So Far So Good

Good or bad what happens to the Chiefs is Carl’s fault. That is the life of a GM. With the record he has without Schottenheimer, his playoff record and the lack of even a super bowl appearance I think even he would say that his reign can not be considered a total success. But you can not call it a failure. He has been great for Kansas City football. Carl’s biggest handicap is his PR department, he is horrible when it comes to Public Relations, Bob Gretz and the coward Rufus Dawes are PR nightmares and they work in the PR department! They want so much to prove the administration right that they don’t care how many fans they insult. Fans = customers and in business you don’t piss off the customers.

I am looking forward to the Chiefs this year, they are moving in the right direction and I expect them to be very completive. But I wont be at the stadium, not after the Raiders game last year.

Sean - not saying that Herm made smart moves with the offense - just that he put his focus where it was needed most. Herm likes to develop guys and that's why he gave Solari (with old playbook in hand) a shot at OC which, in retrospect, was not a great choice.

Zach - mine too. I really wanted to see him given a shot as the feature back earlier in his career. He's fast and one of toughest SOBs to evey set foot on the field - I really believe he would have made some noise.

Good Point Curt

If the Vikes got him that cheap it's pretty clear to anyone KC ran him off by not making him any kind of offer at all.

Vikings signed FB Tony Richardson to a two-year, $2.5 million contract. Meaning he was paid 1.25 million a year, hardly a FAT contract.

Jets signed Tony for $830,000 for one year.

(Might not want to try me on T-Rich facts he might be my favorite Chiefs of all-time and I got to meet him. He is one of the best role models any kid could have and just downright a great human being.)

The Vikings did give him a pretty fat contract though -- more than we were willing to offer, if I remember correctly. That's why he left.

The thing, though, about "dismantling" a great offense is that the players aren't all that makes up an offense. Herm also used a crappy playbook, horrid playcalling, and an atrociously incompetent Offensive Coordinator.

"what i remember reading was that T-Rich wanted about 6 mil a year"

No fullback has ever been paid 6mil a year in the NFL so I dont find that to be that true. Especially after he only got around 1-2mil from the Vikes (it might have been less)

oh WAH randy5k! Going to or even winning a superbowl is not the definitive measure of a GM. It IS the definitive measure of a TEAM and it's coaching. But the variables (injuries, officiating, the 'game of inches' factor, etc) are far too vast for any one person to be able to control them.

All a GM can do is give the Coaches what they say they need in the way of personnel - and if they win a superbowl, great! But it's more than a little shortsighted to say a team or a GM or a coach is a failure strictly on the basis of winning or losing, or what other teams have done or not done.

Would I like the see better results in the playoffs and the Superbowl? Sure! Am I going to condemn mgmt simply because they have not? No. I'm a fan through good times and bad, and I support the team, the mgmt and the owners to do the best they can, and I trust they are. From the looks of recent events, it looks like Carl Petersen might actually have evolved into a better GM than he's ever been. Carping about the past is an exercise in futility.

Every single team in our conference has been to the Superbowl INCLUDING THE SEAHAWKS WHO ARE NO LONGER IN OUR CONFERENCE but the Chiefs since King Carl took the throne.

what i remember reading was that T-Rich wanted about 6 mil a year and that the management evaluated his position and found he was playing just over 30% of the offensive plays and therefore didn't want to give up the big money.

as far as Carl's performance, i think he has done an admirable job. sure, he has made some mistakes but like some of the other guys have said i remember the years before him(maybe better than most) cuz i was a chiefs fan when they won the super bowl. there were a lot of lean years after that and they didn't get a lot better until Carl was hired. so i for one don't have anything bad to say about him. he is no saint but has done a fair to good job imho

totally off subject but can we all please use the forums over here? man i've been elsewhere and everyone is so negative that it would make a guy who loves the chiefs want to blow his freakin brains out. glad that people arent that way on the addict. that's why it's the best chiefs site out there

I also wrote a written apology on my MVN site, as some of you may have read. However, a scathing article by Gretz with his "I told you so, CP haters" approach pissed me off. And here's when I started to think about this a little differently.

