Chiefs Need Q/A: Quitters Anonymous

by Chiefs

The Chiefs were just two plays away from winning this one. But, it appears they gave up. On the plays, the gam, and the season.

It looks like they quit.

I first noticed the quitters phenomena in college. I was attending Northern Arizona University working on a coaching degree and was naturally involved in intramural team sports. While playing volleyball I noticed that as some teams fell behind by six or more points, they’d give up. Their motivation to do this appeared to be to move on to the next game, a game they hoped they could be competitive in. Since that time I’ve seen this phenomena in almost every sport and almost every level of competition.

Todd Haley said recently that the Chiefs seem to play better when their backs are up against the wall. So, it begs the question, what kind of effort are the Chiefs players giving when their backs are not up against the proverbial wall?

In the case of the Chiefs, I’m not sure if  they’re  giving up so they can move on to the next game… or if they’re giving up so they can move on to the next season.

It’s not so much that the players have consciously given up as… they’re just not giving their best effort. However, for all practical purposes, there’s no difference.

This phenomena is most observable in the Bills, Lions and Dolphins games when they fell behind. However, this trend can also be seen in the Broncos game.

Two plays stick out from Sunday’s game that exemplify their giving less than their best effort and yes, it cost them the game.

8:48 left in the 1st quarter- Denver’s ball on the Chiefs 30-yard line, 2nd and 7, no score

The Broncos call a running play (surprise) designed to go up the middle between their center and right guard. It is initially blocked well which opens a wide hole for Knowshon Moreno to run through but Derrick Johnson sniffs it out and does a good job of darting to fill the gap and meeting the fullback there.

Moreno takes the hand off and, seeing the hole closing, uses his quick feet to bounce it towards the right sideline. Tyson Jackson is tied up, not held, but kept from breaking free soon enough to get close to Moreno. Next, it’s up to Andy Studebaker to box Moreno in but, Moreno gets to the outside easily and Studebaker’s lunging dive barely touches Moreno.

Moreno breaks into the open field but just as he’s gaining momentum, Brandon Flowers dives at Moreno’s legs and Moreno jumps over Flowers who whiffs and misses him completely. Jovan Belcher appears on the scene after Moreno has run by him and Belcher is not fast enough to keep up. Moreno runs up the sideline for a 24 yard gain before being forced out of bounds by Jon McGraw at the six-yard line. Jon McGraw started the play on the opposite side of the field so he came a long way to make the play. Further than Belcher.

Two plays later the Broncos score a TD on a Tim Tebow run up the middle. Tebow’s run looks like a ball of cookie dough in a pinball machine, barely oozing by the bumpers. Chiefs tacklers looked like they had pinball flipper bats for arms incapable of grabbing and clutching.

Aside from Derrick Johnson, who fulfilled his duties on this play, it appeared as if half of the Chiefs defense blew it. Tyson Jackson didn’t set the edge or force Moreno back up the middle… and he didn’t tackle him either.  Andy Studebaker got suckered inside and could hardly lay a hand on Moreno. Studebaker’s lateral agility is below average, and it shows on this play. The usually dependable Brandon Flowers played a bad game and his attempt to tackle Moreno was poor. Moreno is not an Olympic high jumper but Flowers made him look like one. Belcher was so late on the play that he was a total non-factor. You could nickname him the X-Factor. Belcher eventually landed on top of everyone after the tackle was made. While I appreciate Jon McGraw tackling Moreno and pushing him out of bounds I couldn’t help but think about what a healthy Eric Berry would have been capable of doing on that play, much closer to the line of scrimmage.

Jackson, Studebaker, Belcher and Flowers all looked like they were giving less than their best effort. What’s the antonym of inspiring?

Since this play was a 2nd and 7, had the Chiefs held the Broncos on that down, then the crowd would have been given the chance to make some noise as they often do on 3rd downs and perhaps even force Tim Tebow to make a play using his arm. Getting the crowd involved early would have been a big help.

On this day, it wasn’t to be. Did the Chiefs give up on that play? Did the Chiefs give up after that? We can’t say for sure but there seems to be a pattern. If the Chiefs fall behind… a little bit, it can become… a lot, very quickly.

