NFLN analyst Jamie Dukes just tweeted this on his Twitter. Found it interesting:
Here’s a good conversation between Singletary, Woodson and Myself that will not make the air.
I told the coach that the Tampa 2 D makes robots out of players. I.E. it does not encourage learning offensive concepts.I told the coach that the Tampa 2 D makes robots out of players. I.E. it does not encourage learning offensive concepts.
As a player, Singletary was a student of the game and he agreed with my premise.
FYI, this is why the Patriots are so successful because they put a premium on smart players who can make adjustments on the field.FYI, this is why the Patriots are so successful because they put a premium on smart players who can make adjustments on the field.
Now, since we played the Tampa 2 last year and are moving to a Patriots-style 3-4 where does this leave our defense? Honestly, I’m not sure.
I think Bernard Pollard and Jarrad Page are good enough players to play in nearly any system. In fact, I think both of them are instinctive players who will likely perform better outside of the Tampa 2. Clancy Pendergast did a great job with Adrian Wilson, so I expect both of our young safeties to flourish. Our young corners, Brandon Carr and Brandon Flowers, are young enough to get out of any “robot” habits they picked up playing for Herm Edwards last year. The secondary should be fine in due time.
Derrick Johnson and the rest of the holdovers? It’s hard to say, but I do think Demorrio Williams is one guy who could flourish with the system change. Anybody else remember Bob Gretz reporting that he was damn near unblockable lining up with a hand down D.T. style? Remember him as a Husker? That’s not so different than a 3-4 rushbacker. Call me crazy (or stupid, lol), but Demorrio could end up being the most-improved Chiefs holdover.
Regardless, I hate the Tampa 2, so this is a good thing. I absolutely agree that football is instinctive and that players cannot be robots.
Addicts, thoughts on the defensive system transition?
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Our defenses have been so bad for so long (even before Herm Edwards) that I welcome this change (any change) 100%.
It got Obama elected!
Tampa 2 is also based on having Warren Sapp, a 1-in-a-million talent, wreaking havoc in the middle. We mortals can’t base our defenses on such premises.
But yeah. It always seemed to me like the Chiefs wanted robots in the secondary and didn’t scheme to let their players play instinctively. It was ironic to hear how Cunningham ‘n’ Co were working miracles with their young safeties, when they were just setting them up as scapegoats for systemic failures.
When I think Tampa 2, I think Ronde’ Barber, and when I think of him, it’s not as a robot. He was great at making the break on the ball or timing a teeth-rattling hit. But KC just kept on signing press-coverage bodies and asking them to play man-off coverage, with too little experience or natural ability to do so. Or worse, expecting tight man coverage, but denying them the jam.
Agreed. I’m excited to see what Demorrio Williams can do. I thought he made some plays last year. I think we should let him loose and let him get after the QB.
Tamba might improve standing up as well. Its sure gonna be an interesting season, thats fo sho.
Nice post Adam. Haven’t heard much from you lately. I have not been commenting much recently, but I just took my very last college exam this morning, so hopefully I will have a little more time available. I really like the “smart player” aproach. It is going to be alot of fun to see who steps up and who gets left behind. Let the games begin.
Mark me down for hating the Tampa 2. I understand it, I just don’t like passive defenses. You are right, brains is a big requirement for playing in the systems Pioli seems to favor.
The good thing about DJ is he has too much talent to play any worse than we have seen him play. If anything he will at least have a slightly better year than last, espesially with Thomas and Vrable quarterbacking that D.
Is it even legal to have a robot defense?
LMAO! I believe robots are prohibited in the current CBA, but will become legal in the un-capped year. Pretty sure the robots would actually be cheaper.
“Passive” is the key word. Who isn’t tired of this “passive” crap we’ve watched every year this decade? Maybe not every year, but you get my point. Something has to change, and this new scheme sounds perfect. I’d love to see us pull some of that organized chaos that Pitt and Baltimore roll with every year!
I hope they keep this young secondary unit together. The more they play together the more they’ll learn to feel out where they need to be, building trust with each other and becoming a true UNIT. Just like the Ravens and the Steelers. Can you imagine our long lost, no holds barred, ugly (as in BAD A**), smashmouth D restored? Gets me hot in the pants just thinking about it.
I don’t know how much Dick Lebeau just lets ‘em play or how scripted that Steeler D is. But I do remember a day when it seemed that Derrick Thomas was just playing instinctively, deciding on a whim what gap he was going to attack, and forcing offenses to adjust.
