AADQ: That Tony Gonzalez Rumor

Reasons why the Chiefs can't model the Cowboys.

#1. They had the luckiest trade of the century. 1985 5th round pick Herschel walker had ran for 737 & 891 yards his first two years and has a big year in 88 and gains over 2000 all purpose yards.

Vikings gave up 6 draft picks and FIVE SOLID PLAYERS (1 RB and 4 new defensive players)!

Possibly the beneficial trade in NFL history, and also why its hard to use this model today unless you can get a trade like this to go your way (Walker ran over 1000 yards after this once btw so Vikings got really screwed on the deal)

Cowboys also had the best three year stretch of first round draft picks in history, again making it highly unlikely for anyone to duplicate unless they can draft Hall of Famers in three consecutive drafts.

88 - Michael Irvin
89 - Troy Aikman
90 - Emmitt Smith

Any other examples? What happened in Tampa Bay?

chfsfan-

You beat me to the punch on all the Jerry Jones data.

However, the "Cowboys" didn't clean house. Jerry Jones himself, did. He came in and cleaned house and used a ton of his own money to clean up the big D. Their organization had become stagnant under Bum Bright. Jones started axing people was in coaching and execs FIRST. He got to the players eventually. This is what needs to go down in KC. Carl, Herm, all the assistant coaches (except Krumrie IMHO) all need to bizz-ounce. That's the only way we will keep from running this team further into the ground and more under the cap.

The Herschel Walker trade is what made that Dallas dynasty, and is also why you have never seen such a blockbuster trade since. Teams learned they cannot mortgage their future for 1 player, no matter how many pushups he does a day.

T G isn't doing jack cause they are not getting him the ball they are not using him or LJ properly in the offense. And if Herm is such a good coach why didn't the Jets keep him he did the same thing there he is doing here

wow exactly the info I was looking for FAN MAN. Im a guy who likes to look at the facts.

randy5k

1986 7-9
1987 7-8
1988 3-13
After the 1988 season Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys. He then promptly fired Tom Landry. Now remember Tom Landry was the ONLY coach the Cowboys ever had. He was God-like in Dallas. Jerry hired a college coach. Jimmy Johnson. The things they said about Jerry and Jimmy were 10 times worse than you hear about Carl and Herm. There were actual death threats made. Unfortunately, the 1989 year did nothing to convince anyone. The 1989 Cowboys look very familiar to the 2008 Chiefs.

1989 1-15 (Aikman didn't even PLAY in the only win because of injury)
1990 7-9
1991 11-5 (Again, Aikman was hurt and missed a few games) The Cowboys lost this year in the first round of the playoffs.
1992 13-3 (Super Bowl Champions)
1993 12-4 (Super Bowl Champions AFTER a 0-2 start)
1994 12-4 (Lost in the AFC Championship game with Barry Switzer as the Head Coach)
1995 12-4 (Super Bowl Champions)

Jerry and Jimmy did exactly what the Chiefs have done this year. They blew up the team and started over. They even traded THEIR best player to Minnesota for draft picks. They built this team THROUGH THE DRAFT.

I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is as good as Jimmy Johnson. But remember this. The things being said about Jimmy are the EXACT things being said about Herm. Actually, I think think the criticism towards Johnson was WORSE if you can imagine that. I was in Dallas during this time and it was ugly. The Cowboys were receiving NATIONAL criticism, whereas the Chiefs criticism is mostly within the Chiefs Nation.

And I'm not saying Brodie Croyle is another Troy Aikman. But Aikman had the "injury-prone" tag put on him during those lean years.

Those lean years were very QUICKLY forgotten after the first Super Bowl Championship.

My point. The blue print the Chiefs are using is VERY SIMILAR to what the Cowboys did. Let's all hope that we see similar results in the years ahead. To be honest, this is a different direction for Carl Peterson.

It may not happen, but I'm a glass is half full type of guy!

Go Chiefs.

Yes Zach my time spent on the addict sure helps me keep an open mind.

That was sure a fun drive home from the Denver game.

Change of heart randy?

I also wonder what some people where saying of Herm when we beat Denver.

Tony isnt doing JACK for us right now anyway I guess. He is becoming very disruptive.

They need to get rid of Herm Edwards cause the team just isn't playing for him. And the problem with the Chiefs is that their 3rd yr players are not producing like the Cowgirls or even their 2nd yr players like Hali,Tank,Mcbride,Page,Webb,the list goes on.

I think you at least need a good mix. Any idea what the records were for the Cowgirls those lean years?

