Give Someone Else A Try

I don't think the issue is pass rush, so much as corner play, at this point. I think if the secondary were more solid, they could mix things up and do more of the kinds of thing Denver is free to do. Denver shows 6 at the line and 8 in the box all day long.

Trouble is, every time the Chiefs dial up some pressure, the quick pass is completed.

BTW I liked some of your other points, I'll address those later gotta go to bed

The best corners in the world look bad without a pass rush, can only cover a guy so long before he gets open I don't care who you are. We give QB's too long, I think Carr and Flowers are rock solid and that corner is the least of our problems. Champ Baily is still the best corner in the league, I remember a couple of years ago people were saying he wasn't top corner anymore because he got beat a couple times, which IMO was false, only reason why people started thinking that is b/c Denvers pass rush was horrid.

At RB, I think the Chiefs should go for more all-around backs. Guys built more or less like Dantrell Savage. Quick, strong, low-to-the-ground. Good hands and good brains.

Like LB, I think being GOOD at RB (LB) behind GREAT line play alongside GREAT perimeter players is the best way to go. 1st-rounders @ RB and LB come AFTER the other bases are covered.

This being said, you can see why I like your picks, although I'd be making SIMILAR picks in a more modest way. The thing about Berry is, like Polamalu, you could single him up pretty much at will, and that REALLY opens up what you can do out of the same personnel groupings. But I'd definitely be looking, as you are, to add a dominant coverage guy first and foremost (again, assuming neither Leggett nor Washington grows a brain this season).

Micjones: Alleman came in against a tired D-Line. And the defense seemed to be focused on beatin' up poor Wade Smith on the left side, even with the help of an extra TE off his left shoulder. Also, Alleman appears to be battling injuries.

All: Who is the Ax? Jackie Battle(-Axe)? He's on IR, now. This is since most of you were talkin', so it's not like you had any way of knowing, especially after we saw him ascend to #3 over Savage a week or so ago. I think Battle's been in the league 3 years, now. Is it about time to conclude he's all show and no go?

102win: I like your picks. I also like attention to O-Line, but I'd be inclined to go for dominant perimeter players more, and less inclined to spend 1st-rounder on OT, depending on Albert's state of health and performance this season. I'd be inclined to try to pick up another 2nd-rounder in a trade-down from what is likely to be a top 10 pick.

Chiefs could do PLENTY to shore up the line farther down in the draft. But then any scenario I'll paint for the draft is necessarily inferior to yours, inasmuch as yours is predicated on the highly improbable Bowe for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder, and all my scenarios start with Bowe on the "right 53."

Not interested in trading Bowe away. But the Chiefs definitely need better blocking and a true deep threat in order for him to come into his own as the #1 possession receiver in a dominant passing attack. Bowe is a player you can build on.

I think my first priorities for next year would be perimeter players. A dominant corner and a dominant WR, assuming neither are developed on-the-field this season, and there IS some great raw talent @ CB and WR on the current 53. Giving the coaching staff the push, I'm figuring at least ONE player is going to develop who's already on the roster, removing the need for one of the two or more perimeter players currently needing replacing.

I think the pass rush issues will evaporate the INSTANT the Chiefs turn the corner at DB, and just continuing to add smart 3rd- and 4th-rounders and decent FAs at LB will serve the LB corps nicely. A LB with great speed is still a liability against a good receiver in space; whereas, a shut-down corner removes the need to match up a LB against a receiver in space. Any LB you can single up against a great TE or a good WR is a LB who has no business playing LB.

daniel23: I wouldn't say Austin is a nobody. If you paid attention to goings-on in Dallas, you'd know that Austin has outstanding speed and size, and the only thing standing in his way was being snake-bitten with regard to injury. I think Leggett has quickness, speed and athleticism that are uncoachable, and MAYBE this Otis Smith thing will pay dividends on the technique side of things.

