A.A.D.Q.: Should Herm Stay Or Should He Go?

I am glad to see some folks are beginning to come around to my long held conviction that Herm needs to go. This offense is simply a replay of last year's offense. The only common denominator is Herm Edwards. If Chan Gailey was able to create and run respectable offenses elsewhere, why has he not been able to do so here? I believe it is because he has been Hermcuffed in (possibly) the same manner Solari may have been Hermcuffed. Whether Herm stays or goes, the Chiefs have to have an offense which is able to score enough point to play in the NFL. The current offense cannot do so. As far as Marty or Bill Cowher coming here, I am all for it. I don't think Herm will ever have enough of a grasp of the offensive side of the ball to be a winning coach. He would make someone an outstanding defensive backfield coach.

I completely agree...They were talking about Damon's injury on 610 and it sounds like he may be out this week again cuz he can hardly move his neck apparently...I am worried about the situation if we go with Thigpen instead of signing someone quick...He shouldnt be quite as bad as he was this week simply because if he is starting he will get more practice and should perform better, but I still am not sold on the "One-Look Wonder" (stares down his intended reciever...) by any means...

I agree with many of you that Herm has not earned a termination JUUUUUUST yet...but if his staff consistently fields teams that are THAT unprepared all season then he certainly does not deserve to see his rebuilding effort come to fruition...

I also am not sure about Cowher as it would take even MORE time to convert over to his preferred 3-4 and so on...

I kinda like the scenario of surviving with Herm ONE MORE YEAR and then trying to lure Mike Holmgren out of his "sabbatical" that he will embark on after this year...he CERTAINLY could bring some offense to this team, and isnt a bad personnel guy either...

Yesterday was the worst Chiefs game I've ever seen...or was it? I remember Marty's Monday Night Meltdown in '98 when our team got 74 personal fouls. Or was it Gun's Run in 2000 when our team rolled over while we visited Atlanta. I'm not even going back to the 80's...wow.

I do agree that it is just plain silly to want a guy's head after two games, one of which was a valiant game by our team and coaching staff.

But I think the reason we're all so upset is how foolish KC looked yesterday. Rebuilding is one thing, ridiculous experiments involving practice squad players is quite another.

Herm has to turn this thing around or 2008 is his last season.

Carl needs to get a Quarterback in here right now (and he needs to be a professional football player) or 2008 is his last season.

Woah... Haha!

Well, Marty Schottenheimer is TOO good a coach to be stuck in an office. Marty should come back. And the thing is, you know he WANTS to coach again. He got tossed by San Diego for an over-rated Norv Turner (who coached a fluke 2007 season). And coaches arent like players. When theyre looking for a team, they arent looking for a winning team, theyre looking for a team that needs help. And we need Marty's help.... BADLY!

I'm not the kind to sit here and type out dream scenerios and what not (ie; Brady Quinn, Vince Young, etc. etc.) And even though there is speculation of a Bill Cowher return to coaching, I doubt that'll happen. It would be great though. And I mean, he WAS a D.C. for the Chiefs... But not gonna happen. I think the least farfetched scenerio is the return of Marty Schottenheimer to Kansas City. I think we would become so much more of a better team with Shott.

Either way, Herm NEEDS to GO! SOME people need to stop giving him the excuse of, "Its ONLY the 2nd game of the season." :::NEWSFLASH::: THIS IS THE 3RD SEASON WE'VE GONE 0-2! AND WE'VE SEEN THE RESULTS!

As much as I wanna believe that he took us to the playoffs... I dont. He didnt. We made the playoffs by chance, with a 9-7 record mind you. Herm did nothing.

Im all for Shott to call the shots in Kansas City.... (again)

thank you!!! my point exactly herm is garbage and a clown of a coach hes just cant coach he can motivate and find talent but cant coach it!! most horrible x's and o's coach ever!!! im not jumpin off this ship i love the chiefs and will til the day i take my dirt nap!! but i wanna see some changes in managment and coaching!!!

GO CHIEFS!!

Rihavens - last time I checked Peterson wasn't the one coaching on the side lines during yesterdays annihilation..I really don't think we're over reacting..This is just not one game..This is the third mother fucking season we have started 0-2...Is that understood? What is the deal with that? Why can't the chiefs win at home anymore? Why can't the chiefs consistently score? Carl Peterson was actually here when we kicked teams asses..Herm wasn't..

Youth and our line are not excuses for yesterdays performance..All coaching.. and Huard was perfectly fine to go back in. I can't wait for Herm to be goneee..Why are some of you soo loyal to this guy?

