The Rebuilding Umbrella – How Much Harm Is Enough?
My Chiefs apathy grows from week to week, as our Head Addict Adam put it in his recent vlog, somehow Harm Edwards has managed to “snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.”
Tyler Thigpen can go out there and play like Drew Brees and we can rush for 100 yards, score 27 points and still lose. The common denominator? Herm Freaking Edwards. Harm Edwards.
My question to you, fellow Chiefs fans, is how much Harm is enough? How long must we deal with Herm wrecking our team and tunneling it further into the ground before we storm the castle?
He’s taken two teams, year-in, year-out playoff participants and gone nowhere but downhill with them.
In KC he took a team with one of the most prolific offenses in the league and turned it into a Pop Warner squad. The Chiefs the last several years have sort of resembled the last two Presidents- (Obama and Bush) a tale of two extremes. Dick’s Team was all offense and no defense, we’ll call his Bush for argument’s sake. Now, I wish I could say Herm “fixed” our defense, gave us a mediocre offense and brought us to the Obama term and Arrowhead glory of the early 90’s: but we have no offense AND no defense; while we still have some offensive stars, their play has been, well…offensive. We can’t seem to find the middle.
Herm’s defensive expertise, which he is given waaaay too much credit for- has given us a worse defense than we had during the Vermeil years. This year we are last in rushing yards allowed by 17 percent. It’s an embarrassment and there’s no way to explain why Harm Edwards still has a job. Unless of course you are Carl’s homie and you work at One Arrowhead Drive, where the “Rebuilding Umbrella” shields you from those heavy downpours of criticism, keeping you warm and dry from the storm.
Fuel to the fire
Herm has been good at squeaking into the playoffs with Bill Parcells and Dick Vermeil teams, at 10-6, 9-7 and then 6-10. He runs RBs like Curtis Martin and Larry Johnson into the ground and can’t protect his QBs. He had to bring Vinny Testaverde out of retirement due to injuries, got Trent Green killed, hurt Damon that year, now Brodie and Damon again. LJ was leading the league in rushing ’til he jumped the shark or we would have been down the same road again. If we had beat the Raiders, we’d be contending for the top seed of the AFC West with two wins! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Having Herm Edwards as the coach of your football team needs to be part two of that definition. All roads lead to mediocrity.
Oh yeah and we are 1-17. ONE AND SEVENTEEN! Going back to last season’s losing streak of 9 games.
Miami won one game last year, and look what Parcells/Sparano has done with them. Contending for their division, playoff bound- with Herm’s cast-off QB Chad Pennington! Rams, Falcons and Dolphins OH MY! All out-coaching and outperforming the Germ. Please, by all means defend Herm, but I challenge you to do it without the statement of “give him more time.”
- Are we seeing some improvement from young players? Yes, albeit, a little bit- absolutely. Isn’t that to be expected, at least a little bit?
- Are we still finding ways to lose games under Herm? More than we should.
- Was Brodie Croyle a mistake? Of course he was, it was obvious from the get-go.
- Was LJ’s contract a mistake? That’s looking like a yes- but don’t count him out.
- Letting Jared Allen go? I think we all know we had to.
- Not letting Tony Gonzalez walk? A mistake if we are truly rebuilding.
Finally, this question is for the fans to answer…
Addicts, how much time do we give Harm Edwards despite the Rebuilding Umbrella and other excuses?
I don’t know what you are crying about Crane. I think this season is going swimmingly. Couldn’t be going better.
I’ll explain…
1. We knew we needed at LEAST one more building year
2. We KNOW that the worse we do, the better draft we will have
3. We are doing SO badly that I am entertaining the idea of drafting down for a certain MLB and picking up another 2nd rounder
4. Say what you will about Herm, but he is a drafting GENIUS. We picked up more talent in this last draft than Vermille did his entire tenure.
I know I know. It is painful to watch. But I have never been so optimistic about the chiefs. Not in 20 years. No more 8-8 years with crappy draft picks. We are rebuilding with real talent.
Talk to me during the 09 season if you want Herms head. I might be inclined to listen then. Unless ove course Bradford doesn’t declare this year and we need a 1st rounder to snag him. Haha
But cold hard analysis aside. I want my 250$ back I payed Directv so I could watch all my chiefs games in Las Vegas!
