Tyson Jackson Is Starting To Get It

There has been a lot of unwarranted criticism of Scott Pioli’s pick of Tyson Jackson. Many have called him a reach and a bust.

First,  I want to address this idea of a draft pick being a reach. I think it is baloney. Of course, you can reach, as the Raiders did by taking DHB over Michael Crabtree, but let us forget about draft position for a moment. You know as well as I do, that players can be busts or gems no matter where they are taken. For instance, if the Chiefs had taken Jared Allen in the first round, the pundits would have raked them over the coals. Today, they would be calling them brilliant.

The whole idea of getting to draft early is that you get the pick from everyone in the draft. You get the opportunity to take the player you really want. Obviously, there is strategy involved. Obviously, Pioli shouldn’t take a guy with his first pick that he has a decent shot of getting with his third. There is risk involved and Pioli has to weigh that risk, but to call Tyson Jackson a reach is absurd. He very well may have been the best player at his position. Who cares if Mel Kiper doesn’t think he was worthy of his draft slot? Are we really going to split hairs over two or three draft positions?

Tyson Jackson was the player the Chiefs wanted and they had the opportunity to draft him. That was their luxury by having a pick as early as they did. It is easy to sit here, after the fact, after we have seen what holes THIS Chiefs team has and point fingers. The reality is, if Tyson Jackson is going to be a bust, he was going to be a bust no matter where he was drafted. The Chiefs either got it right or they got it wrong. That should be the focus of our evaluation.

Contrary to what you may be hearing, it appears that Tyson Jackson is steadily improving. I know a lot of people would have liked to see more gaudy stats from such a high draft pick but those people have been deluding themselves. It is rare for a rookie, at any position, to come in and light up the stat board. Sure, you can pull examples of guys who have but I can pull examples of hundreds who haven’t.

General wisdom is that it takes three years for a defensive lineman to develop. Jared Allen, who eventually reached a Pro Bowl level as we all (painfully) know, had a very healthy 27.5 sacks his first three years in the NFL. Certainly not bad but also, not his potential. In the last three years Allen has 43.5 sacks and counting. He has nearly doubled his production and is a perennial Pro Bowler. He also had a big second year of 11.5 sacks then, as defenses adjusted to him, he dropped to 7.5 sacks the following year. It took Allen that year to adjust to the defenses and he came back in his 4th year to record 15.5 sacks.

The point is, there is a back and forth to things in the NFL. College players, who dominate, especially on the defensive line, often do so because they are going up against opponents that simply aren’t as physically gifted as themselves. Payers are able to easily rely on their physical talents in college and they often are not as adept at technique. Then suddenly, they are thrust into the NFL and the competition jumps up to such a high level they quickly learn that they cannot simply rely on being strong and fast. Learning takes time.

Tyson Jackson is learning and he is improving. He has a big job to do and he has shown resiliency all season. Let’s take a look at his stats.

First 7 games:

5 Tackles. (Ouch, right?)

Last 7 games:

24 Tackles. Factor that over as season you get 54.8 tackles.

In his last 3 games:

15 Tackles. Factor THAT over a season and you get 80 Tackles.

The proof is there. T.J. went from being non existent in the first 7 games to a threat on his side in the last 7.

Don’t be surprised if, in the next game, Jackson only records a tackle or two or maybe even lays an egg. Steps forward are usually followed by some sort of step back. The point is, Jackson is moving in the right direction.

I am not a big fan of cliche but Rome wasn’t built in a day. The Chiefs have a lot of problems and big problems are not usually fixed easily or quickly. Be patient Chiefs fans, individual progress is being made and eventually, it will lead to team progress.

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102:

It's not realistic to assume someone rated #15 on the big board will slide 20 plus spots. There are always a couple of guys who slide down pretty far, but you can't count on it. Someone with pass rushing skills like Dunlap almost never fall. If anything, teams reach for players like that. Dorsey versus Seymour? I'll take Dorsey. He is just coming into his own. In a couple of seasons, you can go visit Seymour at the retired players home. I am open to trading Dorsey, but I have to love Magee first. Right now, I don't. If I loved Magee and could get back more than two second rounders, I would look at it.

I don't hate at all. I am glad he has improved which will allow us to trade him. Who would you rather have Dorsey (4-3 guy in a 3-4) or Seymour (3-4 in a 3-4). I would rather have Seymour signed and those two picks from Tampa, than a high salary guy that is doing a good job). I understand it may be a long shot, but wouldn't you like Seymour,Dunlap and T Jackson rotating and Cody or Williams in the middle? Not sure if Dunlap will slide that far, but maybe he does.

102:

Just the easy first question. Why are you still hating on Dorsey? He has been our best d-lineman this year.

