AA: We Believe In The Draft…And Math

I'll give this one up after this post for fear that someone will find out where I live and cut my Directtv line.  lol  Adam, I was never really attacking you or the site, Crane I gather you are one of the bloggers, I haven't been around long enough to learn who you all are.  But this is what started getting us into this I think. Crane: {And jay right above me is a perfect example of the mediocre
expectations that the Cheifs organization cultivates year in and year
out. "The people at 1 Arrowhead Drive forgot more about football than
John Clayton" et. al.?  Yeah effing right. I’ll tell you what the Chiefs problem is.  They have had us Midwest "I’ll-go-to-the-game-no-matter-what" fans to treat them to a full
stadium for TOO LONG."}  I fundamentally disagreed with this and it soon became an argument about all of the ins and outs of every aspect of football.  My whole point is the Chiefs know what they are doing and they are following a plan.  Most fans are happy with this plan because they still fill the stadium.  I may be proven to be wrong soon, its all opinion, but I tend to lean toward the experts when it comes to anything where I am not an expert, because noone can be an expert at very many things.  While I feel you all are very knowlegable my opinion is that you don't have the Chiefs trumped.  Just my opinion so it doesn't really mean much.    I feel as if a lot of bloggers write as if Chiefs fans typically agree with their ire toward a team.  As an avid Cardinals and Chiefs fan I disagree.  If that were true stadiums would be empty, people love the product and go to the game, and most of them say they could run the team better, but they are generally satisfied or they wouldn't buy the tickets.  Crane you say you can boycott the game, but if your watching it on TV and paying to go to the parking lot to tailgate, you're still supporting the chiefs.  They get money for ratings, they get NFL shared media revenues and they certainly get a lot for parking.  So thats still supporting the team, if you hate what they are doing so much, you have to cancel all that and at the very least watch another team.  If your not willing to do that then you are still fundamentally satisfied.  That said I guess I'm saying if CP was such an f---up, the chiefs would be a lot more like the Royals, and if I'm not mistaken they were 13-3 a few years back.    CP isn't in the ranks of the great GM's, very few are, but he's fielded some good teams, he is at the end of his line, but his legacy pretty much depends on winning a SuperBowl, I believe he knows that so there isn't much reason to clamor for his head.  He's following the plan, and it will work or he'll be gone in a year.  Either way, my expectations will never be through the roof because there are 32 teams trying to do the exact same thing.  The odds are never good, but there's always hope for worst to first in the NFL.  One last note, giving the fans what they want is a noble goal, but what the fans want, all of them, is a winning team.  Running the team as a democracy is a joke, any business run as a democracy would fail.  Thats why no businesses on earth are democracies.  Democracy is never an efficient economic strategy.  The team has to hire experts to get them to a winning season, not take the fans advice.  There is way too much inside info involved that no matter how much we scour the internet we'll never know.  If you have read this whole thing, I apologize, brevity is obviously not my strength. 

Redbeard, you've jumped on two things I've said since I've been posting here, and the only way I can describe your reaction is violent agreement.  I'm not sure if you're not actually reading what I wrote, but I said "The Hunts seem to be good football people.  If they only wanted to make
money, I doubt they would have ever come to KC, and they wouldn’t be
here now." So thank you very much, what you posted about them having more attendance in Texas supports my claim perfectly.  I guess I'm not really sure exactly what you want me to "get straight."

as for the ring it is on CARL... even when the CHIEFS ORG. new that lamar was gonna pass away they didnt go after the top notch recievers in the league who would have put the GREAT off. we saw over the top... can you imagine having Moss, or T.O. in a CHIEFS uniform... and at the time T.O. was a very possable aquesition for us, and that offence that year may have taken us to the big game... no oe questions Carls ability to save what ever money he can for the hunt family and place a team on the field which can possibly make the playoffs... that in a nutshell is CARLS job...as for doing the job of fielding a great team and then letting the coach ,.... coach... he does as we have seen in his fourth try at his five year plan...lol give his coaches some players... never has he handed his  coaches... a great team ... and he never will... as for a trade with Dallas, Dallas is not willing to trade both first rounders this year... they will however trade one first, and second rounder this year and add next years first. They really will trade and move up in this years draft...but it wont be for both of there first rounders this year... and trust me if Carl passes on this trade he should be fired... even if we have to wait another year... to amass two first rounders... it would mean we recieved a first ,two seconds, and two thirds this year... and then allows us two first rounders next year... this is a no brainer.

Jay the Chiefs came to KC, when they were drawing more than the cowboys in attendance... in TEXAS... get it straight... Lamar loved this area for exactly what we (fans)have been doing for the last twenty years...they not only drew biggewr crowds there, but they sold more season tickets every year that the Chiefs were there...

