Gut Check Time

by Armchair Addict

Let’s cut to the chase. It is a REALLY hard time to be a Chiefs fan. Now I won’t blame anyone for being upset with the Chiefs. We lost yesterday 48-3. We’ve lost the first two games this season by a combined score of 89-10. To make matters worse, the two teams we lost to were a combined 10-22 last season. In other words, the Bills and Lions COMBINED won as many games as KC did last season. No, no, no my friends, I’m not done venting yet. If you go back to the final game of the regular season last year the Chiefs have been outscored 150-27. That’s an average score of 37.5 to 6.75. A point differential of about 31 points per game. Am I done? NOPE!!! I read earlier that in those same four games Matt Cassel is a combined 67-109 for 437 yards, 4.01 yards per attempt, 1 TD to 9 INTs, and a 38.6 QB rating.

Oh please, for the sake of all that’s right in this world, let that be all.

(Heavy sigh) Sorry, one more itty bitty tid bit. Some guy named Jamaal Charles is joining Eric Berry, Tony Moeaki, and Brandon Siler on IR. I’m told this Charles guy had something like 1,900 total yards last season (whimper).

Now, I’m sure some of you are ready to stop reading this post now. You don’t need to feel any worse then you already do. I get it. I’m there with you. The rest of this post will not be a pity party. I just wanted to make sure that nobody could accuse me of sugar coating anything.

After the break, it’s gut check time and I’m putting Todd Haley, the players, AND the fans on notice.

I should probably clarify that the reason I’m not calling out Hunt and Pioli in this post is because I don’t think they can save THIS season for us. If we are going to walk away from the 2011 season with our pride still intact, it will be because of the coaches, players and fans. I’ll leave the Pioli and Hunt talk to others around here.

Gut Check Number 1: Todd Haley

First off, let me say that I do believe Todd Haley is coaching for his job, but I don’t see ANY way he is fired during the season. I understand it has been horrible, but Romeo Crennel is really the only candidate to take over mid-season and right now he has his hands full fixing the defense. Think about it, we have given up 89 points in two games and you want the DC to have LESS time to game plan? Haley will be the coach for the rest of the season, and I really don’t think its debatable. Obviously, if he doesn’t improve things this will be his last year. Now on to his gut check.

I don’t know what in the wild, wild, world of sports is going on with this team, but they better get it figured out, and fast. When Haley took this team over, they were a mess. I think we would all agree that the talent level is better now than it was that first season when he took over. The problem is that team only lost its first two games by a combined score of 51-34. So they’ve scored 24 points less then that first year team and given up 38 more. That team didn’t have Tony Moeaki or Eric Berry on it and Jamaal Charles wasn’t a key player yet. That team didn’t have Charlie Weis as the OC either. Despite that we at least gave those teams a fight, something that can’t be said about the first two games this season.

So how were we more competitive then? Well we didn’t beat ourselves. In those two games in 2009 the Chiefs only had two total turnovers compared to a whopping nine so far this season. Keep in mind, we only had 14 turnovers total in the regular season last year.

So what’s different? Well in my opinion, it’s Haley. I mentioned this last week, but when he first took over as coach his attitude was: “We may not be the best team in the NFL, but we won’t beat ourselves.” If a player did something stupid or turned the ball over Haley was ALL OVER THEM. That doesn’t seem to be happening now. I know Haley got killed for his temper that first year and everybody praised him for calming down last year. However, I have always said that it wasn’t that Haley calmed down last season, it was that his team finally stopped doing the stuff that made him furious. However, I seem to be wrong. The Chiefs have gone back to making game killing mistakes at an unprecedented rate and yet “Angry Haley” is nowhere to be found.

The only thing I can figure is that Haley thought of that first year as “trial by fire” and whoever survived were then “his guys” and somehow graduated from his “tuff love boot camp.” Well, Todd Haley, it’s gut check time. Your team is now the exact opposite of what you said it would be when you took over. You have some talent (even with the injuries) but you make stupid mistakes that beat yourself. So what are you going to do about it? Are you going to worry about losing the locker room? Are you hoping that “better practices” or being “more prepared” are going to correct a 89-10 short fall? I hope not. I hope you draw a line in the sand and tell them the same thing you did in 2009. That if you are going to make bone-headed, game-killing mistakes, you won’t play. Not even if you’re Matt Cassel or Dexter McCluster. I mean I guess I can understand wanting to protect your QB from getting killed in the media, but I’ve got news for you, if this doesn’t get fixed and you get canned, Cassel’s job security follows you out the door. No new coach is going to be happy with a QB that has been playing like Cassel has. Your team’s performance has been so horrible these first two games that you went from a coach of the year candidate to on the hot seat in TWO GAMES. If you plan on keeping your job, you better fight like a mad man to turn the tide. Use more of your padded practices right now. Take over as OC. Bench people that aren’t cutting it. Make the players uncomfortable. You have to do something different. I don’t care if critics say you’re panicking. JUST DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!