Some of you knew this would be coming, what to do in 2010. Pioli knows that he must make a splash this off season. Here is your splash: We must out spend everyone on DE Richard Seymour. This will allow us to move Dorsey. Hear me out first..... Dorsey goes to Tampa for their two second rounders. Next we trade down for less than the chart says. I think Houston at #15 would jump up and grab DT McCoy, we would add their 2nd and 3rd rounders. With these picks, using one mock site this is what we could draft:
R1 #15 NT Terrence Cody-Alabama
R2 #35 DE Carlos Dunlap-Florida
R2 #36 LB Brandon Spikes-Florida
R2 #40 C Stefen Weisniewski-Penn St.
R2 #46 LB Ricky Sapp-Clemson
R2 #48 LB Sean Lee-Penn St.
R3 #68 G Mike Johnson-Alabama
R3 #76 WR Eric Decker-Minnesota
R4 #100 SS Justin Woodall-Alabama
R5 #132 FS Jordan Lake-Baylor
R5 #140 RB DeMarco Murray-Oklahoma
R5 #147 KR Brandon Banks-KSU
R7 #212 OT James Williams-Harvard

D line---DE's-TJack,Dunlap,Seymour DT-Cody. That is 4 guys with 1st round talent!!!!

Patrick,

How can anyone think that draft was average? For a 2-14 team that is drafting in the third slot to only add one starter and a kicker is horrible. Pioli has done a very bad job so far. Just what NT on the Chiefs roster in 08 gave Pioli confidence to pass on Baji and REACH for Jackson. I think I would rather have Raji and McGee.

After this weeks beat down, we will be all alone in the 4th slot of the 2010 draft. Now our biggest need (NT), will be hard to draft w/o again reaching. So we have two options, sign a FA NT or trade down (which is hard to do from #4).

Everyone knew Washington would take time to develop as raw as he was. It also didn't help that he missed part of the off season program because of school. Next season may be more indicative of the player Washington may become.

Patrick:

I am not going to credit Cassel and Vrabel as far as draft class starting is concerned. Nor will I credit a kicker as a starting player. By my count, we got one starter. Coming off a two win season and not having a second round pick, that's not a good performance. I do think Magee was drafted to start. The coaching staff was down on Dorsey and Magee is more of a 3-4 DE type. Washington should have been able to grab the nickel role, but he spit the bit on that one.

Patrick, I would also say that having a DC that has a clue about running the 3-4 is probably equally important.

For similar reasons about the need to give a DL 3 years to develop, I disagree with those who say Albert needs to move from LT to LG (or RG). One thing that Albert has had to contend with is the mandatory loss of 20 lbs. I believe that, more than anything, has resulted in what some want to call a drop off in performance from what we saw last year. When he was heavier, he could leverage his weight more effectively. Going to a lighter weight means his footwork becomes more of a factor - that kind of change in blocking style takes time to develop. I saw what he was capable of last year and so I've got a pretty good feeling he'll work out just fine right where he is.

I agree with you all, we really need a dominant Nose if we have illusions about running the 3-4 well.

I think people will be just as shocked when jackson becomes a top 3-4 end from adding a nose tackle as they will be when cassel becomes very efficient with an offensive line and recievers.

We are missing the core of our D- S/ILB/NT****** and our OL C/G/T, Albert to GUARD

One thing I will agree with is Jeremy's comment about the need for a dominant NT. That addition, more than any other, has the potential to raise the performance levels of every player around him.

Merlin,
I love Succop but it is a little hard for me to swallow that Pioli's flyer on Mr. Irrelevant was more genius than dumb luck. Suffice it to say I'm just glad we ended up with him.

Well he got Jackson...jury is still out.

He got Cassel and Vrabel both with the 2nd round pick. Cassel can play with a good team around him as he proved in NE.

Now we are in the 3rd round. McGee wasn't really drafted to be a starter was he? I think they grabbed him in case Dorsey didn't work out at end, which it looks like he will. McGee was an insurance policy, not a starter.

The 4th round is murky territory at best. Washington is incredibly athletic and has a lot of potential. The Chiefs have some pretty good defensive back already. He is a project for sure.

Collin Brown has not played that much but will hopefully develop into at least a solid backup on the offensive line.

Williams, O'Connel and Lawrence are all projects.

Succup has been fantastic.

So really, Pioli got 4 starters and immediate contributors in this draft.

Jackson
Cassel
Vrabel
Succup

Not terrible. Not great. Especially since Jackson hasn't contributed a ton yet. Although Vrabel has been mentoring a VERY promising Andy Studebaker so Vrabel's pickup could be very valuable when all is said and done.

Personally, I am enjoying this exchange. I am pretty much stuck in the middle between you two. If we have to worry about Tyson Jackson though, we are really screwed as a franchise. It's a much more valid critique to ask yourself what Pioli has gotten out of this whole draft class. You can name three contributors Jackson, Succop and Belcher. Right now, between the Jackson pick and the Succop pick you have a vast wasteland. Not good at all.

