Chris Johnson VS Jamaal Charles: Do The Chiefs Have The Right Approach?

I think CJ is an incredible back. I do think the Titans may have hurt him a bit by giving him too many carries. Your body just takes a pounding and I think the more carries you get the harder it is to keep it up throughout the year, especially as you get older. Just look at LT. Everyone thought he was washed up but then he had a resurgence in NY...though he is tailing off now late in the season. It just depends on how a team wants to handle their investment on the guy. If you give him 400 carries in a season like LJ, you will probably wear him out. If you limit his carries you will probably squeeze a few more years out of him.

Nick, I would say that your assumption about the under 10 carry games is currect about Johnson, but in Charles case most of those 24 games where he had under 10 carries came when he was Larry Johnson's backup. Speaking of which, I agree with you about running him down with all those carries.

What is the premise for saying, about the Raider game, that one play did not cost us the game, when Bowe's drop obviously did cost the game? We all realize there are lots of important plays in a game, that many plays affect the outcome, and that people in the business rely upon the cliche of one play not costing a game so as not to blame a team member publicly, but when a receiver drops a pass that would win the game, or a place kicker blows a field goal that would win the game, those are obviously plays that cost a game. Why not acknowledge what everyone sees and is plain as day? It does not mean Bowe is a bad player; he just made a mistake that cost a game.

It does seem to make sense that Charles should start and/or get significant carries early in the game. I suppose Haley (or someone) has a reason for it, but I have not heard what it is.

Haley is the Head Coach? I think that matters more than what we think, Haley gets fired if he works the equations wrong.

I think we are overrating this whole "starting RB" argument. If Jones get's the first carry, and then Charles comes in and gets the second carry then techically Jones started. It's not like we sit Charles on the bench and Jones gets all of the carries unless he gets hurt. I would like to see the mix reversed some, but aside from the intangibles associated with being the "starter" and having to modify the depth charts on Madden it really doesn't mean that much. I guess I don't care who runs first, just who runs most.

Interesting that they gave the ball to Battle on the fourth down play. He powered through a tackle too.

I loved that 4th & 1 play with Battle. Totally changed the direction of the game in my opinion.

But then the likes of Chis Johnson fans etc.. can just say well we'll never know who da man because Jamaal never took the workload CJ did and they'll say "look at the numbers"... BS man... I can appeciate numbers too but I know raw talent when I see it. But really man where is the respect? I guess the NFL just hates the Chiefs and therefore Jamaal gets no respect by default. Well THAT'S why I just went out and asked Santa for a KC Chiefs hat and Jamaal Charles jersey for Christmas. Let the haters talk smack. I hear you Warren Sapp! Behind the camera talking crap........

Yeah the lack of media attention period with this team is crazy. If Brett Favre had played (and won) 11 days after having his appendix out it would of been the lead story on Sports Center every night for a week. If JC played for the Jets he'd be the talk of the NFL.

Blockeater, Thanks, I appreciate it. I've read enough of your comments around here to respect your input regardless of if you agree with me or not so don't ever hesitate to "bring it" if you disagree with something I wrote. I think when two people can go back and forth on opposite sides of an issue with well thought out arguments it gives the rest of the readers more information to form their own opinion on and everybody wins. So thanks for your input.

100% agree.

Are you in the camp we need Bowe and a round 1 pick WR? That would give Charles less carries than he has now. I am trying to figure out the mix of touches that the CHiefs have to divide.

