, but I'm not sure Baldwin is getting open, and his number certainly have "stalled:" OAK 1 catch for 14 yards SD 5 catches for 82 yards Mia 1 catch for 12 yeards Den 1 catch for 15 yards NE 3 catches for 16 yards Pitt 2 catches for 26 yards Chi 1 catch for 7 yards 82 yards in his second game; 76 yards in five games since. I think he might turn out to be a good player, but when I looked at him in person during the Miami and Den games, he did not seem to be getting open and, of course, Cassel was playing.

@Danny W@KC Oracle I agree Baldwin is fine you just have to get the ball to him. That's the problem.

@KC Oracle I realize his numbers have dropped but if you give the guy a chance to catch it he will. His catches this year the deep touchdown and the one that got called back are probowl caliber type catches. He has anybody but the QBs we have throwing the ball he's got a 1000 yds this year. Plus I'm a homer when it comes to Baldwin I really like him.

If you believe the local radio guys, Haley is without a doubt gone if we don't make the playoffs. Hopefully this more reasonable assessment is accurate. Who knows? The most damning thing I think Haley has against him is that he's an offense guy who's at least been meddling heavily in if not running our offense, which has been horrific. Agree with Danny W that if Haley comes back he's got to relinquish control to a proven guy. By the way, how great was that Tin Man sack? I confess that I leapt off my couch and into the air when I saw that. I hadn't realized until then how desperately I want that guy to be good.

@greens the tin man sack. sure, i too jumped from my seat with excitement. he beat his man, but it looked like he kind of got blocked into that sack. i have to admit, while i think he might be the worst player in the nfl and bla bla, i recently found that i've a soft spot in my heart for the tin man. i'll bet that sack was a huge confidence booster, and i was happy for him. but i think that's the only way it's going to happen. i believe that - even in a one-on-one situation without interference - t jack is not capable of catching and bringing down a qb. i don't know. do you still think there's a chance t jack will be good? it would be nice to get together over some coffee and discuss this further. you still in the kansas city area?

Jackson is looking better. The sack was big and he did seemingly overpower and beat his man. However, if the QB had stepped up, it would have just been Tin Man flying past the QB and never really having a shot at him. On Haley, I just don't see anything that suggests is he likely to be a coach who takes a team deep into the playoffs.

@The Centaur @greens Intellectually, from a distance, I want Tin Man to do well because it would help the team. But when I see a QB go down, the last thing I want is for it to be him that did the deed (or Dorsey). Hali, Houston, Gilby, Bailey, DJ, anyone but the LSU block eaters. They don't deserve it, they haven't earned it. No soft spot here. I'm really looking ferward to a time when these guys don't play for us. Its his third year, this is who Tyson Jackson is. A slow, stiff, horrendous pass defender who is allegedly kind of good against the run. A lucky sack allows so many people (Pioli most of all) who were wrong about him to act like they were right. No bueno. Let me put it this way: I'd rather have a Tin Man sack than a successful play by the offense. But I'd also rather have a sack from literally anyone else on our team than him.

@Big Matt still find your defensive line assessments humorous. They used to make me mad until I realized you haven't a clue (it's awesome that your sole barometer is still sack total). Here's the deal.. If the linebackers in a 3-4 are making plays that means they aren't getting blocked. That means the 3 linemen are tying up 5 guys. DJ is having a spectacular because the interior of the offensive line isn't making it to the second level. The defense lives or dies at the line. With the way our defense is playing your undue criticism just makes you look stupid to people that actually know what they're talking about.