The Where’s The Beef Campaign
Obviously, the Chiefs have ignored our previous campaigns. As a result, this is our last-ditch effort and hopefully a campaign the Chiefs’ brass can’t ignore.
Here’s the deal: if the Chiefs refuse to add at least one starter-caliber offensive lineman through free agency, we are boycotting Arrowhead Stadium in ‘08.
It’s time for the Chiefs to show that they are just as interested in winning as they are in packing the seats with red. The Raiders’ catchphrase is “just win, baby,” and while they might be going about it the wrong way, at least Raiders fans know that Al Davis and Co. are sure as hell trying. Chiefs fans cannot say the same.
It’s one thing to ignore clamoring for players like DeAngelo Hall and D.J. Hackett. But ignoring the offensive line problem is similar to a raging alcoholic denying he has a substance abuse issue. I’m talking a straight-Jack-for-breakfast alcoholic, that’s how severe of an O-line problem we have.
If the Chiefs don’t go out and sign Floyd Womack, or Matt Lehr, or Max Starks, or Shane Olivea–a big, warm body with starting NFL offensive line experience–we are not going to the ‘Head next year. The Best Bros. have lowered our boycott demands as low as we can, and we suggest you join us in this cause. If the Chiefs legitimately believe that they can win with this offensive line they are delusional. If the Chiefs honestly believe that they can find three O-line starters in the draft when we also have holes at corner, defensive tackle, quarterback and wide receiver, then they are delusional. Maybe they aren’t delusional–maybe the Chiefs just don’t give a shit. That’s what really concerns me. Hell, with the renovations, Chiefs fans are currently spending more money on the team than ownership. Why should we pony up more?
The gauntlet has been thrown down. We’ll see how Clark Hunt and King Carl respond. If they even read this thing (we hear someone within the organization does monitor the top Chiefs sites, by the way). Stay tuned…
Well I’ll be boycotting Arrowhead next season, but not voluntarily. Starting college out of state will limit me to maybe one or two games.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:03 pmhey..we wanna see some kinda moves..i sit here and i come to AA at least 4 times a day and i check almost every other site there is prayin i see us makin some kind of movement..needless to say its disappointing..devard darling..i love that pick up..ive been watchin him since college..but how bout our need..you know the one that protects our feild general..i mean..there are plenty o lineman still out there and anything is better than what we got..MAX STARKS..dylan gandy..chris liwiensky(no relation to monica so he probably doesnt blow)..seth mckinney..cory procter(hopefully not a gamble)..holy joe toledo…floyd"crack back"womack..i mean cmon chiefs..we need all the help we can get..its not like we had an even close to decent yr last season
March 19th, 2008 at 3:21 pmsorry that would be field general
March 19th, 2008 at 3:22 pmsomebody please tell mr. peterson he can only vote once
March 19th, 2008 at 3:33 pmWell, said! I am from CA so I can’t get out to the games. Maybe, (just throwing this out there), you start an on-line petition where Chiefs fans can come to this site and sign a petition indicating they want Olivea or Max Starks, due to the inavtivity and complete failure to add any O-line hope with experience. At least express their displeasure. KCSTAR would probably run a piece since it is a slow news time of year… It would give your site publicity and really let them know that we must do something with the O-line, especially if they are going to draft Ryan with the number one pick. My buddy used to work for a large paper out here in CA and they are always looking for interesting things to publish. Just make a call to the Star. Just throwing it out there….. Good piece I feel the same way.
March 19th, 2008 at 3:41 pmI’m cancelling my DirecTV NFL ticket, it’s a done deal. I’ve been a Chiefs fan since ‘86, and I can’t stand that we aren’t even bringing these guys in. Seriously, there is no way we can plug these holes in the draft. Olivea has been a starter, he’s young, let’s take a look. At least bring him to town!
March 19th, 2008 at 3:52 pmNewspapers won’t promote websites, unless its their own, its usually policy. I’m wondering if this boycott is just for tickets and entering the stadium, or does it include tailgating too?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:53 pmIt does not include tailgating, just not buying tickets and rewarding ownership for cheapness and inactivity. Tailgating is fine, and recommended. This isn’t a kiljoy, it’s punishing ownership by not padding their pockets.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:10 pmSo I can watch every game from my chair here in CA? lol.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pmDo you like A, or B (B sucks, don’t choose B.) Nice poll, very unbiased. Its entirely possible that the Chiefs are lining up several trade partners depending upon who’s available. But not just trading for more picks, trading for players. I think we could get two O-lineman that fit the mold, young backups to compete to be starters, from a system that is particularly deep, say any team with a pick in the 15-25 range maybe even grab a late round pick, and viola, with one pick you have three O-linemen, and the rest of your draft is flex. I doubt this will be the exact scenario but I think we’ve been really lacking in creativity when looking at the Chiefs draft.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:25 pmThis boycott thing is a little wierd, shouldn’t you get a good look at the product on the field before declaring a boycott? What if you boycott them and they win like 5 in a row to start the season. I agree that none of us look at this team as it is and say that they are a contender, but no one would have done that with Cleveland last year 4-12 to 10-6, or New Orleans 3-13 to 10-6 in 2006. It happens to a few teams every year. You boycott and they find that spark that puts them on a tear, you guys become fair weather fans. I’m not saying don’t boycott, just do it when after you get a feel for the team on the field, given all the cuts, it will be a much different team.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:45 pmI will continue to not show up for games. It’s a bit easier living in Canada. Just a question for you guys: If the Chiefs never existed in the 2008 season, who would you pull for? No picking teams like the Colts or Pats cause thats boring, and no one should like the Pats in the first place. I think I’d roll with the Vikings. Could use some DE and LB help, and maybe a QB, but I think they’ll be a good team soon.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:48 pmFirst post.First, I want to say I fully support the IDEA of what the team is trying to accomplish. What I do not support is the idea that between what we have already, and what we will gain with our ten picks we can field a COMPETENT team. Not COMPETITIVE. Competent. I can accept that we may not be a contender for the next few years. That’s easy. What I cannot handle is the idea that a bunch of kids can come in, and turn this thing around. The Chiefs organization has to put some experience around these guys. They will learn from their coaches, but they’re coaches aren’t necessarily going to give them the same turoring that solid (even if not the greatest) experienced players can provide. We have to fill some gaps before the draft. I’m not even asking for guys like Bryant Johnson or Justin Hartwig or DeAngelo Hall. I’m happy with a couple of decent guys to be added on with some knowelege about the pro game. In no position can this need for experience be better stated than when it comes to the offensive line. An offensive line must be one cohesive unit. Just having Waters and McIntosh will not be enough. Besides those two, there is only 37 games of experience on the current group of lineman that we have. Not one of that group has a full season of experience under their belt. And this fact becomes two-fold when you’re dealing with a young, raw, and in-experienced quarterback. He’s got to have help. Just like last season Croyle won’t be able to prove a thing without some experience in front of him. And it actually looks like that "help" is going to be worse this year. Croyle might actually take a step BACK. This is not to say that Croyle is the answer at quarterback either, but we damn sure won’t know if we don’t put some "beef" in front of him.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:57 pmWell said KCMizzou, but I think a lot of folks forget that FA lasts well past the draft, and there’s a second wave of veteran talent that comes when teams over reach. That is when Herm has said they will fill the holes they need to fill if they didn’t get what they needed with young FA’s and draft picks. I admit they are slow in the FA market, but there are a lot of changes to be made before training camp. Everyone is up in arms over what could be a big deal, but may very well work out just fine.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:10 pmlets keep up the where’s the beef campaign!!!! then we can draft cromartie at five!! he’s shooting up the mock drafts and i really think the pats will grab him at 7. a couple of mocks have him going to them some to buffalo those say he’ll make them forget clements! that’s saying something
March 19th, 2008 at 5:10 pmCromartie is awesome, he was a force during senior bowl practice and the game, but he’s small and his question mark has been tackling, unfortunately not ideal for the Cover 2.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:18 pmI can certainly agree with you Jay. There will still be some skilled players even after the draft, and sometimes even because of the draft. Excellent point.