And while I'll agree that Mike Brown isn't the quickest or fastest safety in the league, there's definitely a place for him on this defense, because of his effect on the front 7. The KC D does a lot of very GOOD things in which he is instrumental, albeit invisibly most of the time, unless you look REALLY close. He's definitely facilitating some big plays for other guys and he's a surer tackler on the blitz than Pollard was.

BucktheFroncos: I think, except for MENTAL breakdowns for stupid penalties, Demorrio Williams has compared quite favorably to DJ. DJ's slow return to starter is more about him being hurt a lot and Williams playing pretty darn good. I think we'll see more of DJ this week, because I think he's getting healthier and I think Williams's brain farts probably cost him some minutes.

Shane: PARAGRAPHS! Heh. By the time the Jared Allen thing went down, this was a team in disarray. That deal was SYMPTOM, not CAUSE. Chiefs were in no position to pay franchise money. The REAL cause of the problem was failure to draft and develop many players, to the point where the ONE they DID draft and develop wanted no part of 'em.
macdawg: I think KC has pretty good pass rushers. What they can't do very well is mix it up. Every time Pendergast tries to mix it up, the corners and/or safeties let him down. KC lacks a shutdown corner, and any single coverage they show gives opposing QBs goose bumps. EVERY corner on the ballclub has exploitable weaknesses that I'm sure offensive coordinators discuss with their QB-WR corps.

Singled against Flowers with no help overtop? Go over the top. Singled against Carr or Leggett? Run the slant. Chiefs don't use safeties or LBs to knock the slot receivers and TEs off their routes, which is probably the BEST they can do for the coverage.

EXCELLENT DISCUSSION, gentlemen! Uh, daniel23? My ears are ringing from all your shouting.

Legett's the most obvious weakness in the secondary, but I think he has all the physical tools. I also think that KC lacks a SINGLE shut-down corner, which would change EVERYthing.

I think Carr has the tools and the size to be a true shut-down corner, and maybe Otis Smith will be able to tweak the mental side and turn him into something really special. I think Flowers has some liabilities nobody's mentioning, despite Manningham's total domination of him when KC played NYG.

I think DD has the DJ situation nailed. All the drama and so forth about DJ has a very simple explanation: he's soft (or at least he hasn't shown consistent toughness), and that gets you demoted on the depth chart. You get nicked and Haley will make you earn your minutes back. This ain't Martyball (Thank God).

I DO think the Chiefs should do some more "deck-chair shuffling" earlier rather than later, but be fairly systematic about it. O'Callaghan's the best they're gonna do this season at RT. Ndukwe is almost CERTAINLY an upgrade at RG. Waiting for that to develop, and see if it works, before crazy moves like Waters to C should be considered.

Fact is, Chiefs usually CAN run VERY effectively to the left side. Defenses adjust accordingly and KC can't change it up in return. Albert and Waters on the left side are the LEAST of KC's worries (assuming Albert can come back).

The weight loss IS the way to get the most outta these guys. If they're not smart or talented enough to play with proper technique, then so be it, we'll look for other guys. Albert's played better than last year, once one discounts for the state of affairs elsewhere. He's silenced some pretty good DEs this season for 'most all day 'most every game.

If Waters and Albert keep doin' what they're doin', and the right side of the line gets some punch, they'll probably turn the corner. But I think that hinges on Ndukwe earning a roster spot at RG. After that, I'd be lookin' at Niswanger.

I'm not so much a "They need time to learn to play as a unit" kinda guy. I think if you have good players, and they know their individual jobs, they will QUICKLY play well together as a unit. Sure, some finer points of communication DO develop over time, but fundamental soundness is primarily a function of each lineman doin' his damn job, and the "growing pains" we hear talked about are actually individual growing pains.

Give me the starting Pro Bowl O-Line and I'll have you a dominant offense in 2 days.

