Nose Tackle: The Least Important Position In The 3-4 Defense?

Big Matt that's the Stupidest thing I've heard. The NT position is a key position in the 3-4 defense. You can get by with stuffing a fat guy in the middle and tell him to hold his blockers or Pioli could have listens to me screaming at the TV Yelling Draft BJ Raji ! That year we were moving to the 3-4 and the difference between a good Defense and a great defense is a NT that can blast threw a double team and disrupt the backfield, like what BJ Raji does. It's also interesting how the Packers OLB are sack machines. That's strictly do to Raji blowin up the OL along with his two DE's letting the LB's run free. So yes you can have an average NT who tries his best to take on two blockers but for a great 3-4 D you have to have a top notch NT. I was extremely upset when Pioli drafted Ty Jackson instead of BJ Raji knowing we were switching to the 3-4 but that anger has only grown stronger as Raji has become the Ideal and arguably the best NT in the league while we've got Ty Jackson who looks like the ideal 3-4 DE but minus the heart and talent. My only hope is that kid finally turns it around and becomes a great DE because he's got the size and speed to do the job.

I'm just now getting to take a look at all these comments. Man, that sucks, because there are some great ones in here. I wish I'd been around to respond/discuss, but I've had a hell of a busy day. Quick hits: 1) Rogers! I'd forgotten we made him an offer. Combine that with bringing in Taylor for a workout and it appears Pioli is looking to upgrade. Still, the fact remains, its been three years. That's a long time to stick with Ron Edwards, right? 2) Raji. Sigh. That really would've been a match made in heaven. But hey, we got Tin Man. All good, right? 3) I think you all pretty much get what I'm saying, but just to be clear, I would like to have a good nose. It would definitely be really helpful. The stuff you guys were saying about what a nose can do and the effect he can have, I don't disagree with most of that. I'm just saying, if you have to take a hit somewhere.....you know what I mean. Really wish I had more time here, but I'm exhausted and I feel like its too late anyway. Great comments, fellas. Most of you disagreed, yet nobody got angry or weird. And you all provided rational reasoning in support of your arguments. Respect.

Good ole Matty Ice the 2nd, Yes good article. You give us Chiefs fans some good thoughts to think about. But as any good writer needs a devil's advocate, I choose to be yours. I just have a few thoughts. Although the NT may be a position you could pick on, I don't know if it's the best one to call "mediocre" or "least important." As you and I both agree, there isn't a position that is unimportant. But can there be one that is "least important?" I think so, but I would go with the weakside inside linebacker. In a 3-4, if you have a strong OLB crew and at best an above average inside LB, your other ILB can be above average at best. In this situation, you can still have a stellar defense, as long as you have good skill players at positions like: a mammoth yet quick-footed DT, OLB strongside, DE on QB blindside, a good pair of corners and at least one really good safety. Name a defense in the NFL that has been consistently great the past few years and I'll name you their elite DT that makes plays, i.e. Pittsburg, Green Bay, New England (struggled last year a bit but nonetheless has been consistently good), Baltimore, Chicago, Philley, NYJ, etc. The cellar defenses the past few years, i.e. Carolina, Buffalo, Arizona, Miami, etc., haven't had a strong presence at ILB. And maybe with the exception of Arizona, at DT either. What say you Matty Ice to the thought that DT is very important but nonetheless the 2nd least important position on a good defense? Second to only the weak ILB??

You give us two insightful themes to consider but very littel room to aurgue. 1) "The key to a good defense is good players, regardless of where they line up." Safety the best player, pick the safety. DE you don't need the best player, pick the DE. Hard to aurgue that this isn't the way Pioli thinks. 2) At what position does a little better or worse than average make the least difference? Again, who can aurgue that NT isn't a good place to live with average. My only complaint is that we all tend to give Sweet Ron to little credit. The man plays hard and he plays well up to point where he's worn down. He needs platoon help, not replacement! A big hefty 6th rounder with some upside sounds like a perfect fit. 2)

Oh man do I love that next to last paragraph. Ever would the flowers of simbelmyne bloom upon that mound, and opposing running backs would be loathe to venture nigh it. A cairn we might build in general admission...