March 19th, 2008 at 5:19 pmYou know, though I’m from and reside in Southern California… I was ACTUALLY gonna take a trip to Arrowhead (while I was visiting my uncle) and watch our boys play The Chokeland Raiders… And as much as I love The City. As much as this team means to me… I will NOT be attending a game if they do NOT sign either one of these guys (preferably Olivea AND or Starks)… I know Clark is holding cash in his pocket cause of the rennovation to Arrowhead. And I’m also not cancelling out things like Jared Allen’s contract, ‘08 draft picks, and possibly seeing better Free Agents in next years FA period… But COME ON!!! I’m SURE we have money to sign a couple guys, AT LEAST ONE!!! We were a f*cking joke on offense. Guys, I would watch the games with my girlfriend… and I was down right embarassed! EVEN when I watched the game BY MYSELF! Like, why should we as fans feel this way, when our suits on the team can do SO MUCH more than the jerk off job we’ve been witnessing… AHH!!!
March 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pmWell, my boycotting doesn’t make me a fairweather fan, but just the opposite. I am willing to put the sake of the team over my own personal enjoyment. I’ve watched enough football to know that we aren’t contenders. If the Chiefs stay over .500 through the first eight games, hell, I’ll call the boycott off, eat more words, declare Carl right and us wrong. But that isn’t going to happen with all of our holes.
As for the second wave of FAs. Sure we know about it–it is evaporating before our eyes. Not much really gets done after the draft at all.As for DRC at five, that’s way too early. Chiefs fans need to start thinking Matt Ryan. I’m going to try like hell to start the movement. The article is coming, just had an annoying computer crash to deal with today…
March 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pmAdam… I cant consider myself onboard with the Matt Ryan campaign…. Theres no way we should just give up on Bro so quickly without a real shot… We saw what LJ could do WITH a nasty O-Line… And in contrast we saw what he was able to do with the horrid O-Line we had this past season. And it was disgustingly obvious that the big plays LJ had, HE developed HIMSELF… YET! We arent saying, oh draft another RB (Run DMC is not JUST a RB. He’s versitile) to take LJ’s spot cause he wasnt productive. No not at all. LJ is our guy. So why to Croyle Brush Off?? It’ll be pretty stupid to draft Matt Ryan… We have bigger needs and better uses for guys like Jake Long (need) Dorsey or Ellis (need) or Chris Long or V.Gholston (use)… And Adam, I’m not saying that Matt Ryan sucks. And or that he’d be horrible for the team. Hell, he’d probably be a great addition to the team… BUT Brodie Croyle hasnt had the fair shot. And from what we’ve seen Brodie has great potential.
March 19th, 2008 at 6:49 pmunless we started makin a move on some of the FA o-linemen out there you guys might as well drop the talk of draftin anything but with #5 ..we cant afford to go anywhere else with the pick unless things start gettin handled before the draft…and like i said before..if the line doesnt improve..we might as well pick up another RB for when LJ gets injured again..
