Talk about perfect timing.
Here is the situation folks. Todd Haley’s team heads into the bye week sitting at 1-6, reeling from an exposing loss to a division rival at home. At a time when all the attention and questioning ought to be focused like a laser beam on things like personnel decisions and horrible playcalling, the jester deftly slides to the front and provides us with a diversion.
Were it not for LJ giving us a reason to talk about his firing, might we be arguing over whether Todd Haley should keep his job instead?
What do you think? Are we truly talking about what’s most important right now?
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There is and always will be a problem with LJ since he got his big money deal. But i think there is a real problem with Haleys coaching ability. He might be a good OC but i do not think he is a head coach and never will be. But does anyone above him have the balls to do something about it this early in the year. I dont see the chiefs doing any better with Haley then with Herm. And please no more Patriot and Cardinal players.
Haley is not thankful for anything right now.
Billy, I disagree. I think Haley is a good coach. Pioli and Haley are 10 months into a three year re-building project. Be patient give him time. Is he making mistakes? Aboslutely. Is he learning from them? Absolutely, he is too smart not to.
Changing coaches sets everything back, why start over when in essence that is what we are doing now.
Go Chiefs.
Jeremy,
At this point, don’t you think it’s a little hard to argue that this year’s team is better than last year’s?
Go Chiefs.
I am not ready to kick Haley to the curb yet. He has done several things that I love. However, he has definately put to much on his plate. If he wants to be a head coach then he needs to do what every other head coach in the league does, have an OC. Firing Chan Gailey was a huge mistake. Not saying Chan was a stud but having him here would allow Haley to focus on being a Head Coach. I have been seriously questioning Haley’s play calling. I bet my son $10 bucks that we would run it up the gut on 1st down three times in a row last Sunday. I will just say I didn’t take my son’s money. The musical players is not working either. I know we are banged up, but you have to let guys learn to gel before you send them packing. Either way I think he is going no where just like Cassel is here for time to come, win or lose, suck or don’t suck.
It is only fair we give them all time to see if it works. I think it’s way to early to start looking for a new HC. Just Shane’s opinion.
So maybe the thing to do is just fire the OC?
Exactly!! LOL
For those who say that Haley cannot make it as a head coach, a question comes to mind. It seems his strength would be offense and weakness defense, yet for most of the year our defense has been our strength and our offense sucks the big Arrowhead Chili Cheese dog.
DD, you are right. So far this team is not as good as last years. We still have 9 more games to go. Ask me at the end of the year.
Let me ask this another way. What does everybody think Haley has done right so far?
Shut down the chief’s version of club med Herm was directing. How about hiring an OC before he ends up like Zorn? NFL radio yesterday said when ask what changed with Bill B from the first time to the second with New England, he said he learned to delegate.
Coast,
Just because Haley takes a different approach to how he treats his players does not make that approach better than the one he replaced. You say he needs to learn to delegate, I’m thinking he’s in over his head.
Jeremy is right guys. Give it time! If we see the same results that we have now after 9 more games, then we have a serious problem next year. I am patient enough to wait and see though.
Haley’s not going anywhere for 4 years at the earliest. Pioli made a decision (maybe his second choice, but he made the hire anyway) after he determined that Herm wasn’t gonna cut it.
We knew what this team was at the end of last season, and we had a pretty good idea about what we’d be this year. Let’s talk after Haley’s third season about his job security – any conversation on the issue before that is premature, IMO.
We’ll have to wait 4 years to get to the point where we’ve seen enough?
Wow.
Todd Haley said it himself. He will be evaluated in terms of wins and losses. I think that’s a pretty fair measure.
In my book, Haley really has zero wins because that Washington game was not a contest of who was best, it was more like a competition to determine who could play the worst – which the Redskins won.
Give coach Haley a break. Did anybody really expect the Chiefs to win the superbowl this year? He took over a team that was in shambles, and is doing all he can to make it better. The offensive line is horrible because Herm Edwards let it get that way. The defense isn’t very good because, well let’s face it, it hasn’t been good for about 10 years now.
Give the man a few years to get players in that fit his system. Only when the Chiefs get some respectable players on the roster (which currently contains very few) will they have a chance to be consistently successful.