Gut Check Number 2: The Players

You can take Clark Hunt, Scott Pioli and the entire coaching staff to task (and with some valid reasons to do so). However, the bottom line is the players have to man up and play. I mean say what you want about the coaching job, but we’ve seen defenses coached by Greg Robinson and Clancy Pendergast not look this bad over a two-game stretch. Is anyone really going to argue that they were out-coaching Romeo Crennel? I don’t think so. At some point the players just have to make a play. The players have failed as much (if not more) as anyone. You want my list of players that I’ve been happy with so far this season (it won’t take long to go over)?

Here it is.

Branden Albert (playing better then ever)
Le’Ron McClain (has looked good when we use him)
Leonard Pope (nothing special, but has filled in pretty well for Moeaki)
Tamba Hali (still our only real consistent pass rush)
Amon Gordon (signed off the street and (sadly) may just turn out to be our best run defender)

That’s five of 53 that I can say have played pretty well through 2 games. That means 48 players have either been a let down or have been too inconsistent thus far. 89-10 shows a lack of heart and basic football skills. The players need to man up and decide if they have the pride to put a stop to this. I don’t care who the coach is or what plays are being called, go out there and do your job. Make a play. Win your battle. Beat your man. Otherwise get off my team.

I feel like I should take a second to address the most important player on this team going forward: Matt Cassel. One of my first posts here at AA was called All Aboard the Matt Cassel Bandwagon. I meant every word of it. I believed (and still do) that he was our best hope of reaching a Super Bowl sooner rather than later. No free agent we sign off the street is going to be significantly better than Cassel and a rookie is going to take a few seasons to “get his legs” in the NFL. My hope was that by 2012 we would be ready to compete with the “big dogs” for a Super Bowl. That only happens if Matt Cassel fixes whatever is wrong right now and keeps his job. So just remember, if you hope for Cassel to fail so that we can look elsewhere, you are hoping to set the Chiefs franchise back even further.

The problem is that Cassel has been HORRIBLE of late. I’ve defended him a LOT over the years, but those numbers I gave at the beginning can not be defended. Again, I don’t understand why he looks worse then when he first got here. Don’t even go there with Charlie Weis either. Cassel looks worse than he did in 2009 when Haley fired the OC right before the start of the season and was a first year head coach/OC/QB coach all in one. How can that be?

Of all the players on the roster that need a gut check, Matt Cassel has the most to lose if things don’t get better and had better man up. Like I said before, if Haley gets fired (soon or the end of the season) Cassel’s days as the starter will be short-lived.

Gut Check Number 3: The Fans

This one is going to rub some people the wrong way. Let me be very, very clear. I am not saying you should be anything but upset with what we have seen so far. Obviously, from what I have written so far, I’m not happy. You have every right to question Hunt, Pioli, Haley, Cassel, etc. You have a right to not give the Chiefs your money via tickets, parking, concessions, merchandise, etc. That having been said, if this year is going to be as brutal as it looks like it could, we fans are going to need a gut check as well.

People are already starting to lose their minds. I jokingly put a comment in last weeks post about how if we kept playing like that we might have a shot at Andrew Luck. However, at the time I honestly thought there was no way that would ever happen. We didn’t know about Berry at that point and that loss paired with this one and the loss of Jamaal Charles now makes it seem like much more of a reality. Now, I admit that the possibility of a true franchise QB would make a miserable season at least have some kind of a silver lining. However, this “Suck for Luck” campaign is not something that a true KC Chiefs fan should get behind. If you would actively root for your team to lose even one game, let alone 14, you are not a true fan. That’s right I said it. My brain can understand the idea that we might be better off in the long term if that happened, but my heart could NEVER allow me to turn on a Chiefs game and hope for them to lose. Seriously, is anyone really going to admit that they could turn on the TV and cheer for the Raiders to beat the Chiefs? That’s the most sickening thing I can imagine as a life-long KC fan. I don’t care if it comes down to week 17 and both the Chiefs and the Broncos are 1-14 and the loser gets Andrew Luck. I STILL couldn’t cheer for the Broncos to win that game. Maybe that makes me an idiot. I’m sure there will be some of you that think so. I just don’t see how you could devote as much time to following a team as many of us do and hope that they lose week in and week out.