CP can exit his office, I think Marty Schottenheimer can do a better job as GM. Herm and Company should be on notice.

yep i live in saints country the only thing stupider than a oakland fan is a saints fan there so fair weathered and the superdome sucks!!

I couldn't agree more. For what it's worth, I live in the middle of Viking country. That bar I was in was 90% purple. Everyone around here was talking super bowl. At least these people are just as miserable as I am.

ur right....but im not abonding this team ill be there the next and the next week watchin my team play....if u cut me i bleed red and gold...but its not his plan i like the rebiuldin process but the gameplan was absolutely horrendous it made me sick to my stomach to watch it!! wheres the offense we seen in the pre season!? in a few days ill be calmed down and ready for the birds!! but it hurts cause i hate oakland and the one thing i hate more than oakland is to lose to them!

GO CHIEFS!!

kcchiefsfan56, You got to remember that they were trying so damn hard to win a Super Bowl for Dick V. that they morgaged every bit of future talent we had. That is not Herm's fault. If we go and pull the plug without seeing things through we will become the Raiders. Al Davis gets so pissed of every time he loses, he cleans house. Trust me, I know how you feel, (I had to watch the game in a freakin bar right next to two raiders fans). Herm will need to prove his plan is working or he will be out the door. Lets just give him the time to do it right. I'm not trying to deny you your opinion, I love your passion. Thats what makes Chiefs fans so awesome.

KCChiefsFan56,

Your Dad is a wise man. Growing up our family had season tickets in the lower section right behind the goal post opposite the giant scoreboard. We sat there from it's opening in 1972 until I left Missouri to go into the military in 1983. I spent many Sundays for many years (all around the world) looking for a TV showing the Chiefs game (Thank goodness for Direct TV and the NFL Sunday Ticket). And every year, a highlight of the season was playing the Raiders. It had always been the NFG rivaly of the decage. Even the few times we didn't win (at home), it was such a good game that you left looking back at the "What If's" for the plays that almost broke free.

This Sunday literally made me feel sick to see the Raiders players mocking the Chiefs and their fans. I can't imagine what Lamar would do if he were here to see this. If Carl doesn't do something to fix this, he isn't worthy of his position. Herm has done a good job of collecting up and coming talent (actually, the scouts did that), but he has no clue as to how to use and develop his weapons. Only time will tell.

Fans must Stay True to the Team. But blind faith in leadership will get any team killed.

honestly...it kills me i cant stand losin to the raiders not the way that happened at arrowhead!! before herm came and drove this once proud great franchise into the ground remember how arrowhead was the toughest place to play we never got embrassed like that there it killed me to look up and see half of arrowhead empty this is wat herm and carl have done to this franchise!!!!

kcchiefsfan56, how do you feel about losing to the Raiders?

KcFan, it'd be phenomenal to have VY. He has an unorthodox throwing motion, and is never going to be a Peyton Manning, but for another 5-6 years (at least) until his legs fail him, he would be truly exciting, and all it takes is a tiny spark to get Arrowhead fully fired up. You're right, I think we'd be a bit better for him than in Tennessee, as a home crowd, at least. And we do have better receivers (at least D-Bowe) and Tony G. is better than Crumpler. LJ is better than LenDale, and Jamaal Charles/Kolby Smith are a tossup for their backup running backs.

As much as I like the Titans, though, it'd never work. Their line is definetly better. If he has mental issues NOW, I can't imagine seeing him after a game where he gets sacked 8 times, or throws 5 picks. Besides, he was drafted as their franchise QB, to take the reigns after Steve McNair left. Those are big shoes to fill, and his rookie year he was impressive, I think they'll look at that and say he's worth more than he is. Personally, despite being a big fan, I wouldn't give a 1st rounder for him, he's just not worth it at this point in time, based on his play. Now, if you consider the excitement and hopefulness it would bring to Arrowhead, and get us fired up again, etc etc, I dunno, is it worth a (high) first rounder to any of you?

ill tell you why he should go when the raiders come into arrowhead and completely embarass you like that u know something is wrong i been a chiefs fan my whole life and the one thing i learned from my dad is : YOU DO NOT LOSE TO THE RAIDERS!!!! if its a close game its tolerbale but at arrowhead and you get kicked around like that….that is unacceptable am i right chiefs fans??

I don't think Herm is handcuffing anything. I don't care if your name is Walsh, Lombardi, or Billichek (spelling?). If your line plays that poorly, your are going to get killed. Gailey was supposed to be the guy that could make something work with the guys that we have. We are yet to see anything remotely close to that. You know they are in a panick over their line right now and they should be. It will be interesting to see what happens.