The team was for all intents and purposes on its last leg when Herm inherited it. Last year was supposed to be a true rebuilding year and Clark Hunt didn’t have the stomach to stick with the plan that he himself bought into. But let’s just say for the sake of argument that the team that Haley inherited was in shambles. Have the players that Haley’s gotten rid of been replaced by better players? Not in my book. So, is this team in better shape than it was when Haley took it over or is it in worse shape? I’m leaning towards the latter.
DD the future of the team looks much more promising as I sit here looking at a shitty win loss record that it did when I sat looking at a shitty win loss record with Herm and Carl at the helm.
Randy,
What specifically drives your optimism/belief? What are some of the hopeful signs that lead you to think that this team is headed down the right path?
You’re all over it today DD. I like it.
But it seems that everyone else is siding with Haley.
DD: do you think that Bellicheck would have a better record right now if he took over the Chiefs? What about Shanahan, Cower, or even Josh McDaniels?
Haley is doing his best to make chicken salad out of chicken shit! (Thank you Casey Printers)
At this point, I would most definitely take any of those coaches and yes I believe both our team and our record would be better. In particular, I know for a fact that Bill Cowher would not have fired Chan Gailey and I also feel pretty comfortable in saying our defense would be considerably better if we had “The Chin” at the helm. You make this too easy Jeremy!
I disagree, all those coaches, except Mcdaniels (rookie), have struggled in years past with much better teams that the Chiefs.
We suck, and I doubt they could do much better.
To that I would say that the main reasons why we suck so horribly can be largely attributed to bad scheme choices, bad play calling and bad personnel decisions – all of which are things falling under the direct control the current head coach.
The biggest reason is I like my seats better this year DD.
I gotta hand it to ya Randy. That’s a pretty good reason!! LOL.
This year is toast. And there are times that I wonder if we’re just playing to get a higher draft spot. Because potentially, even as bad as we are, we could still have the 5th or 6th over-all. Maybe Pioli has somebody particular in mind? Or maybe Haley’s just that bad of a play caller and Pendergast’s D doesn’t like tackling or trying things like coverage?
A lot of things need fixing here and a lot of things “could have” been fixed last off-season, but weren’t. I don’t understand it but hopefully theres a reason. I agree that another OC should come in and I think Pendergast should be let go. Be great to see Crennel in the red and gold.
as i have always said I miss Thiggy pigen smalls and chans ARROWSPREAD offense… atleast it moved the ball and scored some points…what are the point totals from this year to last…. bet we scored more points last year….. BRING BACK CHAN or hire someone quick…. I think haley will be good.. He did start with crap and well how many new players…. just wish he would play D. Johnson more…. PLEASE CUT TIES WITH LARRY>>>> jared and tony you are missed ….. who els misses the bull horned caddy pullying up with jared and his DUMB AND DUMMBER pastel suits and cowboy hat…..
Sorry, Double D, but that dog won’t hunt. Herm baby took a top tier offense and turned it into a nothing offense in less than two seasons. That supposedly shrewd evaluator of talent left the team nearly devoid of anything remotely resembling a pro football team’s roster. Herm sucked and he killed this team. Haley and Pioli are trying to pick up the pieces and are making progress.
You talk about poor play calling, I would rather have Haley here for ten years rather than Herm for one. Remember R2P2? That was not a figment of anyone’s imagination. Herm was the worst coach that ever came down the pike, bar none. If a suck ass like Herm got three years to ruin this team, Haley should get at least two to rectify it.
YEAH HAMMER YEAH!!!! EXACTLY!!!
DD: I can think of quite a few things that could’ve been done differently to make the team better THIS year. Chiefs could’ve been major players in FA. They could’ve kept most of the d-line, added one or more big names, cut the worst of the bunch.
They could’ve been aggressive on OL.
They could’ve been aggressive on DB.
I’m giving Haley and Pioli the pass, for now, because a lot of the obvious things I can think of for NOW might’ve left ‘em wrong-footed a couple years down the road. Short-term urgency was ever the bane of Peterson’s dreams of a championship.