So... I publicly apologized. I was wrong for believing that Carl Peterson would botch the rookie negotiations. The question is, why do haters have to apologize but Gretz and other CP apologists never had to apologize in years past for scathing Chiefs' fans who had the audacity to claim that the Chiefs weren't good enough?

Well the proof will be in the puddin... T-Rich signed a FA deal with the Jets recently and if all of a sudden they become a great running team... that alone will say it all about Tony.

Well that's news to me. I can say that I have heard Herm say that he doesn't believe the FB role is all that important in today's NFL but I would hate to think that could have been the reason why T-Rich moved on. I mean who really knows?

If there ever was anyone who proved how valuable a good blocking FB is, that guy would be Tony Richardson. Regardless of whether it was allowed or encouraged and by whom, the departure of T-Rich was a mistake of epic proportions.

AT the time T-Rich left, I remember seeing Herm in a live interview - probably on ESPN and he seemed to be acting like it was his decision to let him go... now, was he just taking the heat for Carl - possibly... it's certainly in his character to take responsibility rather than defer it to others. So, do I have actual facts? No, only that one comment from Herm when the fiasco went down.

The reason I think this one event was THE one that gutted the offense... is I think the way they treated Tony Richardson had a LOT to do with Roaf kicking in his cards when he did. I know the whole Oline was very close to T-Rich, in particular Roaf, and his leaving was not well received in the locker room as a whole. Certainly LJ was peeved about it.

Double D is correct that Tony wasn't ran off he wasn't offered the contract that he wanted which would fall into CPs doing.

Also the retirement of Roaf and Shields hasn't exactly helped Herm. Nor the Trent Green injury, Priest Holmes injury. The offense just grew old, it happens.

What I meant to say in the 2nd to last paragraph is "what would have gotten your attention" . . . etc

I believe Herm was as caught off guard as anybody at the timing of Roaf's retirement announcement just before training camp. The whole reason Shields even came back for one more season is because his cohort Roaf led him to believe that they should/would both be there. NO way you can hold Herm accountable for the Roaf/Shields retirements much less the Vermeil era's clear inability to properly reload the OL through the draft or free agency. Vermeil was all about instant gratification, not a long-term dynasty.

I'll say it again. The offense that fell to Herm was a high end producer but the defense was in utter shambles which, at best, made us a 1 and done playoff team. As a defensive-minded coach with proven success at developing later round defensive talent, limited # of draft choices, and finite cap space, what would you have if you were in his shoes? What would you have gotten your attention first and foremost - a successful offense or a no-show defense? Don't even go there . . .

CurtMerz - Look, I was unhappy as anybody at the loss of T-Rich but I have never once heard that it was Herm who ran him off. My impression was that T-Rich wasn't too keen on his contract re-up and felt he could do better ($) elsewhere. What information do you have to show that it was all Herm's call/fault?

Hey DD: Herm did run Tony Richardson off as soon as he arrived - and we're still looking for a fullback! And everyplace T-Rich has been since they've had a 1000 yard runner - including last years ROY Adrian Petersen.

Most of the other personnel changes on Offense I have no issue with, but more than anything it was the loss of Richardson that gutted the offense. Even last year's oline would have looked far better if someone... ANYone could have make a block in the backfield.

I totally agree with SeanB about Gailey. His offenses rush the ball and go to the playoffs.

I kind of like letting an offense go from 1st-16th-31st and going by the strategy of "keep the game close and fight it out in the end" is dismantling the offense. But I do think he's made a great move in bringing in Chan Gailey to finally address the problem. So I applaud him for that.