6:52 left in the 4th quarter- Denver’s ball on their own 43 yard line, 3rd and 10, Broncos up 10-7

The Chiefs kept themselves in this game and with 6:52 left in the 4th quarter they are one 3rd down stop away from getting the ball back and driving down the field to tie the game or take the lead. Tebow is in the shotgun and prior to the snap Brandon Flowers is turned toward Brandon Carr calling out directions.

Denver wide-out Eric Decker is lined up to the right side but, fairly tight to the line of scrimmage. Flowers is five yards off the line and back pedals ahead of Decker as he comes off the ball. The Chiefs rush four including Justin Houston from the left side. The Broncos keep extra players back for protection but don’t really need it as Tebow is never pressured. Not just on this play… but the whole game. The Chiefs have extra linebackers who could blitz but it’s not called on this play and Decker runs an out-and-up pattern and uses his speed to get separation. Tebow takes three steps back, looks to his left for a second then unleashes a long pass down the right side line outside of the numbers and for the first time in this life, his pass doesn’t look like a punt.

At the moment that the ball is going to be released the Chiefs have no one closer than three yards to Tebow. Houston is the closest but someone comes over to help double team him at the last second. Amon Gordon puts his hand in the air but there’s no way he could block this high arching pass that goes from the Broncos 35 to the Chiefs 18, covering 47 yards in the air. Glenn Dorsey and Tamba Hali are nowhere near Tim Tebow when the ball is released.

As the ball approaches Eric Decker, he has clearly beaten Brandon Flowers by two to three yards. Reshard Langford comes over to help but he’s too late too. Flowers appears to give up on the play before, and then again after the ball is caught. No one touches Decker and the ball lands right in his hands without him breaking stride. Touchdown Broncos. Flowers may have thought he had help deep from Langford and that he was going to pass Decker off to Langford at some point in Decker’s route but Flowers clearly had no one else to cover and no run responsibility. Consequently, Flowers allowing Decker to run by him is inexplicable. Flowers giving up on the play is even more pronounced when you watch the play on tape. Once Decker catches the ball, Flowers clearly stops running down the field… completely. It reminds me of baseball players who don’t run out their ground outs or pop ups.

With the Broncos now ahead 17-7, at that point, the Chiefs had only mounted 1 TD drive all day so, when the Chiefs were faced with having to mount two scoring drives in the last 6 minutes of the game, it just wasn’t going to happen. And it didn’t. Cassel gets hurt. Palko drives for three. We all walk to our cars.

Should Brandon Flowers be given a free pass (no pun intended) on this one, because he’d been forced to “play the run” the whole game? No. The Broncos had already attempted to go long in this game, and he should have known that this is exactly what they’d be doing again. Besides that, it’s his job. Plus, if he’d played bump and run at the line of scrimmage on this play, the play would have gone differently. This is the same Brandon Flowers who played Vincent Jackson so brilliantly just two weeks previously.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The point being, Brandon Flowers didn’t give his best effort on that play. He gave up in the middle of the play. And, it cost the Chiefs the winning touchdown.

And the game.

And probably the season.

We can only hope it didn’t cost them their coach.

Maybe the Chiefs could start their own Quitters Anonymous group.

Let’s start this Q/A meeting by going around the circle and introducing ourselves. Who’ll begin? “Hello, my name is Brandon, and I’m a quitter.”

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Wow! You certainly picked a polarizing topic Laddie. When I watched the play live I too, noticed that Flowers gave up on the play. I think he gave up on it at the point he knew he would not be able to catch him, but it did look bad. I have to agree Gjrchief that this was a blown coverage and part of the quit you saw in Flowers was frustration that the safety misplayed the play and in so doing made it look like Flowers was at fault. I had a bad feeling about this game all week long. On paper we should have blown them out, and to get beat by a bad option college run game was nothing short of embarressing. Sadly it will be a miracle if Haley survives at the end of the season. I think we will be hard pressed to win another game this season and since the post season is already gone I guess I am okay with that. Now is the time to find out what we have in players and get a strong evaluation for next season.