Let's compare the Gators and the Chiefs:
(My better player is in CAPS)
QB- CASSELL vs. TEBOW (Can't compare due to schemes)
RB-lj vs. MOODY
RB-j. charles vs. DEMPS
TE-ryan vs. AARON HERNANDEZ
WR-BOWE vs. thompson
WR-BRADLEY vs. cooper
LT- ALBERTS vs. patchan
LG- WATERS vs. johnson
C- niswanger vs. MAURKICE POUNCEY
RG- goff vs. MIKE POUNCEY
RT- O'CALLAGEN vs. gilbert

Defense is tougher 3-4 vs a 4-3
DE-T. JACKSON vs. CARLOS DUNLAP
DT-r. edwards vs. MARSH
DE-G. DORSEY vs. cunningham
OLB-VRBAEL-aj jones
OLB-HALI-stamper
ILB-mays vs. SPIKES
ILB-D> WILLIAMS vs. beal
CB-FLOWERS vs. jenkins
CB-carr vs. HADEN
FS-page vs. WRIGHT
SS-brown vs. BLACK

Offense FLA 5 KC 5 one tie
Deffense FLA 5 KC 5 one tie

Maybe*

dbk301,

We are talking about Jerry "MR. RIGHT NOW" Jones. If anyone has a better plan I would love to hear it, BTW we need: Three O Lineman,a WR or two,Two safeties,another corner, an inside LB, a pass rushing OLB. We could also upgrade at RB,TE and NT.

Many when we make our #2 overall pick we can just select: The Florida Gators

You aren't getting a 1,2, and 3 for Bowe. That is ridiculous. Will never happen.

We know Bowe can play. Draft picks add risk, especially when your risking replacing a young proven player. Bowes stats have a lot to do with the team he is on and situation he's been put in, in the right environment I think his stats would be pro bowl level easy.

What about addressing what was worst pass rush in NFL history last year and this year is one of the weakest pass rushers also? I've never seen a team bleeding for pass rushers so bad.

I knew trading Bowe would ruffle some feathers, but I believe a bold step must be taken. Jared Allen was the best at his position when he was traded, the same goes for Tony. Bowe was ranked 18th for rec yards in 2008. Tied for 12th in TD's. He ranked 29th in rec yards in 2007. He is one of the most overrated players around and if you can get even a first and second for him, that would help. Dallas needs a WR and Jerry would pull the trigger.

I will explain my draft (with the Bowe trade):

R1 #2 SS Eric Berry-Tennessee
R1 #16 WR Damien Williams-USC
R2 #34 OT Jason Fox-Miami
R2 #48 C Kris O’Dowd-USC
R2 #60 WR Eric Decker-Minnesota
R3 #66 FS Nate Allen-USF
R3 #80 CB/KR Javier Arenas-Alabama

We have to break the bank for an elite FA LT. (McNeil)
Our 2010 O line would be LT FA,LG Waters,C O'Dowd,RG Alberts, RT Fox.
Our two new safeties would start right out of the gate and Arenas would push Carr and at least be the nickel. This draft would deliver three KR/PR guys in Arenas,D. Williams and Decker. Two legitimate olinemen.

I believe that either Decker or Damien Williams would outperform Bowe in their career.

Thank you Micjones!!!!!!

Goff has been terrible and it was evident as soon as he left.

Niswanger sucks too. I am not seeking change for change sake. When the line changed for for the little bit, it appeared to play much better.

DD

Your losing weight point is well taken. I don't know the answer to it, but it is a good point.

Alleman should retain the RG job.
He played much better than did Goff.

Here's Shane's two cents: piss on Leggett, piss on LJ, no way we trade D-bowe, & as I have been saying, put DJ on the damn field. I DO NOT believe this horseshit about him being nicked up. That's just Haley's kind way of saying he doesn't want him playing. Makes no sense to me. As far as LJ goes, he has a terrible line as we all know, however he doesn't run with the stagger and power he once had. I say put the battle ax in and let's see what a much younger exsplosive RB can bring to the table. Leggett has been sucking from day one when he made Flacco look like Dan Marino everytime he though it in Leggett's direction. Not sure who is a good replacement other than possibly Washington. Either way, get rid of Leggett. I also find it totally absurd that everytime we find a star player(Allen for example), people say trade him for some rookies. IMO we should have never let Allen go and gained absolutely squat from his trade. We need to keep the greats and dump our trash. Either way, we watch our beloved Chiefs let every team they play break a new record while the damn donkeys go 5-0. It makes me ill!