Dont get me wrong, Lamar Hunt was a great man, and I thank him for bringing the Chiefs to KC.  I however disagree with you about Clark.  He has already threatened Carl about losing his job, so if he ends up firing Carl well then he is twice the man his father was to me.

Thanks, CSF69. The main thing is that we spend a lot of time doing it. That, but also that sometimes the Chiefs can make just about anybody look smart. Football-wise King Carl is a hack, but lets cross our fingers and hope that Bill and Herm nail the draft, because FA looks like it could already be over for the most part.

well using a line from the CROW ..... (i feel like a little worm on a big fu#%ing hook )... some of you gus really know your shit !  and man im glad i found this site ! A A rocks !! dont stop what you all do !! all the stats you all put up here is amazing ! as for carl hes a complete idiot!!! and clark will never be half the man his dad was ...EVER.....

And I have no problem with other Chiefs fans being happy, but I still think you are in the minority if you are satisfied with the Chiefs. Most of us have sat here for our whole lives and never seen the Chiefs go to the Super Bowl. For me that's almost 30 years, but the drought is almost 40. King Carl hasn't been able to get it done over an almost 20-year tenure and we get lambasted for being impatient? I think being upset with the Chiefs and the way they handle things like free agency is totally valid at this point.

Maybe I can't do it better, or Crane can't do it better, or anyone who has ever visited or commented here...we're not even really saying that. We're just saying that we know someone can do it better than the Chiefs have in the past. I'm encouraged by Herm and Bill, I just wish management/ownership would let them spend a little more in F.A.

By the way, I'll also stick up for a lot of a Chiefs and other NFL fans. I've met and read a lot of NFL stat junkies that blow my mind with their knowledge. There are some bloggers, fans and writers out there that I wonder why don't have gigs with pro teams. Seriously, they probably could. And, yes, I honestly do think there are some of us out here that could do a better job running the Lions than Matt Millen.  Just wanted to site my experience because they validity of the site was somewhat challenged, but at the same time I want to say that we respect all the opinions given here. Chiefs fans know their shit.

I'm not really wasting too much energy or all up in arms, just using my podium to fire warning shots really. I want the Chiefs to know that at least this site won't tolerate doing just whatever the bare minimum is to fill the seats. I'm patient with Herm and think he should be here for a while. It's Clark and the King that are on notice for being the Cheaps, which I think they are. Clark isn't his dad, and I'm still not sold on him really wanting to win. And I'm sold on most of the owners in the NFL wanting to win.I'm telling you, with teams like the Chiefs the more vocal the fans and media get about their dissatisfaction, the less kumbiya they can be.

i think they are al qaeda at 1 arrowhead drive ! there out to destroy my beloved chiefs !!!  lol,,,, just kidding !! im sure they have things well in hand !!! well maybee !!! shit i dont know anymore !! i do know one thing if they would just sighn one lineman id sure rest a little better !

Adam, I never said there weren't talented FA's left, in fact I made the case earlier that there were.  I'm also not saying that everyone here is a dunce when it comes to football.  All I'm saying is the chiefs as a whole have a leg up on all of you, no matter your experience.   You say you are boycotting the stadium because you want a better product, there's nothing wrong with that.  This entire debate is more about the fact that there are way more of us that are happy with the path the team has taken and are patient enough to see if it works.  Herm's been here 2 years, and 1 of those was wasted trying to win with DV's leftovers.  So give the man his three years and enjoy the fact that we're actually doing it the right way this time.  I think its too early to be up in arms over not signing FA's early.  Here's a list of things to get upset about.  Letting JA go without getting a whole lot in return.  Not signing anyone else by the end of FA.  Having a crappy draft.  So far none of these things have happened, so speculating that they will and getting all worked up over it, seems like a huge waste of energy.  The Hunts seem to be good football people.  If they only wanted to make money, I doubt they would have ever come to KC, and they wouldn't be here now. 

crane and adam well put ! i read that d.j. hacketts agent called the titans and left message for a visit and the titans never called back ....lol... too funny !!! also im hearing that the hawks and hackett are trying to work out a deal for one year ! maybee we should be trying to land this guy before its too late ! just a thought ! as for people having all these stats and film clips of players , well thats great for you all . i dont and im just a diehard fan ! i may look dumb and all but i watched every single game that i could last year and take mental notes of players ! so you all feel free to correct me if you like but dont degrade me please ..lol.. !  as for the qb thing , i think we should try and get a decent line for B C and see what he has before we jump to another q b ! like adam said next year there will be a few there . thats just what i think anyway !!!

by the way Adam, just because we go on strike...doesn't mean we can't go tailgate...watch the game on DirecTV and get blitzed.  Then we can promote our cause and only pay $20 dollars to park and be humiliated.