March 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pmadam, looking at alot of mock drafts that were updated today several had DRC going at 7 lots at 8 10 and 11 so os it really such a reach
March 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pmadam, looking at alot of mock drafts that were updated today several had DRC going at 7 lots at 8 10 and 11 so os it really such a reach to grab him at 5??? or get the OL now and trade down to get him but i really think the pats will take him at 7 i love JLONG but really don’t think he’ll be there
March 19th, 2008 at 7:19 pmcan DRC come in and play left guard..right tackle..well then..save your breath bro
March 19th, 2008 at 7:21 pmwe don’t have a right guard either
March 19th, 2008 at 7:27 pmwho said BWaters isn’t going to be the left guard for sure also comesack it’s not going to make any diff if we can’t put any corners out there
March 19th, 2008 at 7:28 pmlol…well..if he can do it..im all for pickin him up at 5..lol
March 19th, 2008 at 7:28 pmi hear ya bro but if we cant protect the QB we are goin out there for nothing anyways..you dont get to the playoffs by postin ties..as far as the waters thing..i didnt mean anything..just throwin some examples out
March 19th, 2008 at 7:31 pmeven if we get an awesome line do you think the herminator will allow brodie/huard/thigpin/ryan really open it up? we’ll get KILLED by the pass all year long and we won’t be able to out score any one for sure
March 19th, 2008 at 7:32 pmWE NEED CORNERS
March 19th, 2008 at 7:34 pmyou dont get what im sayin..if..IF..they get linmen before the draft..im open to anything..ill be happy with whoever..especially DRC..but if we dont then thats our biggest need
March 19th, 2008 at 7:37 pmread comment #23 i get what you’re sayin thats what where’s the beef is about then we can draft DRC
March 19th, 2008 at 7:47 pmDude. Our O-Line situation is unbelievably discouraging… We have…………… Brian Waters and………… Well, we have Brian Waters. D-Mac is definitely an option at RT… but Not only did we miss out on Hartwig, but Wiegman looks to be headed to Denver (jerk)… We need to DESPERATELY revamp. If we were to sign Olivea and Starks, I’d be EXTREMELY happy! Cause then we’d have Waters, McIntosh, Olivea, and Starks, and hopefully Jake Long (or Otah/Clady/Cherilus)
March 19th, 2008 at 7:49 pmi see..well it seems some people in almost every one of these decide to come in and get off subject..im sorry and im glad we agree that they need to do something
March 19th, 2008 at 7:52 pmJason, DRC is a reach because there are 5-6 elite players in this draft and he is not one of them. That being said, at the five spot we have to draft an elite, Pro Bowl-level player.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:57 pmJason, recently i have watched extensive video on all of the top 8 CB’s in this draft, and although DRC is probably on average rated #3, I would place him at #1. The guys hips are like liquid, and he’s quite fast indeed. And after watching what I have, I would take him above Clady, Otah, and Ryan. I would not take him above Long, Dorsey, or Ellis though. And I would even almost lean towards DMC if he was available based on the circumstances that we drafted LJ.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:00 pmI may eat these words, but as I see it right now, Ryan is no where close to elite or probowl.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:01 pmThis is the stupidest, crybaby, foot stomping idea I’ve heard in quite some time. By all means, lets have the Chiefs bring in some guy no other team wants to take the spot a younger, ascending player could have just to make the crybaby fans who think they know more than the people who do the job for a living do.I hope you don’t go to Arrowhead. Go root for the Patriots or Colts if you can’t stand losing so much. To think the Chiefs are purposely trying to sabotage the season is preposterous. They have a plan and are sticking to it, you don’t understand it and you don’t have to. All you have to do is sit back and watch the game next year. Or don’t. It doesn’t make a difference at all.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:24 pmwow…sounds like the voice of mr. peterson…lol
March 19th, 2008 at 9:40 pmD.J., you’re entitled to your opinion, but from where I am sitting it looks like you are just one more Chiefs fan that has been duped into thinking that the Chiefs have this master plan and aren’t just being cheap. Pull the wool out from over your eyes and you will see that the Cheaps are more concerned with saving cash and renovating their cash cow stadium than winning.
We have a Chiefs site and are among their biggest fans. Getting sick of readers coming on here and challenging our fandom. Just because we love the Chiefs doesn’t mean we have to be Chief apologists. The true fans challenge their team when it isn’t committed to getting better. The Chiefs have to know how hungry their fans are for a winning product, and that we won’t just continue to have blind faith. No rooting for the Colts or Patriots here.
And by my count we have about five younger, ascending players on our roster. And, no, you can’t count Jarrad "Overrated" Page.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:11 pm” IF YOU CANT STAND LOSING SO MUCH ” umm yeah thats what were saying dude ! thats the whole point of getting some help in here ! come on get your head out of your ass ! we are talking about o line help here and im sure there is not one ”up and coming player "on the team that is better than starks or olivea !
March 19th, 2008 at 11:46 pmI doubt the Chiefs read your shitty blog. Especially when you can’t even spell players’ names correctly.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:19 amBy the way, they sure as hell don’t care if a couple of non-season-ticket holders don’t show up to a few games. Your "boycott" is cute, but ultimately meaningless.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:20 amI’d like to slap Tim with a booklet of season tickets and tell him to go make me a sammich. Probably a Faiders Fan. Or the South Park Timmmayyy.And is that DJ … Hackett? Or Dou-chie.Jerk?Feel free to delete this Adam but Tim’s "comment" pissed me off, I mean, there isn’t even a Chief’s name in this article to be spelled wrong? WHICH IS WHY WE ARE UPSET! Every free agent from Tier 1 down has went somewhere else. The question is WHY? We have one of the best RB’s, best TE if you ask me, an up-and-coming WR, an AA (African-American) head coach, decent defense… and according to King Carl, the best fans in the league. Why wouldn’t a player come here? One word…money. Otherwise, there’s something we don’t know and it bothers us REAL FANS enough to threaten a boycott.We can get into a ‘net flame war here….that’s fine, but that’s the true exercise in futility, not expressing our displeasure in our favorite team’s choices. I have to side with Adam here in thinking we are pocketing some cash this year due to the $150M renovation. According to Hoover’s the Chiefs list their revenue at $87M dollars. That’s probably minus TV revenue, but in a small market like KC and the Central US…well you catch my drift.Plus, if we are spending 150M…why not throw a roof on this joint so we can host a SuperBowl? A major arch. firm in KC is HNTB and built Invesco Field….just a 2 a.m. thought. I’m out.
March 20th, 2008 at 1:47 amI am 27 years old and in the USAF, and i follow the Chiefs online, but enough is enough. I am around so many fans for other teams and i see there excitement going into football season. Their teams have signed big time players, or have multiple draft picks, and seem to be getting better and better every year. But yet our Chiefs want so badly to stay the course, and be mediocre, but make a big profit. I am sure this was not Lamar Hunts dream when he purchased this team. How can you go an entire offseason ignoring obvious glaring needs. You have over $25m in cap money, and can’t sign one guy make one trade. Who do they think are paying for those renovations? Its obvious that Chiefs Fans don’t have a say in anything. I think boycotting next season is just a start. We need to hit them with numbers that really hurt. Lets start cancelling season tickets, stop buying there merchandise, and continue boycotting until they make the necessary changes and start listening to the fans. I am glad i am moving to England in Aug. I won’t have to watch our beloved franchise go further down the toilet.
March 20th, 2008 at 7:23 amwell said eric..id like to smack him with something else though..like my…c**k…we come here to read the latest news..and talk to others who feel the same way we do..we dont come here to say how we feel and what we would like to see just to have some d**k piss all over us like he’s some kinda tom brady..cmon mr. big stuff.. either silence yourself or get the fluck out..
