JoePo Defends Herm…And Fails

COME ON ERIC WE NEED ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR KILLER SCOOPS!!!

Adam-

On a related note to this JoeP Herm defense, I think its funny that Joe set out to do this column and was bound and determined-gripping-his-pen! to defend Herm and found out early in the writing process that this was an exercise in futility. He is just shoveling dirt on himself and his argument the entire time until the reader decides to piss in that grave. Shame on you Joe, this looks like your first draft with comments from the editor.

kcdan thats all i was going for. we are same paging it here

The thought of one year of Herm terrifies me. Then again, me without Harm is kind of like the Joker with out Batman. Harm...you...complete...me!

Kevin Harlan had an interesting scenario. Pioli takes the job, keeps Herm one more year to honor the rebuilding mode that Clark signed off on, thenn if he can't make significant improvements in the team, fire him then. Shanny, Cowher, and Holmgren will be looking to get back in the game. Hmmm...

thats gunny's fault. dorsey head up!? he should play gaps! LBs? where'd they go? 10 sacks!? come on, its past him by. talent is there minus 2 or 3 guys

He has had plenty of input on the last 3 drafts and we see how those have turned out for us. Look at all of his draft picks that we have starting on the league's worst defense.

http://en.gravatar.com/

That will take care of you, Mad Martigan.

i say one more year. let him have input on the draft and if he doesn't work next year, fir in mid season or at end. side note: how do i upload a pic?

Four more years?!?!??!! Ulp I threw up a little in my mouth

Adam, you are a good man, but you are completely wrong about Herm. I tried to tell you how wrong you were about Sippio, and you wouldn't listen. It's deja vu all over again LOL.

Believe in Herm!

Herm in 09!

4 more years!

OH and we werent learning.

Im glad you and Zach didnt throw shit at the bigscreen Adam. In high school I really liked my history teacher, my absolute favorite. I didnt learn shit in that class. He should have been fired and finally was. It didnt mean crap that the "students liked him" which they all did. He wasnt teaching.

No good GM would come here if they had to carry Herm Edwards' deadweight. No need to source anything but common sense.

All I know is that Herm Edwards had one of the worst challenges I have ever seen in the Cincy game. Zach and I had to restrain ourselves from throwing shit at his bigscreen.

And there's a silver lining TO EVERYTHING. I refuse to give credit to a guy who lost 22 of his last 25 games or whatever. This is getting asinine.

No offense but my guess is that they're sourcing their asses. Seems to me that a lot of these "sports talk" guys are generally more prone to gossip than report.

I have no idea who their sources are. I'm not sure if they said it was coming from the Pioli side or from Arrowhead. I was only listening on my 20 minute drive home from work.

dbk - how would they know that? Who are their sources?

If you are listening to the radio around KC this afternoon they are saying a sticking point in negotiations with Pioli is his insistence that he have control over who is the coach. It will make me sick to my stomach if we lose out on Pioli because Clark won't let him give Herm his walking papers and pick his own coach. If that is the case we will never get any GM worth having.

DD:

Very good point about bringing up the Jets. The Jets were the team we were most compared to. They did have a better year, but I like our future much better than theirs.

Clock management and calling timeouts has zip to do with our offense disappearing in the second half of just about every game or our defense folding on just about every 3rd and long. Also on challenges, maybe I'm way off but my recollection is that we got those right a helluva lot more often than we missed on them.

Herm is far from being a dream coach. Frankly, Hank Stram wasn't one either. Few are. As far as I'm concerned, it's not so much about who is the best coach but rather who is the right coach at the time. Shanny gave Elway a running game and defenses that could keep him on the field to do his thing. I tend to doubt either could have won any Superbowls without the other.

This year was ugly and Herm deserves considerable blame (Croyle, team conditioning, absence of free agent talent) for that. The other side of it is that this year was not a complete disaster - a lot of good will eventually come of it and it is only fair to say that Herm should be due much of the credit when it does. For now though, it appears he is destined to be next among the sacrificial lambs serving as propitiation for the eventual redemption of this team. I find it a bit unfortunate that so many people apparently don't see this more clearly.