Correction, unlike Vermeil, Herm did not dismantle anything, offense or otherwise. Herm was handed a proven, but aging offense and an abysmal defense. Herm correctly prioritized what needed to be addressed and continues to do so imo.

Anyway, there is no overestimation on my part - CP indeed has always had the last word on personnel decisions including whether or not he buys into his coach-du-jour's vision. Need I point out that he (will go)/(has gone) so far as to override/veto his coaches' draft preferences? Don't believe it - see Exhibit A, LJ. So yes, for better or worse, he has a lot of accountability.

To be fair, you can't really blame CP for the team not winning in the playoffs, though. He still hired the personnel that got us that far. And just as he "allowed" Dick Vermeil to dismantle a great defense, he has also "allowed" Herm Edwards to dismantle a great offense. But how can you blame that on Peterson? Head coaches all have their own ideas about how a team should be put together and run. There's no point in hiring one if you are going to micro-manage every minute detail.

I think people overestimate Carl Peterson's job description sometimes.

"Judging his tenure as GM requires some nuance" - Sudden

Easily the best line in this thread!

Yes there was a five year plan and it can be found. A quick Google search for “Carl Peterson five year plan” of newspapers archives from the 1990s reveals the following quotes.

``I should have said, in retrospect, a five-year plan to get to the playoffs,'' Peterson, 55, joked.
Kansas City Star Sep 6, 1998

Peterson jokes that as he enters his fourth year with the club, he is "about a year away" from his five-year plan to build a Super Bowl champion.
Wichita Eagle Sep 6, 1992

``I've taken a razzing about my five-year-plan,'' Peterson said of the blueprint
Kansas City, Star Aug 25, 1996

Brilliant points Double D. The CP Era should not be viewed as either a wasted tenure or a glaring success. Like all GMs, he has made his mistakes. I think the thing that makes his mistakes so unbearable for a lot of fans is that you can argue those mistakes cost us a shot at our first Super Bowl 40 years now. In his era, we have had a few teams that could have done it, that could have captured the ring, but it seems there is always one ingredient missing and the players he let go (Gannon, Tait, Donnie) could have been that ingredient. That's the CP curse. Because he has given us teams that are consistently competitive, that make the playoffs, we can highlight each mistake and say "See, CP ruined this team, if he didn't trade/release/bluff in negotiations with this guy or sign/overpay that guy, we would've been wearing rings."

The thing is, and the reason this thread started, is that criticism of CP often borders on delerium and vitriol (just read the comment section on the KCStar's website under any Chiefs article). Judging his tenure as GM requires some nuance, some ability to see the successes and failures. It just seems that for the last five years, all of the talk about CP has focused on the failures. So we, the ones who understand that he has put a consistently quality product on the field but failed to elevate the team to that next level, feel the need to defend the guy when he does something right because all the chatter about him for the last 5 years has been negative to the point of absurdity.

I consider it a mixed bag.

To name a few, I consider CP's greatest moves to include the likes of this year's draft/signings, LJ, DT, Okoye, Neil Smith, James Hasty, Dale Carter, Tony G, Trent Green, Marcus Allen, Jared Allen, LJ, Priest, Roaf, Shields, Waters, Schottenheimer, Cunningham, and the fact the Chiefs were a dominant force throughout the 90s. During that decade, if there was one AFC team certain to win a Superbowl had they made it through the playoffs, it was without a doubt the Chiefs. Even though NFC teams dominated the league druing that decade, the Chiefs were the one AFC team that undeniably pwned the NFC during that same period. Arrowhead roared and was feared by all. I give CP much of the credit for bringing that about.

At the same time, CP's biggest flops would have to include the losses of such greats as Rich Gannon, Neil Smith, Donnie Edwards, John Tait, and T-Rich. The fact that we have not even been to a Superbowl during his tenure is huge. I believe that things like the John Tait and Ryan Sims holdouts were unnecessary, a bit unseemly, and ultimately detrimental the long-term health of the organization. It bothers considerably that Vermeil was allowed to effectively dismantle one of the greatest defenses ever. I do think that CP is arrogant and can be two-faced and those things hurt his credibility with players & his ability to business with agents.