This could be an awful season. We could also fight our way out of it and end the year on a positive note even if we don’t make the playoffs. There is still enough talent on this roster to make some noise. That is what KC fans should be hoping for. Big Matt made a great point on the AA podcast when he said there are still a lot of reasons to tune in and watch this Chiefs team. How they respond to this situation, what players step up, what young players develop into key players, etc. That is what we should focus on going forward. Clearly with the losses of Moeaki, Berry, and Charles have made a repeat as division champs unlikely. If that means you don’t want to cheer for this team anymore, then do us all a favor and check back in this spring for our draft coverage.

Again, I’m not saying you can’t be upset or question decisions about this team. I’m just saying take a little pride in your “fanhood.”

Gut Checks All Around.

As always, thanks for reading and GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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@JamieTurnbull CUT ME A BREAK! If YOU don't produce results at your job, do you get fired? Absolutely! What better motivator than that! The message it sends? We paid you very well to produce results. If you don't, we will show you the door. If I make stupid mistake after stupid mistake and lose a million dollar project, my employer will certainly fire me...or at least I would expect to be fired. Cassel has had enough time to "find himself". Now, I think it is time to move on from the Cassel chapter and start a new one. He has had AMPLE opportunity to prove himself. At this point, he is not even worth his salt. Who knows, Stanzi might just have what it takes to succeed in the NFL, but if he doesn't play...we will never know. Then, maybe we really dont need Luck. I've been a Chiefs fan for about 40 years and this sequence of events the last 7 weeks really hurts. GIVE ME A REASON TO BELIEVE!!!!!!!! I have NOT been given one to this point of the season. 9 games?!?! Pfffft! NO WAY! Dont get me wrong, Im not a pessimist...IM A REALIST!

@KC MikeG You cannot fire 53 players, might like to but does not happen. If Pioli had even attempted to do his job to build a team, Haley may have been ok. Right now he is a lost 8 year old bully looking for help from Muir. Cassel might have been an ok QB, but Pioli gave him nothing around him, you want to be the only guy out there with 4-5 300lbers trying to kill you? Nothing happens in a vaccum, why is Pioli so bad, look to Hunt, whay is Haley and Cassel so bad look to Pioli. Why are the Chiefs so bad, they are built that way?

I would add one more gut check and that would be the Defense. As bad as the team is playing the Defense has only lost one starter and regular time backup they should be playing better.

"What in the Wide Wide World of sports?". Great Slim Pickens line from my favorite movie, Blazing Saddles.

@LyleGraversen You are one of the few (even among the writers here) that are still hanging on to this turd and I can not see why. And I could care less about your respect or opinion about how I am a fan. I did not say I am pulling for losses for Luck. I said I am pulling for losses so people like you are not suckered into wanting another year of Haley and Cassel. I will not cheer for those two no matter what you write. You do not realize it but you are advocating years and years of mediocrity. Have you even watched the SuperBowls of late? The playoffs even? Very seldom do you see a not so great quarterback deep in the playoffs. So much has changed over the years, quarterbacks are THE reason a team wins anymore. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers are synonmysis with success and 3/4 of those Super Bowl success. Is it possible to get to the Super Bowl with a "decent" quarterback...maybe. Has it proven likely these last ten years..not often Eli Manning is about the only turd with a ring I can recall off the top of my head. The reasons for a QB driven league are unfortunate but it is what it is. You simply have a differing opinion it does not mean you are right.