I'm not so sure about the good mixture of vets and rookies. The Cowboys CLEANED house. I mean they even fired the public address announcer!

More draft picks is the way to go for a team committed to a youth movement. The draft is the way the Cowboys went. They built from within.

What are more draft pickes gong to do for the Chiefs we have no QB one reciever one running back and the best tightend in the league were is the vetran leadership?

Yeah but the Cowgirls had a good mixture of vets and rookies

well that interesting

randy5k,

Yes, I can name a team. Look up the 1989 Dallas Cowboys. When you see what the 1989 Cowboys did, look up the 1992 Dallas Cowboys. What they did is VERY similar to what the Chiefs are doing right now.

Can anyone name a team where a reuild like this has led to success? Not impressed with what it did for Tampa Bay.

Well sometimes things get worse before the get better. As Chiefs fans we need to be patient with our young players, but demand more from Clark Hunt with his wallet, his gm, and his decisions.

I didnt believe we would be better but the moves we are making are creating a team that is worse and worse and worse. If we trade Tony Im honestly done with the games this year I see no more intelligence with the organization, NONE.

One thing I will make note that the Giants offered a 6th rounder and that is not fair value.

Whir comparing MLB to NFL is a bad comparison. The NFL you can be dog shit one year and great the next.

Randy5k, I really don't believe in the sell-out streak that much. I mean if you went to the last home game last year then you would know that place was not a sell-out. I understand your frustrated because you have season tickets, but did you really think we were going to be any better than last year? Did you believe in Brodie Croyle and the rooks?

Tony has requested the trade and I think how loyal he has been to us we should see if there is fair value out there for him. Remember this is the guy that could haveve bolted KC, but decided to stay. If you want to blame anyone blame Clark Hunt for being CHEAP, blame Carl for never giving it all to win it all, and Herm for well being Herm.

I think it will be hard to put a price on a guy like Tony G. I don't think what Tony's true value is equal to his market value. That win said, I would like to see Tony given the opportunity to win a championship.

I understand Tony's situation. However, I disagree with continually trading away good players for youth that hasn't arrived yet. That's what the Royals do and look at them. Sometimes it's nice to actually have productive players on the team, no matter the age or point in their career. As selfish as I am as a fan, I want Tony to remain a lifelong Chief. Seeing him in another uniform makes me sick, but that's me being a selfish fan. One perspective.

I love Tony, he is a class act who plays his heart out. All he asked from the Chiefs in return was a Super bowl ring. This is how we reward his loyalty? We enter full blown rebuilding mode in the final years of his contract. Tony will forever be a Chief when he enters the HOF, so that part is good. But I think we need to let him move on. You can tell he is not happy here.

PS. Here is a link to a yahoo article.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-chiefs-go...

Go Chiefs!

randy5k,

Trading Tony is in direct line with what the Chiefs have been saying all along. Rebuild and get younger. Trading Albert and/or Dorsey won't happen because the fit the mold of what the Chiefs want right now.

Schmuck34,

You're right. Tony has the right to request whatever he wants. But the bottom line is this. It's not about Tony. I don't care if Tony EVER catches another pass if he's with another team. It's about what's best for the CHIEFS! Tony has been VERY WELL paid for his years as a Chief. The Chiefs don't OWE him ANYTHING. If the Chiefs can't benefit from a trade...then they won't do it.

Go Chiefs!

Lets let poor Larry go too. And wait, Albert and Dorsey have real potential, God love them lets trade them too for some hopeless empty picks from the worst draft season coming up that any of us have seen for years.

AWWWW yes lets let anyone who wants to go to another team go whenever they want! Screw all of us who spent our hard earned money on season tickets! We traded our best defensive player now lets get rid of our best offensive player and let every single seat in arrowhead stay empty. Lets piss on our season sell out record so Tony can go get more records with the giants. He is 32, I mean he only has seven more years!!!

Tony will be retired by the time we have a shot at it again. So why not trade him and continue to rebuild the Chiefs?

I think if you would ask anyone that knows me Tony G is my all-time favorite Chief. He is the all-time greatest at his position, a class act, and a true role model. I think if Tony wants to go somewhere else then he deserves it more than anyone in almost any sport. He is nothing like a Manny Ramirez.

He set the records with KC and will be in the ring of honor someday no matter where he finishes hsi career.

ESPN reporting that TG INQUIRED about being traded
Does that mean he asked TO be traded? Or did he ask IF he would be traded?

Tony has contributed so much to the Chiefs organization that he can request whatever he wants and I'm good with that. If he says Carl give me your daughter and a million dollars in unmarked 20s he damn well better do it. The man deserves a chance to win a game (maybe even a playoff game!).

