Go Long Young Man

[...] the early Mormon Church as depicted in Fawn Brodie??s ???No Man Knows My History. ...www.nytimes.comGo Long Young ManGo Long Young Man Dick Vermeil, love him or hate him, had a philosophy when he first arrived on the [...]

and it wasnt vermiel... it was our O_LINE...if vermiel was better he would have drafted another wideout first round when he had the chance... with the off. they ran we needed the third option on offense...

xxxlp... what I said was we are still stuck with a free agent linebacker in bell... and the giants have mitchel our lost free agent and as you said he didnt win the superbowl for them... *AND THATS THE POINT* everyone sees how a certan someone here or there comes along and helps a team... well the truth is that most free agents dont help the new team!!!

Thought I might add that its way more likely an offensive player thats drafted in the 1st round turns out a bust when compared to defense.  That being said, we all remember Ryan Sims.. Ive thought from the beginning that Ellis was better than Dorsey and would be really happy with him at 4th or 5th

An extremely interesting thread.

First off, Marion the Barbarian is the best nickname in the NFL. Hands down. It fits him, too.

Second, I'm all for mostly of the FAs listed here. BUT... Berrian will be retained and we don't need a LB. Donnie and Napoleon are fine for now. If one struggles this year, we replenish through the draft next year, or even FA.

As for trading down, things will be more clear after the combine. Right now, that possibility is murky -- we don't know if it will even be possible. I'm going to look at trading down later in the week.

For anyone who is interested, here is a link to an article in nflmocks.com about the pros and cons of trading down in the draft.  The author believes that Miami should stay put but that the Chiefs should trade their first pick to Dallas in exchange for both of the Cowboys 1st round picks plus their 2nd round pick.  I have to say -  getting 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks would be a tough deal to turn down.  Read it at http://nflmocks.com/2008/02/05/does-trading-down-work/ 

Donovan - Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I'm pretty sure we're saying the exact the same thing.  I just think the Faneca thing might not go over as well as some people think in terms of both perception and reality.  On the other hand, what I've been preaching is that we first need to try and sign younger veteran guys like Lilja, Starks, Briggs, etc to put in immediately as starters, then follow that with a strong draft, and develop those first and second year guys behind the 2 or 3 free agents we hopefully acquire.  I'm not as sold on Trufant as others seem to be but I guess if we can get him at the right price then we should do so.  Even so, I also think we need to see what kind of player Brackenridge develops into over the next year or two.  Corner in the NFL is one of the toughest positions to learn and it typically takes a few years to truly master it -not saying that Brackenridge is the next Champ Baily but I do think he possesses enough upside to be solid in that role - assuming of course he can stay healthy, gets more playing time and is coachable.   You're absolutely right though, perrennially good teams (and good teamwork) are an ongoing mixture youth and experience, athleticism and finesse, talent and intelligence. 

Double D you can't just get young guys. You also need veterans and experience on the line. If you put Jake Long, Herb Taylor, and Niswanger on the line you have three players with zero to under 5 games played... All three never starting a NFL game. The Chiefs have a lot of room to make some moves this offseason. Sign guys like Trufant/Samuel, Briggs, Lilja, and Berrian ... You need to find the perfect marriage between youth and experience. Something Vermeil did not do very well. 

Good Point Double D about Faneca, I never really looked at it that way. 

You know, come to think of it, it might not be that bad of a thing to draft good DE.  You can work him into the rotation to keep Allen & Hali fresh, you get a back-pocket insurance policy when dealing with Allen, and perhaps most importantly, it should serve as a good way to start working Turk into the LT slot more often to shore up the interior.   As for the Faneca suggestion, I think it looks okay on paper in terms of quality of play he would bring but from a PR standpoint, I can see it blowing up really bad - especially if Faneca hits the wall sooner than expected.   One thing's for sure if the Chiefs sign Faneca, the first thing out every local sports columnist's / anchor's mouth will be "FRAUD!" because it smacks of hypocrisy in the light of Herm & co's purported "youth movement."  The last thing I want to hear is blowhards like Jack Harry going on and on about it.  Guys like Starks, Lilja, Briggs, Samuel yes. Faneca not so much. 

