Comments on: The Where's The Beef Campaign http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/ A Kansas City Chiefs blog Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:23:12 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Crane http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11911 Crane Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:04:55 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11911 I'm getting this thing to 100 comments come hell or high water.  I never said anyone is stupid, and its totally my perogative if I want to call conpiracy or King Carl or whatever else.  If fans of ArrowHead Addict want the "Jay and Jon" Chiefs homer show...you guys can get together on Skype and talk all you want about how everyone is ovverreacting and paint a hopeful picture for another 10-6 no playoff season.  Adam and Zach can post it and we'll watch the 3 comments from Scott, Tim and George Bush that agree with you and be done with it.  When you read my stuff from now on, have your mom pack a grain of salt in your sack lunch. I’m getting this thing to 100 comments come hell or high water.  I never said anyone is stupid, and its totally my perogative if I want to call conpiracy or King Carl or whatever else.  If fans of ArrowHead Addict want the "Jay and Jon" Chiefs homer show…you guys can get together on Skype and talk all you want about how everyone is ovverreacting and paint a hopeful picture for another 10-6 no playoff season.  Adam and Zach can post it and we’ll watch the 3 comments from Scott, Tim and George Bush that agree with you and be done with it.  When you read my stuff from now on, have your mom pack a grain of salt in your sack lunch.

]]> By: jay http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11813 jay Sun, 23 Mar 2008 00:41:14 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11813 A couple points.  1. Adam, you guys are acting as if none of our young guys can step up in any of those open positions.  A lot of times all a guy needs is a shot, we have plenty of guys who haven't gotten a shot.  So I don't agree that there are that many spots to fill.  2. The salary floor is 100 Mil, so this idea that we are somehow saving 30-40 Mil this year by being cheap is wrong.  The cap is 116 Mil, so at most we're saving 16 Mil.  After signing Allen and a top 5 Draft pick it will be even less.  Also, there is absolutely no correlation between spending and winning in the NFL, the only place that is seen is MLB and that is because of differences of 100 Mil in some cases, but even then the Yankees haven't won the series in a long time, even they are being much more frugal this year because that strategy hasn't produced in recent years.  3.  If we had acquired two or three of the better free agents that were available this year, which was likely doable for the Chiefs, we still wouldn't be a guaranteed contender.  After adding another year of good solid draftees and fielding a team, we can get those guys next year that can put us over the top.  Why spend a ton on guys that won't get you a superbowl this year no matter what, why not wait till next year, finish refurbishing the stadium and get one or two that really can get you there.  4. Great comments Jon.  A couple points.  1. Adam, you guys are acting as if none of our young guys can step up in any of those open positions.  A lot of times all a guy needs is a shot, we have plenty of guys who haven’t gotten a shot.  So I don’t agree that there are that many spots to fill.  2. The salary floor is 100 Mil, so this idea that we are somehow saving 30-40 Mil this year by being cheap is wrong.  The cap is 116 Mil, so at most we’re saving 16 Mil.  After signing Allen and a top 5 Draft pick it will be even less.  Also, there is absolutely no correlation between spending and winning in the NFL, the only place that is seen is MLB and that is because of differences of 100 Mil in some cases, but even then the Yankees haven’t won the series in a long time, even they are being much more frugal this year because that strategy hasn’t produced in recent years.  3.  If we had acquired two or three of the better free agents that were available this year, which was likely doable for the Chiefs, we still wouldn’t be a guaranteed contender.  After adding another year of good solid draftees and fielding a team, we can get those guys next year that can put us over the top.  Why spend a ton on guys that won’t get you a superbowl this year no matter what, why not wait till next year, finish refurbishing the stadium and get one or two that really can get you there.  4. Great comments Jon. 

]]> By: Adam http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11910 Adam Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:08:34 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11910 Jon, great points. I'm not sold on our young guys, but agree on the L.J.-Kolby argument. Also remember that L.J. played three of his games against Jacksonville, Minnesota and San Diego, the three teams who are the most stacked at defensive tackle. Jon, great points. I’m not sold on our young guys, but agree on the L.J.-Kolby argument. Also remember that L.J. played three of his games against Jacksonville, Minnesota and San Diego, the three teams who are the most stacked at defensive tackle.