So, I’m cuttin’ ‘em some slack for the short term, hoping that THIS crew can create and maintain a contender.
hammer: I wouldn’t say that Herm wrecked the offense. Attrition wrecked the offense and Peterson couldn’t acquire decent talent, or retain it when he got lucky. Casey Wiegmann, Brian Waters, John Tait… Think of that as a core O-Line on which to build. Instead, 2 out of 3 of those guys couldn’t get outta here quickly enough, and Waters wasn’t particularly happy about staying, either!
None of that was Herm’s doing. It was mostly Carl, reaching for the brass ring, burning bridges behind him to do it, and (to REALLY mix my metaphors) watching the sand slip through his fingers the harder he squeezed.
Randy5K: I expected D to be significantly improved this season, but, although I see signs that fundamental weakness in the trenches is on the up-tick, this is still a team with a shitty defense.
Of course, this doesn’t DEFEND Haley. It just modifies the criticism slightly. *sigh*
Hammer,
Aside from not being Herm, what exacty do you feel Haley has done right so far? That’s what I can’t figure out about all you “Haley
Aid” drinkers. This team looks to be in more of a shambles than it was last year, as if that could even be possible! What’s worse, we have our starting QB playing and no where near as many injury problems as we did last year. If Haley is so great, please explain to me how that’s even possible?!! Herm kept us in most games last year, this year we’re getting demolished.
For the record, Herm took over an offense that was in the process of steadily falling to pieces. After Roaf and T-Rich left, the wheels pretty much came off. Remember how it was when Trent Green got his bell rung? Say what you will about Herm, you certainly can’t hang those problems on him because he wasn’t the one failing to make the necessary personnel changes – that was Carl’s deal. As soon as Herm did get the chance to shape the team, he did what he thought he needed to do – go young with guys like Branden Albert, Glenn Dorsey, Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr.
We’ll never know how or if that would have worked out in the long run because Clark Hunt put the kibosch on Herm’s foray into rebuilding after only one season. Just because Haley has a habit of cutting guys that were drafted during Herm’s tenure doesn’t necessarily mean that those players lacked talent. In fact, when you consider how bad this team is currently performing, it suggests just the opposite.
Also, how is running it up the gut every first down any more exciting to watch than R2P2? Did you know that we currently lead the NFL in attempts to run the ball up the gut? So much for Haley’s supposed genius at play calling!
Always love your comments hmills110
For me, I believe in the obvious, at least as I see it. Haley said in his press conference this week that a team that won 6 games in the last 2 seasons there were alot of things broken, not just bad luck. A truth. But also after taking several weeks after his hiring to evaluate the team, the broken pieces should have been identified quite easily.
Seriously underperforming personnel should have been easily flagged and a plan implimented to upgrade them; not just replace them. With FA and draft periods going by, the only “real” work happening in the draft, it leaves you scratching your head. Drafted players can take 2-3 seasons to grow into NFL caliber players if they pan out at all. Our salary cap room is beyond plentiful, and yet few true upgrades were acquired.
Don’t get me wrong, I would have loved Zach Thomas to have made the team if he were capable, but he was done last year and the Cowboys saw it. Yet somehow he was in our training camp taking up space. Isn’t that where the whole player evaluation thing should have come into play?
I still don’t get why we selected Tyson Jackson. We knew we were going to a 3-4 defense and we picked him anyway?!? We didn’t have a real NT and we picked up Ron Edwards, ok, but then he has absolutely nobody behind him.
Our O-line has been trash for several years, ask T. Green, and last years QBs (#1 & #2) went down with injuries bringing up Coastal Carolina’s Thigpen from 3rd string to starting? Yet what improvements have been made in this critical area?
Talking about skill position players is always the sexy point of analysis, but good football play starts in the trenches. Protecting the QB and bringing pressure up front are where your building blocks for future excellence reside. We can do niether with our current cast.
With all the attention being diverted right now, I cannot help but look to Scott Pioli. He was supposed to be the genius to right our ship. It would seem to date that evaluating and acquiring players which will actually HELP the team is still our weakest link.
I don’t see Haley as the problem really. Yes, he is learning. But I see many things he has done, and how he projects his mindset to the team as going in the right direction. I see our real problem as talent, or lack thereof. The “right 53″ is a fairly vague definition. But even given that, it doesn’t take a NASA employee to see numerous areas of our team screaming for an upgrade.
