Dr. Favrenstein Revisted

Crane, I'm not trying to catch you making a mistake at all. Why would I do that? When I asked if "by 'Surt' you were referring to 'Surtain' " I was clarifying the statement in order to make a valid response.

And "Don't tell you what to do"? Are you serious? How does "Please explain" qualify as me ordering you around? I honestly don't understand why you always have to act like this, even when I'm just trying to have a discussion with you about the issue at hand (being Favre).

King Carl is having problems coming into the new age of the mega-salary cap NFL. When he came to KC he took over a small market team that HAD to sell out Arrowhead in order to compete with other larger market teams on the playing field. At that time, it not only made sense to be frugal, it was necessary.

For the moment, times have changed - drastically. But the situation is NOT stable with regard to the cap and the CBA with the players union. Specifically rookie contracts are about to be shorn of their zillions in the next CBA. Being cautious with the cap and the FA mkt until the situation becomes clearer is only good business, and necessary for a small market team. Look around the NFL and you'll see the other small market teams are doing likewise except for MN who is desperately trying to get a new stadium financed by taxpayers. They're down to their last chance to get political support, so they're selling out the future to win now. If they fail, they have to move and will go to a bigger mkt who can support their new fiscal situation.

While teams are now in the world of trillion dollar TV deals and they have to spend 60% of revenue on player contracts, KC is STILL a small market team with their total revenue currently in decline based on season ticket sales.

The small market facet of managing the Chiefs future stability is not going to change, and while I expect the 60% of revenue number for the cap is forged in stone, I can see why King Carl is hedging his bets with who he hands out the keys to the kingom to.

I'm not mincing my words on King Carl at all. Fact is, I dont think he gets the credit he deserves for the overall quality of job he's done. If you've ever been the main man in a business venture, you learn pretty damn quick you cannot do things by yourself. Learning this, you realize your job is to become a team builder, and in order to do that, you HAVE to give the folks you hire the lattitude to make decisions - aka mistakes. Is Carl ultimately accountable for the mistakes his hires make. Sure he is, but you cannot slam the man's process just because his hires screwed the pooch.

The one really big thing I would hope Carl can learn is how desperately important it is to get high picks signed early. Several of the busts we've had with high picks might have done much better on the field if they'd been signed early. It's pretty clear to the whole world Dorsey is going to get a zillion dollar contract with about 25 million guaranteed. Nothing is going to change that. With KC's cap situation, Carl might as well step up now as later.

People slam CP for Tait and other FA/trade fiascos, but they dont give him the same amount of ink for his successes. Fact is, Tait was a panty-waste, bean-counting prude who should NEVER have been on the field with real men.

This aside, no GM hits on every contract, and neither does Carl. What Carl has done well is hire talented men to run the football side, and then supported them and their philosophies to the nth degree - and no boss can do more. I wish I'd had more bosses like that in my lifetime. Did he screw the pooch on some coaching hires? Hindsight is 20/20 so it's hard to say they were wrong at the time. Did King Carl do his best to hire the best and win on the field. I have to say that question gets answered with a resounding YES. I haven't forgotten the 20 years of dark ages before he came to KC.

Regardless of costs, it's blindingly apparent we are NOT going to develop a franchise QB by trading for castoffs or signing FA guys to their 2nd contract. The only way we're going to make this work is to draft a guy and deal with his learning curve. If we're going to go that way, we have to find a guy who can make all the throws, and is fundamentally a man of high character. I think Brodie fits both requirements. Does he develope into a top QB? Only Brodie can write that story. If he does, I'm sure Carl will pay him the going rate - and not a halfpenney more!

Crane Says:

The safe route is the CHEAP route. QB is the most expensive position, potentially for the most years.

It kills him to write big checks.

PS I agree with Zach. Our line is far too shoddy to protect a 34 year old let alone a 38 year old. Farve might as well throw himself in front of a semi rather than be behind our line.

You're reaching trying to catch me making some mistake...with "Surt". Who else could that possibly be? Oh, and don't tell me what to do.

and remember the Browns are going to have to make a decision about Anderson or Quinn next year.

I think we just need to wait this year and see how it goes. I think most people would agree that we are not making the playoffs this year. Could Favre change that, possibly, but I still think we have to many questions on the OL and in our secondary.

Yeah but if we are going to spend some doe in free agency why not go after a young quarterback with some upside. The fact is we are rebuilding.....everyone has accepted that. You have to remember just how old Favre is, and that he will retire in probably 3 years max. That leaves us with a cadre of players in their prime.....and the one position where we need leadership more than any other we are back searching for the answer.