The Jets were very active in free agency. Where did that get them? Between the Jets and the Chiefs, which team would you say is further along the path towards creating a football dynasty? I know the answer to that, do you? If Parcells ends up leaving the Phins after only one year, one might be justified in posing the same question.

I do have a big knock on injuries and not finishing games. It's called lack of proper conditioning and Herm & his staff seem to suck at it. My guess is that's Herm's chances of sticking around for another year are no better than 75:25 against right now but only stand to improve the longer it takes Clarkie to land a new GM.

I will argue until I'm blue in the face that youth was the right approach for this season and that few are better equipped to develop young players with than Edwards. What concerns me more than Edwards leaving is that his replacement will be given at least two years slack to put a competitive team on the field and God only knows if the new guy will succeed much less how he intends to go about doing it. That scares me quite a bit and should scare just anybody that cares about and follows the progress of this team.

If a new HC results in another complete overhaul of player personnel and more lost time, I won't be pissed at whoever Herm Edwards' replacement happens to be. My venom will be directed solely at one Clark Hunt because it would he mean he is somebody can't be trusted and basically doesn't have a clue.

I can't believe you think the coach doesn't matter.
Clock management? That has to do with the talent of the linebackers? Incredible. You can't defend his lack of game time/situation skills.
New England - blown W
Jets - blown W
Tampa Bay - blown W
SD - blown W
New Orleans - potential W (with clock management practices)
Denver - blown W
San Diego II - blown W
Miami - potential W

That's 8 W's that were lost in the 4th quarter take away 2 of those for shits and giggles and
we're 8-8
San Diego is 6-10
Denver is 7-9
and the Raiders don't matter.

Bottom line is that we had the talent to win games we just didn't have the coaches to make it possible for the players - dumb challenge calls, dumb time outs on defense (3rd and long for the opposing offense time outs - STUPID... poor preparation

I rambled and I apologize... because Adam, like you, my blood boils when people feebly attempt to defend Harm.

The difference is that Herm and Gunther saw them play everyday. It's also their job, not mine. My only "agenda" is to accurately communicate what I observe when it comes to our Chiefs. That's it. Well, that and making people A.) think and B.) laugh.

I think about 25-28 of the current head coaches would have done better, especially in those seven games Herm lost late.

Additionally, it is Herm's own effing fault as far as the talent and injuries go!!!! He choose to ignore free agency like a complete moron.

Defending Harm at this point is as laughable as defending Dubya. I can't believe this is still going on. What a joke.

The strength / weakness of any defense completely hinges on the play of its linebackers. Except for perhaps me, just about everybody around here claimed our LBs would be the biggest strength of the Chiefs 2008 defense. Seems to me though the exact same people previously so high on our backers are now choosing to blame Herm and Gunther for the failure of the unit. Funny how things can get so twisted around after a few months to suit an agenda, huh?

I challenge anybody to name any HC and DC that could have done a better job with the talent (and injuries) we had this year - you might think you can but the reality is you can't. But that doesn't matter much does it because any change after a bad season is always a change for better, right? Sure.

Give our defense a couple of key pieces that they lacked this season and I can almost guarantee you they will be able compete as well as anybody's defense. I'll be particularly interested in seeing who we land through free agency 2 or 3 months from now - that will be the biggest factor in determining whether this defense improves regardless of who the coaches are.

The Hammer can't wait to see the last of Herm Edwards fading into the sunset to spoil someone else's football team. Herm would make a great defensive secondary coach or perhaps a college head coach. If he gets another job as a pro he will continue to coach the laughing stock of the NFL. At least when he is gone, it won't be us.

Enough....

Herm will be gone and we can attack someone new soon...

Adam, you need to take those victories when you can my friend. I don't think I've tried to dunk since that time I broke both my arms. OK so I lied about the athletic skills....and the muscles. At least I've got my Wii.

Sorry, Dakota Dave. You put the first three nails in, I just came with the thunder on the fourth one. Your list was fantastic. And I wouldn't expect anybody to agree with me all the time.