Every player wants to be on a team with a chance to win it all, that doesn't mean you trade your best players for draft picks.

Well I think its more about Tony wanting to be on a team with a chance to win it all, than us just dumping the guy.

Plus whats the point of having a redzone threat when your never in the redzone?

Mushin-
Good point "But the #1 reason we should trade Gonzo is because it will force the QB’s (especially Huard) to start looking for the #2 and #3 receivers."

But hopefully neither one of those garbage QB'a will be on our team next year.

I'm just amazed with as bad as our team is that people want to trade our biggest red zone threat for more draft picks. We just had a huge draft class!

D-Bowe will not get traded, come on Chris.

Waters probably wouldnt get too much since he has talked retirement and is on the downside of his career.

More info on the situation over at Gretz:

http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/saturday-m...

I wonder what kind of draft picks we could get for D-Bowe or Waters? The only player I won't trade is team MVP Dustin Colquitt.

I hope that if this rumor turns out to be true that our front office (?) lets him go; if anyone ever deserved to get a Super Bowl ring it's Tony.

i don't understand how carl and herm are hanging on for their jobs and then they just trade one of their "weapons" on offense. if they do trade him, is it possible clark has told herm and carl they'll be back, just do what they gotta do.

I think trading Gonzalez would be a great move for all parties involved.

-Gonzalez deserves a shot at a Super Bowl. And while I think the Chiefs are going to be MUCH better next year, much better means an 8-8 team.

-More draft picks with a team with this many holes can only be a good thing.

-We'll get a chance to see if Cottam is a long term answer

-But the #1 reason we should trade Gonzo is because it will force the QB's (especially Huard) to start looking for the #2 and #3 receivers. I truly believe that the reason that Franklin and Darling never get the ball is because the QB's are convinced that Gonzo can catch anything. And while true to an extent, the three guys who cover him on the defense can ususally catch anything also. The QB reads this season have been Bowe, Gonzo, Bowe, force it to Gonzo. During the pre-season the offense looked better. Not good exactly, but better. And Gonzo had very few catches. The #2 and #3 receivers may not be world beaters, but Darling, Webb and Frankling have been thrown to a total of 24 times combined. Gonzo has been thrown to 41 times. If you factor in designed WR screens and short passes those numbers are even worse. (Stats from CBS Sports). You can't tell me that with Bowe double covered and Gonzo triple covered in all these games that there weren't more opportunities to throw to the second and third receivers. Gonzo is the security blanket that needs to be ripped out of the QB, Offensive Coordinator and Herm's hands.

Trade him and wish him the best of luck.

Hmmmm...that is interesting indeed...

I think that you can argue we should want more picks...but I dont think we will get them...by any means...Gonzalez may be better than Shockey (which he certainly is) but Shockey has longevity (besides injury) in that he is going to be around much longer obviously...Tony doesnt have that long left really...

With that said...I would love the move for Tony. It would be amazing if he could get a ring...of course even better if it was with us but...lets be real here...

As for us, I am not really sure what this move would do for us. It would kind of indicate to me that Carl and Herm's jobs are safe for the season actually because the move is kind of like giving up completely for the season. There is no indication whatsoever that this offense can be effective without him (hell its not even WITH him.) So I think a trade would be a general indicator that we may have to live with them another year, sadly.

dakotadave, actually it would be the Saints' picks under this scenario. Just wanted to point that out.

I think tony should just do the george brett thing and ride it out. I really dont think clark hunt will go another year without spending the cap and bringing in a good qb and free agents. I really dont think he could keep visiting his dad grave with the team in mess herm hast gotten us into. how many of you think brodie is the next bill kenny. this draft is full of options i think we can get some good pics and bring in a few key players and turn this mess around. it starts with herm chan carl and the rest of this gang to get out of town. MARTY FOR GM, hell ill take lane kiffin over herm. Herm is a good scout maybe put him somewhere else in the office.

I have mixed feelings about this deal. I certainly would understand if Tony wants out, and would not fault him for that.

But if we think our offense is scary bad now, it would be unbearable without Tony.

A second and a fifth sounds ok, but I don't think it is good enough. If that is where Shockey set the market, the cost for Tony has to be more. Don't get me wrong, Shockey is a good player, but he is constantly injured, and he is a malcontent. Tony is the ultimate pro, and he is always available. Not to mention the fact that he is just better.

Also keep in mind that a 2nd and a 5th from the NYG will be more like a 3rd and a 6th when you figure in what their draft position will likely be.