I also agree that I’m sick of passive play in the secondary.
Was it Babbs or Teicher who wrote:
Dorsey, as the Chiefs move to a 3-4, appears to be a man without a position. Now, the Chiefs are saying that maybe he’s going to play some at end.
If the Chiefs were confident he could do that, I don’t think they would have spent their top two draft picks on defensive ends. That’s what Tyson Jackson and Alex Magee will end up doing, so we’ll see what role there is for Dorsey.
Taken from http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1181090.html
Am I the only one who sees the Chiefs trying to round out the 3-4 DE rotation? Seems to me like we want all the DT/DE ‘tweeners we can get. If we hadn’t picked up Magee, I would’ve been wondering about DE depth in the new scheme. I think Boone might be able to do some inside-outside moving, too.
Am I the only one who thinks the switch to 3-4 is more suited to the players we already had and could most easily acquire? Am I the only one who sees Jackson and Magee as logical moves to solidify the middle? Don’t know for sure if they’ll pan out, but the things I most wanted to ensure happening are the things these two players scout as most likely to provide… Still would’ve wanted Ron Brace to add to the NT equation.
Am I the only one who sees the KC D get bigger and stronger? Hali and McBride bringing DE tendencies to LB. Now, instead of 2 DTs and two DE/LB ‘tweeners up front, there are going to be 3 real widebodies in the middle cutting the field in half. Our smallest LB will be Zach Thomas at 242 lbs, 20 lbs heavier than Edwards.
The one thing I don’t see, unless Edwards and Tyler can manage NT, is a true Gilbert Brown to seal the deal in the very center. That’ll be something to watch for. Might be closer to what I want than it seems, with the emphasis Pioli’s placing on core body strength and STOUT in his d-line selections. Be interesting to see if Edwards and Tyler enter the season closer to 350 than 300. And who knows? Might a NT fall to us all unexpected-like?
Anyhoo, I don’t see the drafting of Jackson and Magee as signalling the imminent departure of Dorsey. I see it more as trying to create situations on the field to get the most out of him, and Tamba Hali, for that matter.
I’m all for the jiu-jitsu thing with Hali. I expect to see him coming back stronger for his size than he was, and with a little better technique with his hands. It all good.
Jared Allen was also training in MMA his last off-season with us. He said it put him in the best shape of his life, so this could be a good thing. I was also thinking that I wouldn’t mind picking up Plaxico Burress. He would kind of be like a poor man’s version of Randy Moss ( a Cassel favorite), and also cheaper than Boldin. I know he had a mental lapse with the whole gun thing, but I really don’t view him as some kind of thug. I don’t think he’ll be making a mistake like that again. The idea of getting Boldin just has too much of a Madden ‘09 fantasy feel to it, and I don’t think it will ever happen.
The Tampon 2 defense caused much confusion and tentative play amongst the players on the field. Instead of playing aggressively, last year players were still trying to figure out, “am I supposed to be here, or am I supposed to fill there”. We got burned big time game after game in the middle, because there was no one there to cover the slants/crossing patterns. The Tampon 2 is an archaic piece of crap. Hmills110 is exactly right, it might work if you have a young Warren Sapp on the field. But mostly, offensive coordinators have learned to pick apart the Tampa 2 very effectively. With our young guys last year, it must have been overwhelmingly discouraging to have offensive coordinators exploit the weaknesses of the Tampa 2 week after week. No in game or week to week adjustments were made, just the same dismal performance week by week which was largely the coaches fault.
This year should be much different. Nothing succeeds like success. As our young players get more confidence playing in a decent scheme, they will realize that they CAN play very well at this level. Look for our defense to start teeing off on people. It may not happen the first couple of weeks, but as they gain more confidence in each others play, it will happen. I can’t wait……
Huh? Robot? . . . Like that stupid thing on Fox??
Little off topic but looking to 2010 draft (I know its stupid but…) couldn’t you see us taking Brandon LaFell? We need a WR, he is 6-3, 209, and of course…. plays at LSU! Four straight years bitches! Ha Ha!
Considering who we have to face and who and what we so far have (or should I say don’t have?) to work with this season, I don’t think it is in any way too early. Yeah. Another top 5 pick seems to be on the horizon. I’m lately thinking Go Royals.