Who’s in charge of player acquisition again?
Children of the corn. Are their no grown ups left. Haley is here. Herm is gone. The problem at this point is talent. We lack talent! I agree that Mr Haley has made some bad moves. I agree he is on a learning curve. Think about the realistic goals before the season started. Maybe 2,4,6 wins. Mr Haley needs and OC no doubt. Firing Chan was stupid. Mr. H. needs to focus. He must control his emotions. Get over trying to be Parcell”s jr. He must remember that the last play of the game wasn’t the most important, but the next play is. The jury is out on Haley, next year will tell us what he is made of.
I say,, give Coach Haley a couple years to get us all fired up and and build a TEAM of players,,, without the burden of single self back patting individuals like Larry Johnson and Dwayne Bowe…….
I am concerned about the play call,, but it could be that he is simply throwing stuff out there, based on the lack of talent,,,hoping for a miracle,,, I don’t like seeing LJ run up the gut time after time only to gain 1, loose 3 loose, gain 2, loose 5 and I don’t know why he does that,,, maybe he is trying to keep Cassell from getting killed,, who knows but all you arm chair/upper deck play callers would likely sing a different tune standing on the sidelines holding the clipboard…….
GO CHIEFS
Haley is paid to be a professional coach. We are not. If he fails to do what he is paid to do, I absolutely believe he deserves every bit of the criticism he receives. It has nothing to do with be “arm chair/upper deck play callers.”
When Haley says he wants the “Right 53,” I am puzzled by what he means. I don’t feel that any of the guys he’s brought in to replace guys he’s let go are upgrades. If he’s looking for guys to play with heart and good attitude, that’s fine. But if it comes at the expense of having a lower level of talent, then that’s pretty un-smart. Having a team comprised of 53 Rudy’s might make for a heart-warming story, but I doubt it will win you many games in the NFL.
Criticism is fine,,, I think we all do that,, but to not offer an alternative plan is wrong,,, who would be that winning coach at this point??
OK Double D, you say Clark Hunt pulled the plug on Herm too soon because he couldn’t stomach Herm’s rebuilding plan. Yet you’re ready to pull the plug on Haley after 1 year? How can you justify one and not the other?
You trash Haley for play calling. What plays do you think can be run that don’t require a line to be able to block?
You trash Haley for personnel decisions, even saying personnel decisions are under his “direct control.” Whaa? Since when did Haley add GM to his long list of titles? He, most certainly, is not in direct control of personnel. This team is WAY undermanned, and a huge failure was made in not recognizing that. But that was ultimately not Haley’s trigger to pull, so he can’t be hanged for it.
Am I in love with Haley and the position the Chiefs are in? No. But he MUST be given another year. Otherwise what idiot would take the job here? We don’t want KC to wind up a place coaches don’t want to go (see Oak. and D.C.).
Clark Hunt’s main faults are, in my opinion, inconsistency, lack of vision, and lack of leadership. If 2-14 is a good enough reason to fire a coach after a designated rebuilding year, then, if that happens again, it ought to be a good enough reason to fire the coach after this season. But because he is inconsistent, I highly doubt he will pull the plug on Haley for having a bad season.
Play calling – how about calling a QB sneak on 4th and 2 on you own 41 in the 1st quarter – STUPID!!!! How about something a little less predictable than running it up the middle just about every down? How about trying more running and short passing plays to the outside?
Haley, as HC, decides who gets benched, who gets cut. Haley, as HC, makes coaching staff decisions – e.g. firing the OC, demoting the WR coach, etc. Haley, as HC, decides what the defensive scheme will be.
Oh, and about how much more competitve KC was in losses last season: 4 of the first 6 losses last year were by 10 or more points (same as this year), and 7 out of the 12 total losses were by 10 or more. So 5 of 12 losses were by one score or less. That ain’t competitive.
Last year saw some incredibly embarrassing pastings also (Oakland, Carolina, Tenn., Atlanta, Buffalo). Don’t remember last year too nostalgically. They weren’t all close, and even most of the ones that were were colossal collapses down the stretch (Tampa, SD).