I was on board with many of the pickups that's he made that did not work out - Bono, McGlockton, Morris, etc. By the same token, I was not happy when CP brought in an aging Montana or any part of the Grbac nightmare. I don't care about what the stats say, Grbac was a crappy QB supported by a great team.

The next couple of years look to be CP's last hurrah as GM and I hope for the sake of us fans, guys like Brian Waters and Tony G, and maybe even for own his sake, that this team quickly becomes a durable contender and wins the Superbowl. All the above deserve it.

What did Carl do for the Chiefs? Well if you were at a pre Carl game you saw 20 percent attendance, and 4 win seasons were looked upon as a success. During the Carl period we have the longest stretch of sold out games in the league. Were the two seasons we had Montana a failure? How about the Vermeal period? If we dont watch it the Hunt famiy is going to get sick and tired of all the negativity and sell to an owner like Glass, and then we are all screwed.

Crane--I have to disagree with you about Rich Gannon. The worst move Carl made in my opinion is letting Donnie Edwards walk. But again, that was because Greg Robinson and DV didn't think they needed him and look what happened.

Carl's main job as far as personnel is to acquire the types of player's his coaches want, not necessarily he(carl peterson) wants.

Well if you were joking then yeah it was lost. Irony, sarcasm, etc. are hard things to express over the internet. :-D

I can see the use of irony is wasted here...

I know those weren't directed at me, and I don't even care that you made any of them. I think most of the ones I picked out were funny, and that's partly why I picked them out. :-)

Just using them as examples.

looks like my greatest hits...

when someone comes out and acts like Chester McG made 4 pro bowls and 3 all pros (sic) with the Chiefs I reserve the right to ask "what the hell" in caps.

none of those quotes were directed at you btw Sean.
Quit being so....geh, for lack of a better word.

CurtMerzFan, how am I being unreasonable here? I'm engaging in perfectly civil discussion. If you would, please highlight for me what I have said here that is less civil than any arguments made by Crane on this same topic, and I will do my best to curb those behaviors in the future since it offends you so much.

"I am away for a little bit and I come back to a King Carl love fest orgy?

Good God, someone spiked the punch."

"You guys are creaming your jeans because we got our draft picks signed…THAT’S KING CARL’S JOB"

"AND WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT STJOEMO?"

"I missed all your stats because they were with other teams, not true or irrelevant…"

These are all quotes by Crane.

Now for the most insulting/unnecessary things I've said today:

"Get a grip on reality."

...

So do you see my point here? Why are you jumping down my throat for having a discussion and defending a point? Not to mention that you choose to single me out specifically, when I'm clearly not the only one on my side of and involved in the argument. I know I get fired up sometimes on AA -- who doesn't? -- but I've done nothing wrong here, man. Settle down.

rather than saying "im sorry carl" ill be pleased to say..."thank you Clark"...surely you relize that Clark has more to do with getting everyone in camp at a reasonable time than Carl has to do with signed players...Clark wont take Carl's BS, and carl knows hes on the hot seat

I am keeping it civil - that's something the Star's website knows nothing about. Sean thinks every comment I make is directed at him so he feels the need to reply to everything I write even if it is the facts.
Sean didn't even say Marcus Allen...but he feels the need to make other people's points for them apparently.

It is CP's fault when free agents don't pan out...he's the one the buck stops with and the hand that signs the checks. You can't coach a DT much more than "bust the line and get to the QB/RB". McGlockton was on his "money" contract in KC and after he got paid he quit playing hard. End of story. Vanover was a great talent wasted on criminal activity along with Bam Morris, and Joe Horn...back when we tried the Raider way of problem players and we learned our lesson.