November 7th, 2008 at 3:10 amJared is slowly begining to look like a real turd for the Vikes. Going for the knees now, he seems to have trouble with veteren offenses, I think he is definitly still ” a young man at risk”. I know alot of the fans and media arent crazy about him he is an odd guy. He sure could sack the groceries when he was with us though. Still great sackers historically dont reach the same heights the year after a record season. I think we need to bring Larry back. Its at the point where the team is being penalized rather than LJ and we need him with the recent injury of Smith. Tony is such a great guy. Trading him would have been right had we gotten a fair deal but we didnt and I think Tony was too picky on who he wanted to play for. At the Bears preseason game the navy parachuted onto the field. Both teams seems polite but uninterested, Tony stood at attention and ran out on the field and helped them get the chutes off. Only guy that did. Now he is playing like he never wanted to leave. The broke the mold after they made Tony G.
November 7th, 2008 at 9:12 amHerm has been probably the worst coach in the NFL for quite some time. BUT, I am seeing signs that might be changing. Herm has begrudgingly accepted the spread offense which is a step in the right direction. If Herm could just come to the realization that the game is all about scoring points in whatever manner is available, he will drastically improve both his stature and record as a head coach. I don’t think the spread is the answer for any NFL team (by itself), but just the fact that the spread offense is basically a passing offense shows some semblance of intelligent coaching on Herm’s part. The team needs to play to it’s strengths and do whatever is necessary to win. We all know running Larry Johnson into the offense lines butts wasn’t working. The run,run, pass, punt offense wasn’t working. The spread offense allows Thigpen to read the defenses better, it allows the running backs to hit open lanes or cut to open lanes, and is capable of using the pass to set up the run as well as using the run to set up the pass. Just the fact that Herm has allowed this to take place is at least moderately encouraging to me. I think Herm needs to be allowed to coach out these last games of the season and see how he does. If he grows into the head coaching position with his young players, so be it. Although I have been EXTREMELY critical of Herm in the past, I am not committed to dissing the guy if he actually improves his coaching abilities and techniques. So I am willing to give him some credit where credit is due. I don’t think I will ever be able to listen to his Hermisms without cringing, though. Why doesn’t the guy just shut up if he has nothing relevant to say?
November 7th, 2008 at 11:18 amEven though I’m sure Herm probably had little to do with it, keeping Tony was the smart thing to do because we were not going to receive for him the amount value he provides to the organization on several levels: Sheer talent and competitiveness, keeping fans in the seats, value to the community, and mentoring younger players.
Hanging the Trent Green injury on Edwards makes no sense whatsoever. Blaming him for injuries in general makes little sense for that matter. I will agree with you on the Croyle selection though – a real head scratcher from day one. But what do I know?
Just about everyone around the league, including fellow coaches, former great players, and commmentators alike, guys’ who’s opinions I tend to respect, believe Edwards is doing the right thing with this team and also believe he is exactly the guy for the job. I appreciate as much as anybody that going 1-17 is really frustrating and embarrassing but one still has to ask what are his peers and other experts seeing that certain of us Chiefs fans and other critics aren’t?
His history with players is that they all love him, believe in him, and will play their hardest for him. The current squad is no exception. Unlike Dick Vermeil, Edwards has actually won some playoffs of late. And he did it with teams that were battered by injury that almost nobody expected to get that far.
Yeah, this has been a painful period to live through but I think we all knew in our hearts, even early on last season, that what we’re witnessing now is something we knew we were going to have to experience. I think Miami went through this same sort of thing last year and now appears to be turning the corner. Now that we’ve got some stability at QB and improving our defense against the run, I’d say we’re edging ever closer to that same corner.
Making a commitment to the rebuild was the right thing to do and if that requires us to do an occasional gut check then that’s what we have to do. If this team continues to show the kind of progress it has over the last couple of weeks in the sense that it stays in every game and wins, say, at least 3 or 4 of those matches then yeah, absolutely, Coach Edwards has earned another season to build on the progress he and his players have made. Unless the remaining games show us a team that regularly reverts to what we saw in the Oakland, Carolina, and Tennessee games, then bringing somebody else to change things around (again!) would be the worst possible decision and only prolong our misery.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:36 amMy point about lumping Green in there was to illustrate the QBs that have been damaged under Herm Edwards. The argument can be made and won handily that Green injured himself on that particular play. Had Green not went into the latest slide since yesterday’s stock market tumble…he might have made it through 3-4 more games -at most.
We will see if you’re drinking the Kool-Aid at the end of next year when HermBall is still giving the same results and finding ways to lose. I was right about Croyle, Adam was right about Matt Ryan, and we are both right in our assessment of Harm Edwards.