PS Maybe after the next Raiders loss, Kiffin will be available? Youth movement!

I know a lot of people don't like LJ, but I have to admit, it looks like Herm doesn't want to use him anymore, and that's a shame. And as far as Herm handcuffing the OC ... that's not going to change. Herm is so afraid of making mistakes that he coaches scared, and we lose because of it.

Herm Blows seriously..I'm totally with you..He is a good motivational speaker, has a connection with players, and somehow gets team to play up to the compeition..He can't coach..He doesn't like winning or even winning big..Really the guy likes playing close games..Remember when we used to whip the shit out of people with Vermeil? I do..Even in 2002 we kicked the shit out of a couple of teams..We don't do that at all anymore..

I'm not sure Cowher is our answer either. The above post is right..I like Marty..He has learned since his days with us to let the offense run..But then again our chances of winning in the playoffs might be zilch..But atleast we'd make them!

ill tell you why he should go when the raiders come into arrowhead and completely embarass you like that u know something is wrong i been a chiefs fan my whole life and the one thing i learned from my dad is : YOU DO NOT LOSE TO THE RAIDERS!!!! if its a close game its tolerbale but at arrowhead and you get kicked around like that....that is unacceptable am i right chiefs fans??

It's time for Gunther, CP and Herm to get their pink slip already. Obviously Chan hasn't had time to figure things out yet so he gets the benefit of the doubt for now.

I know this is waaaaay out in left field, but has anyone thought of the idea of Vince Young in KC?

He has some durability issues himself which just started last year, before that he hadn't missed a game since he was a kid.

He is mobile which is great for our pathetic O Line at the moment, at least on the right side.

He is young, so he goes with the current "rebuilding" theme.

He favors his tight-ends, which we have the best in the history of the NFL.

If he is used correctly he has great big play potential, and though he has struggled, after some GOOD coaching he could be a good NFL quarterback. In Tennessee he has no one, and I mean no one to throw to and the office in Nashville is trying to turn him into the next Peyton Manning instead of harnessing his real talents and ability.

And word out of Nashville is that Jeff Fisher plans on keeping Kerry Collins as the starter as long as they win so Vince could possibly become their #2.

And lastly, which I really like, the kid has a ton of heart(though some will discredit him as being too weak emotionally as of late) and he thrives and lives off his home crowd. What better home crowd is there than KC? With the proper support(that he is not getting in Tenn) and in the right environment(KC-Arrowhead) I think he could play his heart out and win alot of games.

What are the thoughts?

I'd rather go for a free agent now, than trade for one and give up picks we need. There are still a few 'decent' and I do stress decent, because as bad as they may seem, they've done better than Thigpen, by leaps, bounds, and worlds.

And yes, Maualuga looks like a stud. And I've heard some pundits compare him to a Dick B., Singletary, and I watched the kid, and he flat out played great against a #5 team. He played at 275 last year, and slimmed down to about 245 or so I read, but I think if he can sit somewhere at around 260-265, he's your prototypical hard-nosed, tough-tackling MLB. I wouldn't mind snatching him. Although I think we'll have too high a pick to grab him so early. Unless we can trade down, I don't see it happening.

I think our DE's are fine. Turk and Tamba have played well, especially against the run. Noone remembers how bad Jared was against the run, but it's nice to see how well our ends play the run now. Of course, we haven't seen Denver and their rollouts yet, either. So we shall see in a few weeks. I'm more worried about the DT's. Dorsey is getting SINGLED UP and still not making plays. I don't know if his knee is hurt or he's just struggling, but right now I'm just crossing my fingers that he's not a Ryan Sims part deux. I'm very pleased with our secondary thus far, we've played incredibly well on the backside of the D. Some of that is from getting run on after other teams have the lead, but some of it is just good defense. So far, it's just hard to evaluate talent overall, as we're getting killed, and I think some of it is playcalling.

Take for instance the Patsies game.. we were BLITZING Tom Brady, and we ended up having two turnovers on his drives. Then Cassell comes in, and you'd think we'd totally unleash the hounds, rattle his confidence, as he hadn't played significant time in forever, and we sit back in a comfortable little D and he picks us apart when he needs to. It's incredible how badly the calling has gone this year, on both sides of the ball. And Special Teams is on notice as well, we looked bad in the pre-season for the most part, on the defensive side of special teams, and BJ Sams is back to sucking, as his name implies, in the regular season. Ugh.