Well said Donovan.  I guess it will come down to things, 1. Whether or not the Chiefs can pass on whoever is setting there with their first pick.  If the guy they were targetting is gone, whether it be Long or Dorsey or whoever, then they might try to bail out of their pick and drop back a little.  2.  It depends on how much emphasis they continue to stress on "acquiring mor draft picks".  We keep hearing that phrase coming from One Arrowhead Drive.  It the Chiefs are dead set on getting as many picks as possible, then they might already be talking to potential suitors to trade with.  And of course there is the wild card we all keep forgetting.  This is the first draft the Chiefs will go through, ever, with Lamar Hunt not the owner.  How much of a voice is Clark going to impose?  We'll have to wait and see. 

Our Defense did a decent job last year, although they did tamper off at the end of the season. I do believe we were in the top 15 defenses at the end of the season, and somewhere in the top 8 before the bye week. Our offense was absolutely horrendous. There is some real opportunities for gain at O-Line during this offseason. Ryan Lilja is a Kansas City native, Alan Faneca was extremely upset is the Steelers higher-ups, among other options. There is a lot of depth at the O-Line in the draft. Not to mention we have a vast amount of youth already in the system. Niswanger and Taylor played well for young guys. DMac looked good but is not mobile enough to play LT. If you trade down with someone like Dallas, you get the opportunity of prospects like Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib (who might bust), Felix Jones, Ryan Clady... Although we could trade down, some might forget that we already have quite an abundance of draft picks that could be used to move up in the 2-3 rounds. We have picks coming from our deals of Sims, Bennett, Tynes, and Green. We have 10-12 draft picks this year. It wouldn't hurt to pick a premium DT if Jake Long is gone by the time 4-5.

Yeah, I can definitely see them taking Chris Long if he is there.  I think this years draft will see a lot of movement in the top 5 draft picks with teams trying to move up to have a shot at Chris Long, Darren McFadden and possibly Sedrick Ellis.  I personally hope the Faiders don't get Chris because 1.  I like him, I think he is going to be a good pro and 2.  I will have to hate him out of principle.  Regardless of where he goes, he will be one of those players I will have to keep track of to see how he is doing.

I haven't forgotten about McBride...we don't need another DE.  But DT is another story...it would be nice to pair some new big fatty with Tank Tyler to stuff the run, and I think Ellis could be that guy if Jake Long is gone by the time we pick...no way would we pick Chris Long, and besides, if Al Davis doesn't take McFadden (either because he is gone, or they pass on him) don't you think they will take Howie Long's pass-rushing son?  Don't they have to take him, kinda like if your dad is in a fraternity, they have to let you in?  :)

That's true Roger, the DLine won the game for the Giants in the Super Bowl, but look at the Pat's Oline in all other games they played.  It seemed like Brady had 10 seconds sometimes to find a receiver in those games.  It goes without saying, Tom Brady isn't where he is today without a great offensive line.  I've heard a lot of rumors about Dallas wanting McFadden as well, although, the whole reasoning behind it is a litle fishy.  Owner Jerry Jones went to Arkansas, so he wants DMac just because he went to Arkansas?  Doesn't sound right.  Marion Barber("Marion the Barbarian"-I love that nickname, almost as much as "The Nigerian Nightmare") looks like a pretty solid #1 running back to me.  I thik it will be real interesting to see what happens when the Chiefs pick and Jake Long is on the board and Darren McFaddens is still there as well.  I imagine the Chiefs phone will be ringing off the hook with GM's wanting to move up and nab McFadden.  IF your the Chiefs, what do you do?  Secure more picks, or take the #1 rated LT, a huge need for your team? Tough choice.

Speaking of the D-line, is everyone suddenly forgetting about Turk McBride? At the end of last season he was playing well, and was rotated more than Tank Tyler (Who personally I hoped would be a star, as big as he is. Yowza) He's a 2nd rounder from last year, is a natural D-End, and we play him at D-Tackle most of the time. Note: This is exactly what the Giants do with Tuck, rotate in the backup DE as a DT to get added quick pressure up the middle, when your big fellas just aren't creating enough push. He played alright the last 3-4 games, let's give the kid a chance before we talk about drafting a DE first. Please for the love of God just say no. And on a sidenote: Redbeard, what was so wrong with Dick Vermiel? He made the Chiefs exciting to watch, and we were close (if not in) playoff contention every year. Our offense was just too good and it kept our D on the field, by scoring quick points.  And you can't tell me Kawika Mitchell was a key part of the Giant's SB-win. Don't get me wrong, I'm the first guy to stand up for him, and wouldn't mind havin him back as our OLB and moving Donnie to the inside, but K-Mitch wasn't a KEY part of their run. He wasn't even the biggest key to success in the linebacking corps.