ALlow me to get the last word here...You said:"As for your credentials, very impressive, but I still haven’t heard you
say that you spend eight hours a day studying film like "paid" scouts
and coaches do."That's because I never said that...nor do I do that.  "Do you really believe you have a better eye for talent
than Gun, Herm, Chan, and all of their assistants, scouts, staff, etc? " Nope, never said that either.  If you go back and look, I told you regular fans have more tools at their disposal than ever before to judge and evaluate talent.  We can see with Tivo who's missing assignments.  We can watch espn 24/7, we can watch the combine drills...the NFL has its own Network now...if anything, we might know too much!My point is...OUR OPINIONS AS REGULAR FANS ARE VALID DUE TO THE SHEER AMOUNT OF MEDIA COVERAGE AT OUR DISPOSAL.  If you want to watch and evaluate tape of Max Starks and Reeves etc. all day you could.   This is America after all, democracy at work!  Our voice should matter!  We are the ones who pay to see the game. Wouldn't it be nice if an organization did what the fans wanted, at least on some level?  Wouldn't the fans then have a sense of ownership...and the responsibility of being a loser could be shared by all instead of firing a coach every other year to cover the mistakes???Also, Anderson was a restricted free agent...big deal.  MY BAD DOG.  What about Marion Barber, Fargas, Jamal Lewis and Julius Jones, Lance Briggs, Bruschi,  OK Barber is RFA too..but the rest aren't...my point wasn't to list every free agent...but to say they didn't all *suck*.  If u took the top guy at each position, it would be a formidable team.  Here's a short list so you don't mistakenly accuse someone of not being a FA or RFA again. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2ffa I got ya fullback right here fellasRock CartwrightRBUFA5-82186Redskins

D-Hall is no FA, but  he is available. I'd rather draft a QB than go after Anderson, too. Plus, either Anderson or Quinn will be available next year, i.e. Drew Brees. Also, I love this line from Crane:

The only thing the Chiefs think they know that we don’t is despite the
shitty product they put on the field, us beer swilling idiots will
still plop in those 80 dollar seats to drink $7 dollar beers and talk
about how stupid the Chiefs management is for not signing someone.

So true. I've been one of those idiots for a while, but I'm not doing it this year. This quote explains why Zach and I will boycott the 'Head unless some signings are made. Boomer Grigsby's departure will also hurt attendance and help our cause. Sad, but true.

I hear both Crane and Jay here, but I wanted to say to Jay that I'm not just some jabroni off the street. Neither is Zach (he's a football coach for Pete's sake!!). I played some college football. I've covered the sport professionally as a journalist, as well as fantasy football. Actually, as a long-time Direct TV/NFL Ticket subscriber and fantasy guru I'd say that I've seen other teams' players play more than the Chiefs have, at least until they really dig into the tape prior to FA. Maybe not the scouts, but then the brass, yeah, there isn't that much of a difference. Are they better equipped? Sure. Do we know what we are talking about here at A.A.? Absolutely.

You don't have to listen to us, but at least realize that we're not football neophytes here. We don't have all the info, but we know this: A.) The Chiefs are historically penny pinchers; and B.) There are some good players still out there (D.J. Hackett, for one...what about Jake Scott, too?). I don't think the reason the Chiefs aren't spending money is because of talent. I think it's because they run the Chiefs like they were a chain of restaurants or something. At Arrowhead, not being in the red is priority numero uno, while the Red winning is secondary. That's what we are pissed about. If Clark just wants to make money, then he should sell the Chiefs and buy some other business. Period.

Derek Anderson and D. Hall, were never FA's so they're out.  Moss is likely a bust anywhere but N.E. so not a true option.  Faneca is good enough the steelers let him leave which implies he's on his way down probably still has a few years left, but my gut says the Jets will pay for signing him. Starks hasn't proven much yet so I don't see him as a buoy for the free agent market.  So the three legit signing possibilities as free agents are a CB a Center and a Kicker.   Two of whom the chiefs wanted to meet with but didn't get the chance. Even if I give you Faneca, I still say its a really weak FA group.   As for your credentials, very impressive, but I still haven't heard you say that you spend eight hours a day studying film like "paid" scouts and coaches do.  Do you really believe you have a better eye for talent than Gun, Herm, Chan, and all of their assistants, scouts, staff, etc?  You must feel exceptionally good being that smart.  Anyway, we've talked about this enough.  The bottom line seems to be that I think a fan should be whatever they want to be, if that means screaming about how much chiefs management sucks, thats fine, but don't tell me that in order to be a true or good fan, I should be doing it with you.  