Since I never understood why we would want a coach that screwed up the Jets, I'm more than ready to send hip packing and LJ with him.

And yes, as much as I hate to say it, Tony does deserve a chance to win the big one. If he wants to go to a contender, let him go and cheer him on!

This was the second game of the rebuild! Everyone knew this was going to be a rough season. I was just as pissed off as anyone else watching the game, but we have to have a reasonable attitude about this. Being embarrased may actually help sort out the keepers from the winers. We had way too many holes to plug in one off-season. The sad truth is it's going to take a couple more years to build any quality depth.

The problem areas are glaring. I've never seen half of an o-line get blown up EVERY SINGLE PLAY. D-Mac can NOT start another game. He is an emergency back up at best. What the hell happened to our linebackers? 300 yards on the ground? Really? The scary part is, if Fargas wouldn't have sprained his wiener it would have been even worse.

By the way...The rookie corners looked pretty darn good. J. Page was pretty good but someone needs to remind him that it's alot easier to tackle when you use your arms. Pollard was fantastic. Tank looked pretty damn good too.

Lets give this thing a little time. It will probably be worth it.

I vote yes on Tebow 08. Guy's got guts and can take a hit unlike somebody *cough* Brodie Croyle *cough* There has to be a college coach that is ready for the pros. Why not get somebody like that?

This is what I think Carl Peterson should do before pulling the trigger for Brady Quinn. If I were Carl, and after witnessing what happen vs. Oakland yesterday in Arrowhead, I would make a phone call to Ted Thompson (The Packer's GM) and discuss a trade possibility involving Damon Huard and a conditional 6th rd. pick for Brian Brohm. And, if Brohm sees any action on the field, the 6th rd. pick may turn into a 5th rd. pick. Think about it.. It makes sense on both teams because for: 1) Green Bay was looking for a veteran all along to back up Rodgers. 2) The Chiefs would want more youth in that position in search of a potential franchise QB. 3) Green Bay would consider this trade since putting Brohm as their THIRD stringer on the depth chart behind Rodgers and Matt Flynn (I believe Brohm has a much higher upside than Flynn). AND 4) Make Brohm as our 3rd stringer behind Croyle and Thigpen (yea I know, he sux) so that he can sit back and learn Chan's offense and not have to see the field so we wouldn't give up a 5th instead of a 6th. In this way, we'll have a QB competition between Brohm and Croyle next year in River Falls of '09.. And by doing this, it will prevent us from drafting a QB in 2009 because I believe we have way too many pressing needs for this team such as Defensive Ends, LineBackers, Guards, Wide Receivers, and even a new center. I'm sorry, but Pat Thomas is not our franchise middle linebacker along with Free Agent bust Napoleon Harris. A guy that I'm rooting for the Chiefs to draft in the 2009 first round is that #58 from USC, Rey Maualuga!!

Hit me back with your response and let me know what you guys think with this idea.. GO CHIEFS!!

another year with Herm, another 0-2 start. This guy has proven one thing - he can't get a team ready for the start of a season, which is arguably the most important aspect of being a coach. I seriously doubt the Chiefs will be dumb enough to keep him on another year and maybe Carl should do a Al Davis and get rid of him now, after all the mantra is 'rebuilding' isn't it?

I'm driving Herm out of town, just waiting for the call. I was sad during that game, literally sad to see we gave up on this season that fast.

Tebow 08

You play to win the game?

No, Herm Edwards plays to not lose the game. He has completely destroyed my Chiefs! Does he have any idea that after he loses his job with the Chiefs, he will never be a head coach again.

When he took over the Jets they were a decent team, and made the play-offs the first year under him, (sound familiar?) then he ran the Jets into the ground, and then he ran out of town.

I know its two games into the season, but, this team actually looks worse than last years'

Does he even know what he is doing? It does not look like it.

P.S. What is he doing with Larry Johnson?

First of all. The whole wide-receiver/quarterback thing was a desperate attempt at getting a Slash look that Gailey had with Cordell. (first) Cordell never won anything. (Second) It was a flashback of the antics Marty Schottenheimer was pulling when his job was in jeopardy. Anyone remember Dale Carter trying to be Deion Sanders and all the talk about yardage chunks?

(I'm not even going to rip all you that want to bring Marty-ball back just a few years after you were calling for his head. Afterall, we have a Martyball convert as a head coach now who STINKETH.)