I liked Marcus Allen for the record...and Derrick Alexander...and Mighty Mouse etc. I have an old dog named Montana bc I got him when Joe Played for KC. I'm a Chiefs fan, but just because I highlight some of the bad moves and signings we made...the glass half full guys decide to dogpile me because I'm not singing their happy songs. Just bc I bring up some of the bad things, doesn't mean I didn't see the good too. The Chiefs made a lot of strides with me by having a good draft...I just want and need more to get these last few years taste out of my mouth. That's it.
*heads back to the Sean picket line*

Sad, sad, sad... SeanB, Crane is every bit as entitled to his opinion as you are to yours... even if he is completely and utterly filled with bitterness about the Chiefs - but if you two are going to keep going postal on each other, I'm sure everyone else including me would appreciate it if you would not do it here on AA - that kind of pi$$ya$$ed crap belongs over on the KC Star's website.

Marcus Allen was brought here under Carl Peterson, Crane. That's the point. Just because all you can do is talk about the bad and ignore the good doesn't mean the good didn't happen.

And just because a Pro Bowler wasn't productive with the Chiefs, it's not really Peterson's fault. Sounds like a coaching problem to me, or something along those lines. It's not like Carl Peterson can make the sacks FOR somebody.

How soon we forget - Grbac lost the playoff game for us in 1997 when we were 13-2 against the Denver Broncos 14-10, coming back from injury after Gannon had won 6 straight. Who cares what he did in 2000? We went 7-9. Gannon meanwhile comes back to kill us in 1999, and knocks us out of the playoffs. 2002 Gannon wins MVP...Grback released in 01, played 1 year for the Ravens and retired. 2003 Gannon takes the Raiders to the SuperBowl. You guys are defending Grbac why again? We kept the wrong guy!!! Carl didn't want to pay Gannon. I'm not bashing the Chiefs, I'm bashing some of the decisions and signings that were made. Just because the most argumentative person on Earth says Tony G Derrick Thomas and Ccompany in response to my comment you guys get your panties wadded up.

Morris got hurt I will give you that but he was a wasted pick, a reach on a WR. Snow was a bust before he got hurt.

AND WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT STJOEMO?
MCGLOCKTON WENT TO ALL 4 PRO BOWLS WITH THE RAIDERS AND FYI PRO-BOWL/ALL PRO ARE THE SAME THING.]\

McGlockton had 1 sack in 98, and 1.5 sacks in 99 and 4 in 2000. We cut him and his 30 million contract (8.5 m cap number in 01)... his time in Kansas City was disappointing. His frequent tendency to jump offside often gave back in penalties more yards than he had in tackles for losses.

I missed all your stats because they were with other teams, not true or irrelevant...and who said anything about Marcus Allen?

Crane you are so so wrong, like he said Grbac was a 4000 yard passer, derrick alexander set the chiefs' record for receiving yards in a season, Mighty Mouse lead the NFL in interception yards the year he played for the Chiefs, Chester was a 4 time pro bowler and 3 time all pro, Greg Hill was third among rookies in rushing yards and was behind Marcus Allen while he was there. And since you missed out on all these stats I thought i would let you know that Marcus Allen was a damn good running back.

percy snow got hurt,vanover played well if you were a fan back then you cheered when he ran that ball back after being grabbed by the back of his neck,morris injured not all carls fault

Imagine that...SeanBCool 1st in line. Since I stand behind my arguments I will cross the Sean B Cool picket line that gets longer by the day and defend my points.

A.) Its tough to find his exact quote since Carl said it before the internet age - You got any evidence for saying that's untrue? Didn't think so.
How about this saying it is. Five year plan evidence are all these people dreaming about this five year plan? No.

B.) Lucking out with draft picks is a league wide thing too. Don't hijack my argument by listing all our good players in 15 years, I was talking about the bad picks and bad free agents.