@Big Jim Big Jim... yes, I choose this title to be exactly that... polarizing. Sometimes I think we get lackadaisical as fans when it comes to holding our teams feet to the fire. I can ID things... patterns... that could be called quitting when it comes to Scott Pioli too. Perhaps what we're seeing on the field is a reflection of what's going on in the clubhouse/front office. I can only think how frustrating it must be for many of the Chiefs core players to watch as the front office makes some of their strange decisions. I'm just hoping that the quitting hasn't become organizationally endemic.

Hello I'm Romeo Crennel and ahhhh...... I'm a quitter. I knew Denver was going to run the ball and the option to boot and well I obviously failed to plan for it. I have games were I look like a brilliant genous and others like I'm brain dead. They continued to pound the rock and I didn't adjust at all. I wanted the offense to help out a bit and they couldn't so I quit. I quit using my head. HOnestly its time I got a little more blame around this place but I dont so I'll stick around.

I also noticed that Flower was signaling something prior to the snap (shown in the first still photo), with his right hand up in the air. I don't know if it had any effect on the play, bue it looked like he might have been confused or asking for help/informatoin and it certianly showed he was not focused on the receiver at that point in time (although DB's look casual before many plays).

Tough analysis. Quitter is too perjorative a word to use, but you came up with a couple of very good examples of players putting up less than full effort. So you have some evidence, compared to the subjective assessments of many. I never understand the adulation of Flowers around here. You said he played brilliantly against SD and maybe he had those moments, but he also was beat late in a big play. He looked awful on the Tebow TD pass, and it did not look like he was in a zone or expecting to turn Decker over to the safety.

I'm concerned that this can become an epidemic but, in some ways I think it already has become that. Paddy pointed out that Houston has progressed but, I don't think very many Chiefs are giving it all.

@KC Oracle the adulation you speak of is not limited to this site... nfl.com called him a top 10 CB back in june, madden gave him a default rating of 91, and brandon marshall, just two weeks ago, called him a top 5 CB in the league. Brandon Marshalll actually lines up and competes against him, madden an nfl.com watch and review players performance relentlessly. Top quality CBs go up against top quality WRs, all CBs get beat once and awhile. If you did not think flowers was playing zone rewatch every other player, they are clearly running a zone, freeze the play at the moment the ball is released and ask yourself if flowers is cleared out of the area following a streak down the sideline who is covering that entire side of the field, where most of the broncos large runs came through. When you realize no one would be there, it makes it very obviously flowers zone.

I think the term "quiting" is the wrong term. Usually one of the first signs of quiting is players get dinged, not hospitalized, but bad enough they have to come out of the game. Quitters create a huge ruckus in the locker room. I do not see it here. It seem when bad things start to happen the players expect more to happen and become hesitant about their duties. Can happen, has happened to this Chiefs team. If we think the Chiefs are cheap, don't you know the players look around and see how bad the roster is? If we think/say Pioli cannot id talent or will not dip into free agency, the players see that and say WTF? I think this team believes they are not very good, that management is satisfied with throwing guys like Sabby on to the field, and (maybe) Haley is on life support. Oh, and how about "we will be great next year when the injured return"? Winners think like winners, and the Chief players think like they are not good enough and play like second best.

I don't see the difference between what Flowers did and what Randy Moss would often do when he'd stop playing and take plays off. It's a form of quitting. No one ever wants to think that's going on on their team. I think there were many many plays that Derrick Johnson used to slide by on... in years past... and I'd call that a form of quitting... packing it in... not caring... getting by... going through the motions. There are so many things people want to call it to take the focus off of what's actually going on. Quitting.

We have no depth at safety, belcher is slow, players miss tackles, our defense is not without flaws... but they are not quiters!

All righty then... if they're not quitters... then... can you think of another term for players who give less than their best sometimes? You're going to have a hard time doing that without at some point mentioning... abdicate, bow out, check out, cut out, desert, drop out, exit, forsake, hang it up, leave flat, leave hanging, pull out, push off, relinquish, run out on, surrender, take a walk, walk out on, and withdraw... Or you could just call it what it is... quitting. @Gjrchief

@laddiemorse how bout human

@laddiemorse I just worked a 16 hr day, we were very short handed, by the end of the day I wasn't giving the effort I gave my first hour, I was exhausted, physically and mentally, I made mistakes due to it, but I never quit... I am human. There are ups and downs, peaks and valley, this season has to wear down these players, as it has its fans.