Second point is this: I hate the call for Cowher to be a coach. How many stinkin years did it take him to finally back into a Superbowl? How many? How many of you would have patience to wait another 12-14 years to be a wild-card contender that has a 9-7 record? Cowher is not the superman coach everyone tried to make him. We used to pound his Steelers all the time by playing Martyball. Of course we had Joe Montana and he had the SLASH which Herm is desperately trying to recreate.

The entire chiefs organization is going down in flames. I wonder if they have the reverse of expansion teams. Kick the chiefs out of the NFL after this year.

Yes, it's only a mere 2 games into the season, but it's told us alot about this team, and more importantly, the coaching staff, and 'out of sight' contributors. We've seen the flashes of talent that our guys have, but they're just not being used correctly. We tried this same shit last year, and it failed miserably. I'll give you 3 examples, and you can decide whether I'm on the right path or not, capiche`?

One: Playaction passing. Take a trip back in your mind, back to a glorious time, where Trent Green was throwing 300-400 yard games weekly, LJ/Priest were amongst the leagues best, and our offense was in the top 3 every year. Think about those offenses, what was different about them? No, not the obvious, that our QB was much better, silly.. Think about the playcalling. Team's knew we had a good RB, so what did we do? PLAY FREAKIN' ACTION their asses. They HAVE to respect the run, and we used it against them to get mismatches/slower reaction times out of the secondary, and made due with mediocre/just above average WR corps. I didn't watch this week's full game, but I haven't seen one playaction pass thus far. LJ has got incredible talent, and teams know that. But without the threat of passing, we are one dimensional, and they take that threat away. If I was the coordinator, I'd call PA passes ALL. DAY. LONG. At least then the D doesn't know exactly what we're doing. (They already know how to stop us now, we'll at least slow them down a bit.)

2. Offensive line players. Haven't we been through this cycle before, where we played old guys whose careers were coming to an end, when we had young guys who could have made a difference, albeit a very tiny one, or who had more upside? Oh yeah, it was called LAST FREAKIN' YEAR. And here we are, doing the same old dance to the same old song. Adrian Jones and Damion McIntosh, two guys who've never made a name for themselves, just getting by. And we have guys like Herb Taylor and even Barry Richardson, who truth-be-told, may not be ready to start. But hell with that kind of thinking. We're rebuilding. We're sucking ass already. Throw him in, give him a trial by fire, and he'll be better for it next year, when we actually need him, and have a chance to compete. F D-Mac and Adrian Jones. F them hard.

3. Playcalling/not utilizing guys correctly.
I'll go back to my argument with Sippio. We all knew he wasn't the fastest guy in the league by a long shot. So he'd be best used where? The redzone, of course. He only had one opportunity in the endzone, and he had a TD. But where did they mostly use him? To run long patterns in the middle of the field, where we a, didn't have enough time to get him the ball, b, where he was just slow enough to allow the D to catch up with him over a longer, stretched out pattern, or c, Thigpen threw it into the ground.

Mike Cox isn't being used as best he could be, either. He's a blocking FB, sure, but he's shown he has excellent hands. But I didn't see a swing pass to him, when Thigpen realized everyone downfield was covered. Oh yeah, that's right, Thigpen doesn't take his eyes off his primary target for the ENTIRE PLAY. I expect that from a highschooler. I don't expect that out of an NFL quarterback. When this is your profession, you better be able to be worth how much you're getting paid. Jamaal Charles isn't built to be the up-the-gut style of runner. He's made to go off-tackle, on pitches, tosses, screens, etc. We either can't execute those plays, or we simply don't want to.

Someone made the point that Tony should be traded to a contender, and as much as I hate to say it, he should be. He's deserving of a ring, or else he'll forever be compared to Marino. One of the greatest of all time, at his position, but never had a chance to wear that 12 oz. piece of gold, diamonds, and pride, on his finger. It's sad, really. We're not even close to being able to get him one, and he's close to retirement.

no overreaction, this had need to happen for quite sometime

herm constantly comes over to teams and makes them worse

He can take LJ with him, im sick of him too, ever since he got that big contract hes been a douche. He is almost 30 anyway, and all RBs literally die when they hit that age.

I say we try to go after brady quinn since he obviously will be there in cleveland without a starting job forever, right after we fire Herm.

Why did we even go after him in the first place? Seriously? the jets were 4-12 the last season he coached them. Hmmmm thats ironic.

He was our scouting coach way back when, thats all that he should be now.

Huge over reaction! It was a crap game, there's no doubt about it. But its two games into the season, calm down.

yeah, or get schottenheimer to play hm...we just need a complete overhaul