I completely agree about Demorrio. He has the speed and “tweener” size that makes him ideal in the new scheme. I’m thinking that was a big reason why Pioli didn’t move back into the 2nd round to get Brown or Barwin; the cost of such a move wouldn’t provide enough of an upgrade over Williams to make such a move worthwhile. Williams has the heart and dedication that Pioli looks for in his players. He is very quick off the ball and fast; pin his ears back and let him get nasty after the QB. In the 2, he looked completely lost along with everyone else. Zone coverage wasn’t his strength. Tampa 2 is dead even with the ideal players. Too easy to shred with a West Coast O.
Look for Dorsey to blow up like Darnell Dockett in Pendergast’s D. DJ and Dansby have a similar skill set; he can be comparable as well.
It is exciting to think about the players we’ve been watching and rooting for getting the opportunity to play (hopefully) in a system that makes sense to them (and us).
We were too small at DE and LB, and now we’re suddenly pretty big at both, with the switch to 3-4 and the drafting of a couple of widebodies.
Man….i hate Jamie Dukes so much…he is such a tool…
Heh. Sometimes. I’m getting the sense that he evaluates the big men pretty well.
I really like Jamie Dukes. He’s never afraid to speak his mind and go against the grain. Just because something is pretty much consensus doesn’t mean he’ll automatically agree with it.
Well, Adam should be happy at last — we signed Crabtree after all:
Tom Crabtree (TE, 6-5, 244) played in 48 games at Miami (Ohio) where he was a teammate of Chiefs seventh-round draft pick, TE Jake O’Connell. Crabtree caught 40 passes for 329 yards (8.2 avg.) with two TDs during his collegiate career for the RedHawks. The Carroll, Ohio native posted a school-record 54 receptions for 851 yards as a senior at Bloom-Carroll High School.
from kcchiefs.com
Even odds he’s faster than the other one.
I know this doesn’t EXACTLY pertain to this post, but the Rams released LB Pisa Tinoisamoa, their leading tackler from last year. He’s been prone to injury so that may be why Spags let him go. But he’s only 27, had 104 tackles last year, 88 of which were SOLO, so he has some skills. He’s not a sack artist, only 3 last year, still, when he’s healthy he contributes big. Any chance we go after him?
well given what we have done so far this offseason i dont foresee any noteable transaction/moves from here on out
zman: I disagree. I think KC’s going to go after one of the WRs out there.
Quazzimoto: Sometimes those LB injuries and big tackle totals are a sign of good LB, bad team. I’d give him a look. Don’t know anything about him, myself.
bbq: I don’t always agree with Dukes. But I’ve always liked him. There’s a well of good humor deep in his heart and it comes through. And I love when he goes into snooze mode the instant they start talking about kickers.
Mills: bad team is right. I like the age, and the stats from last season are strong. Curious why he’d be released when he’s the team’s “best” defender? Doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t know a whole lot about the guy either, just picked up some things here and there online…what WR do you have in mind? Burress is an option, although he doesn’t exactly scream in the “smart” department. Who else could give us that extra boost as a legit deep threat though?
I made a mistake on Tinoisamoa’s numbers. Instead of 104, he pulled in 135. I know, 104 looks a lot like 135 =) He led the team in tackles his 1st 3 seasons. Then in ‘06, he broke his left hand and had a dislocated elbow, and in ‘07 broke his right hand and suffered from a bad ankle sprain.
This comes from SeattlePI.com:
“The Rams selected Tinoisamoa in the second round of the 2003 NFL Draft. In his first season, he became the first Rams rookie to lead the team in tackles when he made 121 stops.
After playing every game in his first three NFL seasons and leading the club in tackles each year, Tinoisamoa missed five games because of injury in 2006 and missed seven games in 2007.
The six-year veteran from Hawaii has 661 tackles, including 418 solo, with 10 sacks and seven interceptions in his career.”
When he’s healthy this guy is a monster ILB. Whether we go after him when he may be seen as “injury prone” and when we have Vrable and Thomas I don’t know. But I would think he’d merit a good long look for sure.
Quazz: Zach Thomas has had his share of concussions, too. Except for “reaching” for Tyson Jackson, guys like Tinoisamoa are the kind of experienced players you love to have on the depth chart.
Might get political, with proud vets like Thomas resenting losing minutes, but I think one way you protect your LBs is to rotate them early and often. That was one of the problems with Cunningham’s ideas – always reaching for a star, and the wheels come off when he’s riding the pine, and he’s more likely to be riding the pine, because your dependence on the one guy wears him down.