I do believe you have an arguement about brandon quitting after the catch, but not before. Bump and run is not a choice for brandon, it is part of the play call. I believe he was supposed to play a zone on that side. The reciever should have been passed to. langford, as brandon needed to stay home in the event of a toss to the outside, or a qb scramble. Remember houston was blitzing, who did that leave to cover the side if tebow came out of the pocket? Had brandon played bump and run, which allows a reciever to get both hands on a db, and the call been an option to that side, it would be very easy for him to have been blocked out of the play. His job was to hold down his side, and langford got beat, or was out of position. I believe brandons quitting after the catch was an emotional response of frustration to poor safety play.

If you go back and watch the replay you'll see Flowers quitting before the catch. Also, about the bump and run... Flowers played bump and run a whole bunch against Vincent Jackson and Jackson is head and shoulders better than Decker. Many times Flowers lined up one yard off the line of scrimmage to alter Jackson's route from the beginning. If Flowers had done that to Decker... no touchdown, in all likelihood. @Gjrchief

@laddiemorse yes, vjax got bump and run all day because there is no threat of rivers running. Also flowers was asked to man up on vjax and a pass happy chargers team, against ole 2for8 flowers biggest responsibility was to stay home, and protect the outer edge. Besides, bump and run is not flowers choice, the play is called he does his job... if the play call does not involve bump and run coverage don't call flowers a quitter, call romeo a a bad play caller.

@Gjrchief Great analysis. Brandon was playing an off soft zone and shadowing to the outside. As Decker lined up closer to the slot, it was brandons responsibilty to cover the outside sideline with the safety over the top. As we had all other defenders in zone coverage, is assumed brandon is clearly not in man coverage and therefore his assignment doesn't cover the deep ball. As identified with the games development, he was cautious of the ran and or scramble so instead of bump and run, he gives room to manuever over the WR to make a play. As you can see, there is no urgency in him back pedaling as he knows he has help over the top and that he needs to break on a hook or out route. I'd also wager, that Decker had an option route and when he saw the safety break on the P-A he just ran right past him.

I have to disagree with your analysis. This defense, this team, is a lot of things, but quitters? I don't see it. You bring up the blowout loses, but ignore the comeback against Indy, who quit there? How about MNF against the Chargers? Half the stadium was heading for the exits, did our D quit? When the Chargers won the toss, it would have been easy for the D to quit, they had been on the field a lifetime, but they hold them to a three and out and we win. You show a play in a tied game, not a single player seemed to quit, players get beat, players are out of position, and some players are slow... does that equal quitting? I don't think so.

@Gjrchief I won't speak for Ladner, but I want to clarify my perspective. I realize "quitting" generates some pretty strong feelings in people. I like this team, I really do. We've got some great guys who keep after it. When I speak of "quitting," I'm thinking of Ladner's "It’s not so much that the players have consciously given up..." I don't think they are saying to themselves, screw it, I just want my paycheck and will look forward to having Berry back next year. I saw Bowe's drop as a "not giving his best effort" scenario, too. I don't think they're holding back. I do think that they're not always playing with the intensity with which I've seen them play at other times. A big part of sports is mental, and when things start to go wrong, it can be really hard to maintain the energy athletes need to win. Which is why I also give Haley huge props for this season; he hasn't quit on his team and he won't let them quit on the season. I do think, though, that the team has lacked the energy I know they have (e.g., the SD Halloween game) at times. This season, it has turned up more often when they are favored and at home.

To clarify... I said this was a subconscious act upon the part of some Chiefs players and even the ones that this happens to are not doing this all the time... it happens at certain moments. Clearly... the Chiefs have many players who don't give their best effort all the times. Even Todd Haley admits that. @Gjrchief

I would love to have a D that can win games on their own. We certainly lack some pieces for that, even if Berry was still in there, but a DT/Neil Smith et al or Urlacher-led Bears D would be great. We don't have that, and I think when the O stalls the way it does, our D does give up, again, maybe not consciously, but still. I imagine there could be some frustration: D holds, O comes out, plays crappy and within 5 mins D's back out again. This is another reason why I'm not upset about the Cassel injury. Maybe the team rallies around the adversity and they're able to pick up the energy. Maybe not, maybe we get crushed for the rest of the season, but what have we got to lose?

