There Is No Such Thing As Rebuilding

by Chiefs

Late November, for most of the past five or six years, has been a strange time to be a Chiefs fan.  A time for reflection, frustration and bewilderment.  A time for realizing that yes, your season is over and no, this will not be the year things change for this team you support.

Do some people quit watching at this point in the season?  I suppose so.  My boy The Centaur called just before AA radio began yesterday to talk about the game.  I told him my watch party was down to two people.  He confided that his was a solo mission.  Couldn’t find anyone willing to bust a Chiefs hang.

So yeah, maybe some fans do quit watching.  I don’t blame them.  The last time I bought a Royals internet package, I quit in July.  But I think the vast majority of us are still tuning in.  Even when the season is essentially over, a Chiefs game is still such an event.  Sunday afternoon remains a sacred time.  We look for individual performance, evaluate young players, and think about how things will be better next year.  We console ourselves in the knowledge that this team is, after all, still rebuilding.

Pardon my Polish, but that’s a bunch of bullshit. Find out why after the skacac:

I don’t mean the Chiefs’ version of rebuilding, specifically; I mean the whole concept of rebuilding in the NFL.  This isn’t the MLB.  Teams don’t trade their veteran players for prospect bundles.  When a player is traded for a draft pick, it’s usually because of a dispute of some kind.  And the team getting rid of the player rarely gets good value.

In any case, mass trading of players for picks (NFL equivalent of prospects) just doesn’t happen in the NFL like it does in baseball.  Teams usually head into a draft with close to the same amount of picks.  There is far more trading done on draft day than in the rest of the offseason.  And the most consistent trader, Bill Belichick, is most definitely not rebuilding.

Let’s come at this from a Chiefs-pecific angle now: what is Scott Pioli doing that constitutes rebuilding?  What does he do that makes this a rebuilding team?

Make draft picks?  Every team does that, every year.  Every team wants to invest in its future, and every team takes the draft seriously.  This isn’t the ’80s.

Rebuilding teams are known for filling the roster with young guys, right?  Is that what the Chiefs have done since Pioli took over?  Didn’t he promptly trade away a high, second round pick when he arrived*?  And hasn’t he signed a slew of veteran locker-room guys ever since?

*To be fair, he did get another second rounder for Tony Gonzalez.  Turning Gonzalez into Javier Arenas isn’t exactly a slam-dunk, but it was a rebuild-ish move.  The only major example I can think of since Pioli came to KC. 

Would a rebuilding team cling to Mike Vrabel until he pulled the plug on his own career?

Would a rebuilding team be sitting a second-round pick behind a mediocre player pushing 40?

Would a rebuilding team give 13 carries to Thom Jones?

We don’t need to debate the merits of any of those decisions.  All we need to acknowledge is that the Chiefs are doing nothing to classify themselves as a rebuilding team.  Nothing, that is, besides losing.

Don’t misunderstand me here, I’m not saying Pioli should be rebuilding but isn’t.  I’m saying the very concept is a fallacy in the NFL. A fallacy meant to keep fans like us pacified.

You know who loves talk of “rebuilding”?  Clark Hunt, that’s who.  Because every year this fan base swallows a “rebuild” is a year he can make millions of dollars without having to put a competitive product on the field.  For Hunt, that is the ultimate score.  He’s managed to stretch the current “rebuild” into a five-year project, going on six.  Business is good.

I expect we’ll see more of our rookies as the season progresses, and that will be interesting.  But we need to be clear on this: playing rookies more once your season is over does not mean you’re a rebuilding team.  Every losing team in professional sports does that, every season.  If you want to call that “rebuilding”, then rebuilding is just a synonym for losing.