Better a late bloomer at 30 than a has-been at 30 like me. I might be in good shape, but ALL my athletic skills left with my knees 10 years ago. I did basically dunk in street clothes on my 30th B-Day. I think the sports gods were just giving me one last hoorah. Put a fork in this old man!

Jeez Adam, your such a thunder stealer! That was my longest post ever, and you go and follow up my 10 point argument with a 10 point argument!

I agree with you about half of the time, but I'm with you on this one.

By the way, I did not play college ball (or high school ball). I didn't develop all these bulging muscles and crazy athletic skills until I turned 30.

And, yes, this is what happens when somebody stands up for a 15-33 coach that says his record speaks for himself, kind of in a nasty fashion I might add.

DOGPILE!

dbk301, thanks for props and great comment, man!

As far as liking a coach, that doesn't matter. When I was at KSU all the players hated Bill Snyder, yet they won 11 games four years in a row, which is impossible anywhere, ESPECIALLY Manhattan, KS. It's more important that they respect, hell, even fear their coach. That's what I think. After all, this is basically their boss. They don't worry if our bosses like us.

Besides, I'm not in the business of coddling multimillionaire coaches and players. Honestly, lots of times I think we suffer more than they do. Win or lose, most of them are still at least wealthy, if not rich, and many are also famous, setting them up well for the rest of their lives. Look at the Dallas Cowboys laughing and singing on the plain ride home from Philly. Do you think 'Boys fans were laughing and singing. No, neither do I.

Enough pity for Harm. Off with his head already. At least he made millions of us sucking. The rest of us lost money. Unless we were wise enough to beat against our beloved Red and Gold.

Thank you for being the voice of sanity Adam. To me it is beyond comprehension how anyone can defend Herm. He took over the team and completely disrespected his mentor Vermeil for playing "Arena Football" and blamed our great offense for our defense sucking. Then he says we are going to play defense. He hand selects every starter on defense this year other than DJ and we end up with the worst defense in the NFL. He says he wants to go young and rebuild. That is great, but then he refuses to sign any FA's and goes with ONLY young guys. He is in denial so badly that he says the rebuilding is 85% done. When asked if he is worried what the new GM will think about the last game against the Bengals he says hopefully the GM will look at 3 years and how he wasn't going to stand up and defend himself because his record speaks for itself. He is freaking 15-33. His record does speak for itself. It is screaming that he is a terrible coach. At this point I absolutely cannot stand him. I don't care if the players like him. The players in Dallas really like Wade Phillips and we see where that has got them. I just wish Clark would have done the right thing and fired Herm when he canned Carl. Instead he is going to leave it to the new GM and the longer this thing goes on the more likely the chance the Herm stays. I just puked in my mouth after typing that last sentence. Herm has to go.

I'll end on a positive note. I'm new to this forum and it is really refreshing to find so many intelligent and passionate Chiefs fans and to have a place to openly discuss our favorite team. Great site guys.

I do like Harm in his ability to pick talent in the draft. I just don't like how he puts them on the field. He is his own worse enemy. This guy never gets a break at QB. I just don't see how our defense has just totally stunk up the FREAKIN place every week for the past 5 years. Our defense did suffer a shit load of INJURIES at LB. The young players did play hard this year.

I wonder how much CONTROL he had in free agency last year with King Karl?

I want a defensive minded coach when Harm does get kicked to the curb. I personally like the guy, but o well. I say we keep Gailey!!!!

Fire Gunther now!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. The team was supposed to suck.

The team wasn't supposed to get two games worse, nearly three if it hadn't of been for Oakland effing up worse than we did out in the Bay.

2. Young players were supposed to play - and they did.

It was Herm who made the foolish decision to not sign any veteran free agents. Good ones, at least.

3. The players played hard.

Oh, yeah, they really played hard for coach Edwards out in Cincinnati, even though they knew it would probably be his last game. For the sarcastically challenged, they laid an egg up in Cincy.

4. The players didn’t openly revolt after the season like they did in Gunther’s last year as HC.

The players didn't revolt in Detroit this year either. Full scale mutinies aren't common. Besides, since when was "the players didn't revolt" a positive for a coach. That's kind of like saying "the crackheads didn't overdose" or something. I dunno. Just a terrible point of defense.