Jackson is making the tackles DD. He alone is not responsible for the entire defense giving up a high volume of rushing yards. What the team did defensively and what Jackson has done individually are two different things. I think we could agree that Tamba is having a pretty good season rushing the passer but the Chiefs still give up passing yards in heaps. That isn't a reflection on Tamba Hali.

By your logic, if a team drops back to pass a lot and Tamba gets four sacks in the game it is not because he did well but because the team dropped back to pass more than usual.

Tamba still has to get to the QB and bring him down just as TJ has to shed is blocker to make a tackle.

If you can show me a stat that says no teams were running at TJ's side the first half of the year and that that is the reason for his sudden increase in tackles I will agree with you.

He laid many eggs in the first part of the season and he is not laying as many eggs now. I see him beating blockers and making tackles when he wasn't before. I am seeing this with my own eyes so to say he is not improving is a falsity.

Whether he has lived up to his draft position is a matter of opinion but I can not accept "they are running to his side more" as a reason for his increase in tackles. The backs aren't running right into his arms. There are blockers in front of them and TJ has to beat them to make the tackle.

I debate you with all due respect DD. I am sure you know that but as we have never "had at" each other before, I wanted to be sure you knew that.

It's a simple issue of volume Patrick. If teams are running at you more, you're bound to make more tackles by virtue of those increased opportunities. You tout the last 3 games as compelling evidence that Jackson is improving yet somehow conveniently ignore the fact that those last 3 games involved our defense giving up close to 800 yards rushing - i.e., that an average of well over 250 yards per game. For that omission I call BS on you.

You want stats? The stats that are meaningful in judging how much of an impact a 3-4 DL has are: TFL, Pr (QB Pressures), and S - in that order. TJ's numbers in each of those categories? 0, 4 & 0 respectively.

I agree that it takes at least 2-3 years for a DL to fully develop. For this reason, I also agree that it is unfair to characterize TJ as a bust. What I can't agree with is trying to claim a high draft pick is something that he isn't and in this case that "something" is the claim that TJ has in any way lived up to his top 5 billing, or is even showing signs of progress on that front. He most definitely is not so let's please stop the charade and more importantly, let's please stop making excuses for this new regime. They have not earned our trust or respect and I'm just not into blind faith. I want tangible results.

I firmly believe he is a great draft pick. Time will tell. But I can tell you one thing for sure right now. ANY replay of our defense making a play includes him. I'm not saying he is the ONE making the play but he shows up every time.

The guy has NEVER given up on any play until the whistle blows. He moves and keeps on moving until there is nothing left to do on the play. And that is great.

He came to a God awful team with horrible coaching from the defensive side...their all bad. IMO Tyson will be fine.

DD:

At no point did I say it was unfair to use stats to evaluate a young defensive lineman. I did say it was unfair to declare him a bust in his first season. I did in fact, use stats to show he has been making progress.

You can not argue that Jackson isn't making progress. He isn't making his tackles 40 yards down field. He is a lineman and is making tackles between the sticks, which is his job. That means that he is not always getting swallowed up and blocked out of the way.

I have watched every game this season two to three times and teams WERE running to TJ's side early in the season and he was getting blocked out of the play.

As for him being "worthy" of a top 5 pick, again, I call BS. If he turns out be the player Pioli expects him to be he was worthy of the top 5 pick. If never turns out he was a bust.

If teams are running at Jackson and his tackles are increasing it means he is doing his job and stopping runs to his side. That means he is doing his job, not that he is easy to run on.

I have every confidence that Jackson will get better, once we have a true 3-4 NT.

Patrick:

If Tyson was indeed 2-3 slots lower on the big board when we took him I would agree that it would not be a reach. However, he was around 10-12 on the big board. I would call a difference of 7-9 slots a reach. He was a reach. Will he become a very good DE? It's too early to tell. I agree that it takes 2-3 years to evaluate a defensive lineman. I was very vocal in defending Dorsey last offseason and I will defend Tyson this offseason. I hope we don't continue to spend top five money on talent rated 10-12.

Ahhhh DD, your optimism is still working overtime.

hahaha.

Pat,

You say it's not fair to use stats to evaluate a young DT and then you use stats to suggest he's making progress?

I say you can't have it both ways.

The biggest reason why his tackling stats seem to be going up lately is simply because he is getting a lot more opportunities to make tackles than before. How's that you say? The fact is that lately opposing teams have been running directly AT HIM more than before because they can see in their film review that that is a very successful formula this season.

When a squirrel is standing in the way of a shower of nuts, he's bound to collect a couple for himself in the process. A #3 pick should have more impact than Tyson Jackson has had this year. His selection was a reach, and his performance this year (or I should say lack thereof) has born out that early criticism.

This is not a question of 20-20 hindsight. There were better, known choices at the time who, unlike Jackson, have proven themselves worthy of top 5 draft pick status this season.

My hope is that Tyson Jackson some day proves himself. So far, he sucks.