Right there with you Lyle on all of your gut checks! Thanks for bringing the "Change" to light. In fact I posted this yesterday on Paddy's humiliation post "I know Haley has made mistakes, some of which were real head scratchers, but I believe the players bear just as much responsiblity for playing the game, performing their role. It's not like Haley went to camp and during the practices since season started said of don't worry about the basics. He was a hard ass disciplinarian that coached this same bunch of guys from 2-14 to 10-6. I think something has changed. Haley has pulled back, nicer and less in your face. Think about it - NO ONE is in the dog house after teh bills beating? That's not his style at all. Now it's all his fault. Don't get me wrong I like him stepping up but no hammers fall during the week and we get a worse beating. Something is so wrong." So WTF? Anyone have thoughts on this point

@agent187@lkozark Amen! Also there is no guarantee that 1) Luck makes it as a pro as there is a long list of college super stars who didn't make it in the NFL 2) that Luck would be taken #1 depending on the teams need/FA's becoming available, 3) there are at least 3 other QB's coming out next year that would do just fine 4) we don't know what we have in Stanzi yet - but I believe we should consider finding out asap. 5) where does it say you have to be 0-16 to get the 1st pick Duh! Cheer for the CHIEFS!

@BillyB Couldn't have said it better! That's what being a FAN is all about. Way to go BillB!

@chiefswatch I will admit that Cassel will never be a super star QB, so if that is the only thing you'll except then I guess that's the end of it. I saw a QB in the middle of last season that can get the job done with a good team around him. I feel like with a little better line and more WR options we could have given the Ravens a run for their money in that playoff game. However, he's been dreadful lately and if that doesn't change drastically then you're right he should go. As for hoping the team loses, I just can't respect that. So you're going to be mad if the Chiefs win next week? That's just wrong. Period. You can't possibly know how bad you'd have to be to get that pick so you'd have to hope they lose EVERY GAME. Then there is literally no promise that Luck or anyone else will get us that Super Bowl. People are starting to call for Bill Cower, but it took him like 15 years to win one with Pitt. There is no promise that he'd get us there any faster then Haley. Fans just get so upset and want to trash everything and latch on to the "sure fire fix" but its never that easy. Cheer for your team to do well and get better.

Lyle Thanks for Keeping the Faith! The word FAN is short for FANATIC. fa·nat·ic - noun - a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics OR SPORTS. If you have any PRIDE in the KC CHIEFS then act like it - be a FAN! If your kid is having difficulties in school do you just turn your back on them? If your company has hit hard times and your co-workers look to you do you just quit your job? If a loved one is struggling with an illness or an addiction do you just walk away? NO! You dig in and do everything you can to support them, you develop plans to change the course, you put forth effort that you didn't know you had in you to turn the tide...to start taking steps towards a better day...towards building stronger bonds and maybe even overcoming the problems before you. I can guarantee one thing for sure - if you give up and attack those closest to you, especially the ones who are struggling, you only make things worse! We are FANS of the KC CHIEFS and we LOVE them just like our families and our friends because we are a family.

@agent187@tm1946@TrappedInDonkeyland I can respect that 187.

@KC MikeG Records are made to be broken. I think I believe myself and sunday against SD I expect a good game. The third preseason game is always the best. I do not want to tank a season, get anyone fired (but would not hurt my feelings) or even see a superbowl bound team. No I want a competitive team, a prepared team, a team that cannot be overlooked by anybody, a team that is not the laughing stock of the NFL. Been there done that. If Pioli and Haley can get their rears out of their rears and win, I will be happy to live with them.

That's y I like reading your post because I tell everyone reasons to not give up on our boys but the same time I wonder if I'm crazy but I read what people like u write and its ok because I'm not the only one who believes in the team even though this year isn't going to be the greatest I don't see you counting our boys out till its 00:00 of week 17 and at that point its all about the next year. Because the only game I don't believe the chiefs can win are the ones they don't play @LyleGraversen

Dude you are wrong. The jury is not out on Cassel, it has been in for a while now. He is a dud. A complete disaster and giving him any more time is foolish. I dont know how long you want to let a quarterback develop but he is near 30 and still crap. You act like grooming a first round pick would be worse than sticking with Cassel? Who is Matthew Stafford? Second it is not anti-fan to wish losses upon the organization. I argue that I can be a bigger fan than you and wish we lose a ton of games this year. You saying it is so, does not make it so. I want Haley gone. I want Cassel gone. I do not want to waste any more seasons finding out what we already know and that is both of these people suck and will never win us a championship. It is likely neither are fired if we go 8-8. So for the betterment of our future yes I do want us to lose.