March 20th, 2008 at 7:28 amWell Tim (AKA Mr. Rainbows), if you watch any sports chanels or read any sporting articles that happen to cover the events of the NFL, you will see that we here are not the only one’s who think the chiefs have gone bananas. NFL analysists are just as confused by this lack of effort as the fans are. Really, we are pretty much just as bad as the Raiders except the exact opposite. They spend way too much, we don’t spend at all. We both suck.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:58 amYou people make me sick. You bitch about the team being mediocre for years and now you bitch because they’re actually fixing it. Do you remember why the Offensive line sucked last year? DO YOU? Free agents. Turley, D-Mac, Welbourn, Terry. They built the line through free agency last year and look what happened. Now you are calling for them to do the exact same thing. They are just doing exactly what they told all of us they are going to do – build through the draft. That’s the right way to rebuild. Does anyone here think the Raiders will be better off than the Chiefs in 09 and 10? This is what rebuilding is all about. If the team goes 4-12 again next year, but has continued success down the road, fine with me. Free agents (for the most part) will only give the team short term success. Next season is better spent by getting the young guys playing time and developing them rather than benching them so a damn free agent that will be gone in a couple years can play during a season that will be mediocre anyway. Bottom line – if this strategy that you’re screaming for hasn’t worked for the last 20 years of this franchise, what in the world makes you think it will work now?
March 20th, 2008 at 10:38 amYes but:
Remember, Weigmann and Roaf were both off-season acquistions. I agree with you that some of the HOLES have to be addressed in the draft, but having 3 OL starters come from one draft is delusional thinking at best.There is no way we can be successful with 3 rookie OL. We are not asking for them to go out and sign 5 new OL. We just want one guy so we dont have to pray that by some miracle we draft 3 guys that can start.
I think bringing in a guy that is 27-30 years old is a good move and will give some competition to a unit that desperately needs some!
March 20th, 2008 at 11:31 amTurley- Dmac-Terry? Wow, yeah boy we went all out rebuilding that line. *rolls eyes* We want them to sign a good free agent, not some guy’s who’s only claim to fame was going apeshit throwing a helmet in disgust for the Saints… I actually do think the Faiders will be better off than the Chiefs if we are going by current track record. What are we gonna do…let LJ and Brodie get their faces smashed in and hope they can still walk in three years? TG will be gone and so will half our defense by the time this plan kicks in. The Faiders will have Hall and Run DMC, Walker,…Jamarcus, etc. They could be scary good as much as I hate to say it. Its much more likely they will self-destruct…we might have to get the Wolf on the field as he seems to be the only one that can bring anyone down last season.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:36 amScott, fans like you make me sick. WAKE UP, BUDDY. The Chiefs have taken the cheap route before on mediocre or over-the-hill FAs, and now they are taking the cheap route on a few young guys and, well, not spending any money whatsoever. The constant is that they are always cheap. Can you not see that, the rest of the league does, like bigchief13 pointed out. D-Mac is fine, and the rest of these guys are younger and better than the bums you mentioned.
Tim, I know for a fact that the Chiefs do monitor this blog. I also know that we have received a lot of praise and have been featured all over the blogosphere. I also know that we get 1,000-plus unique visitors per day. A.A. is a success, and we thank our loyal readers for that. If you don’t like it, then go elsewhere or start your own and see how far it goes. I doubt anyone besides your mother would read.
And if more fans start cancelling or selling their season tickets, boycotting, etc…., yeah, the Chiefs will notice. The only way to get their attention is through attendence, genius. And we were going to buy season tickets this year, before we went all cheapo, FYI. Not now.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:38 amWe still got love for you, Scott.
Tim? Not so much. Pretty much became our first comments execution. Well, other than that George Bush idiot from the WPI forums. Don’t hate–just start your own blog, baby.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:40 amOr become our intern. You spell well, or at least claim you do, and have the free time to nitpick. We’ll buy you Gates once a week and put your name on the "About" page. What do ya say, Tim? Intern?
March 20th, 2008 at 11:49 amAdam, sorry about the tirade. You guys do a great job with the site. You are correct about the recent crop being much better than the bums from last year. It’s just very hard for me to believe that there isn’t some kind of plan beyond all this madness. I will admit, it’s very frustrating to check the blogs every day and see no movement, but at the same time it’s refreshing to see the team do something different from what it’s been doing all these years. I have a lot of faith in Herm when it comes to player evaluation. He seems to have that nailed. Also remember that he is dedicated to youth. On that note, I don’t blame the O-line problems from last year on him, because I think he would have taken a much different approach. That was probably CP’s doing and he has actually admitted that the mistake was his. It seems that Herm has almost complete control with personnel decisions now. Therefore, I’m confident that whoever the team starts the season with, it’s a move in the right direction, albeit maybe not in the short term. If he’s calling the shots, I think we’re in good hands. As far as the team being cheap, I disagree. Gonzo and LJ have pretty lucrative contracts. Surtain and Law got paid way more than they were worth. Clark Hunt is not afraid to spend money. He showed that by throwing an extra $75-100 million into the stadium renovation than he was supposed to because he cares about the franchise. I could be wrong, but I really don’t think there’s anything to worry about here. I think at least one of the young guys on the roster can become a starter. I agree that D-Mac is fine on the right side. That leaves just getting a Left Tackle and a Guard in the draft. Easily done, as G can be taken in a lower round. As far as experience and leadership, I think Waters has more than enough of both for the entire line, and he has D-Mac and the coaches to help him. No, I’m sure they won’t immediately turn into the kind of stellar line that we were spoiled with for so many years. But they’re paving the way so that we can be spoiled again for many years to come.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:29 pmScott, no prob–we enjoy your thoughts and all opinions, as long as people aren’t asses, which you weren’t. We love debate, and it is the heart of A.A. Thanks for the props!
I don’t think, however, that either Herb or Rudy will get the job done. We desperately need to sign an offensive lineman. I just don’t think you can win just through the draft. And the guy I give a lot of credit draft-wise is Bill Kuharich. Still, look at last year, we had one miss for sure in Medlock, and might have more. We can’t count on the draft for 6-8 starters this year, or any year. I do think the Chiefs are cheaper than a lot of the teams. When I see the Raiders, and Pats, and Cowboys, and Browns, etc… spend dough I do get jealous.