While we are on the subject, I also happen to have some pretty big questions about the wisdom of asking your offensive linemen to lose a bunch of weight while at the same time claiming that this is going to be a run oriented offense. Facts are facts and our 2 best lineman, Waters and Albert, are clearly not what they were after losing that weight. More specifically, they don't display as much leverage as they used to and are getting beat physically as a result. Gee, I wonder if there might be a connection??

Jeremy,

Dear God!

It is almost axiomatic to say that one of the worst things you can do an offensive line is to constantly switch out personnel unless injuries demand it. Nevertheless, that is exactly what we have been witnessing just about every week since training camp began. Clearly the core philosophy you suggest is already in place and need I remind you the defition of insanity?

It takes time to develop an offensive line and linemen need to work together as a unit for that happen. Clearly, neither is happening. Perhaps a change in philosophy is in order? YA THINK!?!

Double D

The O-line configuration now has been terrible on both sides.

Doing nothing isn't working. Tweaking the line is better than the same status quo.

The problem with Brown is that he is too slow.

The biggest problem with DJ is that he is can't stay healthy - i.e., too soft.

102 has a great point that everyone seems to be ignoring. Was Leggett exploited? Sure. But the largest portion of blame for those big plays, has to lay squarely on the safeties. Page takes horrible angles and Mike Brown missed tackle after tackle. If brown makes a routine tackle on even one of those big plays, Austin doesn't hang another TD on us.

Haley and his mystery about DJ is annoying. Williams is average on his best day. I don't know that DJ would have better results, but I'm fairly certain he could do no worse. At this point, not exhausting every available option is confusing to me. Dude did make a nice play on an INT earlier this season. Stick him in on 3rd down to at least be a stand up blitzer. A fresh body couldn't hurt.

Stop it.

Does it honestly make any sense whatsoever to implement even more changes along the offensive line?

Seriously?

Jeremy, a better title for this post would have been "Deck Chairs on the Titanic." Is that Celine Dion's voice I hear faintly stirring in the background . . . ?

Trading Bowe would slow our progress not accelerate it IMO just like trading Tony G & Jared Allen slowed us down. Losing perpetuates losing and its been proven time and time again. You need pro bowl leaders on a team, if you trade anyone worth a crap your left with nothing to build on. Put Cassel & the young players around them in a situation where they can stay on the field and they might develop. 3 and outs and punting and just being generally terrible doesn't build players up. Which is why I think loosing perpetuates losing. Even 1 pro bowl caliber player could give us a spark to at least get some positive things going.

Regarding Legget, you gotta remember last year we had the worst pass rush in NFL history and this year isn't much better. This speaks volumes about Carr and Flowers IMO. Legget is Legget and he's an extra body.

Yes, I figured to start on the draft now. I agree it would hurt a little to trade Bowe, but a high wager could bring a high reward. I believe it will take three years at Pioli's rate, I want to speed up the process. Daniel23 is right about Leggett getting burnt, but where are the safeties? It is impossible to give up all these long plays (last yr and this yr), and not look to upgrade the safeties. ie Eric Berry and Nate Allen!!!!I did draft Arenas who is ranked 9th on some websites at corner, he also returns kicks.

DJ IS ON THE BENCH BECAUSE HES NOT PLAYING THE WAY HALEY WANTS THEM TO, WELL LETS SEE EVERY GAME HE PLAYED IN HE WAS MAKING PLAYS INTECEPTIONS SACKS ALL OVER THE FIELD BUT LEGGETT HAD A GOOD CAMP BUT THE WORST 5 GAME STRETCH IN DB'S HISTORY AND HES ON THE FIELD. WOW IM STARTING TO QUESTION HALEY.?