]]> By: Jon http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11909 Jon Sat, 22 Mar 2008 05:48:48 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11909 Scott, it should come as no surprise that Kolby Smith came in and had a 100+ and an 80+ yard game in the games that Niswanger started. There are many that would contend that the running game improved because Kolby was better than LJ. I don't think "they" could be more wrong. The run blocking improved markedly and they were opening up huge lanes in the running game that LJ was never fortunate enough to have seen. Niswanger was a huge part of that. When he fell to injury, Kolby just didn't look the same. What I like about Niswanger is that he can play guard or center, so we can be flexible in how we address the offensive line. So when we're talking about improving our offensive line, here's what I would say: first, based on what we have right now... our run blocking was miles ahead to close the season of where it was to begin the season. If LJ ran behind the line Kolby did, he would have run for well over 1,000 yards. Secondly, Chan Gailey will get a lot more out of the o-line, mostly because he's a far superior playcaller. So there's an argument that the o-line as is is much better than it was in 2007. And there's still room to improve. The Chiefs can bring in 2-3 starters through the draft. They can probably find a few value veteran picks after June 1st. What I like the most is that, unlike prior years, the Chiefs are going to put the best player on the field. So often, we've seen the Chiefs pick up a veteran and immediately put him in the starting lineup not because he earned the spot, but because he was the "safe pick." That's why I have no problem passing on guys like Hartwig. Apart from Faneca and maybe Faine, the entire free agent class was extremely average (Hartwig was absolutely destroyed when facing quality defensive tackles--a huge downgrade from Wiegmann). I'm not naive to believe the Chiefs' o-line problems will be solved. But I think there's a lot of reason to believe they'll be significantly better. We have to stop believing that we will build an o-line with 5 pro bowlers. It's not going to happen. Niswanger and McIntosh are serviceable enough until we find somebody better (Niswanger having the upside to be a solid starter, I believe). That leaves two open gaps. We bring in 2-3 draft picks, compete them up against Herb Taylor, and 2-3 veteran June 1st cuts, and then you put the best 5 linemen on the field. If none of them pan out in 2008, then you look again in 2009 and suffer no cap consequence to cut any of the chumps, whereas you have to keep guys like Hartwig on your roster to continue to suck for you. By the end of the offseason, I believe the Chiefs will have 7 or 8 players competing for 2-3 spots--I'm cool with that. I don't know if this approach will work. But I do know that while teams like Oakland and Detroit spent wrecklessly in free agency, Tennessee and Tampa were criticized by the media for doing absolutely nothing and now look... Oakland/Detroit still suck and Tennessee/Tampa are now playoff teams. Scott, it should come as no surprise that Kolby Smith came in and had a 100+ and an 80+ yard game in the games that Niswanger started. There are many that would contend that the running game improved because Kolby was better than LJ. I don’t think "they" could be more wrong. The run blocking improved markedly and they were opening up huge lanes in the running game that LJ was never fortunate enough to have seen. Niswanger was a huge part of that. When he fell to injury, Kolby just didn’t look the same. What I like about Niswanger is that he can play guard or center, so we can be flexible in how we address the offensive line. So when we’re talking about improving our offensive line, here’s what I would say: first, based on what we have right now… our run blocking was miles ahead to close the season of where it was to begin the season. If LJ ran behind the line Kolby did, he would have run for well over 1,000 yards. Secondly, Chan Gailey will get a lot more out of the o-line, mostly because he’s a far superior playcaller. So there’s an argument that the o-line as is is much better than it was in 2007. And there’s still room to improve. The Chiefs can bring in 2-3 starters through the draft. They can probably find a few value veteran picks after June 1st. What I like the most is that, unlike prior years, the Chiefs are going to put the best player on the field. So often, we’ve seen the Chiefs pick up a veteran and immediately put him in the starting lineup not because he earned the spot, but because he was the "safe pick." That’s why I have no problem passing on guys like Hartwig. Apart from Faneca and maybe Faine, the entire free agent class was extremely average (Hartwig was absolutely destroyed when facing quality defensive tackles–a huge downgrade from Wiegmann). I’m not naive to believe the Chiefs’ o-line problems will be solved. But I think there’s a lot of reason to believe they’ll be significantly better. We have to stop believing that we will build an o-line with 5 pro bowlers. It’s not going to happen. Niswanger and McIntosh are serviceable enough until we find somebody better (Niswanger having the upside to be a solid starter, I believe). That leaves two open gaps. We bring in 2-3 draft picks, compete them up against Herb Taylor, and 2-3 veteran June 1st cuts, and then you put the best 5 linemen on the field. If none of them pan out in 2008, then you look again in 2009 and suffer no cap consequence to cut any of the chumps, whereas you have to keep guys like Hartwig on your roster to continue to suck for you. By the end of the offseason, I believe the Chiefs will have 7 or 8 players competing for 2-3 spots–I’m cool with that. I don’t know if this approach will work. But I do know that while teams like Oakland and Detroit spent wrecklessly in free agency, Tennessee and Tampa were criticized by the media for doing absolutely nothing and now look… Oakland/Detroit still suck and Tennessee/Tampa are now playoff teams.