5. Injuries, injuries, injuries

Think the Chargers didn't have injuries? Or every other team still playing? It's football -- people get hurt!

6. Herm showed he will pass the ball if it will score points

Only because he feared losing every single remaining game, and if it weren't for the Oakland game he still would have.

7. 80% (at least) of these “hot” coordinators who are supposed to be the next big HC end up sucking.

Yeah, like Mike Smith who took the Falcons to 11 wins and the playoffs.

8. All the veteran coaches are retired or not interested (ie Cowher)

Do we really want a retread coach with nothing to prove who's just coming back for one last fat payday?

9. Changing coaches will set back the rebuilding

This is the biggest freakin' Chiefs myth of all, and, honestly, it makes my blood damn near boil. This isn't college, people. Rebuilding takes a year or two max. Then again, if we continue to be one of the only teams that ignores free agency and continue bringing in classes of newbies like college programs then maybe the rebuilding project will take that long. I hate this myth. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami. You can turn it around overnight if you aren't scared to admit and let go of your screw-ups and move forward. That may involve cutting the chord on many of the youngsters in our front seven. So be it.

10. Herm is known league wide as being good with young players and we figure to still be one of the youngest teams next year.

He should go coach in college. The days of rah-rah motivating are over by the pros. Besides, even in college a lot of times it's the coordinators and other coaches who motivate. I know -- I played some college ball back in the day.

Love ya, Maine, but I can't tolerate people standing up for this clown on the Addict. Yes, I called him a clown. He got paid millions to finish the demolition job on our Chiefs, and he did a helluva job. Luckily, he was so bad that he just ripped off the band-aid and sped up the healing process, which will start with a new GM, coach, free agents and the No. 3 pick. I'm sure he's a good guy, but I don't feel bad bringing the heat at him. Not with his salary. He should go back to San Diego St. or somewhere and coach. We'd all be better off.

There...I feel better.

DO NO HARM!

I was a Herm supporter until the second San Diego game. At some point you have to look at the results and see them for what they are.

Maine -

1. The team was supposed to be improved. If the team was supposed to suck, Herm should have been fired last last year.
2. Young players are almost all we have left.
3. The players better play hard, or they don't deserve a job in the NFL.
4. The players like Herm, that doesn't make him a good coach.
5. Have you ever questioned the conditioning program? This is not a new problem for Herm.
6. Herm made a very obvious adjustment. The problem is it took him 22 games to figure it out.
7. This statement is just false. Almost all head coaches in the NFL were "hot" coordinators previously in there careers.
8. Not everyone thinks a veteran coach is the best answer. And there will be plenty of coaches interested.
9. This is the one that completely floors me. We won 2 games this year. WE WON TWO GAMES THIS YEAR! We are already set back as far as we can go!
10. Unless it translates to wins, does it really matter?

Maine, I'm not trying to attack you. Not that long ago I was in your camp. But the patterns that developed on game day are not defendable. We could have, and probably should have won this division this year.

I believe Herm is his own worst enemy. His ball control philosophy is something that would work great with a veteran team, but we all know he prefers the young guys. It just doesn't jive. The thing he most wants at the end of games is the one thing he can't get his young players to deliver.

At this point, I believe the only thing that will set back the rebuild would be to keep Herm and his staff for another year.

Well here's one Herm supporter not afraid to hide. I could go into a long spiel here saying why Herm should be back but I will keep it short and simple.

1. The team was supposed to suck.
2. Young players were supposed to play - and they did.
3. The players played hard.
4. The players didn't openly revolt after the season like they did in Gunther's last year as HC.
5. Injuries, injuries, injuries
6. Herm showed he will pass the ball if it will score points
7. 80% (at least) of these "hot" coordinators who are supposed to be the next big HC end up sucking.
8. All the veteran coaches are retired or not interested (ie Cowher)
9. Changing coaches will set back the rebuilding
10. Herm is known league wide as being good with young players and we figure to still be one of the youngest teams next year.