C. He played in 9 games...and still hasn't won any.

D. ) Which there was no D. but anyway the Patriots were 4th in AFC East at 5-10 in 89, then 1-15 in 1990 and went to one wild card game and lost between 1987-1995. My point wasn't so much the record but about how much they righted the ship with franchise QBs like Bledsoe and Brady.

You should go to law school where you'll get paid to argue, but unfortunately I think you might starve to death. How are your second favorite teams doing?

Crane, your comment is tragically flawed.

A.) Carl Peterson never mentioned a Super Bowl in 5 years. That's simply untrue.

B.) You act as if the Chiefs are the only team that ever drafts/signs busts. News flash: Busts happen more often than not, and it's a league-wide thing. Not to mention all the draft successes since Carl Peterson. Derrick Thomas, Tony Gonzalez, Larry Johnson, Derrick Johnson, Jared Allen, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, Will Shields.. not to mention players like Priest Holmes, Willie Roaf, Eddie Kennison and Brian Waters in fee agency. And Elvis Grbac was a 4000 yard passer. I'd hardly consider that "horrid".

C.) Where are you getting 0-9 from? Brodie Croyle has only started 6 games in his entire NFL career.

D.) How were the Patriots "far far worse"? They fielded playoff and even Super Bowl teams in the 80s and 90s.

Get a grip on reality.

PS

Lets not forget King Carl's most recent bonehead move in not getting something out of Greg Wesley because he didn't want to trade him to Denver, a div. rival...instead gets in a pissing match with him only to let him go to the Raiders and get nothing for him.

Nice youth movement move.

I am away for a little bit and I come back to a King Carl love fest orgy?

Good God, someone spiked the punch.

You guys are creaming your jeans because we got our draft picks signed...THAT'S KING CARL'S JOB, and one of the few personnel responsibilities he has left. You pat your mailman's back each day too?

What about King Carl's colossal F ups?

Drafting Ryan Sims
Letting go of Rich Gannon (IMHO -worst move by KCP)

Carl Peterson was hired by the Chiefs in 1989
with a 5 year plan to go to the Super Bowl. Where's my tape of that game?? Oh yeah, right between Jimmy Hoffa's body, and the tape of the Zapruder film from the grassy knoll.

Every team in the AFC West has been to the Super Bowl since King Carl was hired- but the Chiefs!

1990 - Denver
1995 - San Diego
1998 - Denver
1999 - Denver
2003 - Oakland
2006 - Seattle (was in AFC West when King Carl was hired)

Horrid draft picks: Percy Snow, Trezelle Jenkins, Harvey Williams, Greg Hill, Victor Riley, Sylvester Morris and Ryan Sims, all as first rounders.

Horrid free agents: Brock Middlebrook, Chester McGlocklin, Derrick Alexander, Carlton Gray, Cris Dishman, Lin Elliott, Daniel Pope, Dan Williams, Mark McMillan, Tamarick Vanover, Bam Morris, Steve Bono, Elvis Grbac, Ray Crockett, Glen Cadrez and Vonnie Holliday.

The ticket price increase from 2003 to 2004 was 15%, the highest one year jump in franchise history. That's not all, King Carl has been gouging on parking too, charging up to $24 to park in a reserved lot that the Chiefs don't even own...Jackson County does.

You guys that bring up the pre-Carl days - that's all fine and dandy, but New England is a far better "rags to riches" story than the Chiefs with Carl....they were far far worse. The only reason I bring them up is that they did the most important thing thing to win in the NFL and that's developing a franchise QB and building the team out from there.

Don't bother making Brodie defenses because:
A. I know them all and disagree
B. 0-9 is indefensible.

Don't hate because my opinion isn't a ray of sunshine...I'm just realistic about our Chiefs.

I have never felt any reason to hate Carl Peterson, and I have never understood all the baseless hatred for him from others. Some people will sit there and talk about how much they love Larry Johnson and then turn around and want to lynch Peterson. I think people forget things like LJ only being a Chief because Carl Peterson overrode Dick Vermeil in the draft.