If we had a really good NT, my mediocrity pick on defense would most certainly be ILB.

Big Matt, First off, as always, thoughtful and well put together arguments. Secondly, I think some excellent points were made by both Danny W and sdchief on this. Thirdly, I think you are way off base in undervaluing the importance of the NT to the 34 defense or suggesting that we are doing just fine with Sweet Ron manning the zero technigue for us. Here's why: While I might come off sounding a little preachy with what I'm about to say, I think it's important to refamiliarize everyone with just what a NT's roles are. The NT is responsible for both A gaps which means he faces double and sometimes triple teams all game long. It's a very demanding position and if he does his job correctly, he frees up the ILBs to shut off the outside gaps, cover the short pass, or rush the passer depending upon how the play unfolds. Offenses love to stuff the ball down a defenses throat on first and/or second down, ideally both. If they do not succeed at getting enough yardage through such an approach, they are invariably forced to pass on 3rd down which of course sets the defense up for the blitz. On obvious passing downs, the NT's (along with the DE's) main task is to collapse the pocket and force the QB to move outside - hopefully into the waiting arms of an OLB. So, if teams are having success running the ball straight at you, your linebackers and safeties are called in to stop the run which not only opens up the pass but, in particular, it also increases your exposure to short passes. Does that ring any bells from last season? According to Football Outsiders, the Chiefs DL ranked 25th against the run and, more significantly, ranked 27th against runs through the A gaps. The league average for run attempts through the A gaps was 50% in 2010. However, attempted runs through the Chiefs A gaps were a whopping 63%! Simply put, our NT was not very good at jamming the A gaps and opposing offenses made us pay dearly for that weakness. Any suggestion that Ron Edwards was "doing okay" in his role is a complete farce. Now think about how often we got exposed on short passes over the middle to TE and RBs. The reason? Our ILBs were forced to prioritize interior run support. Go check out DJ's and Belcher's tackling stats. Unless Powe turns out to be the answer, I suspect that Pioli is still looking very hard for his Wilfork and just hasn't felt that he has had favorable circumstances (at least at the time) for acquiring his Wilfork. For example, I would have loved to see the Chiefs jump on Phil Taylor with their 1st round pick but how can anyone argue with trading away Taylor in exchange for Baldwin and Houston? I certainly won't. I also suspect that if Pioli had the 2008 draft to do over, BJ Raji would be entering his 4th year as a Kansas City Chief. Maybe we can all now agree that BJ Raji would not have been a huge reach in the 2008 draft?

increase in passing and nickel/dime/quarter packages=less value put on the NT position as well

NT, IS the most important position in the 3-4...but we dont only run a 3-4....when in the base 3-4, yes...a space eater who can force double teams only makes everyone else better its the same argument made about the center...and ask any QB, they will tell you the center is the most important position on offense. yes powe fell to rd 6, yes KC liked miller better....it doesnt mean they don't value the NT position...it just means they didnt value any of the NT's available in the past 2 drafts at the positions they were picking. There was no wilfork. When Wilfork part 2 pops up, we will nab him

If its a team of good players you have a differant superstar each week, the other team will plan to prevent one guy from having a huge game, creating an opportunity for the other good players to have a great game. In my eyes, that is a headache for any team!

If he is mediocre or not even, I dont think it'll really show, but it seems all the other parts of the Defense are falling into place. Maybe, just maybe they realize the importance of the position, but didnt want to truely address it untill there was a better supporting cast. Kind of like what they shouldve done for the QB, upgrade the line AND THEN the qb after everything is in place and jelling. Its never been a win now approach, which is ok with me, I'd rather be a dynasty (Stealers or Patriots) than a built to win now team (Vermiel era). Alls I ask is they upgrade, or make an attempt to upgrade the weakest parts of the team every off season, including depth and not ignoring special teams. Cause I'd rather have a team full of good players, instead of a team with a bunch of holes to fill and 2 superstars!