Thanks for commenting!
March 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pmI don’t understand what the clamouring is about. Are we really arguing over not signing DeAngelo Hall, after our last two debacles with high-priced corners? Are we really getting up in airs about not signing Womack (who can’t stay healthy… period) and a bunch of reject linemen who weren’t good enough to be retained by teams that have no cap problems? Are we really pushing for Max Starks, a lineman so bad he didn’t even start for a shoddy offensive line in Pittsburgh?These moves you are suggesting that the Chiefs are exactly the moves they’ve been making the past 5 years. The best teams let young players fight for starting spots rather than forcing an average player into the rotation. I’m not a homer by any stretch, but I guarantee that the Chiefs have a far better team in 3 years than the Jets or Raiders, who are making the moves the Chiefs are not. The Chiefs have 3 solid linemen in Niswanger, McIntosh, and Waters. They can add 2 or 3 in the draft, and add a few more value guys after June 1st. Far as I’m concerned, all those linemen you’re promoting are the next version of Damion McIntosh–veterans who win starting jobs because of their veteran experience rather than their ability.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:07 pmWow, this got ugly since I last checked in. I disagree with you guys on a lot of things, and I have appreciated the relative civility. Now, back to disagreeing. Its not like they can be that cheap, with a floor of 100 Mil. Even if we just make it to the floor we can’t be as bad as the royals. Plus we still need to sign Jared Allen, and a top 5 pick. I think its fair for the chiefs to be more frugal this year, given the renovations going on. On top of that, I really think if all your boycott requires is the signing of, as you put it, "a big, warm body with starting NFL offensive line experience" I don’t think your boycott will last. Its silly to think they’ll go into the off-season with only two experienced O-lineman. If you want to boycott, man up and boycott, one O-lineman won’t be the difference between a crap team and a contender. Either way the boycott is hasty for a team only one season removed from the playoffs that is obviously rebuilding.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:24 pmJay and Jon…you make Carl smile real big. That shit eating grin a diabolical g.m. can only have when his Jedi-Mind trick works flawlessy. *you will not boycott our team*
March 20th, 2008 at 4:47 pmI have to agree with Jon here (I’m guessing that’s Jon from MVN). Well said. Much more civil and put together than my original post. As far as the boycott goes, I don’t think you’ll have to worry about having warm bodies. Herm – "You know what we’ll have? Competition. That’s what’s great about it." I have no idea who they might be, but we all know he’ll have quite a few linemen out there during training camp fighting for the jobs. He wouldn’t have it any other way.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:59 pmjay, now there’s NO reason to piss on the royals parade this early in the year maybe you haven’t noticed but at least they spent some money the last two offseasons and i think dayton will be LIGHTYEARS better than CP
March 20th, 2008 at 5:31 pmscott if there’s only "warm" bodies whoever is the qb will still get killed
March 20th, 2008 at 5:32 pmCrane, all due respect, this King Carl, Evil Carl BS is absurd, he’s just a GM in the NFL working within his paramaters, defined by those above him. Acting as if we’re idiots that have fallen into some kind of pre-determined trap is equally absurd and just plain lazy. I could just as easily claim you and the Best bros are evil manipulators who are in cahoots because you won the hoody and mysteriously became a writer for the site. I know you aren’t evil but you can draw any connections you like when the other party isn’t in the conversation. Your post was funny, but the guy that got second actually followed the directions and should have won. The conversations at 1 Arrowhead are not "how can we dupe fans into coming this year?" They are surely more along the lines of "given this amount of money, and the talent pool available, what is our best chance to win?" You think after Herm’s famous rant "play to win the game" he is a guy who joined the Chiefs because he likes crappy rosters and doesn’t want to win? Say Carl is a bad GM, say herm is a bad coach, say they are cheap, support your arguments, have a civil debate, but don’t act as if you’re smarter than us because you’ve somehow figured out the secret evil plan of the chiefs. They are a business and butts in seats are certainly a high priority, but you are also dealing with men who have huge egos and losing is not something they strive for.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:41 pmHey Jason, I was referring to the royals of old. Someone mentioned in another post, maybe not even on this string about how the chiefs were acting like the Royals. Personally I don’t keep up with the Royals. I grew up in Middle BF Missouri and became a Cardinals and Chiefs fan early. It was nice being in the middle because I got to pick the good teams on either side of the state, but now I’m stuck here in Stl. during football season with no tailgating in sight. Baseball season has been very good to me though. I always hope the royals do well, they were better than the Cards last year, for sure.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:49 pmTrue. They know how to pack the stadium – win. That’s all there is to it. Back in the 70’s you could hear a pin drop at Arrowhead. During the 90’s they sold out so constantly because you could almost always count on the team to win at Arrowhead. If you think they don’t want that back, you’re crazy.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:50 pmA little off topic here – Jay mentioned being in STL. Are the rumors true about Rams games? I’ve never been to one. I hear the atmosphere is weak compared to Arrowhead. Anyone?
March 20th, 2008 at 5:52 pmOur last two high prices CB’s were old and already on a decline. Hall is neither. And where did we get the idea we have 3 solid linemen? Waters? Yeah. DMac? Maybe, and thats a big maybe. Rudy?!?!?! How do we even toy with that conclusion? I think we definately do need free agents. We also need some young starters. What we need is a happy medium. You know how chocolate sauce goes nicely with ice cream? Something of that nature. And Tim I appologise in advance for any spelling errors and stress that I may have caused with this post.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:01 pmWhy does Carl look like such a sleeze bag? Is it the hair? The rings? I dunno.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pmappologise. HA! clasick.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:11 pmjay where in mid mo u from
March 20th, 2008 at 6:13 pmScott, weak is an understatement. Back when they were the greatest show on turf, I hear it was something to behold with the dome and the crowd going crazy, but these days its probably the worst. They play music that doesn’t match football, the PSL ticket holders are all rich as they were the only ones who could afford the tickets so they tend to be pretty quiet, and they can’t fill the place. They are supposed to be making improvements over the next two years, so maybe they’ve realized how bad it is.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:17 pmCarl looks like a retired gigalo from the 70’s. That is certainly sleezy, but you can’t blame a man for makin’ some scratch off of the pleasure arts. I think its entirely possible that people hate Carl more for his appearance than they do his management. My wife and I watched Hard Knocks and the first thing she said when she saw C.P. is "he looks like a slimeball."