@sidibeke Its demoralizing to a defense when you get into trouble and then the play calls are a draw play on second and long. You begin to believe like the fans do that even the coaches dont have enough confidence in the offense and so send the defense back out there. It sucks. I can tell when the Chiefs are gonna lose. It's in there body language.

Hello my name is Tin Man (Tyson Jackson) and ahhhh, I'm a quitter. See I was drafted number three overall and well I was just happy to get the money. I couldn't believe it when they called my name that high and now I'm rich and I dont do anything really. I'm supposed to occupy blocks and even double teams but because I'm a quitter I cant do that one person can shove me a mile. Heck if your grandma lined up against me I wouldn't stop the run. The good news is Chief fans and the prideful Scott Pioli's out there still think the verdict is out on me and I do my job so get used to seeing me around for awhile even though I quit.

Ladner, interesting analysis. I agree I hate to see players quit, especially when there is still a chance of winning the game. So does quitters anonymous include players who are trying to quit quitting? Seems like a catch 22.

Good one. Made me laugh. Thanks! @Chief Hokie

Big Jim 234 pts

Wow! You certainly picked a polarizing topic Laddie. When I watched the play live I too, noticed that Flowers gave up on the play. I think he gave up on it at the point he knew he would not be able to catch him, but it did look bad. I have to agree Gjrchief that this was a blown coverage and part of the quit you saw in Flowers was frustration that the safety misplayed the play and in so doing made it look like Flowers was at fault. I had a bad feeling about this game all week long. On paper we should have blown them out, and to get beat by a bad option college run game was nothing short of embarressing. Sadly it will be a miracle if Haley survives at the end of the season. I think we will be hard pressed to win another game this season and since the post season is already gone I guess I am okay with that. Now is the time to find out what we have in players and get a strong evaluation for next season.

laddiemorse 205 pts

Big Jim Big Jim... yes, I choose this title to be exactly that... polarizing. Sometimes I think we get lackadaisical as fans when it comes to holding our teams feet to the fire. I can ID things... patterns... that could be called quitting when it comes to Scott Pioli too. Perhaps what we're seeing on the field is a reflection of what's going on in the clubhouse/front office. I can only think how frustrating it must be for many of the Chiefs core players to watch as the front office makes some of their strange decisions. I'm just hoping that the quitting hasn't become organizationally endemic.

Danny W 137 pts

Hello I'm Romeo Crennel and ahhhh...... I'm a quitter. I knew Denver was going to run the ball and the option to boot and well I obviously failed to plan for it. I have games were I look like a brilliant genous and others like I'm brain dead. They continued to pound the rock and I didn't adjust at all. I wanted the offense to help out a bit and they couldn't so I quit. I quit using my head. HOnestly its time I got a little more blame around this place but I dont so I'll stick around.

KC Oracle 68 pts

I also noticed that Flower was signaling something prior to the snap (shown in the first still photo), with his right hand up in the air. I don't know if it had any effect on the play, bue it looked like he might have been confused or asking for help/informatoin and it certianly showed he was not focused on the receiver at that point in time (although DB's look casual before many plays).

KC Oracle 68 pts

Tough analysis. Quitter is too perjorative a word to use, but you came up with a couple of very good examples of players putting up less than full effort. So you have some evidence, compared to the subjective assessments of many.

I never understand the adulation of Flowers around here. You said he played brilliantly against SD and maybe he had those moments, but he also was beat late in a big play. He looked awful on the Tebow TD pass, and it did not look like he was in a zone or expecting to turn Decker over to the safety.

laddiemorse 205 pts

I'm concerned that this can become an epidemic but, in some ways I think it already has become that. Paddy pointed out that Houston has progressed but, I don't think very many Chiefs are giving it all.