Game notes:

  • I’ve said all season that my man D-Bowe was bound to make a few costly errors before the season ended.  Haley didn’t coach that out of him.  It’s part of who Bowe is.  And to steal a quote from JFK’s girl, Marilyn Monroe, if you don’t love Bowe at his worst, you don’t deserve him at his best.
  • If you step into my Chiefs office and open up my “players I like” file, you’ll find numerous glossy 8x10s of Jon Asamoah and Kendrick Lewis.  Going about their business, never noticing the guy in the construction outfit across the street…..
  • How ’bout when that graphic of Tin Man and Dorsey came up last night?  I mean how ignorant was that?  It’s like NBC doesn’t even know they’re supposed to pretend those guys are good.
  • Another game, another sack for Amon Gordon.  He’s running away with this one.
  • We’ve all seen Justin Houston make mistakes, but the talent is obviously there.  So often when people talk about a rookie having “ups-and-downs” it’s really just to justify a guy playing poorly.  But with Houston, it’s actually true.  He looks like a rookie, but less so every week.  His ceiling is obviously very high.  Too bad he’s such a lazy stoner, right guys?  Unacceptable!  Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna go drink 10 beers and hang out in public.  I prefer legal activities, thanks.
  • Hey, Palko, uh…….keep your chin up?
  • I still think Matt Cassel is going to be our starting quarterback next season.  Because, right or wrong, I think Haley is going to be fired after this season.  And firing Haley and Cassel in the same offseason would mean Pioli admitting that his first effort was pretty much a total failure.  I don’t see that happening.
  • I didn’t like Collinsworth criticizing my boy D-Bowe obviously, but the fact that he’s willing to take people to task and go out on limbs is awesome.  Here’s to you, Collinsworth.  You will one day lose your job for speaking truth.

Final note: It’s officially time to start Orton-watch.  I’ll assume one bad game to start off, but the final four could be a good time.  Decent defense+resurgent offense?  I’m thinking two wins.

 

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Boy I have missed you Big Matt! A few points * Your dead on about cassel, we won't draft a qb because he's Pioli's guy. Which sucks, considereing we're in line to land one of the big three next year...then again, look at the drop off between palko and cassel.... * I really hope your wrong about firing haley next year. That guy got handed a shit sandwich this year(especially with palko, good lord he's terrible...I saw him actually point to a WR he was going to throw too). I know your argument on depth, etc. But c'mon Losing berry and JC in the same season? I think God doesn't want haley to succeed this year. *Personally, I'm excited about everyone coming back and being healthy next year. Of course I say that every year, which probably keeps me from drinking so much. *Our O-line was great v. pittsburgh, I wonder how much Ol' Hudson and Asamoah had to do with that..

@AdamSchefers It's not that God doesn't want Haley to win it's just the He has his hands full helping lil' timmy teblow win. NO WAY Pioli fires Haley after winning in 2nd season and the injuries this year. He will be here next year and earn himself a new contract. Agree on the OL Hudson and Asamoah are really going to help now draft/FA a C and LT, move Alberts to RT and JC will rule again!

@KC MikeG@AdamSchefers Nobody in the NFL coaches with just 1 year remaining on their contract. If Pioli doesn't offer Haley a contract extension at years end, then Haley will not be the coach of the Chiefs. Boy I can't wait for the Kirk Ferentz era to begin and end. Hopefully this offseason Pioli gets tired of Ozzie Newsome putting a clown suit on him. It makes sense to not try and sign a premiere LT and take the one the Ravens don't want. PIOLI has a dozen eggs on his face right now after releasing Gaither.

@big GREASE@KC MikeG If Capt. Kirk goes anywhere, it's Penn State. He grew up there, idolizes JoePa and would have amazing success there wih that recruiting pool. Personally, I'd be pretty pissed since I grew up a hawkeye fan. Didn't John Fox coach with one year on his contract with the panthers? BM will tell me I drink the koolaid a bit, but Hunt has said multple times he wants KC to follow the Pittsburgh model, hopefully meaning we keep our Head coach until he wins a super bowl. In terms of rebuilding, I think we need to re-start with our defensive line, Jackson hasn't done too much and it seems like Dorsey is regressing. Other than QB, where are we lacking besides depth(obvious)