Well, you certainly said your piece. I would have to disagree that sports reporters and agents etc don't have any creedence for evaluating talent.  They definitely have some, I mean, I'd take Jason Whitlock's opinion over my grandmother's about wether or not Croyle is a big time QB... but I think you are referring to Scouts.  Anyone can be a scout, its just that being a PAID scout is a different ballgame. I worked for Brian Dawkins and current Panthers QB Matt Moore's agent.  I was on the phone with Ozzie Newsome for the Ravens with the agent, etc. I worked with former players, and an NBA agent.  Agents aren't supposed to evaluate talent.  Scouts and GMs and coaches are.  The agent is there to maximize the value of the client and facilitate the contract process.I wouldn't conisder this the worst free agent market ever.  Lets see we had Derek Anderson, Ashanti (sic) Sameuel, Faneca, Moss, Starks, Faine, D. Hall, J. Brown, that's pretty much working on a pro bowl team so I'm not sure what you qualify as the worst ever.  Agents do study tape of college players, (pros usually are all set with agents...or getting better agents with more connections by the time they have been in the league.)  You're right there's a lot of agents out there, but there's a lot of insurance agents out there too.  A lot of times, someone will register as an agent...because they have a relationship with a player...that relationship is usually desolved or soiled in some form and the player goes with someone else...and they never think of it again.  The NFLPA charges you each year to maintain your agent status and there's not more active agents than players.  You can't just go be an agent because u get a wild hair.  You have to have a bachelors and a masters degree or be a former player.  Then you have to take a test, and pay the fee.  The test is no joke.  A lot of people don't pass it the first time, its essentially a mini-bar exam.The only thing the Chiefs think they know that we don't is despite the shitty product they put on the field, us beer swilling idiots will still plop in those 80 dollar seats to drink $7 dollar beers and talk about how stupid the Chiefs management is for not signing someone.

I don't know much about your experience, but working for an agent, or being a sports reporter still doesn't give you any creedence as an eye for football talent  (see Jason Whitlock.) Granted you've been involved more than the regular fan, you still aren't studying tape, watching guys tecnique's, whether they pick up all their assignments.  I don't know what agent you were working for but last I checked its not too hard to become an agent, last I heard there are more registered agents than there are football players to represent.  All that said you probably know more about football than I do, but you still don't know more than chiefs personel.   I don't trust the folks on this site who clamor for a, b, or c.  They simply don't have access to all the info.  Should the chiefs sign anyone, maybe, but this is widely considered one of the worst FA markets ever, so maybe they know a few things we don't. 

Jay-I have worked in the Sports Industry, for an NFL agent...before that I did a project for the Royals and before that I was a Sports reporter and columnist for a few newspapers.Regular fans have more options than ever to scout players and evaluate talent.  Scouts Inc, NFL Network... ad nauseum, allows the public to see what was once a mysterious thing called the NFL combine...we have computers crunching every kind of stat imaginable, and the college football coverage is incredible.  This isn't rocket science.  We want the biggest baddest horses pulling our wagon and the Chiefs simply let us down year after year.  You might call 10-6 winning...but the reality in today's NFL is you gotta win 10+ games to be a winner and go anywhere in the playoffs.  This means not going with "Old Reliable" at QB...and hoping your LB's can get enough pressure to change the game.  This means not focusing all your attention on one side of the ball or the other (i.e.2003 Chiefs "O" and 1991 Chiefs "D") The Chiefs don't spend $$$ on MONEY positions like QB WR RB... I can't believe Carl paid Larry!  I think he did so to save his job, because they damn sure didn't want to do it...but they had to.  The Chiefs care more about being mediocre and having sellouts than they actually do winning.  That is totally evident.  This isn't how you run a championship football team, its how you run a business.  We've had someone at the helm for too long, and while he is a shrewd business mind, and able to put a product on the field that does generate some buzz and warm fuzzy "aw shucks you can do it guys" it hasn't put any trophies in our case for far, far too long.  I've heard "Fu*%in' chiefs" far too many times in the last few years...and I lived in Oregon for the last three!  I was the only Chiefs fan there!You can go with "I'll go with the Chiefs bc they know what they're doing"  That's fine, but that takes all the power out of your position.  A lot of Japanese people went along with the Generals sneak-attacking Pearl Harbor and look how that worked out.you play to win the game.  face.