@LyleGraversen@tm1946@TrappedInDonkeyland my wife and I are die hard fans born and raised here in KC with ink on our arms to prove it, never root for another team EVER, but I be damned if I go spend $30 for parking, full price for preseason games, and outrageous regular season prices to see our team with no depth and refuse to spend cap money. Highest cap space in the league, thats ridiculous, and thats why were pretty horrible after our starters. U gotta spend money to make money i thought. not here because of fans like ours, die hards who will continue to fatten the pockets of our owners and gm's with Sabby Piscawho gives a damn as our safety instead of merriweather. I root from the comforts of my couch looking at my 52 inch 3d tv.

In case you were wondering, a quick check of NFL media guides reveals the Chiefs' losing their first two games by 79 points ranks as the FOURTH worst start in NFL history. The 1961 Oakland Raiders (pre-Al Davis) lost their first two games by a 99-0 margin, losing at 55-0 at Houston and 44-0 at San Diego. The 1973 New Orleans Saints of Aint's and fans wearing paper sacks fame, lost the first two games by 92 points, losing 62-7 to Atlanta and 40-3 at Dallas. And the 1978 Baltimore Colts lost the first two games by 80 points, 38-0 at Dallas and 42-0 to Miami. How did those teams fare in week three? The Raiders lost at home to the Dallas Texans 42-35 before beating Denver 33-19, one of two wins in a 2-12 season. The Saints also fell to 0-3, losing 14-10 at Baltimore before finishing with a 5-9 record. But the Colts won at New England 34-27 and went on to a 5-11 season.

@lkozark thats the point bro, if history is an indication of anything pioli wont pick andrew luck. Oh, and NEVER root for the enemy, regardless of the circumstances.

I'm wondering where the vintage '09 'angry Haley' went too, that's the guy this team needs right now. Current Haley isn't cutting it, get angry damnit. And as far as the 'suck for Luck' thing goes, i wasn't behind it until Jamaal went down. Obviously i'd rather think we were good enough to not score Luck, but i just don't see it at this point, though that doesn't mean i'll actually be rooting for us to lose. My logic is basically this: Tony G and Thiggy kept us from getting the top pick after '08, and Charles kept us from getting the top pick after '09. At this point, the guys who could keep us from the top pick, Berry and Charles, are gone for the season and our qb is awful. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, but imagining Luck in red and gold looks pretty damn good right now, especially compared to what's actually out there.

@JustinRGroth Glad to hear it. Sometimes when you write these things you wonder if you're alone on an island. Hearing that there are fans out there that feel the same way and get encouragement in seeing it writing makes it worth it.

@BillyB Billy that was perfectly said. Kudos!

@tm1946@TrappedInDonkeyland So you shouldn't cheer for them until they're Super Bowl ready? We should just flush our home field advantage down the toilet until they deserve it? Look, I went to the Bills game. I got tickets from a season ticket holder who couldn't go so the Chiefs didn't get any extra money from me for tickets. I did pay the $27 for parking, but didn't spend a dime at the stadium. I basically did everything I could to give them as little money as possible while still getting to see a game. That having been said, I cheered like a crazy person for the team I love while I was in the stands. I support the "team" over the owner, GM, coaches, or even players. It may sound crazy to some who can't separate the two, but the Chiefs are a lot bigger then Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli.

The players will all eventually move on, the coaches too. The "team" is about our community...the fans. My principles tell me to never give up on that. There will always be those that are willing to turn their backs and to them I say "you are weak". I'll root for our team every game. Cuss and spit when they suck but always root for them to be better next week. I know I'm not alone in that. I've got the real team, my fellow die hards, right there along with me. Expectationa are great but when you don't reach your goal you don't pack up and go home... you look toward next week and sharing what ever happens with those who bleed Chiefs red.

Lyle my friend thank you Idk how u do it but I'm always down when I read ur posts and I leave thinking maybe possibly this could work u play on my already overly optimistic self and make me believe that the chiefs still are good I love these guys and I just don't no y they are sucking but we are talented and Dang it any given Sunday

@TrappedInDonkeyland Also If you do not laugh, you cry.

@TrappedInDonkeyland Not really about being bleak or cutting slack. It is about expectations. Every fan like Joe, ( a great fan) but they supports an organization that does not deserve it. They are just emotionally support, sometime financially, a group to have tainted the concept of what pro football is supposed to be about. Winning the super bowl, being the best in the road or how about entertaining?. Seems to me the Chiefs are nothing to do with that. We all have things we liked about the KC Chiefs but no where do you see the words "world's best", "world's most hated", or "superbowl Champs". That is a bad thing.