Wasn’t that long ago that Ray Lewis’s career took a dip, when Baltimore was between d-lines. This new philosophy on D could turn KC into a LB mecca.
I think a lot depends on what this Tinoisamoa wants in terms of paycheck, and what the Chiefs need to keep in reserve for any (any?) WR moves they make in the coming weeks.
this year we will see a huge rotation on the d-line… keeping this many d-line players will allow us to find who works best,
remember we got bigger on the o-line as well we added some talent, getting more holes on the line for our runing backs, and some extra time for the QB, to find receivers…piolli may think we can stand pat at wideout for this year anyways.
for me I am looking at this year as the switch, the year we see what we have coming for our future.
they know the line is where to start a rebuild , so if it took drafting d-line instead of o-line so beit…
who ever marks his name on defense this year , will decide who we draft next year…I still say we draft oline, a another strong deffensive player next year.
Mills: My thoughts exactly. Thomas and Vrable are not going to be around for long, but act as viable pieces of the clockwork we’re building on D. Seems like adding experienced, younger talent to the cog would only aid in helping that cause. His stats make him seem like a sound presence, whether he is or not I can’t say. I’m thinking he’s similar to Foote, maybe better tho?
Redbeard: Think you hit the nail on the head. Line is the way to build towards a brighter tomorrow, and we seem to be doing some of that on D for sure. We could stand to use some more OL talent, and I don’t think another WR is out of the question. I like our secondary. They’re a strong, young core, that will only get better with time.
However, I keep looking at next year and what that draft has to offer. Pioli will almost always draft defense in the 1st round, and Eric Berry and Taylor Mays are exceptional talents at Strong Safety. George Selvie is no slouch in my opinion either. It’ll be interesting to see what other acquisitions we make thru free agency and what we’re able to do this season.
I do think the team that wee have is the team we have for 09-10 season but if something were to be done it would be with AZ and Boldin
quazzi. thats partly what I was meaning with our secondary… on *D* we have linemen and linebackers…we will most likely carry plenty this year…our secondary needs to show they can handle any switch to what they do now….if they dont a safety strong or free wouldnt be out of the question…as will linebacker next year, too.
we have now got a couple run blocking Tight Ends…cant wait to see what they can bring us this year.
and if we dont get the wideout to sit left of the line this year with the uncapped year next season we can get one then, and people we may have a wideout already… who knows…
Sippio is there as well and yardage after a catch can do wonders as well…
maybe they saw something in another wideout as they were very quick to cut who we already had at wideout.
talent also makes the cover two…look at indy , now take away the strong saftey…
look at denver with there old bend but dont break
and take away there safeties…
I’m more of a “Break the offense” defense guy. Coaches fear the big scoring play, and it does get the crowd going, but how many times have we seen high-flying offenses peter out in a game, because the opposition could sustain drives?
Denver’s old bend-don’t-break was hard to score TDs against in the red zone, but they gave up a fair number of quick TDs, and then turned right around and went on a 5 or 7 or 10 minute scoring drive of their own. Those quick scores put the D right back on the field.
So I tend to like something that gets a high percentage of 3-and-outs, even if it gets burned now and then. Seems to me that when the offense ONLY has the long ball, you start trading 3-and-outs and interceptions with those long TDs.
But I’m definitely in the minority. I just hate seeing the D giving up a bunch of underneath running and passing plays that move the chains…
I hear you mills I agree with you, I was only saying that with the better cover two defs’ out there talent makes them work.not the scheme.
Otherwise you get the cover two that cant do this or that…
the 3-4 or the 43 under both can utilise a cover two formation, and a man formation…
what makes the big difference is the overall performance…and how good the front seven are…
when we watch the preseason watch for 4 down two linebackers and 3 corners or two safties…
with this formation, thrown in on early downs, confusion can erupt… flowers seems to me the ideal player as the extra back, he is way fat enough to rush in and so good at reading that he can fall out and cover , also he can roam around .
it works in 3rd and short if they add a lineman to it in a standing stance to get another big body in there. as he can slide side to side as the offence slides
basically what I was saying is that, in a 3-4,or
in a 4-3 under , it is way easier for our def. to confuse and hide coverages…by throwing in the nickle def. quite often.
for those new to coverages
mainly it is who covers who in the different coverages…and who covers who in the different schemes.
I personally love a great 3-4 straight up…
mixing in the 4-3 under.
if D.Thomas could have learned early on how to cover…our deffence back then would have been ten times as good as it was.