March 20th, 2008 at 6:24 pmI grew up in salem, near rolla.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:25 pmJay-I am not in chaoots with the Best Bros. If you want the hoody that bad I would probably give it to you. You raise some interesting, but-inaccurate points and just gave me a topic for my next post. Thanks.By the way…you said"The conversations at 1 Arrowhead are not "how can we dupe fans into
March 20th, 2008 at 7:39 pmcoming this year?" They are surely more along the lines of "given this
amount of money, and the talent pool available, what is our best chance
to win?" I think its equally dumb to say that comapared to what I said. Given the amount of money we have to spend and we are not spending it is what raises my suspicions.
Jason, are you from mid MO too? JC here.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:29 pmI don’t want the hoody, I didn’t compete for it, you won it fair and square I’m sure, but it was an example of how dots can be connected when one is on the outside looking in, which you most certainly are with the chiefs. I didn’t say they had no money to spend, I simply said Carl’s resources are limited by a higher source. I also understand why they don’t push the salary cap limit every year, even though they have as recently as two or three years ago. I don’t think its necessary to win. I think its a simple formula, Clark Hunt tells Carl how much money he can spend, Herm tells Carl what players he wants, and Carl has to do what he can with the allotted resources. No conspiracy theories are necessary to be upset. If you’re pissed about money blame Clark. If you are upset about not getting enough FA’s blame strategy, if you think the coaching is bad blame Herm, Gun, Chan. But the evil empire sh** is juvenile. If you want to argue incompetence of all of them I’ll debate that, but acting as if you’re smarter than the rest of us because you know the secret desires of their hearts, and those of us who choose to be fans are just rubes, is insulting and diminishes any good points you might have. It reminds me of reading Jason Whitlock. Half way through most of his articles I stop reading because they are so unabashedly biased.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:39 pmScott, believe what you hear. I lived in St. Louis for 5 years and have been to several stadiums in my life. The Edward Jones Dome is one of the worst I’ve ever been to. I was at the game vs. the Jets a few years ago in which the Rams’ playoff game was at stake, and nobody stood up until the 4th quarter. Literally, everyone is talking when the Rams are on defense. Nobody is on their feet like they are at Arrowhead. And tailgating? Ha! Most of the parking is in parking garages. You might find a few grills fired up, but good luck finding them. As for other points, sure I agree this team needs balance, but the problem is that when you sign free agents to big contracts, you guarantee them starting spots. Happens every time. And when you sign guys like Kendrell Bell to long-term contracts, they’ll start no matter how much they suck. At this stage of the rebuild, I would MUCH rather that the Chiefs promote open competition. No job is guaranteed. May the best man win.As for the o-line… I know many would like to build an all-world o-line. I recognize this is a defensive team that will be built on running the ball. The Chiefs don’t need to be all-world on the offensive line. Waters/Niswanger/McIntosh are "solid enough." A few draft picks can be added in. A few veteran free agents will be added after June 1st. There will be plenty of competition. Here’s the kicker: unlike signing average guys like Hartwig and Jake Scott, the Chiefs will have 10+ linemen competing for 5 jobs and I feel confident that Chan Gailey will pick the best 5. If one ends up bombing, Gailey will have no problem plucking them from the starting lineup. If there is still a hole inadequately filled in 2008, then you add a new guy in 2009. Unlike the free agency route, there’s no "settling" for average talent like Hartwig. I know this sounds like CP ball-washing. It’s not. I’m tired of CP too. I like this strategy because I believe it’s very ATYPICAL of CP. We know CP will do anything to fill seats. This is not a "seat-filling" strategy. It sounds like the Chiefs are finally trying to do what’s best for the team rather than what will appease fans to fill seats and throw money at the team. I’m cool with that.
March 20th, 2008 at 10:20 pm" It reminds me of reading Jason Whitlock. Half way through most of his articles I stop reading because they are so unabashedly biased. " Very true. Jabba Whitlock makes me sick. Remember when he did the ratings of every player on the team? His opinion on the performance of John Welbourn: "Nice guy. I have nothing bad to say about him." Oh and St. Louis sounds awful. I think I’ll stick with Arrowhead.
March 20th, 2008 at 10:46 pmHey – I’d like to see some analysis here by Jon and Adam. John: you seem to think that Rudy Niswanger is good enough to fill a starting slot in the line. Adam: you seem to think he can’t tie his shoes. Personally, I haven’t seen any proof either way. Could you two support your opinions on this at all?
March 20th, 2008 at 10:50 pm*edit -> Jon, not John
March 20th, 2008 at 10:50 pmJay- them’s fightin words homie.—-I tell you what…telling me I sound like Whitlock is like calling me a cunt. I bet you’d kick a guy in the balls in a fight. I’m not just spouting off to stir the pot, or have the "opposite-of-popular opinion" just to be controversial. You’re right dude, you got me I don’t have a "secret "in" with the Cheaps. I’m caught….Let me preface this by sayin’ Biggie and Tupac didn’t sell records without beef. Ya dig? The most likely siituation is is that the cards are being held close to the vest
March 21st, 2008 at 3:23 ambecause the draft is a fun little poker game/pissing match to the NFL Execs and
Coaches. Jay —You might be able to make salient points. …but how easy is it to just say "well the chain of command rolls downhill"… and blame Clerk for the money…blame Strategy"(???) OK fine I, Eric-Crane blame STRATEGY .—Then, and maybe then we won’t be overracting because we know our team; it’s strength’s, need’s, and weaknesses. —And most importantly, the strategy.
Alright Crane, calm down. All I’m saying is everything I’ve read from you so far has been ’scorched earth,’(admittedly a limited sample) so any points you make that might be good ones are completely undermined by the fact that you are incredibly biased. I’ve said before that most fans don’t see it the way you guys do, people who see things negatively are the ones who seek out blogs and radio shows, Rush Limbaugh’s success in the 90’s was way better than it is now, because he had a Democratic regime to bitch about. So if you want average joe fan to see it your way, if you want them to boycott, make an argument, rather than making demands. Adam seems to have done this, but you have just bitched about evil, and king carl, and how stupid the fans are that don’t see it your way. Give me something to chew on without all of the obvious bias and maybe I could see it your way.