Your argument that Jamaal's big runs haven't only come at the beginning of the season or at the beginning of games doesn't dispute what I'm saying. I'm saying he's ALWAYS fresh because they aren't over using him. I'm arguing that the reason he can put up big numbers or big runs (like the 80 yarder last week) at the end of the season or at the end of a game is because they've rationed his carries. As far as last week goes, I'd argue that we don't know what they would have done had the game been close. When the Rams scored to make it close they gave the ball to Jamaal and he put it away. Had we been going back and forth, score for score, we don't know if they would of used Charles more. We can both speculate either way. Finally, you said: "He’s too small and can’t handle the workload of a featured back. Wrong (Chris Johnson does it and is smaller)" They are actually about the exact same size as I pointed in the piece. Second, as the piece also shows Johnson has not been as effective when he had a heavy work load. Finally, you saying that he CAN handle a heavy work load just because Johnson does (although less effective) doesn't hold water. That's like me arguing Brodie Croyle shouldn't have injury problems just because there is another QB his same size that hasn't had injuries (I'm by no means saying that Jamaal is like Brokie, just an example). Jamaal had shoulder issues after last season and at times this season has seemed to be a little dinged up even with the light workload (including cramping problems last week). The bottom line is that I can't prove that he can't handle 25 carries/game and you can't prove that he can. All I can argue is that the way the Chiefs are using him has led to an NFL record in terms of YPC and the team leads the league in rushing. It's hard to argue with those results. That having been said I hope they get the most out of him down the stretch to ensure we win the division.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I wasn't saying those things to "prove you wrong" but rather a counter example. Neither side can really be proven and is all speculation at this point. "Finally, you saying that he CAN handle a heavy work load just because Johnson does (although less effective) doesn’t hold water." Your whole piece is comparing Johnson to Jamaal so I don't see how you can call me out for using the same comparison. You are basically saying that your whole article doesn't hold water.

Except I provided numbers to back up my argument.

I guess all I was saying is if you discredit my comparision of the two then even the numbers you provided doesn't hold water either. I think both the numbers you provided, and my opinion on how Charles would react with Johnson-like carries both have merit. Their numbers don't even show the same decrease/increase in production over each category you provided. One question I have is what would be the reaction if Charles were to get hurt even with limited carries? Would people be saying that he is used too much still? I don't think it is smart to not use your star player because of fear of injury. It is a physical game. People get hurt.

Well I don't need to provide numbers. I've watched Jamaal since High School and I've blogged about Jamaal on the KCChiefs website since he got to KC (when he had absolutely NO respect under Herm Edwards). Therefore if you go check out the fan blog there under the screenname PAWORLDWIDE you'll see written proof dated before the emergence of Jamaal Charles that they were MISUSING him. I don't disagree with your article but stop trying to act like your "numbers" prove all. Blockeater is making a valid counter analysis to your article. He isn't arguing with you. Stop trying to explain something you don't understand. Jamaal Charles, Jimmy Johnson, Janis Joplin, UGK, Steve Jackson, Kevin Everett all came from Port Arthur, Texas. You'll never quite understand. It's something in the swamp water baby! Yeeuh!

the whole point is that both are similar. One is a great back that is maybe overused (or he would have a similar explosiveness) while the other (might be underused) is creating stats unseen by the NFL before. I think Haley is doing it right even though he could burn Charles out for more doing it wrong.

"I’m arguing that the reason he can put up big numbers or big runs (like the 80 yarder last week) at the end of the season or at the end of a game is because they’ve rationed his carries." But alas you can't prove that argument. It's just an opinion. Moreover, it can be proven that using Jones more has been a non-productive choice. Nice write-up btw. Oh, btw the Bill Barnwell article you link to ESPN Insiders can be read for free at Football Outsiders.

You're right, I can't prove it. I do think the comparison to a very similar player in CJ is interesting and stand by what I said that it is hard to argue with an NFL record in YPC and leading the league in rushing.

I would say that Chris Johnson is probably being overused and that Jamaal Charles is probably being underused. In other words, I subscribe to the 2 back concept.

I've stopped posting on the KCChiefs fan blog because it is useless except to let out frustrations. But go look at posts from PAWORLDWIDE since Jamaal GOT to the NFL with Herm Edwards. No. Better yet. Go look at old posts on the UT website if they even still exists. I've been screaming about Jamaal since day 1 and the only response I get are from coaches, critics and even fans that are so wrapped up in "how the game is played" that they forget how to play the game all together. You hit on every point that I've screamed about. All people like you and I can do is hope for the following: Jamaal Charles does so well even with less carries that he beats out all other backs even with less carries (ypc and total rushing yards). Because come on man... You know it's a lost cause dealing with these stupid critics! They'll just keep disrespecting Charles forever because they're jealous that they didn't jump on the band-wagon sooner than the END OF THE 2010 SEASON!!!!! Because that is all they do. Jump on band-wagons..... Well they missed this wagon ride didn't they? So let's enjoy listening to TV personalities on NFL Network like Warren Sapp not give credit where credit is due because they're a bunch of haters having a rough time eating dirt. Jamaal Charles dirt. That's some good ol' Port Arthur dirt in there face. And I know it's been a long time since Jimmy Johnson has given a care about his hometown, but where you at Jimmy? Help Jamaal out! Make them respect him! Chris Johnson got his gay little interview last year. For waht? Where is Jamaal's interview? Long live King Charles! In ya face tricks!