I dont agree really. I mean we went after Shaun Rogers in the off season, and I still think there are some undrafted free agents that we could pick up as well. I see them getting someone in free agency and I dont know that Sweet Ron will be on the team any more.

Big Matt and Patrick, I agree every player is important on a team. But I would argue that the right person at NT can make a huge difference on the defensive line. Casey Hampton. Quite frankly one of the best NT's out there today and for the past nine seasons. The guy is a force and records on average 20 tackles per season. He gets double teamed constantly. He is a crucial part of the 3-4 because he makes room for the linebackers and secondary to blitz and make big plays. I think if you ask the linebackers and Troy Polamalu how important Casey Hampton is at that NT position and I'm sure they would tell you he is invaluable. I'm not saying you are crazy and wrong (it was a good article)... just some food for thought.

And excellent point on the importance of each position. If the corner get burned we could be in trouble but if Sweet Ron gets knocked on his ass, there are still like 5 or 6 guys between the ball carrier and the endzone. You can't have Pro Bowlers at every position. It just isn't realistic. But as long as the NT is decent, and Ron was decent last year, then you can probably hang.

First of all, this is an excellent article and I think you make some really good points here. I had a feeling heading into this draft that we wouldn't be taking a NT early and I was right. If Powe turns out to someday be a starter, Pioli looks like a genius. If not, we have Sweet Ron. BTW, this was freaking hilarious: "I say we feed Sweet Ron a steady diet of carbs and energy drinks for the next five years and just keep sending him out there until he expires on the field. Then we can raise a mound over him where he falls, and when the opposing offense is near that part of the field, it’ll be like he’s playing defense for us even after death. Our enemies will learn to fear the Mound of Edwards. Or, as the Elves would say, the Haudh-en-SweetRon." Dude, I was laughing so hard I spit coffee out my nose and I'm not even DRINKING coffee. I had that shit like 3 hours ago.

Big Matt that's the Stupidest thing I've heard. The NT position is a key position in the 3-4 defense. You can get by with stuffing a fat guy in the middle and tell him to hold his blockers or Pioli could have listens to me screaming at the TV Yelling Draft BJ Raji ! That year we were moving to the 3-4 and the difference between a good Defense and a great defense is a NT that can blast threw a double team and disrupt the backfield, like what BJ Raji does. It's also interesting how the Packers OLB are sack machines. That's strictly do to Raji blowin up the OL along with his two DE's letting the LB's run free. So yes you can have an average NT who tries his best to take on two blockers but for a great 3-4 D you have to have a top notch NT. I was extremely upset when Pioli drafted Ty Jackson instead of BJ Raji knowing we were switching to the 3-4 but that anger has only grown stronger as Raji has become the Ideal and arguably the best NT in the league while we've got Ty Jackson who looks like the ideal 3-4 DE but minus the heart and talent. My only hope is that kid finally turns it around and becomes a great DE because he's got the size and speed to do the job.

I'm just now getting to take a look at all these comments. Man, that sucks, because there are some great ones in here. I wish I'd been around to respond/discuss, but I've had a hell of a busy day.

Quick hits:

1) Rogers! I'd forgotten we made him an offer. Combine that with bringing in Taylor for a workout and it appears Pioli is looking to upgrade. Still, the fact remains, its been three years. That's a long time to stick with Ron Edwards, right?

2) Raji. Sigh. That really would've been a match made in heaven. But hey, we got Tin Man. All good, right?

3) I think you all pretty much get what I'm saying, but just to be clear, I would like to have a good nose. It would definitely be really helpful. The stuff you guys were saying about what a nose can do and the effect he can have, I don't disagree with most of that. I'm just saying, if you have to take a hit somewhere.....you know what I mean.

Really wish I had more time here, but I'm exhausted and I feel like its too late anyway. Great comments, fellas. Most of you disagreed, yet nobody got angry or weird. And you all provided rational reasoning in support of your arguments. Respect.