G.L. I agree you have to play offense, and Chan Gailey has specialized in playing offense, and playing it well enough to take several teams to the playoffs.  I'll shorten the terms, if they don't make the playoffs in the next two years, I'll buy you a Steak.  I don't make it to K.C. that often but I'll make a trip for that.  Crane, I know I'm in the minority of online fans, but I'm not in the minority of regular fans, not because we don't care or that we've somehow been duped, more because the Chiefs gave us a long streak of winning, followed by some down years, I'm simply not ready to say f--- em and start getting pissed that they don't make every little move that I think they should.  Mostly because I know my limits as a football mind.  I made the point on another post, similar to Steve, that none of us have been asked by any teams to scout for them, and its because we don't know jack about their business.  Pretending that we know that some FA is going to work out based on the tiny bit of info we can find online, is rediculous.  Unless you're in your basement watching game tape of Max Starks and Jaques Reeves every day, you don't have an edge on the Chiefs scouting department.  As I threw out earlier, they are following the same strategy that has worked for Indy, G.B., NYG, S.D., N.E., and Dallas, so until you get hired by a Pro team, I'm going to take the Chiefs knowledge of football operations over yours (as do most fans)  and thank my lucky stars that they don't act like the Skins, Raiders, Falcons, and Dolphins.  Plenty of guys are still left to sign. 

Jay,I am not a Herm "hater".  I would like to have a positive outlook and give the guy a chance.  Anyone deserves that.  However, my own personal  opinion is that YOU HAVE TO PLAY OFFENSE  as well as good defense in order to be competitive late in the season.  Last season, K.C.'s offense was obviously broken, but where were the attempts to adjust?  I don't think that a one dimensional coach has any better chance to make it in the NFL than does a one dimensional player.  I am a diehard Chiefs fan, but I am totally dismayed that the lack of coaching caused one of the worst losing  streaks in Chief's history.  I'll tell you what though, if the chiefs ever make the playoffs again during Herm's tenure I will buy you a steak (or whatever) of your choice. 

I haven't been very vocal except for editing suggestions and snide remarks...but "Steve" aka Carl aka Herm apologist got me fired up a little bit. And jay right above me is  aperfect example of the mediocre expectations that the Cheifs organization cultivates year in and year out. "The people at 1 Arrowhead Drive forgot more about football than John Clayton" et. al.?  Yeah effing right.  I'll tell you what the Chiefs problem is.  They have had us Midwest "I'll-go-to-the-game-no-matter-what" fans to treat them to a full stadium for TOO LONG. The Chiefs also forget that they are the only team between the Vikings and the Cowboys North and South and Denver and St. Louis East and West.  Dude, thats a massive geo, and while the TV numbers don't reflect it, because half these rednecks were watching on antennas... there are a lot of Chiefs fans in the Midwest, and we are all sick of the Chiefs sychophantic garbage and doubletalk.  We want results, yesterday.  We got lucky with Bowe, LJ, & Allen and otherwise our drafts in the last 10 years have sucked balls.  Journeyman QBs, bust DL's, etc have stunk up Arrowhead for a long time.  In 2003 and then 04, we shoulda went all-in like the Browns did this year.  Phil Savage knows that they won't repeat last year without trying to make their team better and the Brownies are ALL IN and I betcha that pays off for them next year.

Adam, I didn't read it that way, but we can agree to disagree, we'll only know when free agency ends.  I will say it was a pretty poor article, all it would have taken was one question. "Herm, are you saying you are completely done in free agency this year?"  I think he would have said no, you say he would have said yes.  Time will tell.   I also agree with steve that we don't know what fans will be ok with.  I don't think the online guy, and the radio call in guy are very representative of the fan base, they are the ones up in arms enough to make the effort, so we get a fairly negatve slant.  I think the rest are more like me, pretty optimistic.  I won't be upset if they don't sign anyone else, because I don't watch the chiefs to see how they are managed, although its fun to do, I watch them because they play football, and even watching them suck this year, I still watched every game and loved it until the minute they lost, and I think thats how most fans are.  They will fill the stadium and love the team.  I know this because I live in St. Louis, and last year and this year, radio host/call-in guy/online guy has slammed the team and screamed boycott and said that they don't care about winning (even though they are typically in the top ten in payroll in a small market,)  but fans still come and fill the stadium because they love baseball and they love the cardinals.   In the end of the off season I can usually quibble with a few moves the chiefs make, but I've never really seen where they could have made themselves a dramatically better team in FA in past years so I'm content to see what they do this year, and hope they win, if not I'll still enjoy the games, and as long as they improve, I'm happy with the job they are doing.  I think a lot of fans expect teams to contend for the superbowl, or world series every year.  I'm more realistic, there are 32 teams that are trying to do the same thing.  Keeping expectations on an even keel, makes life a lot easier when they suck, and a lot cooler when they are winning.  I will be happy if the chiefs improve to 8-8 this year, because its progress from last year.  I can see why they were 4-12 due to old guys and poor drafts so I don't blame them for that.  Its a nice way to live, keeps my blood pressure low.  I realize I'm in the minority on these sites, so slam away, I look forward to the debate. 