My position here is not based on Croyle at all. I think he is going to work out, but if he pisses down his leg again this year at least we know where we stand, and we go into 2009 with a clear cut priority, where as if we bring in an aging veteran who then retires.....then where do you go? Adam you mention about spending dough in free agency too, but if we are going to do that why not bring in 2nd contract players, or even a quarterback (quinn anderson has been mentioned).

Bottom line...Favre makes us instantly better in 2008 and 2009, and maybe in 2009 could make a run into the playoffs, but thats not good enough, thats the same philosophy....bring people in and win quick....that has hampered this franchise for the entire time I have been a fan. To win in the NFL you need to build a team that can compete year after year. The pats had one of the best teams in history last year and still didn't bring home the trophy...and how many years have the colts been a pretty good football team....one title. I want a quarterback thats going to be the man for 10 years...and Croyle probably isn't that guy(it is possible though if he gets a line and can survive a season)....but neither is Favre.

It was cool seeing Montana in a Chiefs uniform, and they were in contention....once. Bottom line we have been down that road many times before, and its time to go a different direction.

Two years from now, though? Joe didn't have this good of a supporting cast of skills players around him on offense. Actually, nowhere near as good. And are defense is going to be pretty damn good if we can get some respectable play out of our corners. I see no reason why the Chiefs couldn't be serious contenders in 2009, especially if we spent some dough in free agency. This is the age of parity, after all.

Even if we knew today that Brodie is a bust, I would still say no on Favre. A one or two year band aid on the QB position does nothing at this point. Unfortunately, we don't have the offensive line, complimentary (proven) receivers past D-Bowe, and seasoned defense (especially the secondary) to make it a worthwhile proposition. Montana inherited a top 5 defense and passable offense when we brought him in, with QB being arguably our biggest need. That's just not the case right now. As much as I hate to admit it, we've got to ride out this rebuilding for at least another year or two. I do think if Brodie flops, we have shots at a good QB either via trade (Brady Quinn if Anderson proves out for another year) or via the draft (I think realistically we will be in the #5-#10 range on our pick next year). I'm praying that Brodie pans out, because if we have to draft a QB, that just puts us another couple of years behind in our goal of being a relevant team again. I'd hate to see D-Bowe going into his free agency year three years from now knowing he doesn't have a proven arm to throw to him. I think it's a pipe dream to assume Favre could take us to the promised land, even next season.

JASON:

Some teams (like the Redskins) go over the cap, bu the way it's set up that will bite those teams in the ass later on down the road.

And who knows? Maybe he will want another $10 M-plus payday? Hard to say what the guy is thinking as of right now.

The cap is ridiculously high, Jason. We are just frugal.

also i wouldnt be too suprised is surtain doesnt even start or play too much for us after the first couple of weeks those youngans are gonna give him a run for his money(9 mil i think)

what i was gettin at is that minn has spent A TON of money in the last few years and they just keep on spending a la the redskins i just dont understand how some teams get that off and some cant seem to manipulate the cap

thinking about the money, if farve wasnt in it for the money then why didnt he play for the league minimum so that GB could throw the other 12 mil this year and then some on moss who favre really wanted?

How am I reaching? Please explain.

You're reaching Sean. And yeah, I would. His burnt smells like french toast.

Crane:

Does "Surt" mean Surtain? You would trade our ONLY veteran CB and a 2nd round pick for a 39-year-old QB who will probably only play another year, maybe two?

Good post Merz...but don't mince words about King Carl.

The safe route is the CHEAP route. QB is the most expensive position, potentially for the most years.

It kills him to write big checks.

Let's not talk about Rich Gannon...still makes me sick.

If Adam is right and Brodie really aint the guy... then the Chiefs need to find out asap and bringing in Farve would skew the team by making them temporarily better for one season while simultaneously screwing the draft position they would get without Farve. In other words, Farve would make us just enough better to keep us out of the top 10-12 picks next year.

However, if Brodie IS the guy and we go 9-7 or 8-8, then we'll still get a top 15 pick (like the year we got DJ at 15). And this problem isn't just a first round thing - Farve would skew the draft lower all the way down the draft board.

Maybe getting Farve makes us 20% better offensively than we would be without him, but you can make the argument that having him for one year would make us 20% weaker for each of the subsequent 5 years after he's gone than we would be without him.