March 21st, 2008 at 5:50 amThe thing is, nothing you want will make the team better. It will make YOU feel better that your team is doing something. Jake Scott is not an elite lineman, he’s average. Faine was not an elite lineman, he’s average. Short of Faneca who is in his last years in the NFL, there is no elite lineman in free agency. We should see what we can get in the draft and THEN fill the holes with average guys. They aren’t hard to come by. But stomping your foot and demanding this BS is all about making you feel like your team is doing something, even if it isn’t in the teams best interests.
March 21st, 2008 at 6:48 ami live in warsaw mo now originally from kck. CHIEFS and ROYALS fan my whole life
March 21st, 2008 at 7:35 amWhy is it that nobody wants to give credit to Herm & Co for finding some under the radar players who I think can step in and suprise alot of people? Since when did free agency EVER work out for the Chiefs? Ummm…. Never so for all you fans who want to bitch just to bitch, get over it, lets give Herm a chance to truly build through the draft and see what comes of it!
March 21st, 2008 at 11:14 amWe do give Herm credit, I dont think we have said he has never drafted well. That was Dick Vermeil.THE Problem is that you are right, WE ALWAYS STINK IN FA. That doesn’t mean we can’t be good at it. Just means that the Front Office and Ownership have made CHEAP decisions going with guys like Bell, McLeon, Barber, Holliday, and the list keeps going and going.I have loved the guys we brought in last year and this year, but when your OL is one of the worst in NFL and you do nothing to improve than I think as fans we have the right to bitch. Its like you keep telling your dad when your 16 that my cars brakes aren’t working that well. You tell him and tell him, and still nothing happens. Then what happens next????
March 21st, 2008 at 12:27 pm#1. You guys are nuts.#2. If we think Waters, Niswanger, Macintosh, and a few draft picks will be a solid line, then we are the most nieve team in the league and will have the WORST line in the league.#3. Patrick, who is Priest Holmes?
March 21st, 2008 at 12:54 pmThank you, bigchief13. I just can’t believe the level to which the Chiefs have duped some fans.
We haven’t added one sure-fire starter yet via free agency and have at least seven or eight holes to fill. Yes, Herm, Bill and Ray have been drafting well, but they found one full-time starter in last year’s draft, and the same the year before. How are the going to find eight times that amount in this year’s draft? Wake up, people.
We’re not saying the Chiefs were doing F.A. the right way before; we aren’t blaming Herm for what Dicky V did; we aren’t saying be the Raiders; we’re just saying that free agency has to play a part in any viable rebuilding project. When you let this many guys walk, you need more than the draft and undrafted rooks to plug the holes. Not just short term either.
I just have to shake my damn head in bewilderment at some Chiefs fans. How low have we set the bar for this franchise? Damn.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pmScott, Rudy Niswanger may be able to tie his shoes as well as any man has ever tied his sneakers, but he hasn’t displayed that he can. Plus, he’s coming off a significant knee injury. I like Rudy, I’m just saying we absolutely cannot count on him at this point. We’d be foolish to…
March 21st, 2008 at 2:55 pmI want to comment on the hoody thing. Crane’s submission was the most complete most original, most thorough, insightful and entertaining piece we had sent in by far. We do know Crane, went to college with him nearly half a decade ago. Haven’t seen him since, but…anyway, it was his submission that prompted us to hire him. I knew he could write, but he really displayed that he could really add something here. Steven did the same thing while over at Chiefs Blitz, so we brought him in. We’re going to both do more giveaways and expand our staff.
I realize you were just making a point, but I wanted to set the record straight. I think A.A. does more to get fans involved than just about any blog I’ve ever seen, and that’s why we started this puppy.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pmThis duped thing has to end Adam. You are doing the same thing as crane, suggesting we are stupid, if you want to keep us as readers maybe you should have a little more respect for others opinions. On top of that we have 7 or 8 holes to fill? Last I looked we need a corner, wr, three o-line and DT? Corner could concievably be filled by patterson/brack. DT could be filled by Tank & Turk. Wr could be filled by darling. So no they haven’t gotten any true blue starters, but it appears they have some confidence in the players they drafted and are picking up some folks to compete for jobs. We wont’ get thee starters in the draft maybe not even two, but we might get Herb and Niswanger to step up or hire a vet down the road. Young players have to play. The O-line will be ok just as long as we throw five guys out there who don’t get injured and can build some chemistry. So the coaching staff has confidence in their young players, you don’t, but don’t tell me I’m an idiot for being duped. Some of us are just more patient/reasonable than you guys.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pmSorry in a hurry, should be "we won’t get three O-line starters."
March 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pmJay in no way does anyone at Arrowhead Addict think that anyone is an idiot unless they are a Raider, Bronco, or Charger fan.
We are here to disagree and thats what we love about this blog. I think Adam says duped just to get his point across that are OL right now will not be any better than last season and many believe it will be even worse.
I have heard Chiefs coaching staff believe they will be 10-6 or better. The Chiefs have their new promo up and it makes me really think we are headed to the Superbowl. All I think we are saying is that the team right now has not gotten any better than last season, as of right now. Sure there is plenty of time but we have yet to seen that.
So hang in there and keep coming back and letting us know you opinion. We love you guys!!!
March 21st, 2008 at 3:36 pmJay, we need: three OL starters, a CB, a No. 2 WR, a FB, a DT, a K, and then you can throw in a return specialist and even make it nine.
It’s a difference of opinion. Everybody is right at this point. But I’m not being unreasonable; most NFL insiders not directly involved with the Chiefs also believe that we have botched free agency. If anything, you’re hammering us for not being homers and calling it how we see it.
And here’s the thing about A.A.–we respect our readers. But this site was built on debate and discussion, and also us offering our unfiltered opinions. I speak my mind. That’s who I am. That’s what this site is, and we’re glad you have the same opportunity to speak yours in the comments.
I’ve been patient for two decades, so the time for patience is over. It only takes two years to rebuild in the NFL, and we are on a five-year plan now. So, with all respect to you and other readers who share your POV, this "duped" thing will absolutely not end. I will passionately argue with any Chiefs fans who thinks that the Chiefs are doing everything within their power to rebuild the franchise–most notably the OL, which is a disaster, and there was a great class of FAs out there–during this free agency period.