Macdawg makes an interesting point about the Chiefs accepting "constructive" criticism. I'm all for that. However, I doubt that I would really be able to see the "constructive" part if someone approached me and assessed my job performance by telling me that I was in the "bottom ten" of my profession and that my decisions were "crap" or "dime a dozen". In fairness, I never said the Chiefs front office was the "top of their field" because Herm and his boys haven't been around enough to judge fairly. I certainly hope you guys get more than two years on the job before people start picking apart your job performance, particularly if you do something as complex as assembling and coaching an NFL franchise. And it very much is "rocket science". Also a quick note to Adam. We have no idea what "most Chiefs fans will not be OK" with. Only a small percentage of fans offer up their opinions on blogs.

Two quick comments:

Cornelius, love the Cleveland comparison. We still have the chance to do that this year if we add a quality offensive lineman and No. 2 WR through FA, and then draft well. I doubt we do it, but I digress.

Jay, it seemed to me like the Chiefs said they were done, or at least definitely OK if they didn't sign anybody else. Most Chiefs fans will not be OK if they don't sign anybody else. I think we all can agree on that.

Jay: Very well said!

Just to add to what I said earlier, scout.com has a list of 214 free agents I know these aren't all of them, but they are the notables, and only 51 have been signed, thats less than 25%.  Also, on scouts list, only 24 teams have signed a notable FA.  The Patriots, Giants, and Steelers have signed one guy each, (NE signed four of their own but that actually supports the chiefs philosophy) whereas San Diego, Indy, Green Bay and Dallas haven't signed anyone other than their own  (These lists don't include guys cut by other teams before free agency.)  I realize the Chiefs have more needs than these teams, but the strategy needs to remain the same.  Sign them cheap when the market drops, don't sign very many, build through the draft.

On another note... Im glad thwe might bring back Casey Wiegman... He's been noted and called an underated Center. And I remember watching a game and the commentator said that Casey gets robbed of a Pro Bowl postion every year... Sure last season wasnt great for the guy... but, hey when youre on the same line as what we had last season, no one is gonna look all that great. .. With THAT said... I like (LT) Max Starks, (LG) Brian Waters, (C) Casey Wiegman, (RG) Damion McIntosh, and (RT) Anthony Alibi (ofcourse this guy would have to compete for that spot. Im just taking a stab at it.) ... That is if we pick up Starks. If not Long (in the draft). If not Otah (in the draft).  

1st of all... csf69, I wouldnt be too worried... If the Chokeland Raiders had RANDY MOSS in their locker room... I DOUBT Javon Walker is gonna make much noise... because either A.) Like ALL their players, they WON'T know how to utilize him. B.) He'll get injured, like every team of season he's been on... And or C.) They wont get him the ball, or something stupid, and he'll become another sideline spectator... So, eh... Whatever. Next, merlinnj, I would have LOVED to sign Lilja as well... but hey, the same as always with the Chiefs, the coin NEVER flips our side... I just want the team to make a couple moves, if we dont get D.Hall, fine... I can live with that... But I think that Bryant Johnson and Max Starks are the 2 guys that can REALLY help our team needs.

they're not their

Adam, if we're talking about the star article, I don't see anything that says their absolutely done from Herm.  Maybe I'm missing something, but all he says in the article is the same thing he's been saying.  Do you really believe that he has thrown up his hands and said there's no more talent out there?  I'm sure we'll sign more FA's before the draft.  Again, Patience. 

holy smoke did anyone see the contract raiders paid walker ? 6 years 55 mil ! al davis needs checked in !!!

Steve,  we understand that the guys at 1 Arrowhead Drive are the pro's, but your mistaken if you think they are anywhere close to the top of their field, Chiefs front office is bottom 10 in the league easy.   Don't utilize the cap, what money they do use they get tied up in the wrong areas, banking on an undersized 3rd round pick QB behind a 4 crap lineman and only 1 good lineman, I don't think its rocket science.Its easy for these guys to ignore the fans & media and go about their agenda and say everyone doesn't know what they are talking about.   Denying constructive criticism is denying improvement.Adams math is correct IMO, I don't think I want to pick up as many free agents as he does but definetely more than a dime a dozen linebacker.

Much better title. Ties much better with your the quote you were referencing. Anyway, like someone said, contenders can come out of nowhere in the NFL. I hate to bring up Cleveland again, but the analogy is so striking. Downfield playmakers, solid backfield, young quarterback. Retooled O-line, boom, 10-6, and would've been in the playoffs without a couple tough games down the stretch. And they didn't even have KC's defense!