BM I disagree heres why...................... I think Ol Scotty gets a mulligan not from me but from Clark for a short time to prepare for the Tyson Jackson number three overall get. So scratch 2009. Its a two year build. I thought Hudson did well last night and I think Asamoua is going to be good for along time. So there is some effort to rebuild the line with young players. Why the Chiefs arent letting Rodney play any sooner I would assume is on Haley. Pioli got him Haley has to play him right? One would think it would be on Pioli though over the Mike Vrabel fiasco and the Patriot way but now we have an improving rookie in there. There really is no defending the Thom Jones current fiasco, though I would have to think any running back off of the street could do a better job but still I think its Haley that loves him. Our secondary if healthy could last another six years. Our line with the addition of a right tackle could do the same. (If allowed to play) Technically though needed improvement our D line could last atleast six more years. I wish they would use Allen Bailey more though. Now we need a franchise QB. We have a franchse RB who needs a backup and I dont think its Jackie Battle. My point is we are young with alot of really good up and coming talent. Were Scott Pioli has failed is the depth in free agency.

I can't seem to find a quote in which Haley, Pioli, or Hunt even mention the word rebuilding in reference to 2011. Am I just missing the article? If so could you send me a link? It sounds like the media and fake media are the only ones using the "r" word

@TrappedInDonkeyland In your opinion are the Chiefs rebuilding?

@Danny W No.. building depth and adding a few starters is needed but this team is nowhere near rebuild mode. They aren't going to blow up the roster and start over at the end of the year nor have they done so in the past couple years

@TrappedInDonkeyland@danny I think they are still in the process of building. I dont mean in anyway that they are going to blow up the roster, everyone important is signed with the exception of Bowe and Carr. I think Pioli is still going to add young key players through the draft which in my perception is furthering the build. The rebuild really began after we lost Roaf, Shields, Trent Green, Tony G, and Jared Allen during the Herm erra. But since we are not done at key positions like quarterback and right tackle we are still rebuilding from the Dick Vermiel era in my opinion.

@Danny W @danny every team has holes to fill every year, I don't think that constitutes a rebuilt. Do you think the Steelers were rebuilding when they drafted Rothlesburger?

@danny rebuild not rebuilt..

@TrappedInDonkeyland@danny I dont care about spelling mistakes my degree is Science related so I goof up alot too. I will just stick to what I said earlier they are furthering the build they started when Jared Allen was traded. They are not done building yet but I think they are close. Not starting over but stil in the process.

@TrappedInDonkeyland They have Looney and Arrowheadpride for that. And they will make liberal use of both, as we both know. In any case, sounds like we are in agreement. The Chiefs are most definitely NOT rebuilding. Just losing.

@Big Matt agreement?? Wait that can't be right....

I would disagree to a point. Take Indianapolis, for example, they were a great team that was in the playoffs every year and even won a Super Bowl. Now they are looking at 0-16 and possibly a new HC and QB next year. That would be rebuilding, as in they were great and now they are trying to "rebuild" their team. The Chiefs however would not qualify as "rebuilding" because they haven't been really good in a very long time. Scott Pioli took over a really bad team and is trying to "build" it into a good team. This year shouldn't be considered a rebuild but year three of Pioli trying to build a winning team. Thus far he hasn't succeeded. The team definitely showed signs of improvement last year so I am willing to give Pioli a couple more years before I start to call for his job.

@LyleGraversen Indy is an interesting and perhaps unique situation (great for Indy getting Luck). But I think you are correct the proper way to look at the sitaution is that this is year 3 of Pioli trying to build a top tier team. The biggest problem is that he just has not added many top flight players, arguably only Berry so far and, with the 5th draft choice, it would be a significant failure to land a top quality player, e.g. Tin Man.

@KC Oracle@LyleGraversen The draft is such a hit or miss. My problem is Pioli has a mental image of what is needed in players and "talent" has a backseat to mouth shut, coach supporter, never a problem. Can we put together a team where talent is not the most important part of a player's description.

@tm1946@KC Oracle@LyleGraversen So you're saying our draft picks aren't talented?