Gjrchief 138 pts

kc Oracle the adulation you speak of is not limited to this site... nfl.com called him a top 10 CB back in june, madden gave him a default rating of 91, and brandon marshall, just two weeks ago, called him a top 5 CB in the league. Brandon Marshalll actually lines up and competes against him, madden an nfl.com watch and review players performance relentlessly. Top quality CBs go up against top quality WRs, all CBs get beat once and awhile. If you did not think flowers was playing zone rewatch every other player, they are clearly running a zone, freeze the play at the moment the ball is released and ask yourself if flowers is cleared out of the area following a streak down the sideline who is covering that entire side of the field, where most of the broncos large runs came through. When you realize no one would be there, it makes it very obviously flowers zone.

tm1946 183 pts

I think the term "quiting" is the wrong term. Usually one of the first signs of quiting is players get dinged, not hospitalized, but bad enough they have to come out of the game. Quitters create a huge ruckus in the locker room. I do not see it here. It seem when bad things start to happen the players expect more to happen and become hesitant about their duties. Can happen, has happened to this Chiefs team. If we think the Chiefs are cheap, don't you know the players look around and see how bad the roster is? If we think/say Pioli cannot id talent or will not dip into free agency, the players see that and say WTF?

I think this team believes they are not very good, that management is satisfied with throwing guys like Sabby on to the field, and (maybe) Haley is on life support. Oh, and how about "we will be great next year when the injured return"? Winners think like winners, and the Chief players think like they are not good enough and play like second best.

laddiemorse 205 pts

I don't see the difference between what Flowers did and what Randy Moss would often do when he'd stop playing and take plays off. It's a form of quitting. No one ever wants to think that's going on on their team. I think there were many many plays that Derrick Johnson used to slide by on... in years past... and I'd call that a form of quitting... packing it in... not caring... getting by... going through the motions. There are so many things people want to call it to take the focus off of what's actually going on. Quitting.

Gjrchief 138 pts

We have no depth at safety, belcher is slow, players miss tackles, our defense is not without flaws... but they are not quiters!

laddiemorse 205 pts

All righty then... if they're not quitters... then... can you think of another term for players who give less than their best sometimes? You're going to have a hard time doing that without at some point mentioning... abdicate, bow out, check out, cut out, desert, drop out, exit, forsake, hang it up, leave flat, leave hanging, pull out, push off, relinquish, run out on, surrender, take a walk, walk out on, and withdraw...

Or you could just call it what it is... quitting. Gjrchief

Gjrchief 138 pts

laddiemorse I just worked a 16 hr day, we were very short handed, by the end of the day I wasn't giving the effort I gave my first hour, I was exhausted, physically and mentally, I made mistakes due to it, but I never quit... I am human. There are ups and downs, peaks and valley, this season has to wear down these players, as it has its fans.

Gjrchief 138 pts

I do believe you have an arguement about brandon quitting after the catch, but not before. Bump and run is not a choice for brandon, it is part of the play call. I believe he was supposed to play a zone on that side. The reciever should have been passed to. langford, as brandon needed to stay home in the event of a toss to the outside, or a qb scramble. Remember houston was blitzing, who did that leave to cover the side if tebow came out of the pocket? Had brandon played bump and run, which allows a reciever to get both hands on a db, and the call been an option to that side, it would be very easy for him to have been blocked out of the play. His job was to hold down his side, and langford got beat, or was out of position. I believe brandons quitting after the catch was an emotional response of frustration to poor safety play.

laddiemorse 205 pts

If you go back and watch the replay you'll see Flowers quitting before the catch. Also, about the bump and run... Flowers played bump and run a whole bunch against Vincent Jackson and Jackson is head and shoulders better than Decker. Many times Flowers lined up one yard off the line of scrimmage to alter Jackson's route from the beginning. If Flowers had done that to Decker... no touchdown, in all likelihood. Gjrchief

Gjrchief 138 pts

laddiemorse yes, vjax got bump and run all day because there is no threat of rivers running. Also flowers was asked to man up on vjax and a pass happy chargers team, against ole 2for8 flowers biggest responsibility was to stay home, and protect the outer edge. Besides, bump and run is not flowers choice, the play is called he does his job... if the play call does not involve bump and run coverage don't call flowers a quitter, call romeo a a bad play caller.