I would rather try and understand Haley's motive for using Charles and Jones the way he has, then to "prove the haters wrong". So far, I haven't really heard and argument that makes me ok with how they have been used. The fact that we are winning and are the best rushing team in the NFL is the closest thing, but I still think we can be better.

How about this 9-5 that one reason to argue that they are being used the right number of times? How about Coach Haley know more about FB than you do in his little finger than you do? IT''S WORKING. At first it made you wonder. Hey it does not take a brain surgeon to finger it out. It is a long season. Jones and Charles compliment each other and also keep each other fresh for the next game. Great article.

I think jc should step up and tell them hes not coming out hes got a contract now if you want it take it if not make your career longer and split carries to me its up to him and theres a lot of risk envolved fumbles,injuries and picking up blitzes

I agree. Well said

You also blamed Berry for not making a play or two that cost us a touchdown or two. In a game that close, you can always point to a play that wasn't made by a player that should have been made. There will be those plays in every game win or lose but you only point to them in a loss. We had multiple drops on critical 3rd downs last game but nobody is talking about it because we won. It'll happen in EVERY game and you can only limit it and not completely correct it. However, the misuse of a player can be avoided. Not playing your best player the majority of the time is a blatant and obvious coaching mistake.

You're right. I had forgot about Berry's poor play in the Raider game. I think he actually cost the Chiefs two touchdowns. You are also correct that mistakes only become real important when they cost the team a win, but that is the nature of the game. Coaches and players always state the cliche that one play does not decide a game, the truth is obvious for everyone to see - there are plays that are determinative in games and cost teams a win. When Bowe dropped that pass, and gave the Raiders a chance to tie the game that they would have otherwise had lost, it turned out that Bowe's drop was determinative in the Chiefs' losing the game. There likely were other plays (such as Berry's bad plays) that were also determinative or at least would have had a big impact on the game, and there are always many important plays in any game, but none of that changes the fact that there wa a crucial play (Bowe's drop) that cost the Chiefs a win in the sense that the Chiefs definitely would have won the game if he caught the ball. Yes, there were other plays that could have overcome Bowe's drop, but to not recognize that Bowe's drop cost the Chiefs a win is ignoring the obvious. Now, Bowe has otherwise had a good year (and times great games), which may make up for him losing the Raider game, but that does not change the fact that his drop cost the Chiefs a game.

Bowe didn't lose the Raider game, The WHOLE team did with penalties that continually killed drives.Why was the play call for a 15 yard post when all the chiefs needed to pick up was 5, screen pass or a dump pass to a back would have done the trick. even if Bowe catches the pass how do we know JC doesnt fumble it on the next play ? or maybe Cassel throws an int. There is all kinds of what ifs ? just because Bowe dropped THAT pass doesn't mean we lost the game.

I'd like to see about a 60/40 split towards Charles in terms of carries. That's not a huge difference from what they are doing which is about 50/50, but I think Jamaal could handle that slight increase.

JC is getting 41.6% of the carries. In my opinion, that is a HUGE difference from your 60/40 split. If JC had 60% as you want then he'd have an additional 89 carries this year at his average of 6.4 would mean 570 yards more or an additional 40.7 Yds/game.

You're including all rushes for the team. Charles has 203 carries and Jones has 212. That's less then 1 carry per game more for Jones. That's a 49/51 split if you want to get technical. Of those 415 carries an increase to 60% would put him at 249 carries or only about three more carries per game. That would put him at about 17-18 carries per game (up from 14.5 now). That sounds about right to me.

I just misunderstood your 60/40 split then. I think Jamaal should be getting more than 17-18 a game. I don't think Jones should be getting near as many carries as Charles and the fact that he has more is not right, IMO.