I just want a Wr thats all i want....I don't like any of the lineman available and we would pay too much for any of them.... Give me Bryant Johnson or Hackett and i'll be happy, but as of now, this is total bullshit, i am sick and tired of losing....I am sick of tired of making the playoffs and going out in the first, I am a herm supporter but that support is dwindiling and mark my words as long as Carl PEterson is our GM we will never  win in the playoffs just like as long as Al Davis is alive the raiders will be at the bottom of the league....I am out Peace

Jay, FA does last a long time, but Herm basically said they were done today. To me, done is instantaneous. Free agency could be over before it started. If that's so, then we better trade Jared Allen for picks and players and have the greatest draft in history, because we need about eight starters still.

Mushin, I just want to say that the Chiefs actually had some negative attendence signs for the first time in a long  time. Kicking free agency off with a thud didn't exactly energize the base. I'm a patient man, too, but I'm sticking by my guns. They have to sign more FAs. HAVE TO! If not, even the Raiders will blow by us.

Nice Steve, I'm with you on that all the way.  Also, I think everyone is overreacting to the article.  Herm didn't say they wouldn't sign anyone else, he just said if they didn't that would be fine.  I have no doubt that he believes that, but not because there is no one out there they want, its because he knows he can field a team, after the draft players get cut, and given the crap fest we had at O-line this year, I'm sure we can do better, even if we wait till then.  They aren't signing anyone right now because the prices are too high, and desperate teams have made money mistakes that will cost them because they are impatient.  Half the guys that were talked about in all of these posts are still available, and while they didn't get two early targets in Brown, and Faine, they wouldn't have paid them both top money at their positions either  (I did read something that said they were willing to pay Brown top K money, but how does anyone really know that, besides he wanted to play in a dome.)  All in all I think it was a smoke screen and we'll see them sign two or three more young FA, Herm said so in an earlier article, so the plan doesn't change, but the gamesmanship still goes on.  Patience Chiefs fans, Free Agency lasts a long long time. 

What a huge downer g.l.  I think I may be a Herm apologist, not because I think he's the greatest, but I feel the haters out weigh the reasonable on this one.  1. Herm has had two of the best drafts in recent chiefs history, and those guys haven't even gotten to the third season which is when you're supposed to be able to rate how good the players really are.  2. He did alright for himself in N.Y. and has made the playoffs 4 of 6 years, you can't do that if you are a bad coach, I don't care who's built your team.  3.  If you say he won because of the team Vermiel built, then you have to also say he lost last year because of the team Vermiel built.  The aging veterans combined with worthless drafts from the Vermiel Era was going to take a load of work to fix, no matter who came in here, Herm's on a path to fix it.  If you look at Ty Law's comments about being brought in to make a run at a Superbowl over the last two years, you can also see that the plan is just getting started.  Do you honestly believe that if we have a third good draft in a row, we won't have a chance at being a contender next year?  What's the point of being a fan if you can't hold out a little hope that one or two guys will step up and be superstars when given the chance?  As far as the Herm hating, I don't get it, give him his chance, if we have another year of 4-12 then so be it, but for now he's still trying to fix what DV broke. 

Gentlemen, I don't want to be too harsh but I will try to be frank. This or any other franchise is done when it starts making decisions based on what fans, sports columnists, talk show hosts and the Crypt Keeper at ESPN think. For one thing, all those people mentioned don't agree on anything (just look at all the different opinions in all the posts so far). How can the Chiefs do what the "fans" want when the fans don't agree? Carl and friends will sink or swim based on these decisions. On the other hand, Kietzman, Whitlock, Clayton and the like are never held accountable for anything. The best posiiton in life to be in is the critic who never makes an important decision. The folks at 1 Arrowhead Drive have forgotten more about football than all the critics combined know. After all, next week Whitlock and Kietzman will have just as much expertise on basketball, baseball or badminton. Who ordained John Clayton as a football god? He certainly doesn't look like he has much experience playing it.Like it or not, Herm and company have a plan and their careers are based on that judgment. Whether you like to admit it or not, they get paid millions of dollars to run the team because they know how to and none of you nor I have a clue. Get over it -- you and your buddies are not football experts. If you were, you'd be making the big money instead of Herm and Carl.

D Williams is a nice pickup, but LB's are a dime a dozen in this league IMO you can draft & start LB's easier than almost any position and certainly easier than many of the other holes this team has, O line, WR, CB, etc.  So many holes to fill and they add a linebacker and thats it?  I suspect its Gunther saying 'get me linebackers and I'll get you a defense' type of thing going on again.