Good ole Matty Ice the 2nd,

Yes good article. You give us Chiefs fans some good thoughts to think about. But as any good writer needs a devil's advocate, I choose to be yours. I just have a few thoughts. Although the NT may be a position you could pick on, I don't know if it's the best one to call "mediocre" or "least important." As you and I both agree, there isn't a position that is unimportant. But can there be one that is "least important?" I think so, but I would go with the weakside inside linebacker. In a 3-4, if you have a strong OLB crew and at best an above average inside LB, your other ILB can be above average at best. In this situation, you can still have a stellar defense, as long as you have good skill players at positions like: a mammoth yet quick-footed DT, OLB strongside, DE on QB blindside, a good pair of corners and at least one really good safety. Name a defense in the NFL that has been consistently great the past few years and I'll name you their elite DT that makes plays, i.e. Pittsburg, Green Bay, New England (struggled last year a bit but nonetheless has been consistently good), Baltimore, Chicago, Philley, NYJ, etc. The cellar defenses the past few years, i.e. Carolina, Buffalo, Arizona, Miami, etc., haven't had a strong presence at ILB. And maybe with the exception of Arizona, at DT either.

What say you Matty Ice to the thought that DT is very important but nonetheless the 2nd least important position on a good defense? Second to only the weak ILB??

You give us two insightful themes to consider but very littel room to aurgue.

1) "The key to a good defense is good players, regardless of where they line up." Safety the best player, pick the safety. DE you don't need the best player, pick the DE. Hard to aurgue that this isn't the way Pioli thinks.

2) At what position does a little better or worse than average make the least difference? Again, who can aurgue that NT isn't a good place to live with average. My only complaint is that we all tend to give Sweet Ron to little credit. The man plays hard and he plays well up to point where he's worn down. He needs platoon help, not replacement! A big hefty 6th rounder with some upside sounds like a perfect fit.

2)

Oh man do I love that next to last paragraph. Ever would the flowers of simbelmyne bloom upon that mound, and opposing running backs would be loathe to venture nigh it. A cairn we might build in general admission...

If we had a really good NT, my mediocrity pick on defense would most certainly be ILB.

Big Matt,

First off, as always, thoughtful and well put together arguments.

Secondly, I think some excellent points were made by both Danny W and sdchief on this.

Thirdly, I think you are way off base in undervaluing the importance of the NT to the 34 defense or suggesting that we are doing just fine with Sweet Ron manning the zero technigue for us. Here's why:

While I might come off sounding a little preachy with what I'm about to say, I think it's important to refamiliarize everyone with just what a NT's roles are. The NT is responsible for both A gaps which means he faces double and sometimes triple teams all game long.

It's a very demanding position and if he does his job correctly, he frees up the ILBs to shut off the outside gaps, cover the short pass, or rush the passer depending upon how the play unfolds. Offenses love to stuff the ball down a defenses throat on first and/or second down, ideally both. If they do not succeed at getting enough yardage through such an approach, they are invariably forced to pass on 3rd down which of course sets the defense up for the blitz. On obvious passing downs, the NT's (along with the DE's) main task is to collapse the pocket and force the QB to move outside - hopefully into the waiting arms of an OLB.

So, if teams are having success running the ball straight at you, your linebackers and safeties are called in to stop the run which not only opens up the pass but, in particular, it also increases your exposure to short passes. Does that ring any bells from last season?

According to Football Outsiders, the Chiefs DL ranked 25th against the run and, more significantly, ranked 27th against runs through the A gaps. The league average for run attempts through the A gaps was 50% in 2010. However, attempted runs through the Chiefs A gaps were a whopping 63%! Simply put, our NT was not very good at jamming the A gaps and opposing offenses made us pay dearly for that weakness. Any suggestion that Ron Edwards was "doing okay" in his role is a complete farce.

Now think about how often we got exposed on short passes over the middle to TE and RBs. The reason? Our ILBs were forced to prioritize interior run support. Go check out DJ's and Belcher's tackling stats.