@LyleGraversen Yeah I guess Indy is going to be an actual rebuild. And every so often that does occur. But there are like 8 teams this year alone whose fans will be told they are "rebuilding." Its just such a crock of shit. As for Pioli, I want to see at least one more offseason. the case on him is not closed yet, by any means. I just think the idea that people will claim his third year was a "rebuild" is ridiculous.

@Big Matt @LyleGraversen who exactly is claiming this?

@Gjrchief @BIG @LyleGraversen just Big Matt :) story just about writes itself

Pioli is smart enough not to use the term rebuild and, if so, he would have instructed Haley not to use it. However, how many thousand times has Haley said the Chiefs are a developing team, not a good team yet and similar stuff. You don't need to be a genuis to understand they are artfully seeking refuge in the "rebuild" sanctuary. Also, "build" and "rebuild" seem the same. Pioli and Haley have consistently characterized the team they inherited as a problem they had to fix (true), and by endlessly reminding people, they are effectively saying they need time to rebuild the team. Isn't year four (if not year 3) the point where we no longer want to hear about how they are a developing and improving team?

@KC Oracle No, I want a team that is always developing young players and improving the team by signing our best players and getting valuable FA's. If yolur not getting better then you are stagnant and starting to fail.

@KC Oracle There is a huge difference between build and rebuild. Great teams build every year or they become losers. Rebuild to me means start over. Our healthy roster isn't that far off. Did I expect them to be better? yes Did I think they would win the superbowl? No Is it time to go after the head coach and front office? Absolutely not

." screen_name="undefined" provider="lf" class="namespace reply lf" jid="[email protected]" ns="true"> Plus.. Those guys hung in there with a pretty damn good team

@TrappedInDonkeyland Rebuild does not necessarily mean starting over; it more means building again something you once had. But the distinction between build and rebuild is semantics when you are talking about lower tier teams. The discussion here also is not about what great teams do. If you think "build" is the right word to describe what great teams do in order to remain a great team, that's fine, but I don't think it has much to do with the subject of this discussion - which is whether Haley and Pioli effectively have used the "rebuild" excuse over the past three years, even though they have not used that word. Of course they have. Haley uses it virtually every time he is before a microphone - developing team, etc. I even think it was a valid excuse in year 1, but not in year 3 or 4.

@KC MikeG Every fan and every team wants what you say. But when you answer "no" to my question, that means it is okay with you for Haley (if he is around) and Pioli in year 4 to continue to talk about how the Chiefs are still a developing and improving team and for them to continue perform far below the top tier teams in the league. You are patient, or a smitten, man.

@KC Oracle Patience is a virtue. Let me give you an example. The Master of the Coaching Universe Bellichick. One winning season in his 1st 5 years and the brownies fire him - bet the dog pound would like to have a do over on that one. Those top teir teams you want us to play like were not rebuilt from complete disasters at 10-38 in their 3rd year. By the way we did happen to win the division in their 2nd year. If that isn't a development or sign of improvement I don't know what is. No way Haley is gone for what he has done with what he has had to work with, the difficult schedule and the critical injuries. Every one of the 2010 draft are playing and/or starting and two from 2011. Pioli is failing us - Wrong!

@KC Oracle@TrappedInDonkeyland Much more than semantics. Build is when you add a game room on or install marble counter tops to improve the value of your home while rebuilding is much more monumental like your home was taken over by vandals (who shall remain nameless) and now you have to take the walls down to the studs, install new drywall, paint, replace flooring, fixtures but luckily they didn't notice that pic of JC in the Hali.

@TrappedInDonkeyland@KC Oracle Exactly! Hey TIDL what are your thoughts on Orton? Can he come in and utilize the weapons we have and salvage teh season? Can he compete with Cassel next year?

@KC MikeG Smitten. Starry eyed over year two 10 and 6, but blind to the 4 and 12 book ends.