The list goes on.

I'm proud to have a GM like CP. He's great at what he does, he's fair, but he doesn't take shit. I love that about the guy. I know most of the CP haters won't be anywhere to be found today though, because they don't have a leg to stand on.

Onto other things:

It worried me at first that Dorsey wasn't fairing well against Brian Waters. But then I remembered something -- this IS Brian Waters we're talking about here. And it's an excellent point that going against Waters every day will only make the Bayou Bruiser more of a force.

As far as DaJuan Morgan, I'm still skeptical of him. He didn't get a whole lot of playing time in college, so there's not much to evaluate. But I personally wasn't too impressed with his highlights when I watched them. I would be surprised if he started as early as week 1. I think if he takes the starting job from either Jarrad Page or Bernard Pollard, it will be after he's at least had some in-game experience.

I'd like to add that I am unbelievably excited about this coming season. Go Chiefs!

Correct it he will.. I almost sounded a tad bit like YODA. I have to agree that Clark Hunt is going to succeed his father to whom I love and miss. RIP LH and never to be forgotten. I said on a post of another site that I am sure that CH had some form of saying and a big push on getting who we have signed ...signed.

The one things I am most afraid of this coming season is a BLACKOUT! That would blow...I am not sure what I would do come a Sunday that I couldn't watch a Chiefs game..hell I go nutty on the Bi-Week. I say we will go 3-1 in the first quarter of the season which will only keep our Chiefs going hard and eliminating a potential BLACKOUT.....though I fear going below that and an additional loss or two the following Quarter will for sure bring in a great chance of a BLACKOUT...

Must drink a BEER!

First on Carl - I have posted a few times but not with this site as I am new here and love it! Carl to me is an astounding GM on the financial side of it and wouldn't hurt for him to stay out of the football player operations etc.. a tad bit and the fact that we signed all but one of our draft picks...WOW!!! That speaks volume to me. Regardless of how the season goes I hope Carl comes back. Just look at our CAP situations and that should explain why. We aren't bad there.

Secondly- Brodie Croyle I believe in giving ANY player a chance and with a better offensive line this year then I feel it is his moment to prove otherwise. The kid has a heck of an arm with unbelievable speed behind the pig skin! I have all of last years games on tape and many balls should have been caught by a defender, but with the velocity at which he throws the ball they simply couldn't catch them. Having the play calling simplified is only going to help him not to mention the fact that he is going to have more freedom to change the play himself at the line. I could go on...just have to attend some FF things....But I believe in Croyle.

Dorsey and Waters? AWeSOME!!!! It is only good for Dorsey and he will learn from it and only grow. You think Dorsey likes that? Correct it he will.

Wow.. I am going to have to do an earlier post, but GO CHIEFS regardless of season.. Love em 3rd on my chart...1st being family, 2nd kids and then CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crazy day, gang, but I will definitely be back to check this out and comment later on tonight. Looks like we've got a helluva thread going here!!

Real Chiefs fans need to go give Matt Sohn over at Pro Football Weekly:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Co... a blast of gas; look at this crap he wrote!

MasterBlaster--I'll take that as an "I'm sorry Carl" Just admit it when I'm right and you'll be ok.

Vrod74-MikeSD--that is correct, some people look at the record and the record only. Carl doesn't play the game. He has always...ALWAYS tried his best to give his head coach what they want. Carl does far more than just personnel moves. He is responsible for the entire franchise and has always done what is best for the Chiefs.

I'm no apologist for CP, I don't think he needs it, I'm simply glad he's done what he's done. If he hadn't been there the last 17-18 years, I dare say some of you reading this site wouldn't be a Chiefs fan.

I too am excited about the rebuilding, and I don't feel the Chiefs will be as bad as some predict. Anything can and will happen, that has been proven in the NFL for many years.

Great comments, keep them coming!