Trading Down: Easier Said Than Done

Btw, does anybody have any pictures of free agent OT's wives/girlfriends they'd care to post?  I figure we can do our part by rating them here first and then forward on the Chiefs personnel dept for further consideration.  That's right, Chiefs fans are still the smartest in all the NFL.

The one thing about free agency that I think works in the Chiefs favor this year is that there are several teams who are facing situations where they may have to franchise one guy and thus let others hit the market.  I think Indy, Pittsburgh, Carolina, and Tennessee will all feel the pinch - there may be others as well.  And that, redbeard et al, is when & how quality players can and should be acquired by teams in need.  The even better news is that this years free agency class looks to be heavy with young (not old) offensive linemen.  These are some of the names (in no particular order or preference) that I'd be perfectly happy to see in a red uni next -Stacy Andrews OG/OT,  Maurice Williams OG/OT, Sean Locklear RT, Jordan Gross RT (likely to be tagged), Max Starks LT, Travelle Wharton LT, Jake Scott OG, Ryan Lilja OG, Jacob Bell OG.  One thing that needs to be pointed out about Max Starks is that there remains a question mark about his health so that needs to be factored in his case.  In any event, we'll know soon enough (Feb 21) which players will and won't be franchised by their current teams.  Once we know that, we can have more fun speculating (/arguing?)  about all this. 

Just found this on an ESPN NFL Draft chat...

 Steve Muench: I think that safety is the weakest position though tight end is worth mentioning and I think that it's a deep offensive tackle class as well.

With the deep OT FA class and this there is no reason to burn a top five pick on Clady if Long isn't there. It would be just crazy to pass on Ryan, Dorsey or Elli, or even McFadden, for him. Just my .02...

First off, King Carl is letting Herm, Bill Kuharich and Ray Farmer handle most of the football personnel stuff, so it could be different.

Second, other may be sold on Clady, but I am not at this point. You have to get a star picking inside the top five, and I'm just not sure he is one.

Next, we could indeed pick fourth, but fifth is most likely for us. The odds are against us, basically. That is why we are listed there.

I agree on Max Starks. He definitely could be the answer. Jordan Gross is also another option.

Again, you cannot reach where we pick. A mistake could set us back five years. I would rather see us trade up and get another first rounder and take a Baker or a Williams than reach on Clady. He's proven himself to Redbeard, but not to me. I don't want a Robert Gallery or a Tony manderich at five -- I want an Orlando Pace.

and the player you speak of was our right tackle... Tait... and yes blame carl for him leaving... good players do switch but if you wish to try and do what seldom works then go ahead... the chiefs need to draft a left tackle not bring another in here... for crying out loud they even brought back turley... that says other than our future center... we have noone to play the o-line.

and as for King Carl he cant negotiate never has...why would this year be any different...

double d...you didnt read what I said I said left tackle... when did you see shields play left tackle...haha and as for starting great left tackles I am correct they dont come from late rounds...it doesnt happen...guards and centers and right tackles but not on the left side.

And it was acrimonious too!

Steven - The Fins also cleaned out the tackle houses on both sides of the line. They could just as easily use their 1st pick on an OT or DT.

redbeard - If signing a lineman or two through free agency puts us in a better position to trade down and acquire more picks, I fail to see how that can be a problem for anyone in favor of rebuilding through the draft. And btw, I believe Starks will be 26 at the start of next season - hardly an "old" lineman, even by NFL standards. As far as later picks go, Will Shields was a 3rd rounder. I'd say he worked out pretty good, wouldn't you? As I recall, the last time we drafted an OT in the 1st round, it led a rather actimonious contract dispute and at the end of his contract, that player left for another team. My point is twofold, 1) good tackles can & do leave for other teams when they hit free agency and 2) I'm not all that sure it's such a great idea to trust King Carl's negotiating "skills" with another 1st round OT pick.

Point being if Ryan is off the board, that moves everyone else back one...Dorsey will be a hot commodity, Chris Long and McFadden.  Every mock has the Chiefs picking 5th, but they still haven't flipped the flippin' coin yet, they could be in the 4th slot.  Jake Long will be there. 

Trent Green was cut by the Dolphins...makes it sound like maybe they are making room for Matt Ryan??????

I'll pass on eli... we have Brodie and he'll be ok when the chiefs draft a left tackle and another guard... enough of all the old linemen... maybe that works for other teams but it hasnt here...

ok then I will determin...Clady is a top five pick.

All I'm saying is that you never, ever reach when you have a top five pick and this many holes. Right now, it is still undetermined if Clady is a reach or not. Dorsey, Ellis and Long are not reaches, though, I have the utmost confidence in that. Also, if you are going to whiff on a top five pick, why not whiff on the draft's best QB? Hell, Matt Ryan could be the next Big Ben or Eli Manning. Why not? I liked what I saw in '07.

besides , they are saying around the draft boards that the Left Tackles
going round one this year, may be a many as five or six... that would
leave us with maybe the fifth or sixth best left tackle out there...
that wont help us regain a awesome o-line... and for that matter how
many of you wanted to take a second round wideout last year instead of
Bowe... now ask yourselves why... its the same reason we dont wish to
take a second round left tackle this year

we can get linemen thru the free agent market, but besides roaf come on guys, name another we grabbed from someone...really name them... YOU CANT. it just doesnt happen much... and name the starting great offensive left tackles who came from rounds after the first round. I bet you cant name more than five... so I guess that those who want a second round O-tackle, think we can get the sixth great left tackle to come in 100 years, out of this years draft class... this class isnt that good.