]]> By: Adam http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11908 Adam Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:43:32 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11908 That's the thing, Zach--Chiefs fans are really on the fence this time. My thing is, one of them anyway, why do Chiefs fans care so much about us spending a lot of money? We buy overpriced Chiefs merchandise, $7 beers, NFL Direct Ticket and expensive Arrowhead Stadium tickets, as far as I'm concerned we should have some input on that money and making sure it is spent. We are pumping money into the stadium as well. A lot of the money came from us, so there needs to be some kind of urgency to pay the fans back by going out and spending that money on good players, not just padding their own pockets. Why are we being so fiscally conservative? What are we saving this $30-40 million for? Can't we spend half, a third, or even a fourth of it? Are we waiting for an unbelievable FA class (which never happens because of tags)? Why don't we spend, and why do some fans not want us to when they give the Chiefs so much money and get 4-12 seasons and no playoff wins in 15 years in return? I just don't get it. That’s the thing, Zach–Chiefs fans are really on the fence this time. My thing is, one of them anyway, why do Chiefs fans care so much about us spending a lot of money? We buy overpriced Chiefs merchandise, $7 beers, NFL Direct Ticket and expensive Arrowhead Stadium tickets, as far as I’m concerned we should have some input on that money and making sure it is spent. We are pumping money into the stadium as well. A lot of the money came from us, so there needs to be some kind of urgency to pay the fans back by going out and spending that money on good players, not just padding their own pockets.

Why are we being so fiscally conservative? What are we saving this $30-40 million for? Can’t we spend half, a third, or even a fourth of it? Are we waiting for an unbelievable FA class (which never happens because of tags)? Why don’t we spend, and why do some fans not want us to when they give the Chiefs so much money and get 4-12 seasons and no playoff wins in 15 years in return? I just don’t get it.

]]> By: Zach http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11907 Zach Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:39:31 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11907 Gosh and think just a few months ago Adam and I were getting hammered by Redbeard and Co about the OL.  :) Gosh and think just a few months ago Adam and I were getting hammered by Redbeard and Co about the OL.  :)

]]> By: Adam http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11906 Adam Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:39:05 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11906 Jay, we need: three OL starters, a CB, a No. 2 WR, a FB, a DT, a K, and then you can throw in a return specialist and even make it nine.<br /><br />It's a difference of opinion. Everybody is right at this point. But I'm not being unreasonable; most NFL insiders not directly involved with the Chiefs also believe that we have botched free agency. If anything, you're hammering us for not being homers and calling it how we see it.<br /><br />And here's the thing about A.A.--we respect our readers. But this site was built on debate and discussion, and also us offering our unfiltered opinions. I speak my mind. That's who I am. That's what this site is, and we're glad you have the same opportunity to speak yours in the comments.<br /><br />I've been patient for two decades, so the time for patience is over. It only takes two years to rebuild in the NFL, and we are on a five-year plan now. So, with all respect to you and other readers who share your POV, this "duped" thing will absolutely not end. I will passionately argue with any Chiefs fans who thinks that the Chiefs are doing everything within their power to rebuild the franchise--most notably the OL, which is a disaster, and there was a great class of FAs out there--during this free agency period.<br /><br />So, Jay, we appreciate you reading, you're obviously a very knowledgeable fan and a bright guy, but I happen to think you are flat out wrong on this one. At some point you have to go out and spend money on young starters with potential, even young stars. You simply cannot just draft a winner with 53 spots. I firmly believe this to be true, and next year will validate my point.<br /><br />Thanks for engaging in debate with us, and don't ever think that we are personally knocking you. I tell my own dad that he's a dumbass when it comes to his analysis of the Chiefs, and he's an MD, so...just the nature of the game. Jay, we need: three OL starters, a CB, a No. 2 WR, a FB, a DT, a K, and then you can throw in a return specialist and even make it nine.

It’s a difference of opinion. Everybody is right at this point. But I’m not being unreasonable; most NFL insiders not directly involved with the Chiefs also believe that we have botched free agency. If anything, you’re hammering us for not being homers and calling it how we see it.

And here’s the thing about A.A.–we respect our readers. But this site was built on debate and discussion, and also us offering our unfiltered opinions. I speak my mind. That’s who I am. That’s what this site is, and we’re glad you have the same opportunity to speak yours in the comments.