Unless Powe turns out to be the answer, I suspect that Pioli is still looking very hard for his Wilfork and just hasn't felt that he has had favorable circumstances (at least at the time) for acquiring his Wilfork. For example, I would have loved to see the Chiefs jump on Phil Taylor with their 1st round pick but how can anyone argue with trading away Taylor in exchange for Baldwin and Houston? I certainly won't.

I also suspect that if Pioli had the 2008 draft to do over, BJ Raji would be entering his 4th year as a Kansas City Chief. Maybe we can all now agree that BJ Raji would not have been a huge reach in the 2008 draft?

increase in passing and nickel/dime/quarter packages=less value put on the NT position as well

NT, IS the most important position in the 3-4...but we dont only run a 3-4....when in the base 3-4, yes...a space eater who can force double teams only makes everyone else better

its the same argument made about the center...and ask any QB, they will tell you the center is the most important position on offense.

yes powe fell to rd 6, yes KC liked miller better....it doesnt mean they don't value the NT position...it just means they didnt value any of the NT's available in the past 2 drafts at the positions they were picking. There was no wilfork. When Wilfork part 2 pops up, we will nab him

If its a team of good players you have a differant superstar each week, the other team will plan to prevent one guy from having a huge game, creating an opportunity for the other good players to have a great game. In my eyes, that is a headache for any team!

If he is mediocre or not even, I dont think it'll really show, but it seems all the other parts of the Defense are falling into place. Maybe, just maybe they realize the importance of the position, but didnt want to truely address it untill there was a better supporting cast. Kind of like what they shouldve done for the QB, upgrade the line AND THEN the qb after everything is in place and jelling. Its never been a win now approach, which is ok with me, I'd rather be a dynasty (Stealers or Patriots) than a built to win now team (Vermiel era). Alls I ask is they upgrade, or make an attempt to upgrade the weakest parts of the team every off season, including depth and not ignoring special teams. Cause I'd rather have a team full of good players, instead of a team with a bunch of holes to fill and 2 superstars!

I dont agree really. I mean we went after Shaun Rogers in the off season, and I still think there are some undrafted free agents that we could pick up as well. I see them getting someone in free agency and I dont know that Sweet Ron will be on the team any more.

Big Matt and Patrick,

I agree every player is important on a team. But I would argue that the right person at NT can make a huge difference on the defensive line. Casey Hampton. Quite frankly one of the best NT's out there today and for the past nine seasons. The guy is a force and records on average 20 tackles per season. He gets double teamed constantly. He is a crucial part of the 3-4 because he makes room for the linebackers and secondary to blitz and make big plays. I think if you ask the linebackers and Troy Polamalu how important Casey Hampton is at that NT position and I'm sure they would tell you he is invaluable. I'm not saying you are crazy and wrong (it was a good article)... just some food for thought.

And excellent point on the importance of each position. If the corner get burned we could be in trouble but if Sweet Ron gets knocked on his ass, there are still like 5 or 6 guys between the ball carrier and the endzone.

You can't have Pro Bowlers at every position. It just isn't realistic. But as long as the NT is decent, and Ron was decent last year, then you can probably hang.

First of all, this is an excellent article and I think you make some really good points here. I had a feeling heading into this draft that we wouldn't be taking a NT early and I was right. If Powe turns out to someday be a starter, Pioli looks like a genius. If not, we have Sweet Ron.

BTW, this was freaking hilarious:

"I say we feed Sweet Ron a steady diet of carbs and energy drinks for the next five years and just keep sending him out there until he expires on the field. Then we can raise a mound over him where he falls, and when the opposing offense is near that part of the field, it’ll be like he’s playing defense for us even after death. Our enemies will learn to fear the Mound of Edwards. Or, as the Elves would say, the Haudh-en-SweetRon."

Dude, I was laughing so hard I spit coffee out my nose and I'm not even DRINKING coffee. I had that shit like 3 hours ago.