Dave, if I knew the answer to your question, I would not be sitting in some law office in Riverside, California, but sitting in a front office NFL job....lol...hahaha.  I only wish I knew who would be the game changers.  There is no guarantee with draft picks, just rampant speculation, and that it all that I am doing.  In my opinion, we need way more help on the O-line than anywhere else.  Let's use or best pick to pick the best O-line available.

and why trade down...yes we need a tackle first or bust people... and stop with the roaf... that will not ever happen again unless we let Bowe go sleep with another tackles wife. and even then the tackle needs to be willing to come here... ROAF was a fluke people... stop using him as an example...(*for those whom dont yet, for some reason understand, We got lucky with a already hall of fame tackle landing in our laps, because, our one time long ago wideout, named Joe Horn, who we stupidly let go, went to New Orleans and sleept with Roafs wife... and he wanted out of Saints country) so unless we wish to let go of bowe, so he can sleep with another tacjkles wife... stop kidding yourselves it just wont happen... HOF lineman dont get let go by the team that has them... look at the contracts that mr penny pinching Carl peterson gladly gave those two players just to keep them here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   that alone should tell you what it is worth, other teams are the same way, they wont let a HOF type lineman go either.

As for trading down , last year was the year for it, and we missed our chance when Jacksonville did call and we said no... Denver is and has been getting the best of that trade so far...And as for Ellis I think he could be gone before us... just depends on the combine and the teams above us...

Dave ... #1 Demario Pressley ....DT out of Texas Christian, is a game changer and people will see that as combine time comes around...DT out of Texas Christian...until combine time most people will consider him a late first to second rounder... #2 Kenny Phillips safety out of Miami... is the biggest stud safety to come around for some time now... who is being overlooked for some reason this year.to me he is an atwatter type player.

Like an old friend of mine always said: You can wish in one hand, and you know what in the other. Not saying it won't happen, but hoping for this to happen will most likely only leave us dissappointed. I am pushing for us to draft the best player available, almost regardless of position. That is the kind of long-term mindset that wins Lombardi trophies.

Drafting quarterbacks also wins Super Bowls, so I think we need to chil out on this OT-or-bust mentatilty. Who knows, we could potentially pressure the front office into making another mistake -- i.e. Law and Surtain. Both those moves partially happened due to pressure from fans and the media.

Hey Jeremy and Adam.......let me ask you guys a question - how many difference makers do you think there are in the first round this year - I am talking people that change the game from game one like Adrian Peterson, Dwayne Bowe, and Patrick willis........I really don't care what position we take with our top 5 pick - what I care about more than anything is having a game changer.......I know that Dorsey, McFaden and both Longs are considered changers - but I also believe that Ellis, Phillips, DeSean Jackson, and maybe Kelly.

Adam - I agree completely on your OT or bust point for the reason you state and for a couple of other reasons.

If our scouts conclude that Clady warrants a top 5 pick then we get him, otherwise if we can't trade down then we go for the BPA. In this case, I would have to think that would be Ellis who, as it turns out, will also fit nicely into the "team need" category.

That said, I still maintain that the best thing that could done before the draft is to acquire a skilled, but young, veteran OT (a la Max Starks or maybe even Travelle Wharton?) through free agency. If the Chiefs can swing that, then it allows for more and better options as to what they are able to do with their 1st pick (and I dare say takes the pressure off of it as well). So many people seem deadset on thinking that the only way the OL can be rebuilt is to do it from scratch (i.e. the draft). To that kind of thinking I say in what year did we draft Willie Roaf?

As for trading down, and ignoring the Dallas scenario, I do actually see Buffalo and Chicago as two likely trading partners because both have extra 3rd round picks to bargain with, both have significant needs that could be met by moving into the number 4 or 5 slot, and both seem to be more in need of just 3 or 4 quality picks as opposed to needing a lot of picks (like the Chiefs do).

It may not, as you say, be simple to trade down, but at the same time, it is not completely out of the realm of possibility either. Let's hope we get lucky, eh?

Good Point!  All eggs in one basket is bad.  Very bad, but, we are talking about our team's greatest need (O-line), and we are certain to land one of the top 2 tackles in the draft in our position.  We could not run or pass protect at all last year.  I really think the Chief's Brass are willing to develop Croyle and will get him a young talented O-lineman to speed the process.  It just makes sense.  Unless we get a free agent tackle (Who?), I still say the pick is OT.  You are more likly to bust with a QB, CB, WR, DE, than an OT or an OG.  The Chiefs are going to play it safe.  We will see.  I can't wait for the draft!

I think this OT or bust mentality is also a bad one, and the short-term mentality that will get us back here rather than to the Super Bowl. Unless Clady has a sensational combine -- or even Baker or Chris Williams -- then we need to pick the best available player. That will likely be either Matt Ryan or Sedrick Ellis.

And I still don't see us trading down. If you trade down and bust it makes you look cheap, a la Junior Siaivi.

It is difficult to trade down, no doubt.  However, a lot of things could happen between now and the draft in April.  I hope some prospect causes a lot of stir, commotion, and desire, so that a team wants to take our spot at #4/5.  Over the past two years, I do not think that the Chiefs are concerned with what other teams are doing or thinking.  When it comes time to pick, they will pick the best rated player on thier Board (a la Hali/McBride [both reaches]).  I think the pick will be Clady at OT if there are no trading partners.  While some may think he is a reach, he is exactly the help we need to reach for.  If we trade down, then the pick would be Sam Baker.  I would be shocked if OT was not our first pick, with or without a trade.  I agree that Jake Long will be "Long" gone.  I have a gut feeling that Dolphins pick Jake Long with the Number one pick.  Nice safe pick to build a tough football team in Parcell's image.