Your only hope DoubleD, to continue your Herm Edwards fantasy in Vegas is to jump on as many KC +4 games as you can find.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:40 amWhy bring up Ryan? We never really had a shot at him unless we were willing to give up valuable picks. Too big of a gamble, especially considering how badly we needed those extra picks and who we ended up with. Besides, as even I think you would admit, tossing Ryan in behind our OL (sans the likes of Branden Albert no doubt) would have been an even riskier proposition. No, I’m afraid you won’t find too many people agreeing with you if your point is that the Chiefs did not play this last draft extremely well . . .
As I said at the time, if Ryan had fallen to us, then passing on him would have been hard thing to do. Considering Herm’s unusually high level of interest in, nay, exuberance about, Ryan prior to the draft, I think you would also have a hard time making the case that Herm would have actually passed on him if given the opportunity. I know you don’t like Herm but for the sake of your own credibility, you should at least give credit where due.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pmI’m sayin’ based on my past takes along with Adam’s (which ended up being correct)…we agree Herm isn’t the way to go DD. Try to follow along instead of making straw man arguments. Your comment about getting better against the run doesn’t hunt either. We are dead last against the run. And to say Miami is turning the corner now, well why do you think that is? Need I remind you we won 3 more games than they did last year, and we got worse. They won one game, and are getting better. G’s up, Harm down if that bitch can’t swim, then he bound to drizzown!
November 7th, 2008 at 12:13 pmCrane, my basic take on Herm is that he is the perfect guy for who this team is now. Whether he is right guy, long term, for who we want this team needs to become remains to be seen. The jury is not just out on that one, it’s not even time for it to be selected or seated.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:16 pmI have to say Herms interest in Ryan prior to the draft shows Herms skills in evaluating talent. There wasnt an overwhelming amount of excitment about him prior to draft day. But Herm sure saw something in him.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pmMiami went 6-10 before they went 1-15. What that proves is that they beat us in the race to the bottom and as a result are perhaps a little bit ahead of us in making their way back up the hill. My response to that is that at some not too distant point in the future, I expect us to quickly gain on and then surpass them.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:26 pmMy god, did I just read Harm called “perfect” and a “genius” in the same thread? Gentleman, please remove your thick-as-hell rose-colored bifocals before stepping into the Addict.
Quote of the week.
Double D, the whole thing about experts, pundits, etc. a lot of times they are wrong. Matt Millen had a job forever because of this kind of logic. Additionally, I could care less if somebody is a player’s coach. Bill Parcells and Tom Coughlin aren’t player’s coaches, but Wade Phillips, Marvin Lewis and Harm are. There is no correlation between being a player’s coach and accumulating wins.
Lots of people think getting rid of Herm will set us back another 2-3 years. No. This is the NFL during the age of parity. This isn’t a Big 12 team (did Ron Prince really deserve this, by the way?). The Phins realized they effed up in hiring Cam Cameron and only gave him a year. Because of that, they have gone from 1-15 to 4-4 quicker than Herm can pull a Bill Walton and go all Captain Obvious on us.
Please, people, stop defending this guy. You are giving Clark Hunt the mandate to keep Herm under that Red and Gold umbrella for as long as he wants.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:30 pmAll Herm did was take a freakin’ picture with Matt Ryan!!!!!!
Seriously, I think the Matt Ryan trip by Carl and Herm was a smokescreen, or else we would have at least inquired about trading up.
Riddle me this: If someone scratches off a winning lottery ticket in K.C., does Herm get the credit?
November 7th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWe went 9-7 before we went 4-12. Double D, what are you talking about? There will be no surpassing under this moron. Mark my words.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:35 pmAdam seriously why do you think that Carl didnt take Herm to the draft? He was on the schedule to be at the draft party in KC with the rest of us booze hounds that day. Big Tuna makes a lot of sense about if you bake the dinner you should be allowed to help pick out the groceries. Herm has said several times that Carl picks em and he coaches them. Why the separation (at least appearance of separation) on the draft duties?
November 7th, 2008 at 12:48 pmAdam,
Before you and Crane turn this into a site that fetes Phins and all things Parcells, bear in mind that Miami enjoyed the luxury of having the #1 draft pick along with stability at QB. And speaking of Miami’s QB, I believe you were among those very vocal in your opposition to bringing Pennington here because we didn’t want any more of Herm’s washed-up projects from the Jets. And OMG, Miami whiffed big time by passing on Matt Ryan, right! Careful you don’t trip on your shoelaces there fella.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:53 pmAdam, perhaps you should talk to your doctor about getting a prescription for Aricept? Herm did (and said) a hell of a lot more concerning Ryan than just show up for a photo-op.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:59 pmI would love to have Pennington here right now to actually have assurance after whoever goes down because i am not sold on Quinn Gray, the guy is a career backup and the bench is home, he may take some vacation time to the field but he always ends back at home
November 7th, 2008 at 1:13 pmIf Pennington is the second coming then Miami never would have been forced to Wildcat it up with Ronnie Brown.