@tm1946 oh TM, not everyone's world is as bleak as yours.. Cut em some slack. Love the article Lyle, you put into words exactly how I feel.

@tm1946 Yeah let's insult the guy who takes a little pride in his team. No where in his post did he say that would lead to us suddenly being good. He's just cheering for the team he loves. I'll take his pride in our team over someone who will hope that the team fails because they don't like the coach, QB, or they want to draft Luck.

@JosephRyanLuebbert Just want to ,make sure I get this correct. An 8 billion dollar field of entertainment, the only team in KC, "53 rightguys", an owner worth almost one billion himself, a GM the hotest thing around, a HC with a superbowl ring and so many feel is an outstanding offensive mind and really know how to handle WR, and players, oh what players, a QB who every fan hates, a WR, one of the best but sometimes loses his attention span, no running back but we got midgets. and a defense that can give up 40 points like they are at a Kmart blue light sale. And all we got to do is "rise up and lift this team". Why didn't someone think of this sooner. We could have been in superbowls all thru the '80s and '90s, if only we new to "rise up". Any way to fix the economy, could we "rise up" and help our President???

Amen! Never give up on the chiefs! We as chiefs fan need to cheer loud and proud! Make the players see that they need to step up for us! Rise up chief nation! LifT this team up!

If it comes down to the end of the season and the loser of the game gets Luck(y), then I root for the Chiefs to lose and therfore I am rooting for the Future of the Chiefs. Even as much as I hate the donkies, the future would look a lot brighter, assuming Pioli or whomever made the right choice.

Good point...we CANT give up after just 2 games! would firing Haley make things better? no! what message would that send to the team? suck and we fire you..we don't believe in you we just fire you.......wow no and of course Cassel is going to struggle he has a new guy in his ear....he has to find himself and lead HIS team! we are stuck with Cassel sorry Andrew Luck wont be coming to Kc! losing Charles SUCKS!!! but we will have players step up!!! im still pulling for Chiefs drafting Trent Richardson and losing Charles really backs that up..but to some all this up instead of Chiefs Will...it should be Chiefs Believe!! but first we have to BELIEVE!!! i still believe they can win 9 games! yea i said it! we just gotta BELIEVE!!!!

I just want a freaking identity, preferably a good or great one! But the last 4 years we sucked all but one of them, then we were borderline great the one year we didn't suck, now this?? Who what where when how and why? Don't get me wrong I back my chiefs 100%, I know that they are better than this, but I hate doubting myself, and I hate when the games prove my doubting to be true. Yesterday i shut the TV off atleast 5 times, only to come back to the game, in what seemed like 5 minutes the score had gotten worse?? I just want to know how the hell that happens to a team that just posted a 10 and 6 record, blowouts last year or not, we still have tallent, where did that go? We have enough talent even with injuries to post more than 10 freaking points! We have enough tallent to not allow 89 points? But we it still happened, fan for life here, though if this keeps up I might save myself a migrane or 14 and just read about the chiefs on monday instead of ruining my sunday! This all makes me wonder who that scout was that posted that horrible review of the chiefs that said Haley knows they suck and he will be coaching for his job this year, that guy sounds like a genious!

ArrowFan 205 pts

I would add one more gut check and that would be the Defense. As bad as the team is playing the Defense has only lost one starter and regular time backup they should be playing better.

dongtogolo 42 pts

"What in the Wide Wide World of sports?". Great Slim Pickens line from my favorite movie, Blazing Saddles.

KC MikeG 319 pts

Right there with you Lyle on all of your gut checks! Thanks for bringing the "Change" to light. In fact I posted this yesterday on Paddy's humiliation post "I know Haley has made mistakes, some of which were real head scratchers, but I believe the players bear just as much responsiblity for playing the game, performing their role. It's not like Haley went to camp and during the practices since season started said of don't worry about the basics. He was a hard ass disciplinarian that coached this same bunch of guys from 2-14 to 10-6. I think something has changed. Haley has pulled back, nicer and less in your face. Think about it - NO ONE is in the dog house after teh bills beating? That's not his style at all. Now it's all his fault. Don't get me wrong I like him stepping up but no hammers fall during the week and we get a worse beating. Something is so wrong." So WTF? Anyone have thoughts on this point

tm1946 183 pts

KC MikeG You cannot fire 53 players, might like to but does not happen.