This take is all about drafting Jake Long, and then the final paragraph does more to endorse the idea of drafting for the defensive line than anything. The Giants won because of the pressure they could get on Brady. Imagine if we had a stud defensive tackle to go along with Allen and Hali. Or imagine having Chris Long and being able to use him like the Giants use Justin Tuck.Plus, with the O-line depth in this year's draft, we could still nab a really solid linemen in the second round.

I hear you dd...but it does matter what the o-line is...lol you have got to be kidding... what dickless vermin did here was because of the o-line... geeeeeze... no one can tell me green and his wideouts were anygood...that would be a joke... and people still say play calling was the problem...it wasnt... it was the calling of certain plays that was mandated by the horrendace play of the o-line... people get mixed up on the blame there all the time. and we dont need long... Claddy is a far superior lineman. and a far better run blocker... j. long is as over rated as was last years ohio st, and michigan teams both were. and for that matter as over rated as was the KU football team... and then theres the big mac left tackle scandle...again we went after a second rate tackle...yes we scored with roaf... but that wont happen again...any o-lineman worth a damn will be re-signed by there own team. free agents are free agents for a reason... and we still have a guy named bell that we are stuck with... while our middle linebacker is wearing a superbowl ring.  enough of the backwards thinking. PLEASE.

I agree - if we were to win the coin toss so we were drafting ahead of Atlanta - and DMac fell to us Dallas would really want to trade with us getting ahead of the Falcons and Jets. It is possible that Miami would be to high for Dallas to trade up with making us the next perfect trade partner. I am not sure that I would want to pass up on a player like J. Long - but two first round picks and other additional picks would make me think hard about it.

nice post double d... but in the second round we draft someone like Chris williams as a future right or Left tackle and then draft Adam Speiker from Mu as a center put Niswanger at RG and that is one hell of a line or will be in a year or two

I keep hearing a lot of chatter about Dallas wanting to trade up into the top 5 because they want to get Run DMC.  If that happens, then I would think that the Chiefs chances of landing JL will improve as well.  Even so, I still say the smartest thing the Chiefs could do is sign Max Starks  and then try to swap places with Buffalo (in exchange for Buffalo's 2nd round pick or else both of Buffalo's 3rd round picks) which should give us a shot at DeSean Jackson - the deep threat wideout we need and an impact player in  the return game.  We then use our 3 or 4 picks from the 2nd and 3rd rounds to start filling in our other needs - OG, CB, LB, DT, TE, . . . I'm not down on Jake Long, it's just that he's still an unproven commodity as an NFL player and no matter how good we think he is, chances are they he will still need some development time (like 2-3 years perobably) before he's performing at his full potential.  Given that, I'd rather have a young veteran guy we can plug in right away and then draft the kind of weapon that will give us the ability to SCORE MORE POINTS!  It doesn't matter how good your O Line is, if you're not putting up enough points, you won't make it to the playoffs.

I agree. If Long is there, he is the guy. Clady would have to really impress for us to nab him there. If we don't go OT, then DT is the pick. Either Glenn Dorsey or Segrick Ellis. That is, unless Matt Ryan blows everybody away at the combine with his physical attributes, interviews and Wonderlic.

Remember we could pick ahead of Atlanta...and I think they will take a QB or, and there is a real chance of this, McFadden if he falls to them.  Miami is closer to fielding a respectable defense than offense, so I would look for them to take Dorsey or Chris Long or trade down.  St. Louis may grab Long, but then where does Pace fit in?  it will be interesting, that is for sure.

I completly agree with this - the problem is Miami, St. Louis, Atlanta, and Oakland all know this and need a tackle as well. We will be so LUCKY if he falls to us and we will take all of 10 seconds to make that pick.