I guess it all depends on one’s definition of competitive. Last season there were 8 games where we went into half time either tied or with a lead. I believe there were also 2 or 3 where we behind by only 3 or 4 at the half. How is that not competitive? Last Sunday, we were out of it by the end of the first quarter. And if that weren’t bad enough, SD could have easily added a couple more TDs had they so chosen.
Let me make this real simple for you. Compare last year’s defensive/offensive stats and rankings to this years. It’s no contest.
Pioli has made mistakes. Jason Brown C who signed with the Rams should have been signed by the Chiefs. We could have used our third,fourth and fifth round picks better. We got McGee,D. Washington and C. Brown. We could have had DT Terrance Knighton,DT Sammie Lee Hill in the 4th,WR Johnny Knox in the fifth
After looking at the stats, let me make this real simple for YOU. Compare the results of the first 7 games for both years:
2008 (1-6): 1 win, 2 losses by 1 score or less, 4 blowouts. Outscored by a total of 94 pts. (193-99).
2009 (1-6): 1 win, 2 losses by 1 score or less, 4 blowouts. Outscored by a total of 76 pts. (181-105).
There really is no way to say that AT THIS POINT in the season KC is worse than at the same point last year, as you have said they are. (It’s not really much better either, but it’s not worse.)
We were starting a “rookie” 3rd string QB for most of those first 7 games last year. What’s our excuse this year?
Pretty much a cluster-fuck, so far, DD. It’s pretty clear there was little intention of building on what they had on D: A nucleus of good tackles and a couple journeyman DEs. Add a dominant end to that mix, and try to get some #58 outta #91, by moving him to OLB behind a 4-man front.
A nucleus of zone-2-picked-and-trained DBs. Add a safety to that mix. Add journeyman LBs for modest upgrade there.
A nucleus of one, maybe two decent OLs. Fix the right side and interior of the line. Build around Albert, possibly starting with a pure LT and moving him inside.
One pretty good WR and a bunch of journeymen. And the one good one has bad hands… Get that fixed and add a speed guy.
With that approach, they’d've been more successful this year, with or without Cassel, and probably MORE successful in fixing the trenches.
But keeping the front 4 staffed, assuming you struck it rich @ DE, would be problematical down the road. And tough to get any depth these days in a dominant front 4. Livin’ and dyin’ by the health status of one or two guys. Shift to the 3-4 on D and switch to zone-block scheme on O should make things simpler for ‘em long-term, even though it’s definitely patchwork short-term.
I like coach Haley’s TAKE CHARGE approach,,,, much better than the overly conservative play calling of the past, I don’t want a coach that makes his decisions based on a popularity contest,, I like the fact that Haley is willing to take chances and stand by them,,, sure he is going to make mistakes and he certainly wont make everyone happy,, but that is the cost of being a great leader….
GO CHIEFS
DAMN DD STIR IT UP BABY THATS WHAT WE ARE ABOUT HERE AT AA!!!!
Plenty of tickets available in Jacksonville fo the Chiefs game-it’s 70 degrees and sunny all week-nice time to visit Florida and help the chiefs out-anybody coming to Jacksonville?
I don’t like conservative play calling because it gets you no where. Look at Jim Tressel, conservative to the max, each of his “championship” teams had great upside and in the end they ALWAYS were blown out by the NON-conservative approach teams (Florida, LSU, USC…). I like that about Haley, but this running up the middle crap 3 times in a row has got to go.
Also, I was looking at the Walterfootball 2010 Mock Draft recently and they have the Chiefs taking Brandon Spikes with the 36th overall pick. And underneath it they said, “the Chiefs need him, but he’ll probably be benched most of the season because he’s so talented…”. It was a shot at Haley and one that I had to laugh and agree with because thats what he’s done on a consistent basis.
As bad as we are, we NEED our best players out there playing together and contributing rather than being benched or cut. This year has been a nightmare of bad decisions, poor planning, and worse execution. We have a lot to sort out. I hope Haley can get it together and realize that at some point the team needs to find an identity and be unified, instead of swapping, benching, and cutting whoever on a whim. We’ll be this bad and worse until that happens.