@KC Oracle Sounds like your looking a a mirror. Unaccepting of any successes (easy schedule) yet unwavering in assigning fault. I saw all seasons as they really were. 4-12 while cleaning house and trying to identify the biggest holes to be filled before worrying about what color the drapes should be. 10-6 division winner, easier schedule, lead the NFL in rushing, top TD WR in NFL, Pro Bowlers including a rookie. ASSuming we don't win another game all year to go 4-12 (Nice outlook - how sad for you) with everyone of those Pro Bowlers on IR, 1st place schedule getting our ass handed to us 4 times, 3 games we were one play from winning, Palko at QB, holding the #4 Power Ranked team in the NFL to one TD and no 2nd half points with Shabby, Daniels, McGraw, still have holes to fill at RT, C, ILB, TE, DL and depth at safety, RB. Hardley smitten but I can see the stars through your fog.

@KC Oracle@KC MikeG I think a certain amount of blindness is called 4 in '11 not total but some. It's irrational to say that Charles' and Berry's absences at least have not played a pretty decent part in this season's slide. Does it account for all of it? Of course not but then again this team wasn't supposed to be going to post season last year. Haley didn't acknowledge it as anything other than a very remote possibility until it had become a probability. I'm not sure how I feel about Haley right now. I liked 2010 Haley... he's different this year, watered down if you will. We need a gutsy coach.

Pioli I think is doing ok let's see how he does the next draft and we will have a really good idea if he's worth keeping. We have a lot of good pieces in place. If they fix the O-line and add a good pass rusher that will go a long way. I think this would be an excellent year to draft a good young QB. Last year's class didn't have quite the pickings this year's has. @KC Oracle@KC MikeG

@TrappedInDonkeyland @Gjrchief @BIG @LyleGraversen Wait wait wait, so you guys DON'T think the Chiefs have been sheltering behind "rebuild" for most of the last five years? Or is it just this year you're contesting? You guys aren't Arrowheadpride readers, I take it? Or KC Star message board? Gretz? People in those comments sections drop rebuild all the time, it just doesn't happen here because, in my opinion, this site's homers are smarter than other site's homers. The term will be used, and has been used.

@kcfanintx @KC Oracle @KC MikeG I agree with the "watered down" assessment, although I suppose thats understandable given the stress he's gone through this season. Its probably broken him, somewhat. This is a guy who has to worry about his livelihood every day now. Seeing them punt inside the other team's territory, or kick that field goal in the 4th Sunday night, its like, come on Haley, this isn't you.

@KC MikeG @KC Oracle But belichick has had a winning season every year with the Pats except his first. WAY different arc. And, in point of fact, both he and Sean Payton did have their teams turned around by their third year, right? Belichick certainly did. And the Saints won the Super Bowl in year 4. To me the regression from last season to this is a pretty strong indicator that last season was a mirage (we sort of knew that at the time too).

@KC MikeG I think Orton has a better deep ball than Cassel. I think Orton gets the ball out quicker. They're similar QB's.. we're going to have to give Kyle a clean pocket to throw from. I think he is light years ahead of Tyler Palko and should give us the best chance. I personally think, unless Kyle comes in here and tears it up, that he won't be on the roster next year. I'm think the pick up is an absolute no brainer. It keeps other teams we're playing from getting him. Worst case another team signs him at the end of the year and we get a compensatory pick, best case he tears it up and we have another option at QB. He does have a ROCKIN' neck beard

@Big Matt Not tryin to slam a fellow Chief clan but the ol boys over at Gretz's site are out to burn you at the stake if you speak any negetive or ill will about the Chiefs team or the Chiefs Brass. Its down right stupid. They all piled on Gretz earlier this year for saying something about how greedy Hunt was bieng compared to the rest of the league owner. He had proof. They ccouldn't hear it. It was like Clark Hunt was their God.