tcud87 12 pts

Gjrchief Great analysis. Brandon was playing an off soft zone and shadowing to the outside. As Decker lined up closer to the slot, it was brandons responsibilty to cover the outside sideline with the safety over the top. As we had all other defenders in zone coverage, is assumed brandon is clearly not in man coverage and therefore his assignment doesn't cover the deep ball. As identified with the games development, he was cautious of the ran and or scramble so instead of bump and run, he gives room to manuever over the WR to make a play. As you can see, there is no urgency in him back pedaling as he knows he has help over the top and that he needs to break on a hook or out route. I'd also wager, that Decker had an option route and when he saw the safety break on the P-A he just ran right past him.

Gjrchief 138 pts

I have to disagree with your analysis. This defense, this team, is a lot of things, but quitters? I don't see it. You bring up the blowout loses, but ignore the comeback against Indy, who quit there? How about MNF against the Chargers? Half the stadium was heading for the exits, did our D quit? When the Chargers won the toss, it would have been easy for the D to quit, they had been on the field a lifetime, but they hold them to a three and out and we win. You show a play in a tied game, not a single player seemed to quit, players get beat, players are out of position, and some players are slow... does that equal quitting? I don't think so.

sidibeke 259 pts

Gjrchief I won't speak for Ladner, but I want to clarify my perspective. I realize "quitting" generates some pretty strong feelings in people. I like this team, I really do. We've got some great guys who keep after it. When I speak of "quitting," I'm thinking of Ladner's "It’s not so much that the players have consciously given up..." I don't think they are saying to themselves, screw it, I just want my paycheck and will look forward to having Berry back next year. I saw Bowe's drop as a "not giving his best effort" scenario, too.

I don't think they're holding back. I do think that they're not always playing with the intensity with which I've seen them play at other times. A big part of sports is mental, and when things start to go wrong, it can be really hard to maintain the energy athletes need to win. Which is why I also give Haley huge props for this season; he hasn't quit on his team and he won't let them quit on the season. I do think, though, that the team has lacked the energy I know they have (e.g., the SD Halloween game) at times. This season, it has turned up more often when they are favored and at home.

laddiemorse 205 pts

To clarify... I said this was a subconscious act upon the part of some Chiefs players and even the ones that this happens to are not doing this all the time... it happens at certain moments. Clearly... the Chiefs have many players who don't give their best effort all the times. Even Todd Haley admits that. Gjrchief

sidibeke 259 pts

I would love to have a D that can win games on their own. We certainly lack some pieces for that, even if Berry was still in there, but a DT/Neil Smith et al or Urlacher-led Bears D would be great. We don't have that, and I think when the O stalls the way it does, our D does give up, again, maybe not consciously, but still. I imagine there could be some frustration: D holds, O comes out, plays crappy and within 5 mins D's back out again.

This is another reason why I'm not upset about the Cassel injury. Maybe the team rallies around the adversity and they're able to pick up the energy. Maybe not, maybe we get crushed for the rest of the season, but what have we got to lose?

Danny W 137 pts

sidibeke Its demoralizing to a defense when you get into trouble and then the play calls are a draw play on second and long. You begin to believe like the fans do that even the coaches dont have enough confidence in the offense and so send the defense back out there. It sucks. I can tell when the Chiefs are gonna lose. It's in there body language.

Danny W 137 pts

Hello my name is Tin Man (Tyson Jackson) and ahhhh, I'm a quitter. See I was drafted number three overall and well I was just happy to get the money. I couldn't believe it when they called my name that high and now I'm rich and I dont do anything really. I'm supposed to occupy blocks and even double teams but because I'm a quitter I cant do that one person can shove me a mile. Heck if your grandma lined up against me I wouldn't stop the run. The good news is Chief fans and the prideful Scott Pioli's out there still think the verdict is out on me and I do my job so get used to seeing me around for awhile even though I quit.

Chief Hokie 87 pts

Ladner, interesting analysis. I agree I hate to see players quit, especially when there is still a chance of winning the game. So does quitters anonymous include players who are trying to quit quitting? Seems like a catch 22.

laddiemorse 205 pts

Good one. Made me laugh. Thanks! Chief Hokie