I’ve been patient for two decades, so the time for patience is over. It only takes two years to rebuild in the NFL, and we are on a five-year plan now. So, with all respect to you and other readers who share your POV, this "duped" thing will absolutely not end. I will passionately argue with any Chiefs fans who thinks that the Chiefs are doing everything within their power to rebuild the franchise–most notably the OL, which is a disaster, and there was a great class of FAs out there–during this free agency period.

So, Jay, we appreciate you reading, you’re obviously a very knowledgeable fan and a bright guy, but I happen to think you are flat out wrong on this one. At some point you have to go out and spend money on young starters with potential, even young stars. You simply cannot just draft a winner with 53 spots. I firmly believe this to be true, and next year will validate my point.

Thanks for engaging in debate with us, and don’t ever think that we are personally knocking you. I tell my own dad that he’s a dumbass when it comes to his analysis of the Chiefs, and he’s an MD, so…just the nature of the game.

]]> By: Zach http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11905 Zach Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:36:15 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11905 Jay in no way does anyone at Arrowhead Addict think that anyone is an idiot unless they are a Raider, Bronco, or Charger fan.<br /><br />We are here to disagree and thats what we love about this blog. I think Adam says duped just to get his point across that are OL right now will not be any better than last season and many believe it will be even worse. <br /><br />I have heard Chiefs coaching staff believe they will be 10-6 or better. The Chiefs have their new promo up and it makes me really think we are headed to the Superbowl. All I think we are saying is that the team right now has not gotten any better than last season, as of right now. Sure there is plenty of time but we have yet to seen that.<br /><br />So hang in there and keep coming back and letting us know you opinion. We love you guys!!! Jay in no way does anyone at Arrowhead Addict think that anyone is an idiot unless they are a Raider, Bronco, or Charger fan.

We are here to disagree and thats what we love about this blog. I think Adam says duped just to get his point across that are OL right now will not be any better than last season and many believe it will be even worse.

I have heard Chiefs coaching staff believe they will be 10-6 or better. The Chiefs have their new promo up and it makes me really think we are headed to the Superbowl. All I think we are saying is that the team right now has not gotten any better than last season, as of right now. Sure there is plenty of time but we have yet to seen that.

So hang in there and keep coming back and letting us know you opinion. We love you guys!!!

]]> By: jay http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11904 jay Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:04:25 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11904 Sorry in a hurry, should be "we won't get three O-line starters." Sorry in a hurry, should be "we won’t get three O-line starters."

]]> By: jay http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/comment-page-2/#comment-11903 jay Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:02:58 +0000 http://arrowheadaddict.com/2008/03/19/the-wheres-the-beef-campaign/#comment-11903 This duped thing has to end Adam.  You are doing the same thing as crane, suggesting we are stupid, if you want to keep us as readers maybe you should have a little more respect for others opinions.  On top of that we have 7 or 8 holes to fill?  Last I looked we need a corner, wr, three o-line and DT?  Corner could concievably be filled by patterson/brack.  DT could  be filled by Tank & Turk.  Wr could be filled by darling.  So no they haven't gotten any true blue starters, but it appears they have some confidence in the players they drafted and are picking up some folks to compete for jobs.  We wont' get thee starters in the draft maybe not even two, but we might get Herb and Niswanger to step up or hire a vet down the road.  Young players have to play.  The O-line will be ok just as long as we throw five guys out there who don't get injured and can build some chemistry.  So the coaching staff has confidence in their young players, you don't, but don't tell me I'm an idiot for being duped.  Some of us are just more patient/reasonable than you guys.  This duped thing has to end Adam.  You are doing the same thing as crane, suggesting we are stupid, if you want to keep us as readers maybe you should have a little more respect for others opinions.  On top of that we have 7 or 8 holes to fill?  Last I looked we need a corner, wr, three o-line and DT?  Corner could concievably be filled by patterson/brack.  DT could  be filled by Tank & Turk.  Wr could be filled by darling.  So no they haven’t gotten any true blue starters, but it appears they have some confidence in the players they drafted and are picking up some folks to compete for jobs.  We wont’ get thee starters in the draft maybe not even two, but we might get Herb and Niswanger to step up or hire a vet down the road.  Young players have to play.  The O-line will be ok just as long as we throw five guys out there who don’t get injured and can build some chemistry.  So the coaching staff has confidence in their young players, you don’t, but don’t tell me I’m an idiot for being duped.  Some of us are just more patient/reasonable than you guys. 

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