If Pioli had even attempted to do his job to build a team, Haley may have been ok. Right now he is a lost 8 year old bully looking for help from Muir. Cassel might have been an ok QB, but Pioli gave him nothing around him, you want to be the only guy out there with 4-5 300lbers trying to kill you? Nothing happens in a vaccum, why is Pioli so bad, look to Hunt, whay is Haley and Cassel so bad look to Pioli. Why are the Chiefs so bad, they are built that way?

KC MikeG 319 pts

Lyle Thanks for Keeping the Faith! The word FAN is short for FANATIC. fa·nat·ic - noun - a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics OR SPORTS. If you have any PRIDE in the KC CHIEFS then act like it - be a FAN! If your kid is having difficulties in school do you just turn your back on them? If your company has hit hard times and your co-workers look to you do you just quit your job? If a loved one is struggling with an illness or an addiction do you just walk away? NO! You dig in and do everything you can to support them, you develop plans to change the course, you put forth effort that you didn't know you had in you to turn the tide...to start taking steps towards a better day...towards building stronger bonds and maybe even overcoming the problems before you. I can guarantee one thing for sure - if you give up and attack those closest to you, especially the ones who are struggling, you only make things worse! We are FANS of the KC CHIEFS and we LOVE them just like our families and our friends because we are a family.

chiefswatch 81 pts

Dude you are wrong. The jury is not out on Cassel, it has been in for a while now. He is a dud. A complete disaster and giving him any more time is foolish. I dont know how long you want to let a quarterback develop but he is near 30 and still crap. You act like grooming a first round pick would be worse than sticking with Cassel? Who is Matthew Stafford? Second it is not anti-fan to wish losses upon the organization. I argue that I can be a bigger fan than you and wish we lose a ton of games this year. You saying it is so, does not make it so. I want Haley gone. I want Cassel gone. I do not want to waste any more seasons finding out what we already know and that is both of these people suck and will never win us a championship. It is likely neither are fired if we go 8-8. So for the betterment of our future yes I do want us to lose.

LyleGraversen 312 pts

chiefswatch I will admit that Cassel will never be a super star QB, so if that is the only thing you'll except then I guess that's the end of it. I saw a QB in the middle of last season that can get the job done with a good team around him. I feel like with a little better line and more WR options we could have given the Ravens a run for their money in that playoff game. However, he's been dreadful lately and if that doesn't change drastically then you're right he should go.

As for hoping the team loses, I just can't respect that. So you're going to be mad if the Chiefs win next week? That's just wrong. Period. You can't possibly know how bad you'd have to be to get that pick so you'd have to hope they lose EVERY GAME. Then there is literally no promise that Luck or anyone else will get us that Super Bowl. People are starting to call for Bill Cower, but it took him like 15 years to win one with Pitt. There is no promise that he'd get us there any faster then Haley.

Fans just get so upset and want to trash everything and latch on to the "sure fire fix" but its never that easy. Cheer for your team to do well and get better.

chiefswatch 81 pts

LyleGraversen You are one of the few (even among the writers here) that are still hanging on to this turd and I can not see why. And I could care less about your respect or opinion about how I am a fan. I did not say I am pulling for losses for Luck. I said I am pulling for losses so people like you are not suckered into wanting another year of Haley and Cassel. I will not cheer for those two no matter what you write. You do not realize it but you are advocating years and years of mediocrity. Have you even watched the SuperBowls of late? The playoffs even? Very seldom do you see a not so great quarterback deep in the playoffs. So much has changed over the years, quarterbacks are THE reason a team wins anymore. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers are synonmysis with success and 3/4 of those Super Bowl success. Is it possible to get to the Super Bowl with a "decent" quarterback...maybe. Has it proven likely these last ten years..not often Eli Manning is about the only turd with a ring I can recall off the top of my head. The reasons for a QB driven league are unfortunate but it is what it is. You simply have a differing opinion it does not mean you are right.

KC MikeG 319 pts

In case you were wondering, a quick check of NFL media guides reveals the Chiefs' losing their first two games by 79 points ranks as the FOURTH worst start in NFL history.