Adam: You are right in that I am being harsh on Hackett, and I did confuse Hackett with being part of the Seattle WR corp from the 04 that dropped so many passes during the playoff game against the Rams that the Chiefs WR started to feel bad for them. I do like Bryant Johnson at the right price, but I HATE the idea of cap hell. What the fans of teams like Tennessee and Baltimore go through when the GM's open wallet catch up to them scare the living $%^: out of me.  Last year the free agents were much better than this year, and it was a crap shoot then. For ever Adalius Thomas (who signed with the Patriots as much for their winning ways as for the cash) there was a Nate Clemons or Thomas Jones. The funny thing is that Clemons and Jones were established players that are going to hamstring their new teams for years. The guys floating around now aren't established. Some have potential, but so does that overweight girl at the bar when you're on your third shot of tequila. The Chiefs last year signed Boone which nobody talked about, and how did that turn out? They also signed Harris which wasn't a total bust but wasn't a blockbuster either. Fortunatly they didn't overpay. On the other hand they signed Bell pretty quick into free agency a few years ago and it took them years just to cut him because the deal was so crappy. Your blog makes it sound like the Chiefs are idiots because they haven't jumped into the shark infested waters of this FA pool head first. Compare KC to two of the teams that did jump in. Clevland went hog wild. Of course they were a pretty decent team last year, were already thin on draft picks, and signed depth. The Jets (who were the Chiefs in a green uniform) went crazy too. Of course they went after starters and their fans don't know whether to celebrate or start vomitting. I know that in about 3 years we should revisit what the Jets did during free agency this year.  It's March 4th and you have already given up on the season. I'm not optimistic, but come on. By your thinking the Chiefs should just go ahead and forfeit every game of the 08' season cause they haven't signed anyone by halfway through the 4th day of the free agency period.

Adam: I am fine with looking at Robinson. I would think Herm would know if he can fit into our team and help us.  

I am torn on this issue.  We DO need quality players badly and free agency is a great way to do that.  BUT, this has been called the worst free agency class in the last upteen years.  Maybe it's good we sit and see what trades/drafts bring us.  Really I would be happy if we got Demarrio Williams, an OL player, and DeAngelo Hall out of this free agency. 

It is true that the Chiefs should not waste money on mediocre players who don't appreciably help the team and then count against the salary cap as dead weight later on.  However, ten selections in the draft is not enough to fill the roster with decent players.  I think this is just another example of Herm Edwards total incompetence.  Mark my words, the Chiefs will NEVER be a competetive football team as long as Herm Edwards is the coach.  The Chiefs will probably keep Mr. Edwards around for another two to four years until it is inescapably apparent to all that his coaching/philosophy is a total failure.  At that time, new blood will be brought in and will have to try to salvage something from the Edwards legacy.  It would take another two to three years of rebuilding in order to repair the damage caused by Mr. Edwards.  In other words, the Chiefs can't possibly have a competitive team on the field for another four to seven years at the soonest.  We better all enjoy last year's trip to the playoffs with the Vermeil "leftovers" because that is probably the last playoff appearance we will enjoy for quite some time.  Depressing isn't it???????????

The Bengals reportedly may have backed out of their proposed trade for Jets DT Dewayne Robertson due to a bone-on-bone condition in his knee.The Bengals may have balked at giving him a long-term deal because of the knee. Robertson recently also had hand surgery, but that was a non-issue.-----------or not .....lol

First off, I think it's completely unrealistic to believe that you can draft 3 or 4 starting offensive lineman and expect that unit to be worth a damn even halfway through the season. Secondly, if you cut 20 guys, you need 20 guys. Only half of those are coming from the draft. Where are the rest supposed come from? Be signing undrafted walk ons? Other teams waiver discards? I know time there is plenty of time left in free agency for things to happen but what Herm is saying about his approach to free agency is pretty damn depressing. Some might believe it's posturing but not me because everything he said about his approach to free agency before it started has so far been true. I am completely okay with the Chiefs not making it to the Super Bowl next year because I understand the concept of rebuilding - what I am not okay with is Herm failing to do the kinds of things that are necessary to rebuild while trying to claim he is. Given the current course, I am beginning to wonder if this team will be even worse next year. And if that happens, one has to wonder whether Clark Hunt plans to eventually sell/move this franchise?

Merlinnj, that is exactly why we should look at Robertson!

mushin, the way you are going on is to not do nothing and keep what we have ! did you see what happend last year when we did that ? we need more talent on this team and that means spending some money ! as much as i hate to say it maybee we should trade tg , ja and lj and get the picks ! if thats the way were going at it now ! they give all they had on every down for us and they deserve to get a shot on a playoff team imo !