I hate to aggree with daniel23, especially since I loved his aggressive playing last year. For every great play he makes, he gives up 50 bad ones. This has to stop. Our best corner should be on THE best WR of every team we play. Flowers should have been following Austin all over the field after we got burned the first time. Clancy has to figure this out or he will be looking for another job next year, I hope anyway.

OH I FORGOT (STEVE SMITH NYG) ALSO KILLED LEGGETT I HAVE THE GAMES RECORDED ON THE DVR AND WATCHING THEM ALL I SEE IS MAURICE LEGGETT ON HIS BACK AND GETTING BURN BY AVERAGE WR'S. HAVE YOU GUYS NOTICE EVERY GAME WE PLAYED THERES A WIDE RICEVER AND A QB WITH A BREAKOUT GAME AND ALL I SEE IS LEGGETT BEING THE TARGET.

ALL THOSE CHANGES AND ALL YOU GUYS STILL HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THE GUY RESPONSIBLE FOR 4 OR THIS YEARS LOSES AND PROVABLY 5 OF LAST YEARS. MAURICE LEGGETT. THIS GUY SHOULD BE REALESED RIGHT AFTER THE COWBOY GAME, HE GOT KILLED BY DERRICK MASON, THEN BY DeSEAN JACKSON THEN AGAIN BY A NOBODODY MILES AUSTIN FOR 250? Seriously WOW WHY SOMEBODY TELL ME WHY IS HE EVEN ON THE FIELD AFTER HALF TIME WHEN IT'S CLEAR EVERY QB IS LOOKING FOR HIM HES EVERY OPPOSING QB'S BEST FRIEND. PLEASE SHIP HIM OUT OF HERE AND WE WILL WIN A GAME

102:

Glad to see you back and still churning out the trade proposals. I think it would be a mistake to trade Bowe. We are sorely lacking young impact players and he could be one of those players for us. Nice to see you addressing the offensive line in your picks.

I agree we should rotate some guys in, however we need a serious infusion of talent. How to do that- trade the one guy that would bring the largest return. Bowe to the cowgirls for their 1,2,3 round picks in 2010. I would rather win one game and know that we are building for the future, than win the three games we will win with Bowe.
Draft:

R1 #2 SS Eric Berry-Tennessee
R1 #16 WR Damien Williams-USC
R2 #34 OT Jason Fox-Miami
R2 #48 C Kris O'Dowd-USC
R2 #60 WR Eric Decker-Minnesota
R3 #66 FS Nate Allen-USF
R3 #80 CB/KR Javier Arenas-Alabama

I think Jerry would do it, and we would gain D. Williams,a Center and Nate Allen. I think we would have our Safeties set for the next ten years. Five game changing guys with two o lineman. We would need to sign an OT, WR and two LB's. If this all played out, we would be a MUCH better team next year.

I don't agree with the DJ trade. If anyone needs to go its LJ. If they were trying to boost his pathetic trade value I'd say they've sunk it for good. LJ needs to be shown the door and thrown out of it. God knows it'd take him 10 years to make it there if he ran.

We need a lot of help on D. Too much to let DJ go. The middle seems to be conveniently wide open every 3rd and 25 for a 70 yrd TD about 9/10 times each game. Shocked that hasn't been exploited more. Our front 4 are getting torn apart by the run and our only bright spot (surprisingly), is Hali, who is a freakin' beast! If only we still had Jared Allen...

Waters hasn't played center in a long time. I don't see moving him mind-season.

Why trade DJ? Instead of trading him we should be playing him. I don't believe DJ is really hurt or as Haley keeps telling us he is nicked up. Not sure what the deal is except when he has been on the field he looks great. If we trade him I would want more help on the O-line rather than another reciever. That's just Shane's opinion. I definately think we should let the ax take over for LJ. I think he could be awesome if giving a chance. Thoughts?

I live in western Pennsylvania ,so most of the NFL fans around me are Steeler goofballs and they would probably give away Sweed for free because he`s had a bad case of the drops ...

How about trade DJ for Limas Sweed. See if a change of scenery does both of them some good. I saw that they are both rumored to be available prior to the trade deadline.