So, Jay, we appreciate you reading, you’re obviously a very knowledgeable fan and a bright guy, but I happen to think you are flat out wrong on this one. At some point you have to go out and spend money on young starters with potential, even young stars. You simply cannot just draft a winner with 53 spots. I firmly believe this to be true, and next year will validate my point.
Thanks for engaging in debate with us, and don’t ever think that we are personally knocking you. I tell my own dad that he’s a dumbass when it comes to his analysis of the Chiefs, and he’s an MD, so…just the nature of the game.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pmGosh and think just a few months ago Adam and I were getting hammered by Redbeard and Co about the OL.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:39 pmThat’s the thing, Zach–Chiefs fans are really on the fence this time. My thing is, one of them anyway, why do Chiefs fans care so much about us spending a lot of money? We buy overpriced Chiefs merchandise, $7 beers, NFL Direct Ticket and expensive Arrowhead Stadium tickets, as far as I’m concerned we should have some input on that money and making sure it is spent. We are pumping money into the stadium as well. A lot of the money came from us, so there needs to be some kind of urgency to pay the fans back by going out and spending that money on good players, not just padding their own pockets.
Why are we being so fiscally conservative? What are we saving this $30-40 million for? Can’t we spend half, a third, or even a fourth of it? Are we waiting for an unbelievable FA class (which never happens because of tags)? Why don’t we spend, and why do some fans not want us to when they give the Chiefs so much money and get 4-12 seasons and no playoff wins in 15 years in return? I just don’t get it.
March 21st, 2008 at 3:43 pmScott, it should come as no surprise that Kolby Smith came in and had a 100+ and an 80+ yard game in the games that Niswanger started. There are many that would contend that the running game improved because Kolby was better than LJ. I don’t think "they" could be more wrong. The run blocking improved markedly and they were opening up huge lanes in the running game that LJ was never fortunate enough to have seen. Niswanger was a huge part of that. When he fell to injury, Kolby just didn’t look the same. What I like about Niswanger is that he can play guard or center, so we can be flexible in how we address the offensive line. So when we’re talking about improving our offensive line, here’s what I would say: first, based on what we have right now… our run blocking was miles ahead to close the season of where it was to begin the season. If LJ ran behind the line Kolby did, he would have run for well over 1,000 yards. Secondly, Chan Gailey will get a lot more out of the o-line, mostly because he’s a far superior playcaller. So there’s an argument that the o-line as is is much better than it was in 2007. And there’s still room to improve. The Chiefs can bring in 2-3 starters through the draft. They can probably find a few value veteran picks after June 1st. What I like the most is that, unlike prior years, the Chiefs are going to put the best player on the field. So often, we’ve seen the Chiefs pick up a veteran and immediately put him in the starting lineup not because he earned the spot, but because he was the "safe pick." That’s why I have no problem passing on guys like Hartwig. Apart from Faneca and maybe Faine, the entire free agent class was extremely average (Hartwig was absolutely destroyed when facing quality defensive tackles–a huge downgrade from Wiegmann). I’m not naive to believe the Chiefs’ o-line problems will be solved. But I think there’s a lot of reason to believe they’ll be significantly better. We have to stop believing that we will build an o-line with 5 pro bowlers. It’s not going to happen. Niswanger and McIntosh are serviceable enough until we find somebody better (Niswanger having the upside to be a solid starter, I believe). That leaves two open gaps. We bring in 2-3 draft picks, compete them up against Herb Taylor, and 2-3 veteran June 1st cuts, and then you put the best 5 linemen on the field. If none of them pan out in 2008, then you look again in 2009 and suffer no cap consequence to cut any of the chumps, whereas you have to keep guys like Hartwig on your roster to continue to suck for you. By the end of the offseason, I believe the Chiefs will have 7 or 8 players competing for 2-3 spots–I’m cool with that. I don’t know if this approach will work. But I do know that while teams like Oakland and Detroit spent wrecklessly in free agency, Tennessee and Tampa were criticized by the media for doing absolutely nothing and now look… Oakland/Detroit still suck and Tennessee/Tampa are now playoff teams.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:48 pmJon, great points. I’m not sold on our young guys, but agree on the L.J.-Kolby argument. Also remember that L.J. played three of his games against Jacksonville, Minnesota and San Diego, the three teams who are the most stacked at defensive tackle.
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:08 pmA couple points. 1. Adam, you guys are acting as if none of our young guys can step up in any of those open positions. A lot of times all a guy needs is a shot, we have plenty of guys who haven’t gotten a shot. So I don’t agree that there are that many spots to fill. 2. The salary floor is 100 Mil, so this idea that we are somehow saving 30-40 Mil this year by being cheap is wrong. The cap is 116 Mil, so at most we’re saving 16 Mil. After signing Allen and a top 5 Draft pick it will be even less. Also, there is absolutely no correlation between spending and winning in the NFL, the only place that is seen is MLB and that is because of differences of 100 Mil in some cases, but even then the Yankees haven’t won the series in a long time, even they are being much more frugal this year because that strategy hasn’t produced in recent years. 3. If we had acquired two or three of the better free agents that were available this year, which was likely doable for the Chiefs, we still wouldn’t be a guaranteed contender. After adding another year of good solid draftees and fielding a team, we can get those guys next year that can put us over the top. Why spend a ton on guys that won’t get you a superbowl this year no matter what, why not wait till next year, finish refurbishing the stadium and get one or two that really can get you there. 4. Great comments Jon.
March 22nd, 2008 at 6:41 pmI’m getting this thing to 100 comments come hell or high water. I never said anyone is stupid, and its totally my perogative if I want to call conpiracy or King Carl or whatever else. If fans of ArrowHead Addict want the "Jay and Jon" Chiefs homer show…you guys can get together on Skype and talk all you want about how everyone is ovverreacting and paint a hopeful picture for another 10-6 no playoff season. Adam and Zach can post it and we’ll watch the 3 comments from Scott, Tim and George Bush that agree with you and be done with it. When you read my stuff from now on, have your mom pack a grain of salt in your sack lunch.
March 23rd, 2008 at 5:04 pm