Orton will be interesting, but he also will place Pioli and the Chiefs in a dilemma. [I assume Haley is gone.] Sure, Pioli will be embarassed at giving up on Haley and Cassel at the same time, but he is a smart guy and the ONLY way he will succeed is if he builds a team that is in consistently a top tier team. So, he will dump both of them if there is a quarterback option that provides the basis for the Chiefs to be a top tier team. There is the dilemma. Orton may be expensive and may not be the answer. My guess is that unless Orton stars in his five week rental, Pioli goes in another direction. That might mean another year of Cassel, after Pioli drafts a potential top tier QB or otherwise finds one. But one problem is that it is hard to get a top flight experienced head coach without a top flight QB. So we may be stuck with another NFL inexperienced coach. Pioli has failed to acquire talent thus far. Berry is the only one of the top Chief players who has even been acquired by Pioil. It is a very bad record thus far and, perhaps, is an indication that Pioli will never be a success. It is the most objective evidence to consider thus far.

@KC Oracle I agree that he (Pioli) definately hasnt done enough in free agency but The jury is still out on our two first picks this year. Jon Baldwin and Rodney Hudson are going to be pretty good gets I'm thinkin. Arenas is playing pretty solid ball and they may let him take Carr's spot. Asamoua looks like he could start for years. But this year at tackle he made a cheap low risk gamble on Gaither and thats it. At safety depth he absolutely failed. Although I think my boy Travis Daniels will make a fine safety. Every time Daniels gets a start he gets a pick. I've been yelling for them to get Daniels on the field for the last two seasons. I dont think he has failed totally but the Tyson Jackson get is an absolute miss, infact with out Succoup there it would be an entire miss.

@Danny W@KC Oracle Still 3 years of Pioli drafting, about 7 picks each year, the good ones are a minority, big time. Oh and about Succop, with a decent competition next pre season, he may be gone. His success rate is about the middle of the league, the Chiefs need better at every position if they want to get to the playoffs, average will not do it.

@tm1946@Danny W@KC Oracle Would that be the same Succup that has out scored every player on the team this season? He should be MVP. I don't know where he ranks in the league... don't really care. Wha I DO know is this... if we put together a decent offense Succup is certainly reliable enough to kick a field goal or two when we need it. Maybe after we have the offense in hand if he hasn't improved replacing him would be in order but right now he's pretty far down on the replacement priority list IMHO.

@kcfanintx@tm1946@KC Oracle Agreed on the Succoup point kcfantix. He started out bad but turned it around quickly during the Minnesota game hitting a 54 yarder I believe that game. I dont think he's missed a field goal since.

I just don't understand why everybody is calling for Stanzi. I know Palko shouldn't be a starting NFL QB but I think the fact that the Chiefs didn't activate him until last week and didn't consider putting him in last night is a good indication that he is not ready and probably has zero grasp of the offense. The Stanzi pick might have had something to do with Pioli' old pal Ferentz. I also feel terrible for Hali/Flowers/DJ but I think once the Chiefs are forced to spend their money that they will still be an integral part of this team. I also felt like Hudson had a pretty decent game last night. Thats a pretty tough team to face in your 1st career start. The only thing that saves Haley is Clunts hunger to become the next member of the Rooney family.

@big GREASE In any other case I would have to agree but if you look at how this team has evaluated talent in the past by almost letting Charles go Sabby Piscatelli, so on and so on who knows what Stanzi has?

Although this season has been some what sucky keep in mind we are missing some huge pieces(jamaal Christ,Eric Berry,Tony M.) Which Is a huge reason for a 10-6 playoff team. release cassel,keep hailey to give him one more year, draft RGIII and pay orton fingers crossed. And for the love of Football fire bill muir! (trash OC). #chiefsgo

I sincerely hope Haley doesn't get axed. My hope: the end of the season is a dress rehearsal for Orton. He does well (I know, but I said it's my hope), we keep Haley, ditch Cassel, still draft a QB 1 and keep Orton for another year. Then we have 2 potential young QBs to take over in 2013, with the other (probably Stanzi) as the back-up.

@sidibeke I would be happy to keep them both and draft a new one but somehow I don't think that will happen.

@sidibeke I think Orton is here for one year, and then looks for a better team to start for...