The point with Pennington is that Herm couldn’t coach him up and someone else can. He’s not setting the world on fire but at least he has a match.
November 7th, 2008 at 1:27 pmSay what you want about Herm, but try and tell me he isn’t the worst coach when it comes to managing the clock at the end of the half/end of the game. He has cost his team more than a few games. And you do play to win the game.
November 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pmbryman,
Nobody’s saying Herm doesn’t have his faults. After watching 40+ years of Chiefs football, I can’t name one coach who hasn’t aggravated me for one reason or another and/or lost games unnecessarily. I believe you have to accept the bad with the good in just about every case. It’s just when you go 1-17, the bad has a way of getting overly magnified.
November 7th, 2008 at 2:41 pmWho the eff goes 1-17? Rich Kotite? Jerry Glanville? I mean, c’mon Double D. This is like defending Bush’s Presidency or Ashlee Simpson’s singing voice.
And you are dead wrong when it comes to what I said about Pennington. I was right on that one, too.
http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/08/07/the-favre-fallout-pennington-to-the-chiefs/
I liked him because Parcells drafted him, not because Herm coached him.
As for Ryan, if Herm liked him half as much as I did he would have traded up to have picked him regardless of the costs, and then picked a Sam Baker in the second round (starting for Atlanta…a guy who was also one of “Adam’s Draft Day Apples”).
November 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pmRandy, all I know is that Bill Kuharich and Ray Farmer are more involved with the draft, and that Carl is less involved. I really don’t know how involved Herm is…I know he loved Carr, but a lot of me thinks that the Chiefs sell him as this draft genius to broaden his umbrella. The problem with that is our drafts are currently being overrated by our fans, and that’s if a lot of this picks are even his.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pmVery interesting .
November 7th, 2008 at 3:11 pmActually Adam Bill Kuharich does have a huge role in the process but…..you can’t tell me that Carl Peterson doesn’t make the final decision it is ultimately his decision
November 7th, 2008 at 5:05 pmAll is was saying is that Carl Peterson is definitely less involved with football decisions than in the past. This is no longer a one-man draft dictatorship.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:24 pmLJ’s aquisition is a good example of that, I think Vermeal wanted a defensive player if I remember right.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:57 pmstill he will take who he wants to take, I mean the players that they took except for a few i mean what was he gonna do say no. they are good players but if he wanted to make the pick he could
November 7th, 2008 at 6:16 pmI think we know that some of them are pretty good, but it’s too early to make a verdict.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:48 pmi agree but on paper they were very good picks, Carr Flowers Albert Charles, all look very good. Cottam is pretty damn good at blocking and is getting involved in the passing game. Dorsey is already doing better than Ryan Sims ever did but still the jury is out on him, i mean the only picks that are really pretty questionable are Kevin Robinson but he could change my mind and Michael Merrit who has a lot to prove and you could throw Dajuan Morgan but really our A draft grade from every expert looks like it could stick in two or three years
November 8th, 2008 at 1:39 pmYou know Herm started out here with Marty as a scout but I guess he had nothing to do with building that D in the 90’s then either huh? Uh what 2 teams were year-in year-out play-off participants. He had a record of 35-19 before his last season in NY where he lost 12 starters and used 5 QB’s and 2-3 in the playoffs. The “great” Bill Parcels was 39-26 and 1-1 in the playoffs before he got there. I guess Herm was just luckier than Bill to make it to the playoffs 3 of his first 4 season’s compared to Bill’s once in 4 years. Were you considering them as a year-in year-out playoff participant and the Chiefs the other. Where are you getting your info. my friend. Him believing Carl and thinking that senior citizen O-line would still work(which is what made it turn to “pop warner”) ok yup I guess you can blame him for that one too. I guess you all think the Titans were crazy for keeping Jeff Fisher through there rebuilding years. Damn they were stupid, I’m sure Titans fans still haven’t forgave them either because I mean it sure would suck to be a fan of the only undefeated team left.
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February 18th, 2010 at 7:09 pm