In spite of King Carl's dubious reputation for talent, I dont think over all he's done that badly. Nobody hits on every pick and CP is no exception. But I think the real flaw in his drafts has always been his unwillingness to court greatness by drafting and developing a QB - he's always gone the safe route and signed proven free agent QB's who are competent at best but never have a real shot at greatness. And his miss on Gannon is simply unforgiveable because it drove Rich into the arms of the Raiders.

We need to pass on Bret Farve. For all the right reasons.

are you guys saying "passed his prime" for some kind of QB pun? I think its "past" his prime.
Just want to be fair to a certain special someone out there, I can correct others too.

it seems as though its ALWAYS about the money no matter the situation. i would be SHOCKED if he plays for less than what he had comeing in GB

Personally, I'd rather have a passed-his-prime, retread HoF QB than an unproven, injury-riddled one who's never won an NFL game. Congrats! You guys brought out my inner Brodie basher. My only worry would be Favre outside the West Coast offense. Still, I'm afraid we could wait 'til infinity on Croyle and still have no luck, so I think Favre would be worth the shot. The last time we brought in a retread QB who was on his way to the Hall, we ended up in the AFC Championship.

And I don't think Favre will really care about money, to answer the Vikings question. The guy is loaded. My prediction is Baltimore or Tampa Bay, unfortunately.

I love the guy, and if he wants to play he will find a home.....but 2 things pop out in my mind.

1. Favre is a gunslinger....and he throws interceptions trying to stab in the dagger. Not what this Chiefs team is going to need. We need someone to take care of the football. Can Brodie do that? Donno, but Favre, at least IMO, is not a good fit for what this offense is going to do.

2. We need to stay the course with rebuilding. This year we will find out if Brodie will be our qb or not, plain and simple. Throw in Favre and it puts our entire plan back for however long he plays. The fact of the matter is, he is on his way down, same way that Trent was (although I think Favre's slide will be a little slower because he is a tough old goat). I want to see a quarterback leading this team in 2 years that is on its way up, not clinging to his career.

Its about time the Chiefs found a Favre/Montana/Elway/Manning/Brady/Marino of our own, even if it takes 5 years I am a patient man, but I am tired of the retreads.

Absolutely correct Jeremy, just like I said before, Favre is the most overrated quarterback in the league, but everyone hears the name Favre, and they can't help but cream their jeans.

Farve is passed his prime, and makes too many mistakes.

He would hurt the development of our new young team, and would derail everything the club has been trying to do the last 6 months!

NO TO FARVE!!!

He needs to hang it up. Check out Sal Paliotino's article on him. Nothing spectacular in the last years of his career. OUCH!

lol Adam...*pats back* I know its tough with all the Brodie lovers.

I would hate to imagine the level of bitching in KC about a Farve 3-4 pick game. *shudder*

Ted Thompson at GB would rather eat his own frozen feces in December on the 50 yard line than let Favre go to a division rival and that's not to mention the fans in GB and their riot. What a sticky situation. Some GB fans feel differently

If I was GB I wouldn't release him, or trade Aaron Rodgers now. I'll trade Surt and a 2nd round pick for him....and the rights to Favre in 09 when he pulls this crap again.

how in the hell would minn have the salary cap room to sign a guy like farve?

I think everyone should be proud of me. I actually wrote about Favre and the quarterback situation without bagging on you know who. It was tough, but I'm going to meetings now :)

Yeah, I tend to agree. While I would love to see Farve wearing the Red & Gold, it just doesn't make sense in the direction we are heading (assuming Herm and Carl stay true to the path)

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com

Yep - taking Favre would be perceived as totally inconsistent with the whole "youth movement" gospel.

It's not like he's spent his whole career with the Packers anyway.

It's very likely that Favre could only play one more season. Jason Taylor only intends to play one more, and he's in a similar boat as Favre.

I'm thinking the Vikings are likely to end up with Favre if the Packers don't keep him. I suppose the Bears are a possibility as well, but it's not like they've made any moves in the offseason for new quarterbacks. The Ravens will almost certainly not be interested.

Neither will the Chiefs, for that matter. I guarantee you Herm Edwards would not want Favre at this point in the QB's career, especially with all the faith thrown behind Croyle and Herm's youth-movement mindset.

Well they better get their supplies ready...

Peasants will be carrying torches and wielding pitchforks in and around GB if Mr #4 ever dons anything other than a green and yellow uni.

Again chances are slim to none, and slim just left the building. Favre will be a Viking, Bear, or Raven if he is not a Packer.