The 1961 Oakland Raiders (pre-Al Davis) lost their first two games by a 99-0 margin, losing at 55-0 at Houston and 44-0 at San Diego.

The 1973 New Orleans Saints of Aint's and fans wearing paper sacks fame, lost the first two games by 92 points, losing 62-7 to Atlanta and 40-3 at Dallas.

And the 1978 Baltimore Colts lost the first two games by 80 points, 38-0 at Dallas and 42-0 to Miami.

How did those teams fare in week three?

The Raiders lost at home to the Dallas Texans 42-35 before beating Denver 33-19, one of two wins in a 2-12 season.

The Saints also fell to 0-3, losing 14-10 at Baltimore before finishing with a 5-9 record.

But the Colts won at New England 34-27 and went on to a 5-11 season.

tm1946 183 pts

KC MikeG Records are made to be broken. I think I believe myself and sunday against SD I expect a good game. The third preseason game is always the best. I do not want to tank a season, get anyone fired (but would not hurt my feelings) or even see a superbowl bound team. No I want a competitive team, a prepared team, a team that cannot be overlooked by anybody, a team that is not the laughing stock of the NFL. Been there done that. If Pioli and Haley can get their rears out of their rears and win, I will be happy to live with them.

LennyNightwolf 70 pts

I'm wondering where the vintage '09 'angry Haley' went too, that's the guy this team needs right now. Current Haley isn't cutting it, get angry damnit.

And as far as the 'suck for Luck' thing goes, i wasn't behind it until Jamaal went down. Obviously i'd rather think we were good enough to not score Luck, but i just don't see it at this point, though that doesn't mean i'll actually be rooting for us to lose. My logic is basically this: Tony G and Thiggy kept us from getting the top pick after '08, and Charles kept us from getting the top pick after '09. At this point, the guys who could keep us from the top pick, Berry and Charles, are gone for the season and our qb is awful. Maybe it happens, maybe it doesn't, but imagining Luck in red and gold looks pretty damn good right now, especially compared to what's actually out there.

JustinRGroth 28 pts

Lyle my friend thank you Idk how u do it but I'm always down when I read ur posts and I leave thinking maybe possibly this could work u play on my already overly optimistic self and make me believe that the chiefs still are good I love these guys and I just don't no y they are sucking but we are talented and Dang it any given Sunday

LyleGraversen 312 pts

JustinRGroth Glad to hear it. Sometimes when you write these things you wonder if you're alone on an island. Hearing that there are fans out there that feel the same way and get encouragement in seeing it writing makes it worth it.

JustinRGroth 28 pts

That's y I like reading your post because I tell everyone reasons to not give up on our boys but the same time I wonder if I'm crazy but I read what people like u write and its ok because I'm not the only one who believes in the team even though this year isn't going to be the greatest I don't see you counting our boys out till its 00:00 of week 17 and at that point its all about the next year. Because the only game I don't believe the chiefs can win are the ones they don't play LyleGraversen

JosephRyanLuebbert 8 pts

Amen! Never give up on the chiefs! We as chiefs fan need to cheer loud and proud! Make the players see that they need to step up for us! Rise up chief nation! LifT this team up!

tm1946 183 pts

JosephRyanLuebbert Just want to ,make sure I get this correct. An 8 billion dollar field of entertainment, the only team in KC, "53 rightguys", an owner worth almost one billion himself, a GM the hotest thing around, a HC with a superbowl ring and so many feel is an outstanding offensive mind and really know how to handle WR, and players, oh what players, a QB who every fan hates, a WR, one of the best but sometimes loses his attention span, no running back but we got midgets. and a defense that can give up 40 points like they are at a Kmart blue light sale.

And all we got to do is "rise up and lift this team". Why didn't someone think of this sooner. We could have been in superbowls all thru the '80s and '90s, if only we new to "rise up". Any way to fix the economy, could we "rise up" and help our President???

LyleGraversen 312 pts

tm1946 Yeah let's insult the guy who takes a little pride in his team. No where in his post did he say that would lead to us suddenly being good. He's just cheering for the team he loves. I'll take his pride in our team over someone who will hope that the team fails because they don't like the coach, QB, or they want to draft Luck.

TrappedInDonkeyland 243 pts

tm1946 oh TM, not everyone's world is as bleak as yours.. Cut em some slack.
Love the article Lyle, you put into words exactly how I feel.